: Are these limitations reasonable, 2 years after affair?

[Dave1963]

Sorry for a long first post, but I would really appreciate others' views on whether my situation is normal/expected?

 

History: Married 25+ years, one child who has left home. W has never been that self-confident with regard to her looks. Our relationship deteriorated badly over last 6 years, which was a major factor in a brief affair I had 2 years ago. She found out immediately and we have since attempted to rebuild the relationship. I stupidly kept in touch with the OW for 3 months, by text msg only, more as a supportive friend than anything else. W had major illness a few years ago, which she sees could potentially shorten her life and therefore wants to live it her way.

 

Initially, after the discovery of there affair, there were frequent arguments, which I expected and worked through as best I could.

 

But over the last 2 years, she has anger outburst which occur most days, usually about something I have done/not done, said or not said. The subsequent discussions of which can last anything from 30 mins to 3 hours. She has also spat in my face a few times over the last few months, during arguments, and will hit or pinch me if I touch her to comfort her when she is angry. If I criticise her explosions, she tells me it is normal and that I should 'man up' and realise shouting and loosing of temper is an expected part of normal life.

 

Over the last year, however, she has become increasingly demanding in what she is happy for me to do/not do. She is highly critical of what other females (sluts as she calls them) wear and is controlling our life in order to minimises any exposure I, or we have, to any another females. So much so that she won't... (by "won't" I mean that she has made it so clear she doesn't want me to participate in... and even if I did, I know it would not be worth the resultant arguments)

 

- go out to pubs or restaurant together, in case of other 'sluttily' dressed women or waitresses

- go for a walk anywhere near a beach, lake, park as it will be full of other show-offs

- drive anywhere on a Friday or Saturday evening, due to possibly seeing other females wearing skimpy clothing

- let me wash the car in view of the road, in case a jogger comes past 'showing off her breasts'...

 

She will also make all efforts to avoid public places, such as airports, railway stations in case there is someone in a queue in front wearing tight shorts, a cropped top or skin-tight jeans. She no longer lets me have a drink with my male golf partners after a game (which she was comfortable with until last year) and wants me to come home immediately to be with her. She refuses to watch TV or go to the cinema (as it is either sexist rubbish or full of stereotypical perfect females). Behind my back she has thrown away several CDs and deleted my music of certain female artists that she doesn't approve of. She will get in a rage if I want to use the Internet at the weekend (e.g. to buy or research something), because it is full of sexist advertising, or inappropriate pictures of women in servile rolls and will spoil our time together.

 

She has made it clear that never wants to go to a city or have a drink in a bar again, because cities are for 'young people on the pull'. Furthermore, she has deleted old emails from female business customers and has does not want me to attend a business meeting again - because offices are full of people dressed up to flirt with each other. This situation is my fault for having the affair, which has made her uncomfortable with me being in the presence of other women. She even had a hissy fit and threw things at me when I bought some fruit for us in a farm-shop, because 'those places are full of rich families with their teenage show-offs'! Hence, I feel I can never go to a shop again on my own, without her prior knowledge, unless I am prepared to accept an hour or more of shouting.

 

If I tell her than any of the above is ridiculous or too extreme a behaviour she will tell me that me f****** the OW was extreme, licking her c*** was extreme, hence I have no right to tell my wife what is extreme or not. She says that if I love her and want to make the marriage work, I will have to accept these limitations or f*** off.

 

I am now so confused as to whether these are valid points or not. Yes I did wrong, yes I want to move forward, I love her so much and want the marriage to work. I realise she is very angry with what I did 2 years ago and she has lost trust in me. But I don't know if should just accept these limits for the rest of my life or stand up to them, which she has made clear will result in divorce.

[Mr Carson]

Your going to need professional help if your going to have any chance. Her rules are unrealistic and imposable, even after what you did to her.

[d0nnivain]

You betrayed her trust so certain limits are understandable. Unfortunately your wife wants you to cut off all possible interactions with half the human population which is unrealistic. What's next, you can't watch TV because of the scantily clad women?

 

 

Your wife needs counseling to help her regain trust but also to build her own self esteem. Do encourage her to work with you to grow your marriage back to a flourishing thing. If she won't you may not be able to stay.

[Dave1963]

... What's next, you can't watch TV because of the scantily clad women? .

The TV licence/subscription was cancelled last year.

[Ninjainpajamas]

It's "normal", her normal and whatever any other woman does is "normal" to her...there is no proper behavior or reasonable expectation in this...because you broke the "rules" and cheated, she's going to have no mercy on you in this situation.

 

Look, she let you stay in the marriage for two reasons...

- Kick your @rse, and punish you for doing what you did and hurting her

- To give you a chance to make it up to her, which takes a very loooong time

 

You're basically going to go through with this because she thinks you deserve it, well she's not really thinking more than feeling, and that's how most women operate.

 

She despises what you did, it's completely sent her off the grid and she's going full psycho mode for it. She's emotionally distraught and raging, she's determined to make you suffer and inflict as much damage to you as possible without killing you...she will drag you through the coals and make you suffer and be miserable.

 

She's taking all her feelings, hurt, all out on you. She's here to let you know what you did was wrong and she never wants to give you another opportunity to do it again, because for her in her book you can't be trusted and you're the one who brought this on yourself.

 

For you, it's a memory in the past you just want to get over and move on with life and start over...but it doesn't work like that, she's not done with you, she's not over it and she's really really pissed at you still...this is going to take a lot longer than a few years to get over, it'll be a very slow process and it will never be the same, but you've got to earn it and go through in order to gain back her trust ever so slowly.

 

You're in for a rough ride and unfortunately it's easy for her either, she can't trust you, and she knows what she's doing is probably crazy and over the top. But she can't stop herself at the same time, every time she sees another woman or scantly dressed "whore" those memories just fly right back in to her head and that reminds her of the other woman...it's like reliving a painful memory that comes in with a lot of rage, i mean you're lucky she's even showing you emotion because if she hates you this much than she probably loves you too.

 

I don't know what you're going to do, but it was your decision to stay. And if you leave she's going to be so bitter and resentful, she's going to hate you even more, so don't be surprised if things don't go up in flame in trying to do that as well...I'm sure this woman could do a whole lot of bad to you if she let herself, but in the end it comes down to what kind of person she is and how far she is willing to go...if you threaten to leave you might see a different person with a lot of emotional shifts and a rollercoaster...which is all "normal".

 

Your best bet is to get some kind of therapy, she needs to talk about these emotions and get through it..and I doubt she can talk to you about it because she's just going to get upset and start to rage, and you'll get the wrath. If she has someone else to talk to, then that person can mediate and give some kind of structure and guidance to keep things on track. So therefore you should go with her and work through this, as much as you hate it she's going to want you there and she's going to want you to bare the burden because this is not just her weight.

 

But she's going to slander your name and do all kinds of crazy crap to you, but if you really want to work through it...you've just got to take it. Get a cozy chair and relax, you're going to be in hell for a while...and make sure you always show emotion and care, if you shut her out she'll get even more pissed off, you have to keep walking into the fire even though you don't like being burned...that's how it works.

[d0nnivain]

All the more reason your wife's behavior is over the top.

 

 

I can understand NC with the OW, no going to places you took her. I can even understand a BS pressing the WS to change jobs if it was a work place affair. I might demand access to the cell phone & e-mail passwords & check internet history but your wife has gone 'round the bend.

 

 

Not every woman on the planet is a potential affair partner for you. Until she understands that you don't have many choices.

[autumnnight]

You betrayed her trust so certain limits are understandable. Unfortunately your wife wants you to cut off all possible interactions with half the human population which is unrealistic. What's next, you can't watch TV because of the scantily clad women?

 

 

Your wife needs counseling to help her regain trust but also to build her own self esteem. Do encourage her to work with you to grow your marriage back to a flourishing thing. If she won't you may not be able to stay.

 

It can take 2-5 years to recover from an affair, and many many spouses have a very hard time feeling safe after such a betrayal.

 

That said, there is no way to forego all human contact in 2015....and honestly, the "eliminate all human contact" way of dealing with an affair is just an outward band-aid. Unless a person's inward character changes, all a BS is doing is being a perpetual policeman.

 

Besides checking off outward boxes, what kind of inward work/remorse have you done/displayed?

[Dave1963]

Hours of discussions, usually daily, triggered by some event, but ultimately resulting in me expressing my regret for what happened. The problem is that I _can_ understand her concerns, but she won't believe my words.

[Dave1963]

All the more reason your wife's behavior is over the top.....

That is what I am trying to understand. Is the spitting, shouting, slamming of doors really normal life? Is it true that cities are for 'young people on the pull'? Is it true that females in offices these days dress seductively because they like the male attention?

[d0nnivain]

That is what I am trying to understand. Is the spitting, shouting, slamming of doors really normal life? Is it true that cities are for 'young people on the pull'? Is it true that females in offices these days dress seductively because they like the male attention?

 

 

The spitting may be a bit much. There are people "on the pull" everywhere It's human nature. I suppose some women dress seductively at work for the attention but most probably just look nice for themselves.

 

 

Everything is not about sex & most people can exercise self restraint. Because you cheated, she no longer believes your words that you are one of them. As time passes if you remain faithful she may work through it.

 

 

But some of her requirements are over the top imo.

[SoleMate]

No, this is absolutely not normal, healthy, or appropriate. You both need counseling - joint and individual - and you need to set out some boundaries for your wife. She can't enforce her demands with violence (including spitting), that's completely unacceptable.

 

Yes I did wrong, yes I want to move forward, I love her so much and want the marriage to work.

Then insist on counseling. If she wants to hold the threat of divorce card over your head, she can. I recommend you get The Feeling Good Handbook by David Burns. It has instructions for making difficult conversations easier, using thought and feeling empathy. I also recommend both of you get complete physicals, just in case there are undetected hormone imbalances.

 

If she won't stop the hitting, pinching and spitting, then you may want to consider physical separation to protect yourself until she changes her thinking on this. Good luck!

[berniev]

I personally would never put up with this kind of behavior. Affair is never a one person's problem even the other party is a saint. People need to understand that we have other choices in life. There is no reason to treat your partner this way. What's the purpose? To push your partner away?

 

I would walk. If you can't talk to me in a civilized way, I would walk away.

[understand50]

Hours of discussions, usually daily, triggered by some event, but ultimately resulting in me expressing my regret for what happened. The problem is that I _can_ understand her concerns, but she won't believe my words.

 

Have you gone to IC, are you two in MC? I think this would help.

 

Your wife has to somehow adopt the idea, that you can be angry, but you cannot be angry 24/7, it is not fair to you, and her if she is just angry at you all the time. You need to tell her, that you picked her, you want to re commit to her, but that it is a two way street. She needs to accept that you have changed. IC and MC should help with this.

 

I think your wife's illness, " W had major illness a few years ago, which she sees could potentially shorten her life and therefore wants to live it her way", you did not tell us what it was. I am sure it is a factor in the whole situation.

 

MY only advise, from a guy that was really angry, and still am at his wife, We set aside time when we both worked at having fun and would not bring up anything that would ruin the "mood". Of course, both have to buy in to this for it to work. This allowed us to be a couple, and reconnect.

 

If you can get her to MC, you need to let her know, that you love her, you want to make this work, but you are not going to live in hell, and divorce is heading towards your marriage if she cannot find away to live with you. You do not want this, but will not be degraded as a man or human being. Offer to discuss any part of the affair, but is has to be in a manner, that is helpful. You are in the wrong because of the affair, but she can not punish you for the rest of your life. She needs to see this. Keep in mind that will not happen all at once, just ask for some improvement going forward.

 

This is a tough one, I wish you luck, and I hope your wife finds peace of mind to accept the past and move towards a better future.

[autumnnight]

Hours of discussions, usually daily, triggered by some event, but ultimately resulting in me expressing my regret for what happened. The problem is that I _can_ understand her concerns, but she won't believe my words.

 

Yeah, this is not healthy, and THIS is what is absolutely wrong with the "whatever penance I decide forever" mentality of recovery. It isn't recovery.

[RJays7]

It is very normal to expect anger after finding out about an affair, but physical and verbal abuse in not acceptable. You both seem to want to stay together and work things out which is wonderful, but individual and marriage counseling is essential so that you both have a safe place to talk. They will give you tools to cope and help you start to grow together again to have a thriving marriage instead of one that is just going through the motions. I truly hope you are both able to work things out and have a stronger marriage in the end. Blessings!

 

RJays7

[sandylee1]

Her level of anger is possibly understandable, but her restrictions are ridiculous.

 

As much as you want to move forward, this is not the way to do it.

 

Firstly she needs IC and after a few sessions MC.

 

You need to talk to her about what you will and won't put up with. If she can't deal with it , then you both have to accept that the marriage is over.

 

The affair has clearly turned her into someone I'm sure she'd rather not be.

 

I always say there are consequences following an affair, but I also believe in being realistic. You can't live like this.

[sixtoerings]

I'm in a relationship with a partner who cheated and we're trying to build trust again, which is hard, and I definitely give him hell sometimes (which he deserves). that said, NO what your wife is doing is far from normal, despite how badly you messed up. She needs to agree to get help (and you, too to address or infidelity) or you should leave.

[dreamingoftigers]

Hours of discussions, usually daily, triggered by some event, but ultimately resulting in me expressing my regret for what happened. The problem is that I _can_ understand her concerns, but she won't believe my words.

 

That's because for 25 years she thought she coulld .trust your words.

Then you sh*t on that.

Yes. This made every other woman on the planet a threat to her.

She's been traumatized.

 

I get that completely. I went through the same thing (husband is a sexual addict).

 

Even being at the mall and looking at magazine covers could trigger me into feeling unattractive, old, worn-out and insignificant.

Yes her behaviours can be "controlling and unreasonable" in fact, I am sure that they would constitute abuse.

 

But if you listen past that, you will clearly see just how broken and threatened sage feels and how much she can't trust you.

 

She believes that she's replaceable to you INSTANTLY, the second you see a jogger run by. The second a TV show comes on. The second you step into a market where there's a sixteen year old.

 

You wife feels unbeautiful, insufferable and very low because you traded her in for someone else's vagina. And she probably wonders just how many times you did it that she didn't even know about. How many "opportunities" are you strolling for when she isn't around to babysit you?

 

She has been traumatized to the point where a big part of her believes that if she leaves you alone to go to the store, you'll probably get your dick stuck in someone.

 

To you this probably sounds "extreme" because it was "just blah blah blah" and only "bkah blah blah blah times" and it's not like "blah blah blah blah" and it will never happen again because "reasons."

 

You aren't going to get anywhere at this point trying to reading with the behaviour. Not one iota. She sees that you are trying to dupe her, again, to turn her back so you can step out in her again.

 

Her first response to that will not be to turn her back but to hate you more.

Hate you for trying to get to her turn her back again instead of truly offering her the reassurance and remorse she needs. Letting her know that she's attractive to you.

 

Don't be offended by this but I find adulterers often treat their wives like a Mom and/or bank. then they wonder why their spouse feels so rejected and threatened.

 

if you can toss away 25 years like a dog, why wouldn't you do it again?

[dreamingoftigers]

You aren't going to get anywhere but divorced arguing with your wife that she's being "unreasonable."

 

if she's blowing up daily, I can honestly bet that you are not actually comforting her as much as trying to placate her so that she "stops."

 

Or trying to wait this out until it "blows over" which it won't because you aren't addressing how you traumatized her.

 

Your OP shows a lot of disconnect from her and a focus on your own discomfort.

[minimariah]

she is straight up abusing you.

 

was she like this before the A...?

did she treat you like this before, were there any signs of her abusive behavior in that time before the affair had happened...?

 

because no way she had turned into a "monster" & an emotionally unstable abuser over night and just because you had an affair.

 

emotionally mature folks can handle an affair & betrayal in an emotionally mature way. everything else is when folks real character comes up.

[dreamingoftigers]

By the way,

 

There was LOTS that ny husband could have done and was given the opportunity to do to build/save our bond. He chose to placate, lie and whine as well as to avoid conflict or accept any real responsibility past blah blahing to me. So I stopped feeling love for him.

It was my mind and heart's way of preserving itself.

 

I can tell that your wife actually still loves you.

In fact the thought of you side-lining her again obviously really hurts her.

 

I realized I didn't love my husband anymore when one night I tried to get ahold of him, and couldn't and thought "what if I found him with another woman?"

 

They realized instead of the stabbing pain and tears I used to feel that I actually felt relieved. That it would mean that I would feel absolutely, unequivocally absolved from having to do anything further regarding our marriage which had caused me so much grief. A marriage I invested so dearly in. The deepest bond I ever had with another human being that became a cheap joke to toss away like toilet paper.

 

So maybe before nailing down you wife on being too tough, maybe start addressing TO HER WITHOUT HER ASKING your ridiculous behaviour. Don't wait until she triggered bad angry as Heck. Wake up in the morning and realize this is another day that she gets to go through Hell because of your choices and try to think of something that would help her feel like a special partner to you, instead of a placeholder until the next person with a vagina walks by.

[Davey L]

I guess she's entitled to demand what she wants, but then again you are entitled to not put up with it and leave. Like she said - you can accept it or f--- off.

 

However if you choose the f--- off option you should perhaps tell her that it has come to that point, tell her the conditions you will accept and those you won't and see if some compromise can be reached. I'm not hopeful though if you are already in a physical abuse situation.

[dreamingoftigers]

she is straight up abusing you.

 

was she like this before the A...?

did she treat you like this before, were there any signs of her abusive behavior in that time before the affair had happened...?

 

because no way she had turned into a "monster" & an emotionally unstable abuser over night and just because you had an affair.

 

emotionally mature folks can handle an affair & betrayal in an emotionally mature way. everything else is when folks real character comes up.

 

nay. the vast majority of people aren't expecting an affair or have any clue "howto deal with one" to them it's like making a "UFO emergency escape plan."

 

"Why would I make one of those? Aliens aren't real. And my spouse would never cheat. We. have a happy marriage."

 

When the shock of finding out your spouse is a cheating alien can completely change your whole worldview and even your place in the universe.

 

It really feels like that.

And since you have no idea of what the alien can do next, but you've already spent 20+ years with them, it can drive you pretty bonkers. Questioning everything.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I know moving past an affair is hard, really hard and you as a WS really have no concept of that pain. But at two years if she still has those types of thoughts going on I think it means she wants to be in that low place because it gives her power in the relationship. A good IC can help her get past those thoughts IF she wants to. If you have done everything possible to assist in her healing then some of those things are way out of line. In my situation I was done with that thinking about 4 or 5 months past dday.

 

It sounds like she has a lot of unresolved anger and issues with the affair. A BS at some point has to accept their WS is a terrible person and did a terrible thing to them but cannot let their WS actions takeover their life and happiness. It's a process of deciding what you want from your WS, if you want your WS, what you want from life and then learn to live the life you want POST affair knowing all the things about your WS. You learn to deal with the flashbacks and memories and learn to trust again. Or choose divorce if you can't get there. It seems to me she has done none of those things and I think at this point MC or IC would be the best option to help her get there.

[Got it]

I think if people reversed the genders you would have very different advice from some that is being given.

 

If she is physically touching you then it is physical abuse. THERE IS NO EXCUSE for that. Full Stop Anyone telling you that this is "normal", "expected", or any such hooey because you had an affair is selling you a false bill of goods. In fact they are supporting and condoning the abuse.

 

You both need therapy. What you did was wrong. But that does not give her carte blanche to do whatever evil thing crosses her mind because you "deserve it". If she is not comfortable, safe, or nourished in the marriage then she should leave. Just like you.

 

Really think about things but get therapy. Maybe you can get her to go and maybe you guys can come back around. She is very anger and obviously feeling very out of control. She needs to work on those but that is her baby to rock.