: Are these limitations reasonable, 2 years after affair?

[Dave1963]

If you had to pick the thing or things in her rules that are most damaging to your mental health and ability to engage with life and enjoy it, what would they be? ...

Travel in general. She has gone right off that completely. Being able to go to a town without an hour or two's discussion about who I may or may not have noticed walking down the road, or what my hairdresser was wearing. The control over how I respond (usually by email) to any female customers (which is rare anyway).

 

She mentioned counselling but was against that for 2 reasons: 1) she doesn't believe they could guarantee confidentiality and 2) she is highly educated and clever and doesn't want to listen to someone of 'lesser intelligence' when she can (and has done) read loads of self-help books herself. She has threatened suicide on many occasions but always backtracks and says she wouldn't do it for the sake of our dau.

[Mr. Lucky]

As others have pointed out, her conduct is unreasonable. But:

 

Our relationship deteriorated badly over last 6 years, which was a major factor in a brief affair I had 2 years ago. She found out immediately and we have since attempted to rebuild the relationship. I stupidly kept in touch with the OW for 3 months, by text msg only, more as a supportive friend than anything else.

 

There's not much in your rationalization of the affair and conduct in the aftermath that makes you seem remorseful. Could be a factor in her admittedly bizarre behavior - is she just waiting for the other shoe to drop?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Keenly]

Her behavior is only going to push him away.

[autumnnight]

She mentioned counselling but was against that for 2 reasons: 1) she doesn't believe they could guarantee confidentiality and 2) she is highly educated and clever and doesn't want to listen to someone of 'lesser intelligence' when she can (and has done) read loads of self-help books herself. She has threatened suicide on many occasions but always backtracks and says she wouldn't do it for the sake of our dau.

 

THIS is a problem, especially the last bit. I'm sorry, if suicide is selfish for a WS it is also selfish for a BS.

[sandylee1]

Travel in general. She has gone right off that completely. Being able to go to a town without an hour or two's discussion about who I may or may not have noticed walking down the road, or what my hairdresser was wearing. The control over how I respond (usually by email) to any female customers (which is rare anyway).

 

She mentioned counselling but was against that for 2 reasons: 1) she doesn't believe they could guarantee confidentiality and 2) she is highly educated and clever and doesn't want to listen to someone of 'lesser intelligence' when she can (and has done) read loads of self-help books herself. She has threatened suicide on many occasions but always backtracks and says she wouldn't do it for the sake of our dau.

 

It's not about the counsellor being more intelligent than her, the counsellor is trained and has to abide by certain professional standards.

 

Maybe you didn't deal with the affair properly at the time and realise that NC is a MUST. How is she to feel safe while you maintained contact.

 

She's turned into something else, but realistically , you can't live like this.

 

Try and discuss the things you have most difficulty with and think of better workable ways to manage those situations.

 

Some BSs request selfies , with a clock in the background.

Gps tracking

Regular calls and texts to reassure

 

The thing you have to decide, is can you live like this.

 

You are justified to say you can't, file for divorce and move on. Your wife will have to get over it. Everyone is different and clearly the trauma of infidelity is more than she can handle.

 

Honestly , even if my brothers were going through this, I'd say to see what you can work with or be done with the knowledge that he caused the marriage to end.

 

At least when your divorced , she won't be stressing about who's walking down the road and what they're wearing .

[81West]

Travel in general. She has gone right off that completely. Being able to go to a town without an hour or two's discussion about who I may or may not have noticed walking down the road, or what my hairdresser was wearing. The control over how I respond (usually by email) to any female customers (which is rare anyway).

 

She mentioned counselling but was against that for 2 reasons: 1) she doesn't believe they could guarantee confidentiality and 2) she is highly educated and clever and doesn't want to listen to someone of 'lesser intelligence' when she can (and has done) read loads of self-help books herself. She has threatened suicide on many occasions but always backtracks and says she wouldn't do it for the sake of our dau.

 

Thanks for the further information. Have you had any kind of conversation with yourself where you've figured out whether you're willing to leave if these behaviours and expectations don't change? Or is your preference to remain in the marriage and work for improvement, hoping for progress but accepting that things may never significantly evolve from here. If you had to choose living like this forever or starting over alone, do you know which choice you would make?

[oldshirt]

If you were a woman and she was a man, people would be telling you to fee in the middle of the night and take up emergency residence in a battered woman's shelter d to take out a restraining order and fast track the divorce.

 

This is clearly abusive, manipulative and controlling behavior regardless if he has cheated in the past or not. Sorting in someone's face and striking them are actual crimes of assault.

 

This behavior is unacceptable and should never be tolerated or excused by anyone regardless if there was any adultry in the background or not.

 

The OP is in his right to leave and file for divorce and move on without looking back as far as I am concerned.

 

If he wants to remain married for whatever reason, he would be in his right to draw a line in the sand and insist on appropriate behavior from her and have both IC and MC be requirements for remaining in the home and remaining married.

 

Would Those posters who are suggesting that he should be more kind, supportive towards her and should appease her more, also suggest to a battered wife that she should be nicer and more compliant to her wife-beater husband??????

[oldshirt]

elaine567: Yes, I agree with all your points... but how do we move forward?

Dau is grown up and left home.

 

She doesn't want a divorce or even separation as it would be damaging on our dau.

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to be mean or put you down, but that is one of the most rediculous things I've ever read on here.

 

Your daughter is an adult out on her own. How on earth would she be "damaged" by this??????

 

She might be a little upset when she has to figure out how to balance who she is going to have Christmas dinner with this year, but other than that how is this going to bring any actual harm to an adult offspring???

 

My question is not why hasn't she divorced but why haven't you divorced her after you found out about the plane crash remark???

 

Why are you writing to strangers on an internet forum when you should be in your divorce attorneys office signing all the papers?

 

You my friend have Stockholm Syndrome. Look it up if you are not familiar with it. It is a condition long term hostages and kidnap victims get when they start to sympathize with their captors.

 

You are a battered wife that makes excuses for her tormentor and continues to live with the abuse because you feel that you deserve the punishment and that if you take any action for your own well being and survival that it will make your tormentor mad.

 

You do need need to seek domestic violence assistance and counseling because you are a very abused spouse that has had your spirit broken and you are no longer able to advocate for yourself or take care of yourself. You are no longer able to perceive reality and can only see the twisted, warped and evil reality that is being forced upon you by your abuser.

[81West]

If you were a woman and she was a man, people would be telling you to fee in the middle of the night and take up emergency residence in a battered woman's shelter d to take out a restraining order and fast track the divorce.

 

This is clearly abusive, manipulative and controlling behavior regardless if he has cheated in the past or not. Sorting in someone's face and striking them are actual crimes of assault.

 

This behavior is unacceptable and should never be tolerated or excused by anyone regardless if there was any adultry in the background or not.

 

The OP is in his right to leave and file for divorce and move on without looking back as far as I am concerned.

 

If he wants to remain married for whatever reason, he would be in his right to draw a line in the sand and insist on appropriate behavior from her and have both IC and MC be requirements for remaining in the home and remaining married.

 

Would Those posters who are suggesting that he should be more kind, supportive towards her and should appease her more, also suggest to a battered wife that she should be nicer and more compliant to her wife-beater husband??????

 

Like. Just wanted to like it twice.

[MJJean]

Yes, you cheated. Yes, you traumatized your wife. Yes, she has a right to her feelings. Yes, you should be transparent and supportive.

 

That said, your wife seems to have mental health issues from before the affair that have been exacerbated by the affair. She has become (more) abusive and she is refusing to seek help.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see the situation changing for the better unless she seeks IC and MC and commits to really working on her. If she won't do that, if she won't also make an effort, then you should seriously consider leaving.

 

She may have a disease that could shorten her lifespan, but death is the spectre that haunts us all. Each of us is mortal and none of us know when we will die. For all you know, your wife could outlive you! The way she expects you to live is not living and your life is also finite.

[Ninjainpajamas]

If you were a woman and she was a man, people would be telling you to fee in the middle of the night and take up emergency residence in a battered woman's shelter d to take out a restraining order and fast track the divorce.

 

This is clearly abusive, manipulative and controlling behavior regardless if he has cheated in the past or not. Sorting in someone's face and striking them are actual crimes of assault.

 

This behavior is unacceptable and should never be tolerated or excused by anyone regardless if there was any adultry in the background or not.

 

The OP is in his right to leave and file for divorce and move on without looking back as far as I am concerned.

 

If he wants to remain married for whatever reason, he would be in his right to draw a line in the sand and insist on appropriate behavior from her and have both IC and MC be requirements for remaining in the home and remaining married.

 

Would Those posters who are suggesting that he should be more kind, supportive towards her and should appease her more, also suggest to a battered wife that she should be nicer and more compliant to her wife-beater husband??????

 

Yeah...but that goes without saying, we already know as men is a double-standard but we're not going to really raise hell over that and we're not going to see any feminist rallying for that "equality" any time soon, women are allowed a certain level of craziness and erratic emotional behavior and that's just the way it is. A man could never act out this way without being called abusive, controlling and having the woman's safety being questioned at every turn...especially spitting in her face, my god the headlines that would make.

 

However, that's really not the point here if he's trying to save his marriage...the fact is he's got the circumstances at hand to deal with. It doesn't give her the right to act this way, but as a cheater he's going to be burned on the stake no matter what she does...I know this from personal experience.

 

We also don't know her side of the story and this guys faults, everything we are hearing is a critique about her and her behavior...she's the one being thrown under the bus here, other than us knowing that he cheated, we don't know what other habits, traits or qualities about this guy that would rattle opinion and perspective of the situation.

 

At any rate, if she's got serious issues...then he's got serious issues for being with the woman for 25 years and choosing an affair to resolve his grievances...let's cut both ways here, you don't just be this super healthy person with this super nut and last for that length of time, both people have to got to have issues/problems in that kind of dynamic or it would have never lasted.

 

He needs to be realistic about the consequences of his actions but also she needs to be reasonable about her treatment of him, and that needs to be resolved in some way, through counseling likely at this point...this is really an EMERGENCY STATE, and he just seems to have been sitting on it for 2 years like this waiting for it to blow over.

 

Both people are at fault here and the way relationships work is, both people need to take responsibility for their actions and behaviors and they need to be able to separate their own personal issues from the relationship issues...but they both could use some insight and personal reflection, not just for the sake of the marriage but for the sake of themselves...too much pride taking place here and both people just not looking out for one another. Pointing fingers leads nowhere.

[dreamingoftigers]

elaine567: Yes, I agree with all your points... but how do we move forward?

 

Mr Carson: Yes, I am 52. Dau is grown up and left home.

 

autumnnight: Thank you for your many posts. She flips between a) wanting our 'stupid' marriage to end and to free her to do what she wants and b) to being loving and feeling there has been progress. She doesn't want a divorce or even separation as it would be damaging on our dau. But she says that doing things 'her way' is mandatory if we are to stay together.

 

It seems the A and her illness has brought out an 'extreme' feminism in her, which I don't disagree with in principle, but it is not helping us progress with day-to-day life.

 

I am sorry that you both are in this situation.

 

It seems like there is so much suffering here.

 

She has had this illness, already had these insecurities, a short fuse and a hard time coping.... then the affair.

 

I can see that you really have no idea what to do now.

 

Often people that live with people with really short fuses and shall we say "strong temperments" have a hard time talking to their partners (rightly or wrongly). I just find that often "strong temperment" partners tend to line up with those that have trouble understanding their own feelings etc.

 

Both people have trouble meeting their own needs and the intimate needs of their partner.

 

She is expecting you to be able to connect to how you feel and understand how she feels. Because she is able to see her stress and upset etc. so she thinks it's obvious.

 

You are hoping that she will express things with less emotional impact, more the way that you do it. Or that she will let things calm and blow over. Like you do. And that seems obvious to you.

 

Both won't happen until someone reaches across the aisle.

 

I am willing to bet that you seem very chill and laid back until she engages you repeatedly.

 

And she engages you repeatedly because your chill and laid back nature translates into uncaring or unaffected to her.

 

The affair probably really shocked her. For years you would have seemed disengaged or aloof to her, and then she finds out that you've betrayed her.

She probably had no idea you were even having issues. And you probably felt like you couldn't tell her either, so you took an escape from reality when you could. In the form of your affair.

 

But the affair came at a high cost and you didn't want to lose your wife.

 

Meanwhile she has shown you more and more how affected she is.

 

This looks so much like PTSD.

 

I have one question about the "she hits and pinches me when I try to comfort her."

 

Does she tell you that she doesn't want to be touched? And you try to touch her anyway? Or do you just feel bad for her and try to reach out and then she slaps you away?

 

I think that since you are the one reaching out for help that you can break the cycle. It will be hard, but it seems like you don't wish to leave and want the behaviours to stop. And even to reconnect with her.

 

Maybe I am wrong. But that's what it seems like.

 

I know she has said some pretty awful things to you.

I am not advocating accepting that as a life and relationship standard.

I also get the impression that you have deep hurts over the things she has said to you.

I also get the impression that there is more context to this and that simply labelling it as abusive doesn't help you as much as it would help others. It simply makes you feel worse. Like "Not only is my partner really not happy with me, but now I am being abused on top of everything else."

 

Pretty depressing. I mean, you can take the stance that way if you wish, and you would not be faulted in doing so. I think that you are looking for a way to work through this though. And I know that many people believe that abuse and adultery cannot be worked through, and many times they cannot be. But I think that you want to try first and that you are not in serious physical danger (your wife seems more reactive). I don't get the sense that you feel threatened. More like depressed and hurt by all of this. Degraded.

 

Degrading someone is not right and I am not suggesting that you tolerate it. I am just saying that it does not seem that you are in fear for your life. And you may wish to leave to preserve yourself from any further attacks on your spirit. But I think that you may wish instead to set solid boundaries.

[dreamingoftigers]

He needs counseling because she is behaving unreasonably and irrationally?

 

Actually, as a victim of abuse or an abuser, I would suggest he get some counseling.

 

If he wishes to dissolve the relationship, he may very well need the support.

 

If he wishes to continue with it, he will definitely need the support in setting boundaries and advocating for himself as well as trying to reconnect with his wife if possible.

 

Saying he would benefit from counseling doesn't suggest he is "crazy" or "at fault" but that he is in a situation where most people would lose objectivity, and people get very stuck in those situations all of the time.

[dreamingoftigers]

THIS is a problem, especially the last bit. I'm sorry, if suicide is selfish for a WS it is also selfish for a BS.

 

Suicide is NOT an act of selfishness.

 

In fact, doesn't that seem rather irrational.

 

The utter destruction of the self being "selfish."

 

Suicide and the associated threats most often point to heavy distress on the individual, whether the individual causes it themselves or not.

 

Suicide and the associated threats show being overwhelmed and unable to cope with the pain. To the point where ending everything is viewed as a more viable option that continuing to suffer and believing that one is merely a burden to all of those around them.

[dreamingoftigers]

If you were a woman and she was a man, people would be telling you to fee in the middle of the night and take up emergency residence in a battered woman's shelter d to take out a restraining order and fast track the divorce.

 

This is clearly abusive, manipulative and controlling behavior regardless if he has cheated in the past or not. Sorting in someone's face and striking them are actual crimes of assault.

 

This behavior is unacceptable and should never be tolerated or excused by anyone regardless if there was any adultry in the background or not.

 

The OP is in his right to leave and file for divorce and move on without looking back as far as I am concerned.

 

If he wants to remain married for whatever reason, he would be in his right to draw a line in the sand and insist on appropriate behavior from her and have both IC and MC be requirements for remaining in the home and remaining married.

 

Would Those posters who are suggesting that he should be more kind, supportive towards her and should appease her more, also suggest to a battered wife that she should be nicer and more compliant to her wife-beater husband??????

 

I personally think that it would benefit him most to be very clear of what he will and won't tolerate and ask her to give him the same courtesy.

 

Whatever can't be instantly decided can be negotiated. And if she refuses to negotiate, he should 180 immediately.

 

It's pretty clear that neither one of them are taking care of their personal emotional health and that is a recipe for disaster even without all of the added stressors.

 

He should work on being trustworthy and look into ways to show remorse for the affairs and be more insistant on her attractiveness to him, even if she is highly-resistant at first. Because CLEARLY this is the biggest thing that eats at her. We can all rationalize it any way that we want. But it will change nothing. She is very clearly starving for that validation.

 

If I had a partner that was going bonkers because he figured his penis was too small, and I knew he felt very threatened by that, plus I cheated on him with a guy nicknamed "Jimmy the Dong" you can bet that I would be doing some heavy penance in the penis department.

 

I would honestly expect him to be a loose cannon. If I did not feel physically threatened by him and could see that his insecurities are his, and not take them personally, or be greatly upset by him pushing me away when I try to comfort him in the height of upset..... I could deal.

 

Frankly, I would probably end up leaving just to relieve the pressure and the depression of it all if I thought it would help.

 

I would also tell him what I found undealable and the behaviours and requests I found beyond what I could tolerate. I would also make it perfectly clear that I would be leaving the set of behaviours and not HIM or HIS PENIS if I couldn't tolerate it. I would also be heavily apologetic over the pain that directly torpedoed his insecurities.

 

Relationships aren't picture perfect.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah...but that goes without saying, we already know as men is a double-standard but we're not going to really raise hell over that and we're not going to see any feminist rallying for that "equality" any time soon, women are allowed a certain level of craziness and erratic emotional behavior and that's just the way it is. A man could never act out this way without being called abusive, controlling and having the woman's safety being questioned at every turn...especially spitting in her face, my god the headlines that would make.

 

However, that's really not the point here if he's trying to save his marriage...the fact is he's got the circumstances at hand to deal with. It doesn't give her the right to act this way, but as a cheater he's going to be burned on the stake no matter what she does...I know this from personal experience.

 

We also don't know her side of the story and this guys faults, everything we are hearing is a critique about her and her behavior...she's the one being thrown under the bus here, other than us knowing that he cheated, we don't know what other habits, traits or qualities about this guy that would rattle opinion and perspective of the situation.

 

At any rate, if she's got serious issues...then he's got serious issues for being with the woman for 25 years and choosing an affair to resolve his grievances...let's cut both ways here, you don't just be this super healthy person with this super nut and last for that length of time, both people have to got to have issues/problems in that kind of dynamic or it would have never lasted.

 

He needs to be realistic about the consequences of his actions but also she needs to be reasonable about her treatment of him, and that needs to be resolved in some way, through counseling likely at this point...this is really an EMERGENCY STATE, and he just seems to have been sitting on it for 2 years like this waiting for it to blow over.

 

Both people are at fault here and the way relationships work is, both people need to take responsibility for their actions and behaviors and they need to be able to separate their own personal issues from the relationship issues...but they both could use some insight and personal reflection, not just for the sake of the marriage but for the sake of themselves...too much pride taking place here and both people just not looking out for one another. Pointing fingers leads nowhere.

 

I agree with this for the most part. I don't think women should have more "Free run" or anything. Period. But I do see where a woman's safety would be questioned far more often than a man's in the same situation.

 

I also think I missed some of the physical stuff in the OP.

 

The spitting is totally gross and unacceptable.

 

The only thing I might tweak a little bit is about the fact that "he must have issues too." I do agree that he must have issues, either ones he brought into the relationship or ones caused by living with such issues for over 20 plus years. I am quite sure he has unhealthy coping skills. We also aren't hearing from his wife who might say something like " he says he wishes I was dead so I told him I wanted him to die in a plane crash" etc. Or whatever else.

 

The only thing that I would want to point out was that his issues are probably not equally as bad. They could be much less or much greater than hers. He could easily be unstable and not sharing that with us because he doesn't see it, see it as a contributing factor or see it as a problem.

[sandylee1]

My view is that the OP is tolerating this behaviour , because he feels guilty following the affair. Perhaps you feel responsible for this unreasonable behaviour and that you 'drove' her to this , especially if she was never anything like this before.

 

She needs help and you need to take decisive action, even if she doesnt like it. She's not willing to have counselling because she knows a counsellor would tell her this behaviour is abusive.

 

I'm sure none of the self help books say her physical abuse is acceptable.

 

If you were a male relative of mine , I'd say to exit this marriage quickly , because it's not safe to be around her and whilst she probably isn't physically stronger than you, you really never know what she's capable of in this traumatised state.

 

It doesn't matter whether she wants to seperate or not. You don't need her permission, you need to set down your terms to reconcile or leave.

 

Your terms should be :

 

No violence

No spitting

No unreasonable demands like, not washing the car on the drive

No reporting what the hairdresser was wearing

Urge her to seek IC

 

Make your list. Tell her you understand her hurt, but you CANNOT reconcile while she carries on this way.

 

I've known a few betrayed spouses say , they've stayed in the marriage to punish the WS. The WS feels guilty to pull the plug, but your human and this has to end.

[autumnnight]

Suicide is NOT an act of selfishness.

 

In fact, doesn't that seem rather irrational.

 

The utter destruction of the self being "selfish."

 

Suicide and the associated threats most often point to heavy distress on the individual, whether the individual causes it themselves or not.

 

Suicide and the associated threats show being overwhelmed and unable to cope with the pain. To the point where ending everything is viewed as a more viable option that continuing to suffer and believing that one is merely a burden to all of those around them.

 

I'm a survivor of an attempt. I know the drill.

 

My basic point: her histrionic and obsessive behavior is just as destructive as his A.

[billbobb]

I am a firm believer that when their is an affair, that usually means the relationship should have ended anyways. People usually have an affair because they was something wrong in the relationship. It is so hard to heal wounds after an affair, often times it's healthier for both parties to just go their separate ways. I've seen so many couples try to make it work and it just makes things worst.