: Are these limitations reasonable, 2 years after affair?

[autumnnight]

I tend to agree with every word Got It posted.

 

Beyond that, here is my take. A BS is under no obligation to stay with a WS. A WS is under no obligation to take years of punishment.

[81West]

It stuns me, absolutely stuns me, what we humans allow to become normalized in our lives. The BW's pain and hurt and anger even two years later is very, very sad and very, very understandable. But we are doing this OP a disservice if we don't point out that this particular expression of those feelings is utter madness. Like, batsh*t. NO. THEY ARE NOT REASONABLE. Any questions?

[autumnnight]

It stuns me, absolutely stuns me, what we humans allow to become normalized in our lives. The BW's pain and hurt and anger even two years later is very, very sad and very, very understandable. But we are doing this OP a disservice if we don't point out that this particular expression of those feelings is utter madness. Like, batsh*t. NO. THEY ARE NOT REASONABLE. Any questions?

 

It's that weird all or nothing thing. Since the action of the WS were ALWAYS bad (and they were), the actions of the BS can NEVER be bad....or something.

[81West]

It's that weird all or nothing thing. Since the action of the WS were ALWAYS bad (and they were), the actions of the BS can NEVER be bad....or something.

 

I think we always rightly want to give the feelings of the BS a wide, wide berth of time and scope. Healing is an extraordinarily painful and uneven process, and we all get that and don't want to add any further hurt or judgement.

 

But.

 

The baseline for any reasonable discussion of this poster's situation has to be an acknowledgement that this particular situation has to cease. Now. Like call a figurative ambulance, because it's an emergency. This poster has lost perspective and should not spend another moment wondering if any of it is OK. It's not.

[Clay]

I think we always rightly want to give the feelings of the BS a wide, wide berth of time and scope. Healing is an extraordinarily painful and uneven process, and we all get that and don't want to add any further hurt or judgement.

 

But.

 

The baseline for any reasonable discussion of this poster's situation has to be an acknowledgement that this particular situation has to cease. Now. Like call a figurative ambulance, because it's an emergency. This poster has lost perspective and should not spend another moment wondering if any of it is OK. It's not.

 

I think you need to keep in account your only hearing his side of this. Who knows what else he did to her. I personally don't have any sympathy for him. He gets what he deserves. He is just going have to figure out a way to reach her and help her heal. If he doesn't feel he can do that at least he can be honest with her and tell her its not working out for him and leave.

 

Its things like this why I never support staying with a cheater.

 

Clay

[minimariah]

When the shock of finding out your spouse is a cheating alien can completely change your whole worldview and even your place in the universe.

 

people survive infidelity & move on with their lives every single day... & then you have those who abuse their WSs but keep staying, insisting that the abuse is well deserved and that their WSs should just deal with it. that's a textbook abuser who finally has the ammunition & an excuse to use it.

 

infidelity changes you, for sure -- but it definitely won't make you crazy, won't change your entire character (IF you're stable) & won't turn you from a "good" person into a full blown abuser.

 

this is the OP's W's true colours and issues coming up. what is the point in staying if you're going to be this vile to your spouse...? no way is this a person who knows how to handle emotional distress in a healthy way.

 

lots of us who had dealt with infidelity but this behavior just isn't normal -- she actually attacks him and spits in his face every once in a while...? refuses to watch TV & deleted his music because Rihanna over there might just be too sexy? come on now.

[loveboid]

I think your wife hates you.

[Ninjainpajamas]

people survive infidelity & move on with their lives every single day... & then you have those who abuse their WSs but keep staying, insisting that the abuse is well deserved and that their WSs should just deal with it. that's a textbook abuser who finally has the ammunition & an excuse to use it.

 

infidelity changes you, for sure -- but it definitely won't make you crazy, won't change your entire character (IF you're stable) & won't turn you from a "good" person into a full blown abuser.

 

this is the OP's W's true colours and issues coming up. what is the point in staying if you're going to be this vile to your spouse...? no way is this a person who knows how to handle emotional distress in a healthy way.

 

lots of us who had dealt with infidelity but this behavior just isn't normal -- she actually attacks him and spits in his face every once in a while...? refuses to watch TV & deleted his music because Rihanna over there might just be too sexy? come on now.

 

Look, I've cheated quite a bit when I was younger on a number of women for a number of years, I've seen every type of behavior out of different type of women and I can attest that while her behavior is a bit "extreme", it still falls within the perimeters of how many women can behave, if you don't believe that and you're a man...you're in for a possible rude awakening.

 

You can definitely drive a woman crazy and turn a perfectly normal woman without any abusive tendencies, into an abusive and crazy person. I've seen it with multiple women myself, whom showed absolutely no abusive qualities or tendencies go completely nuts. It's the extreme amount of hurt and pain that drives them to feel so out of control and damaged, they don't know what to do and they're not trying to be abusive for the sake of being abusive, they're so scattered and broken that they don't even know how to control their feelings, you destroyed this huge part of their trust and emotions...if anything these women are extremely vulnerable which makes them behave so wildly. It makes them question everything, their self-worth, their emotions, everything is jeopardized in a moment and what you had together.

 

Now of course like the OP, I thought this was all crazy town...I just looked at it from my perspective and felt everything at the time was blown way out proportion and kind of with an attitude of "c'mon get over it already"...and I just wanted things to shift back into a normal and functional situation, go back to the way it was before...but at least for me it never did, and partly or maybe even greatly it can be said that due to my lack of understanding, and emotional sensitivity in understanding how she felt, how she was affected and what she needed...caused me to be defensive, withdrawn and disregard everything as complete nonsense and craziness which of course only makes the situation worse and the healing not able to take place.

 

But looking back now, I'm glad i understand the difference...it took my years to understand it but now I get it. You don't just sweep over something like this, laying a giant blanket over and moving on. It doesn't just get pushed out of mind and out of sight just because it's over, there's a large scar there now...you in fact caused a shift, rattled the world into a mix and sent large rifts that caused separation and in some cases unrepairable damage to that relationship forever.

 

As men we think we get a free pass at these things, we think that it'll just all subside and a new leaf can be turned over and started anew. But not all men are the same and capable of the same things, some may be able to partly do that but many others will not...they will all be very angry, hurt and vengeful in some way...whether they act on those feelings or not is up to them, but they likely turn away from that because they're trying to repair the relationship again with you.

 

I want to make something very clear, although this is understandable..especially to me, it doesn't make it "right".

 

This is an unhealthy situation and changes need to be made...but if you're really invested; and I know right now it feels difficult to find yourself invested in much anything in this relationship..you've got to understand that this is the "wrath" you can occur, sorry you didn't get someone like minimariah who just rolls with the punches...I've had those kind of women too, but you can't hold that against your wife, I'm pretty sure that whomever cheated on her did it after so many years, children and everything else..who knows what this woman believed before you had done this...you can't just say that her behavior isn't "normal"...that's like telling her she doesn't have a right to the way that she feels, and that's the worst thing you can do or one of them.

 

But if you're really invested, then you've got to do the work...you've got to get yourself in therapy and start to get her working through those emotions...not just for you and your relationship, but for her...she needs to heal from that, she needs to be able to move on from this. I've got one ex whom we had our drama 10 years ago, the woman still distrusts me and holds a coldness towards me that I'm in awe and shock over, I've changed a lot since then but she still isn't over it and she still hasn't gotten past it...if there was one thing I could give her, it would be to be able to move past that experience.

 

If you just run from the situation, then she's never going to heal or recover from it...it's going to be a bad situation for you and this relationship after the fact, that will involve your kids. You need to think about the bigger picture, and the abuse and drama needs to be faced and worked through...let her delete a stupid Rihanna song and refuse to watch TV, let her make her comments about other women, she's so damn angry and hurt by you, I don't know why you can't understand that...everything she does it out of hurt not hate...she hates what you did to her, not you.

 

If you don't work through this, you're going to regret it...you'll be like most guys and took the easy way out. I've taken a beating for the things I've done, even physically hit, at one point even having to walk away because things were getting too bad. There has to be a line drawn and a compromise made, because these things aren't going to help but cause the end of the relationship itself...but you can't just hold it against her and think she's this evil and mean person...think to yourself who she is, she didn't change she just became consumed with a anger and hurt you hadn't seen before.

 

It's difficult and takes a lot of work...and right now I'm sure it feels impossible and like what the hell is the effort even worth. But you've got to do it for a multitude of reasons and telling her she's wrong, crazy or this isn't normal will not get you anywhere. She needs you to act the opposite believe it or not...everything instinctual right now is the opposite of what you should do...you need to instead walk into the fire so to speak, you've got to be consumed by it but boundaries need to be made and establish, but you need to first show investment and good will...you need to barter with what she needs, not threats of what you will take away.

 

I hope you understand this better how it works, but it takes some real balls and a swallowing of pride to go through this as a man..it's hard, it's difficult and everything inside of you just wants to run away from this madness...but you've got to think about her well-being and the relationship with your kids as well as your marriage. You've got to at least put a dent in this and change something, or whatever you leave over is going to always be there inside of her.

[OldLady]

Sorry but I have to disagree with some of the comments. You are experiencing verbal and physical abuse. And for 2 years? Where and when will it end? Her behavior is not helping to rebond with you. She is slowly pushing you out the door. This doesn't give her a license to abuse you. You are living in a jail. It's hard to love your jailer.

[Arieswoman]

Dave 1963,

It is difficult to know what to make about this because I have no knowledge of your wife's personality before you cheated.

 

It is possible she has mental health problems which may/may not been exacerbated by your affair. In this case she needs IC/therapy to work through these. However, unless she is willing to do that I can't see a good outcome.

 

Or, she has allowed you to stay in the marriage to punish you for what you did, and will continue to punish you until you can take no more and leave. Then she will say " look what a b@$t@rd he is, he cheats on me and now he's abandoning me !"

 

So you're between a rock and a hard place here.

 

This is why I am not a fan of reconciliation with a cheater.

 

I knew that I could never live with my exH again after he cheated, mainly because I would be throwing his affair in face daily, from DD to the crack of doom. So I got a swift divorce and tried to move on.

 

Sadly, you may have to do the same.

[No Limit]

The TV licence/subscription was cancelled last year.

 

What the...

 

Look, affairs mess very, very badly with the betrayed. Honestly I too would probably turn into a dragon at home - but that isn't healthy either and stress shortens lifespans too. The only way you have a chance at getting past this will be through counseling. And I say past it, not over it because she most likely won't forget it the rest of her life.

 

On a sidenote, it's situations like these that make me wonder why people stay. I doubt OP even realizes that his wife feels like being set on fire by him after his sidechick threw some jet fuel over her every single day and has been for 2 years. No remorse at all.

[Dave1963]

Thank-you. So many responses and so much helpful feedback.

 

She has said on many occasions that she wants a divorce and is only staying in this relationship because she doesn't want to upset our dau.

 

Dave 1963,

It is difficult to know what to make about this because I have no knowledge of your wife's personality before you cheated.

 

It is possible she has mental health problems which may/may not been exacerbated by your affair. In this case she needs IC/therapy to work through these. However, unless she is willing to do that I can't see a good outcome.....

She has always had what I feel is a firey temper and will shout and slam doors at what I see is the slightest incident. She sees it as normal for a determined person of high values. She has always claimed she is unattractive, which I disagree with totally, and before the A was angry if other women were 'showing off' in any way. She has said that the A has exacerbated those feelings.

 

However, the A happened due to a deteriorating relationship over many years, no sex for a year and was made worse by her wishing that my plane had crashed on a business trip I went on just prior to the A and that she wanted to leave me later that year.

 

But, of course, I should have discussed these matters with her, rather than going behind her back.

 

... And for 2 years? Where and when will it end? Her behavior is not helping to rebond with you. .... You are living in a jail. It's hard to love your jailer.

Yes, things do not seem to be improving - the opposite, if anything.

 

...let her delete a stupid Rihanna song and refuse to watch TV, let her make her comments about other women, she's so damn angry and hurt by you, I don't know why you can't understand that...

I _can_ understand it. Her rants seem crazy initially, but when she explains the situation, I can understand her position. That is what makes it so hard.

 

was she like this before the A...? ... because no way she had turned into a "monster" & an emotionally unstable abuser over night and just because you had an affair. emotionally mature folks can handle an affair & betrayal in an emotionally mature way. everything else is when folks real character comes up.

Many of the limitations are due to her 'high moral standards' and having no desire to mix with people of a slutty or sexist nature, but she had suppressed her feelings until her illness and the A. Since then, she's said that her life has been shortened and I have f***** things up, so she wants to live it her way from now on.

 

... This poster has lost perspective and should not spend another moment wondering if any of it is OK. It's not.

I do feel I have lost perspective. I don't know whether her responses and limitations are acceptable or not, which is why, after reading this forum for a while, decided to ask for some help / feedback.

[No Limit]

I don't know whether her responses and limitations are acceptable or not, which is why, after reading this forum for a while, decided to ask for some help / feedback.

 

But this is the point - as a wayward, you have no say in these matters anymore if you want to reconcile. Basically degraded from husband to "don't take a wrong step or you'll trigger me". She's been in the anger-stage for 2 years despite you cutting back wherever you can - if you started talking back now I think plates would start flying against walls in your house.

 

But seeing how she wished you had died prior to the A and stuff, looks like your marriage has been dead long before your A. Why are you staying with someone who wished you had died in a plane crash?!

[Mr Carson]

But this is the point - as a wayward, you have no say in these matters anymore if you want to reconcile. Basically degraded from husband to "don't take a wrong step or you'll trigger me". She's been in the anger-stage for 2 years despite you cutting back wherever you can - if you started talking back now I think plates would start flying against walls in your house.

 

But seeing how she wished you had died prior to the A and stuff, looks like your marriage has been dead long before your A. Why are you staying with someone who wished you had died in a plane crash?!

 

I have to agree.

 

Dave, if 1963 is your dob I'm sure at this point in your life you don't want to start over, like many I don't excuse the A but come on man. I would rather live in a refrigerator box down by the river than live like you're living. How old is your daughter?

[loveboid]

She wanted you to die in a plane crash? Dude, divorce her. She doesn't want you. Your kid will be fine.

[elaine567]

The wife's reaction is the unhappy consequence of the OP having an affair. This is what happens when a person takes his marriage and effectively throws it in the bin after 25 years, by sleeping with another woman.

 

This is not some 2 year marriage rocked to the core over some affair, but both dust themselves off and carry on, or they split up. (It hurts for a while but they tend to both move on to better things.)

 

This is a betrayal of a 25 year partnership and that is so much more devastating. This is not a case of carrying on as if nothing happened this is serious stuff.

After 25 years married, she has a shortened lifespan to face too and instead of having her partner stoically standing by her to support her through living with that catastrophic news, he let his dick do the talking and betrayed her with another woman.

So we can all sit here and tut and suggest she is unhinged and she is abusing the poor chap, but she is going through hell.

NO wonder she hates him and wants to make him suffer, she is hurting so bad and I guess she is suffering from affair PTSD* too.

EVERY flirty, slutty, showing off woman she sees will trigger images of him "f****** the OW and licking her c***".

 

OK her behaviour is UNREASONABLE, but the affair is something she cannot deal with, it is all too much. The person she should turn to, the person she would have turned to in moments of distress, is the very person who caused her so much pain.

She wants to curl up and feel safe and secure in her marriage, but she is lost, her husband hates her, else he would never have deserted her in her time of need, and she hates him for what he did to her and how he injured her with so little regard for her feelings.

She therefore lashes out, like a wounded wild animal.

 

*Betrayal from Infidelity and PTSD

[autumnnight]

Or, she has allowed you to stay in the marriage to punish you for what you did, and will continue to punish you until you can take no more and leave. Then she will say " look what a b@$t@rd he is, he cheats on me and now he's abandoning me !"

 

This happens way way WAY more often than most people would like to admit. And let's be honest, with comments such as "once you are wayward you have no say," it is actually encouraged.

 

Having an A is among the very worst things one spouse can do to another. A spouse who has been cheated on has just cause to walk. They have just cause to hurt and need help healing for a very long time.

 

They do NOT have JUST cause to keep their partner around for a whipping boy indefinitely. They just don't.

[Mr Carson]

This happens way way WAY more often than most people would like to admit. And let's be honest, with comments such as "once you are wayward you have no say," it is actually encouraged.

 

Having an A is among the very worst things one spouse can do to another. A spouse who has been cheated on has just cause to walk. They have just cause to hurt and need help healing for a very long time.

 

They do NOT have JUST cause to keep their partner around for a whipping boy indefinitely. They just don't.

 

 

She has every right to be hurt, even two years post. But how are her actions doing anything positive for either party? If she wants to save the marriage she's doing everything wrong, if she trying to drive him away she's doing everything right. At some point she needs to forgive him or divorce him, but this is not a healthy environment for either one of them. Also she had these abusive tendencies before the A.

[autumnnight]

She has every right to be hurt, even two years post. But how are her actions doing anything positive for either party? If she wants to save the marriage she's doing everything wrong, if she trying to drive him away she's doing everything right. At some point she needs to forgive him or divorce him, but this is not a healthy environment for either one of them. Also she had these abusive tendencies before the A.

 

I would think the hurt NEVER completely goes away. And honesty and transparency are for life.

 

But there comes a time when we either need to choose real reconciliation...or just divorce.

[Dave1963]

elaine567: Yes, I agree with all your points... but how do we move forward?

 

Mr Carson: Yes, I am 52. Dau is grown up and left home.

 

autumnnight: Thank you for your many posts. She flips between a) wanting our 'stupid' marriage to end and to free her to do what she wants and b) to being loving and feeling there has been progress. She doesn't want a divorce or even separation as it would be damaging on our dau. But she says that doing things 'her way' is mandatory if we are to stay together.

 

It seems the A and her illness has brought out an 'extreme' feminism in her, which I don't disagree with in principle, but it is not helping us progress with day-to-day life.

[Keenly]

Step 1: quit job.

 

Step 2: chain yourself up in the basement.

 

Step : happy wife.

[berniev]

Step 1: quit job.

 

Step 2: chain yourself up in the basement.

 

Step : happy wife.

 

 

Step 1: quit job.

 

Step 2: chain yourself up in the basement and follow her exact orders

 

Step 3: the wife will leave after having you "trained", I mean enslaved.

[81West]

If you had to pick the thing or things in her rules that are most damaging to your mental health and ability to engage with life and enjoy it, what would they be? Secondly, what benefits or enjoyment do you get out of the relationship and your marriage as it currently is?

[elaine567]

elaine567: Yes, I agree with all your points... but how do we move forward?

 

It seems the A and her illness has brought out an 'extreme' feminism in her, which I don't disagree with in principle, but it is not helping us progress with day-to-day life.

 

Understand that this is PTSD you are coping with here and not some "extreme" feminism. Read the link I gave you and try and understand what she is going through here.

 

You are essentially "over it", bully for you, but you now have to deal with the real consequences of your actions here. This will not be a quick fix.

She is shocked and coming at a time where she will be all over the place anyway - menopausal, empty nest syndrome, ageing body, facing mortality, it is all just a perfect storm for her to go off the rails.

You both need counselling, IC and MC to get you both through this.

[Keenly]

He needs counseling because she is behaving unreasonably and irrationally?