staying with a cheater.

[sixtoerings]

I hesitated to post this question on public forums although i can desperately use some insight, because I assumed i'd just get "he cheated on you, dump him" replies. that is solid and fair advice- don't get me wrong. i'm just looking for advice beyond that, relevant to the place i am in in the relationship now.

 

I've been dating my boyfriend for about 8 months. We've always had a good relationship, we're compatible and get along very well as friends and lovers. He's always been affectionate, attentive, and loving toward me. UNTIL... 3 months ago, i discovered by his own admission that he cheated on me about a month after we became 'official', with an on and off "friends with benefits" person, who he claims to never have wanted an actual relationship with (even tho they've slept together on and off for years). Additionally, I found out he slept with this same girl twice while we were dating. That wouldn't bother me BUT, I thought we were exclusive. What happened was he said he wasn't going to date anyone else, and I said OK and he said nothing else about it. I wasn't 'ready' to say "I won't date anyone else either" -- and I went on one, maybe two dates after that, but never slept with anyone else. Anyway, he said he wasn't seeing anyone else which was a lie.

 

I found out about him cheating because I just felt like something wasn't right. I basically said one night, something isn't right, i'm not sure what, but I don't know if I want to be in this relationship anymore- i have to think about it. the next day he seemed upset. i said again, something isn't right... have you cheated on me? and he said he had, about a month and a half prior. He said a couple of days after the cheating, he cut off contact and blocked the girl on social media. I demanded to see that she was blocked on FB and she was.

 

He said he'd do anything he could to make it better- and I demanded honesty, and also told him I was going to contact whoever I'd like and find out the truth about his past, which he said was OK. He admitted he'd also cheated on his exgirlfriend with this same 'friends with benefits' girl. i told him i'd be contacting her to help me understand his past..... long story short, I talked to exes, the girl he cheated on me with, and girls he had dated. I wanted the 100% truth about who he was REGARDLESS if we broke up or stayed together. He said his cheating on me stemmed from feeling as if I didn't need him because of some insensitive things I did around that time. It's true, I did do some things I shouldn't have but they were NO EXCUSE for cheating on me. And anyway, he's cheated in his past, this was not a one time thing.

 

I took a couple of weeks to think about things and digest all of this terrible information about who he was, which was SO different than the person i've known him as. I then made the decision to stay with him. This is why:

 

1) i've cheated on two partners- but don't feel that because of this, I will always cheat. I cheated because I was unhappy with the relationship but didn't have the balls to end it, which seemed similar to why he cheated on his ex, and so I had some empathy for his awful behavior because I've behaved badly too. I also believe he's insecure and his cheating stems from a need to be validated which I, too, can relate to.

 

2) we are deeply compatible and all other, every single other, aspect of our relationship is positive, and better than any relationship i've had in the past ten years. (although lack of trust may slowly destroy this compatibility)

 

3) and the BIGGEST reason-- he has agreed to 100% transparency. He's given me his passwords to everything (facebook, email, phone); he texts me a picture of his timeclock when he leaves work whenever I ask (I don't ask daily, because i don't like the way that makes me feel). He gave me a key to his house and said I can stop by anytime, day or night. There are zero times he is unavailable to me (except when he's in the lab at work, which still creates anxiety for me, even though he can prove he's there). He doesn't get even a little bit angry, defensive, upset or frustrated if I ask for proof of anything he says he's doing. Since I found out about the cheating, there have been zero times where I was unsure of where he was or what he was doing... no suspicious incidents whatsoever.

 

He talks about the future, marriage and children, he asked me to live with him when my lease is up and invited me to come to meet his family on the other side of the country in a few months. He's warm, loving, attentive, always available, always wanting to be with me and spend time with me and my family and friends. I seem to be his priority, and he tells me I'm the most important thing in his life and he's never felt the kind of guilt he felt about cheating on me in his life (this I have a hard time believing). He says he'll do "whatever it takes, as long as it takes" to show me that he means all of this, and his actions have, so far, backed all of that up.

 

So there are the facts. If he ever cheated or lied to me again or starting withholding any information about where he was to me, it'd be over immediately and he knows this.

 

The problem is my anxiety continues to be through the roof. I can't think of anything more he could do to prove he's not cheating. But because of how anxious I am, I hold back from being 100% open with him, and our closeness at times suffers as a result. I also create fights, often.... yesterday, he didn't text me back for an hour when at work in the lab (he can't bring his phone in, but he can show me his electronic timecard so I know he's there).... and it triggered a total meltdown. I become sure he's still lying and cheating, working so hard at our relationship just to trick and deceive me. He stands by me through all of this, and although he does become frustrated, ultimately he's still there for me, saying he'll do whatever it takes to help me feel better and less anxious. Recently he's brought up couples counseling as an option for us.

 

I just don't know what to do, I feel hesitant to think about counseling. So my two options are: when my anxiety is high, send him twenty texts accusing him of anything/everything OR pull back, don't respond to his messages so much, remain a bit cool and distant from him. These are the only two options that help me, and neither is good for our relationship. even if he never cheats again, I feel we're on a path headed toward destruction because of the anxiety i feel over this.

 

Is it just a lost cause?

Edited June 24, 2015 by sixtoerings

[sandylee1]

Don't live with him yet but give it another chance. Maintain your own home and continue the relationship and keep watching and observing. He sounds like he's sincere.

[jen1447]

It sounds like you've bscly got him held prisoner, what with the time card checks and all that. That's controller behavior frankly, usually exhibited by men but ....not this time.

 

I don't mean to bash you, sorry, but do you really want to live that way? It seems like the issue is actually moreso your own insecurity than the cheating. Have you considered therapy?

[sixtoerings]

It sounds like you've bscly got him held prisoner, what with the time card checks and all that. That's controller behavior frankly, usually exhibited by men but ....not this time.

 

I don't mean to bash you, sorry, but do you really want to live that way? It seems like the issue is actually moreso your own insecurity than the cheating. Have you considered therapy?

 

Not true, he's not held prisoner. He offered to send them daily, but I don't like feeling so controlling and I said no to that. if i get really anxious, I ask, and he sends them, but it's maybe once week that I ask, sometimes less often when I'm feeling better.

 

Yes, it may be more about my own insecurities and how much him cheating exacerbated them. I did see a therapist before all of this happened, it's just I felt I'd gained as much as I could out of it. I guess that's something I should consider doing again, but I think I'd want to see someone different.

[understand50]

sixtoerings,

 

I can relate to your situation. I was 17, when my G/F, now wife of 40 years plus, had a ONS. (you can go to my first posts if you want to read our story) She was living 2 hours away from me, and was 2 years older. My anxiety was through the roof as well.

 

It looks like you both have a past. I see you are looking at him as someone who you maybe able to marry, but his cheating is hurting you go "all" in.

 

Ok, I think time will be the big thing here. Talk to him and let him know you are struggling. As for him having to be open, I am of the opinion, that marriage work best when each other are a open book. So open books to each other, talk it out. If he is doing everything to make it better, see if you can trust again. You do not have to forget, and wont, but it will get less and less if this is to be. If in 6 months nothing is getting better, then break it off.

 

Also, after my G/F told me about her ONS, and we talked about it that weekend, aside from a letter she wrote, we never discussed it for 20 years. It would have helped us both if we had talked it out, so look at counseling, or talking to someone about your fears and such. Finally, let him know what you are going through, I am sure he would like to help you when you need it.

 

I wish you both luck.

 

I wish you luck.

[Bartlett65]

Let me get this straight: you've been dating for eight months and already you're dealing with infidelity. Please invest in a tattoo. It should read "welcome" because you're setting yourself up to be a lovely doormat. What in the world do you believe you're saving here? The reason you date someone before marriage is to find out what kind of partner he or she would be. Well, you found out. Count yourself lucky it happened so soon and then picture twenty years of marriage with all of the ups and downs that it entails. Do you really think this dude is a good bet for the long haul? Welcome. Really.

[sixtoerings]

Let me get this straight: you've been dating for eight months and already you're dealing with infidelity. Please invest in a tattoo. It should read "welcome" because you're setting yourself up to be a lovely doormat. What in the world do you believe you're saving here? The reason you date someone before marriage is to find out what kind of partner he or she would be. Well, you found out. Count yourself lucky it happened so soon and then picture twenty years of marriage with all of the ups and downs that it entails. Do you really think this dude is a good bet for the long haul? Welcome. Really.

 

I feel like if you read my whole post, you'd know why I stayed, which is because we have a high level of compatibility, he's being 100% open and transparent with me, and because he's a very sweet, attentive, great partner in all other ways. if ALL THREE of these things weren't happening, it'd be over immediately. And additionally, I've cheated too, multiple times on past partners so I have some natural empathy for him.

[nightmare01]

First - IMO a reformed cheater, one that takes 100% responsibility for their choice to cheat, gets that they caused you terrible pain, gets that their choice was NOT your fault in any way, gets that the relationship will never be what it was, AND most important of all does the hard work and heavy lifting to change their behavior such that this will never happen again... that person is probably a better bet than someone that has never cheated at all.

 

Second - you can't play warden or detective forever. At some point you have to step away from having to control the actions of your boyfriend. He will do whatever he will do, and if he really wants to cheat on you again he will find a way no matter how much you try to restrict his actions.

 

Learn to be strong as yourself. Having a boyfriend or a husband is great. Having that someone to share your life experience with and to be a partner with is what relationships are all about IMO. But don't ever be completely dependent on this other person. Be strong yourself such that if he betrays you again you will be fine moving on by yourself.

[66Charger]

What I don't understand is how or why you hold him to a higher standard then which you abided by. Exclusive is not exclusive if both parties don't agree. If he cheated physically, then you cheated emotionally. If he told you he wanted to be exclusive and you did not tell him the same, why wouldn't he assume that the exclusivity is off? On top of that, you actually proved it. Cmon now, that's not fair.

To be clear, if you clearly established exclusivity later, and this happened after that, then it isa different story.

The issue here is boundaries. Both of your boundaries in past relationships AND this one did not include exclusivity. If you both wish to continue, you both need to accept who you are, what didn't work and start fresh. Pointing fingers or saying a PA is worse than a EA will get you knowwhere.

I don't mean to beat you up OP, but you do have to accept some responsibility here.

 

It appears you really like this guy and he likes you. Accept your past, Establish some hard boundaries, be open to each other and take the leap.

 

Its hot outside and the water is cold. Jump in. (Open eyes, OK)

[sixtoerings]

What I don't understand is how or why you hold him to a higher standard then which you abided by. Exclusive is not exclusive if both parties don't agree. If he cheated physically, then you cheated emotionally. If he told you he wanted to be exclusive and you did not tell him the same, why wouldn't he assume that the exclusivity is off? On top of that, you actually proved it. Cmon now, that's not fair.

To be clear, if you clearly established exclusivity later, and this happened after that, then it isa different story.

The issue here is boundaries. Both of your boundaries in past relationships AND this one did not include exclusivity. If you both wish to continue, you both need to accept who you are, what didn't work and start fresh. Pointing fingers or saying a PA is worse than a EA will get you knowwhere.

I don't mean to beat you up OP, but you do have to accept some responsibility here.

 

It appears you really like this guy and he likes you. Accept your past, Establish some hard boundaries, be open to each other and take the leap.

 

Its hot outside and the water is cold. Jump in. (Open eyes, OK)

 

This is months ago, i think I went on one meaningless date with someone else. I agree that I shouldn't have. But it was within a month of meeting my BF I don't even remember the guys name. I definitely didn't 'emotionally' cheat.

[sixtoerings]

First - IMO a reformed cheater, one that takes 100% responsibility for their choice to cheat, gets that they caused you terrible pain, gets that their choice was NOT your fault in any way, gets that the relationship will never be what it was, AND most important of all does the hard work and heavy lifting to change their behavior such that this will never happen again... that person is probably a better bet than someone that has never cheated at all.

 

Second - you can't play warden or detective forever. At some point you have to step away from having to control the actions of your boyfriend. He will do whatever he will do, and if he really wants to cheat on you again he will find a way no matter how much you try to restrict his actions.

 

Learn to be strong as yourself. Having a boyfriend or a husband is great. Having that someone to share your life experience with and to be a partner with is what relationships are all about IMO.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with pretty much everything you said. Especially this: "if he really wants to cheat again, he will find a way." Which is part of the reason why I try not to ask for proof of where he is, pictures of his timeclock etc., although I know he'll gladly give me them. I feel asking for these things is giving me an 'easy way out' of my anxious thoughts, if that makes sense. I'm not really working through them myself, understanding that I can't control his or anyone elses behavior, etc.

 

But don't ever be completely dependent on this other person. Be strong yourself such that if he betrays you again you will be fine moving on by yourself.

 

this part is hard. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm dependent on him in any way. However, I want to maintain my independence and self-worth and strength so that if/when I'm alone again, I don't fall apart. I don't think there's a way to get really close to someone WHILE doing that... or is there? I almost feel like I have to give it 100%, fully trusting and invested, or get totally out. But I might be thinking kind of rigidly.

 

thanks for the advice everyone, it's really helpful.

[d0nnivain]

Your desire to forgive, forget & move on conflicts with your own anxiety. If you aren't going to put this in the past & trust that he won't do it again, no matter how much you claim to be compatible & loving, you are only lying to yourself. If you don't have trust, you don't have much.

 

 

 

 

You can't text him 20x. That's no way to live.

 

 

Stay with him if you like but before you do examine how much genuine happiness & peace this relationship brings into your life. If the good doesn't outweigh the bad there is no point.

[BetrayedH]

I think it's ok to reconcile with a wayward if they're truly remorseful. His (semi)voluntary confession and transparency speak to that.

 

Not married? No kids together? Only an 8 mo relationship? I can also see cutting this thing off.

 

I think the challenge here is that you're apt to suffer a repeat performance anytime you have an argument and he feels a need for validation. His excessive need for external validation hasn't been resolved. So why wouldn't you be anxious? Nothing has changed. I highly suggest individual counseling for HIM to get to the root of that problem.

 

With that said, your own hypervigilance, while normal, can also be a long-term problem. It sucks. IC might be in order for you as well so you can have an objective third party help differentiate healthy skepticism from paranoia.

 

Or perhaps you remove the trigger altogether.

[Bartlett65]

I feel like if you read my whole post, you'd know why I stayed, which is because we have a high level of compatibility, he's being 100% open and transparent with me, and because he's a very sweet, attentive, great partner in all other ways. if ALL THREE of these things weren't happening, it'd be over immediately. And additionally, I've cheated too, multiple times on past partners so I have some natural empathy for him.

 

I got that. Eight months and already you find yourself here. That bodes no good.

[sixtoerings]

Your desire to forgive, forget & move on conflicts with your own anxiety. If you aren't going to put this in the past & trust that he won't do it again, no matter how much you claim to be compatible & loving, you are only lying to yourself. If you don't have trust, you don't have much.

 

 

 

 

You can't text him 20x. That's no way to live.

 

 

Stay with him if you like but before you do examine how much genuine happiness & peace this relationship brings into your life. If the good doesn't outweigh the bad there is no point.

 

I really do appreciate opinions, but lying to myself isn't something I'm doing. I've been in enough relationships to know that general compatibility is super important and can't be forced. That said, lack of trust will ruin that over time, for sure. What I just don't know is if all of his efforts will help me gain back trust in him. We don't really spend our time in person arguing or talking about this, not anymore. We enjoy one another's company, and then when I'm alone or not busy with something, all of my anxiety overwhelms me.

 

I'm not texting him twenty times freaking out about where he is, it's like, a bunch of texts attacking and accusing him of something during an otherwise normal conversation when something tiny triggers me. And I know that's no way for me or him to live.

[Davey L]

It will never go away. It will always be there, liking a creaking floorboard to be stepped around. No matter how good things are it will be lurking in the back of your mind. At every happy moment it will be a little black cloud hanging there.

 

It never goes, not in a year, or 10 years, or 20 years, tainting your relationship. You will always wonder what it will be like to have an untainted relationship.

 

Is he worth it? Only you can know. Would another man cheat? Nobody knows. But if you decide to stay think long and hard and take a long time before making any irreversible commitments.

[sixtoerings]

I think it's ok to reconcile with a wayward if they're truly remorseful. His (semi)voluntary confession and transparency speak to that.

 

Not married? No kids together? Only an 8 mo relationship? I can also see cutting this thing off.

 

I think the challenge here is that you're apt to suffer a repeat performance anytime you have an argument and he feels a need for validation. His excessive need for external validation hasn't been resolved. So why wouldn't you be anxious? Nothing has changed. I highly suggest individual counseling for HIM to get to the root of that problem.

 

With that said, your own hypervigilance, while normal, can also be a long-term problem. It sucks. IC might be in order for you as well so you can have an objective third party help differentiate healthy skepticism from paranoia.

 

Or perhaps you remove the trigger altogether.

 

He's told me he'll get counseling if I want him to, and he recently suggested couples counseling as a way to help me regain my trust in him.

 

I guess as good together as I think we are, I'm almost embarrassed to go to counseling with someone I've only been with 8 months. I agree that it's very early to have these kind of problems, and yet, everything else is so good that I'm tempted to work through it, too.

 

I stupidly stayed in 2 long term relationships with people I was NOT compatible with and I think those experiences have made me value all of the good things about he and I more... maybe more than I should? We spend a lot of time together and don't argue or fight, we enjoy the same things, there's no pet peeves or weird irritations we bring out in each other, just enjoyable and fun happy times together. We're that couple who seem so perfect to outside observers, and some of that is accurate. But he's a cheater. So it's a wash.

 

So I'm half in and half out, basically.

Edited June 24, 2015 by sixtoerings

[d0nnivain]

. I also create fights, often.... yesterday, he didn't text me back for an hour when at work in the lab (he can't bring his phone in, but he can show me his electronic timecard so I know he's there).... and it triggered a total meltdown. I become sure he's still lying and cheating, working so hard at our relationship just to trick and deceive me.

 

 

So my two options are: when my anxiety is high, send him twenty texts accusing him of anything/everything OR

 

I'm not texting him twenty times freaking out about where he is, it's like, a bunch of texts attacking and accusing him of something during an otherwise normal conversation when something tiny triggers me. And I know that's no way for me or him to live.

 

 

First you said you were. Now you are saying you are not.

 

 

Before you can do anything about your relationship you need to figure out what you want.

 

 

If you continue to think he's cheating on you when he doesn't text you back for any hour, this relationship can't last no matter how much you claim to want it to.

[BetrayedH]

I really do appreciate opinions, but lying to myself isn't something I'm doing. I've been in enough relationships to know that general compatibility is super important and can't be forced. That said, lack of trust will ruin that over time, for sure. What I just don't know is if all of his efforts will help me gain back trust in him. We don't really spend our time in person arguing or talking about this, not anymore. We enjoy one another's company, and then when I'm alone or not busy with something, all of my anxiety overwhelms me.

 

I'm not texting him twenty times freaking out about where he is, it's like, a bunch of texts attacking and accusing him of something during an otherwise normal conversation when something tiny triggers me. And I know that's no way for me or him to live.

 

What you have to look for is "consistent actions over time." It's going to take some time. Trust doesn't come back easily. Blind 100% trust never comes back, and probably shouldn't.

[sixtoerings]

First you said you were. Now you are saying you are not.

 

 

Before you can do anything about your relationship you need to figure out what you want.

 

 

If you continue to think he's cheating on you when he doesn't text you back for any hour, this relationship can't last no matter how much you claim to want it to.

 

First you said you were. Now you are saying you are not.

 

 

Before you can do anything about your relationship you need to figure out what you want.

 

 

If you continue to think he's cheating on you when he doesn't text you back for any hour, this relationship can't last no matter how much you claim to want it to.

 

I AM sending him those kind of messages. I was unclear but what I meant was, he's not out doing who knows what at some suspicious hour with me freaking out... if that EVER happened I'd be out of this relationship immediately. this is during the workday OR during a totally normal conversation. my point is that even with him doing everything right, my anxiety is unmanageable.

 

I hate the use of certain syntax i.e. how much I "claim" to want this to work out. I'm on advice board because I'm torn. Is that OK?

[d0nnivain]

I get that you don't know. If you had answers you wouldn't be on a message board looking for them.

 

 

However I don't think you are listening to your own subconscious. Your instincts are telling you something which is why you have unmanageable anxiety to use your word.

[sixtoerings]

I get that you don't know. If you had answers you wouldn't be on a message board looking for them.

 

 

However I don't think you are listening to your own subconscious. Your instincts are telling you something which is why you have unmanageable anxiety to use your word.

 

That's true. But I have lots of anxiety in general, which started long before I met him, so it's hard to tell what parts of it are reasonable. If he's still cheating I have no idea when or how he'd be pulling it off, but it's definitely not impossible. But maybe it's more like anxiety related to who he is and what he might do in the future when my guard is down.

[ExpatInItaly]

Eh, only 8 months in and already cheating? I'd walk.

 

You're not that compatible if the way he deals with feeling neglected and not needed is by sleeping with another girl. I'm guessing that's not the way you resolve problems, is it?

 

Sorry, but it wouldn't be worth it to me. He showed you how he deals with rough patches and that does indeed point to a fundamental problem with compatibility, not to mention immaturity, disrespect and the ability to lie - for a good few months until you asked him. Not good at all. I certainly wouldn't be wasting money on couples' therapy with someone who kept up a lie until confronted, particularly for such a short relationship.

[Arieswoman]

sixtoerings,

I can see a case of "the pot calling the kettle black".

 

i've cheated on two partners- but don't feel that because of this, I will always cheat. I cheated because I was unhappy with the relationship but didn't have the balls to end it,

 

So how are things different now? If you have a history of cheating, have you addressed the issues that cause this and explored your own motivations?

 

If not, then you could find yourself attracting those who have the same issues as you do.

 

I really believe that "like attracts like".

 

IMO before you start working on this relationship, you need to do some work on yourself.

[sixtoerings]

sixtoerings,

I can see a case of "the pot calling the kettle black".

 

 

 

So how are things different now? If you have a history of cheating, have you addressed the issues that cause this and explored your own motivations?

 

If not, then you could find yourself attracting those who have the same issues as you do.

 

I really believe that "like attracts like".

 

IMO before you start working on this relationship, you need to do some work on yourself.

 

But, I have. Those things happened a long time ago. I HAVE worked on those issues. I don't feel at all that I'd engage in that same behavior. I've thought that this is karma though, for my past mistakes.