American girl and guy from Europe

[macq]

Hello everyone!

 

I hope this is the right place to tell this story. English is not my first language, so I am sorry for any mistakes which I have done.

 

I have been living in USA almost two years. But, I do not have too much experience with American girls (and dating in USA). Ten months ago I met a girl in my PhD program. I am 26 years old, she is 23 years old. I come from Europe, she is from USA. Since we are in the same PhD program, we see each other almost every day (but right now she is abroad). She is a shy person with an introverted personality. Nevertheless, during the first two weeks after we met first time, we hanged out and talked each other few times. I thought “I like her and I would like to know her better”, so I asked her about dinner. She agreed. After the dinner, we were hanging out often for the next two months. She became more open with me and she started trust me (what was not easy because she was a shy person). Also, she was bringing for me small things pretty often (like her favorite paean butter or ground coffee from Middle America, which she got from her sister). I was not sure, if she likes me or not, thus I asked her about second dinner. She agreed but, this time, she found a restaurant with the cuisine from my country, what was really nice. After the second dinner, I was sure I felt in love with her and I wanted to move things forward. I gave her to understand I am interested in her more than a friend. But after this, she texted me “she cannot be right now in a relationship”. I was crushed, because I did not know what to think about this since we were close. We did not see each other one week (Thanksgiving break), so I have a time to think. I was thinking “okay, maybe she cannot be in a relationship right now, so I will stay around her and I will see”. When we met again after the break, we were spending even more time than before, almost every day 3-4 hours for the next two weeks before I came back to my country for Christmas. When I came back to US she was very excited to see me, but I was not, because I did not know what to do with the whole situation between us. I knew, I should move on. For the next month we were hanging out pretty often, but I started to avoid her. She felt something is wrong, but she was too afraid to ask me. Instead, she was apologizing for everything what she thinks she did in wrong way. One night she texted me how much she values my friendship and “She would be crashed if I did not want to be her friend anymore”. She was texting me all the time. When I did not want to meet her then she was trying to meet me in another way. I was trying to move on because this situation was very painful for me. I was really into her. One day I said to her I have to move on and she started cry. I felt very bad saying this without any explanation so I texted her “I cannot be your friend because I have very strong feelings to you”. She texted me back “she does not see us being anything more than close friends” what caused me even more pain. I was really devastated. I did not talk to her two weeks, I just could not. She was also crushed; she could not be in the same office where I was because my presence was too difficult for her. We even argued and she said I hurt her. Yet, during these two weeks I came to my office and I saw her with another guy (who I had never seen before). I was very upset, but I did not say anything to her. I left from the office. An hour later, she texted me this guy was only her friend and she hopes I was not upset seeing her with him. Three days later, we finally had a conversation about the whole situation between us during which I explained her I am in this relation because I felt in love with her. She did not know what to say, she started cry saying how guilty she feels because she did not realize I had been into her for a long time. After this conversation two days later, I met her again and staying in a rain, I looked into her eyes and I said “just give me a chance”. She said she does not know. Six hours later, she texted me saying “see does see us being together because she did not feel the spark which would lead to a relationship”. I gave up. We did not speak each other more than a month. We were just avoiding each other. But, we are in the same graduate program, so we had to start work together, hence we started talk again. I was very cold for her. But, the more I was cold for her then she was putting more effort in the relation with me. Only one my text message to her and she was always ready to help me with everything. I could not understand why she was doing this if I was keeping a huge distance to her. She was saying how the friendship with me is important for her. How much she appreciates memories, support and help which I have given her; and how much she learned from me about life. I gave us the next chance. We started hanging out and study together every day before we had the last exam. We were more open with each other like never before. But, after the last exam, which we had, she just left the classroom. She did not say anything to me. When I texted her with question if she wants to celebrate the last exam and whole work which we have done together, she said she is going to meet her friends. I was upset with her because on the next day she was going to another country, and she even did not find any time to say goodbye to me. After few days later I got very private email from her. She said she believes our relationship is extremely unhealthy because there is no middle ground between us, only highs and lows, and summer will give us time to individually evaluation if we can make it healthy one; also she needs a break from our friendship.

 

It has been one month since I got her email. I have not responded because I do not have any idea what to do with us. But, she is coming back in one month.

 

I will be very appreciate for any opinion and another point of view. I hope it will help me to understand better her and the situation.

Edited June 25, 2015 by macq

[Justanaverageguy]

The type of relationship dynamic you described above is very common. Guy wants girl badly. Girl resists and plays hard to get. The oldest story that has ever been written

 

With this dynamic it is actually the fact you want her so badly that "blocks" you from having her. The overwhelming desire to "have her" is conveyed on a subconscious level. In your interactions, conversations, texts and your thoughts which are conveyed through body language. This makes the girl feel like your attraction is stronger then hers and a little overwhelming. Out of balance. EG: You telling her its a relationship or nothing .... doesn't allow her to actually "choose" to be with you. She feels like the choice has been taken away from her. And people don't like to feel forced. They resist any time they feel forced into doing something. Even if its something they actually want.

 

What is frequently seen in these situations where a guy longs for and pursues a girl intently for a long period of time is - he eventually gives up and moves on. Maybe even starts seeing someone else. It is then that the girl he was chasing suddenly changes her mind and wants him. I'm sure you have actually seen this dynamic happen before maybe even experienced it yourself. So what is it that changes .... why does she suddenly change her mind ? Well now it is the opposite of the current situation. Instead of feeling like she is being forced to choose you. She is now denied the option to choose you. So now she wants it. People always want what they can't have which is part of the reason you want her

 

My advice is not actually to go out and start dating someone to make her jealous (that's stupid and normally ends badly). But it is to pull back from pursuing her so intently. Stop insisting it is all or nothing. Make a decision that you like her .... but she has indicated that she doesn't want a relationship and just accept that. This is easier said then done - you have to actually really consciously choose to be ok with not being with her and just being friends. Let it go of wanting her and start focusing energy elsewhere. Tell here that you had a really good last 2 months to clear your head and you decided that she was right and that a relationship between the two of you was not meant to be. Tell her you still want to be friends and hope you can still catch up from time to time. I would also advise you to leave your options open with other women. And don't just say these things but go on acting the same way pursuing her. Start thinking of her and treating he like she is just any other friend. Don't be rude or ignore her - just normal friendly like you are with other friends.

 

You may be suprised at how quickly her position of "resisting" changes when you stop "chasing" so hard

Edited June 25, 2015 by Justanaverageguy

[eye of the storm]

I see where Justanaverageguy does have a point. But usually in those instances its lets date, lets be friends and back and forth.

 

In this case she has been honest all along. She wants friendship. She does not want to date or be in a relationship with you. Why? Who knows. But she has been clear. Believe her. If you want romantic relationship you need to move on. Just because you love her does not give you any rights to her.

 

I am sorry. If you cannot lower your expectations and desires with her, you need to delete her and move on. Having the desire to have more with her and staying in her circle and watching her date and have relationships will only cause you pain. And your pain will cause her problems.

 

The kindest thing to do is to just let it go.

[GoBlue]

I do not believe that she is "playing hard to get" at all. I believe that she has made her feelings very clear and has maintained the same approach throughout. The one thing that you can never do is force someone to have an attraction for you. I believe wholeheartedly in taking people at their word. She sees you as a friend and to believe that anything else will ever come about wouldn't be very wise. Another issue you have to deal with, most women (especially in America) don't feel comfortable when a man thinks they are "in love" after two dates. You are going to have to decide if you can be a "friend" to this person or not. If you are gonna get upset every time you see her with other men you are going to have to figure out how to handle this. I know what it's like to have romantic feelings for someone who only sees you as a friend. It's hard, awkward, and very frustrating. The best way to deal with it is to come to terms with the fact that you will never be more than a friend. Hang in there, you will find someone. My thoughts are with you.

[macq]

Thank you for your response. You really help me to understand the situation. I have experiences with women from my country, but she acts in completely different way, which is not fully understandable for me.

 

When I like some girl and she wants to hang out with me, I always try to build deep emotional connection with her. Base on this, I try to build true friendship with her and see in which direction the relation will go. I can say, with her we had a deep connection. What was always confused for me, were her actions. She definitely did not treat me in the same way as her other friends. Sometimes she was showing me how I was unique for her; sometimes she was just ignoring me. For example, before the exam (which I mentioned before) we had a party in our department. She came with me, during the party she was just “glued” to me, she did not let me even talk with other people. After this, everybody in the department thinks we are a couple. But, after the exam she just escaped from me. I really was trying to be a friend for her, and maybe I understand friendship in different way than Americans, but true friend does not act in this way. True friends confront with each other when something is wrong, not escape.

 

The situation is not so easy, because we will see each other for the next three of four years. I am trying somehow figure this out, and prepare myself for meeting with her. I agree I have to move on, and I am in the process of moving on. How can I give her to understand in nice way that we cannot be friends, and we will never be?

[eye of the storm]

How can I give her to understand in nice way that we cannot be friends, and we will never be?

 

Send her an email and say that you really do care about her. But it is obvious that she does not feel the same way. Because of that you and she will be friendly but will not be interacting anymore as friends. Let her know that it is just too painful for you.

 

Be honest and don't blame.

 

I hope you are able to move on soon.

[Justanaverageguy]

I am trying somehow figure this out, and prepare myself for meeting with her. I agree I have to move on, and I am in the process of moving on. How can I give her to understand in nice way that we cannot be friends, and we will never be?

 

So I take it not willing to try out my advice of simply backing off and being friends??

 

You said that regardless you are going to have to see her and interact with her with your school so why not just play it cool and be friends. I still think you are actually trying to use "we can't be friends" as a form of emotional blackmail. Again to try and "force" her into accepting more.

[joseb]

OP, do you want to be just friends with her? Can you handle it?

I don't think you can.

 

To be fair she has been pretty clear she does not fell any kind of spark for you.

You have to respect that.

 

If you want a romantic relationship you will have to move on and find it with someone else. And staying friends with her might hobble that.

[macq]

So I take it not willing to try out my advice of simply backing off and being friends??

 

You said that regardless you are going to have to see her and interact with her with your school so why not just play it cool and be friends. I still think you are actually trying to use "we can't be friends" as a form of emotional blackmail. Again to try and "force" her into accepting more.

 

I have to say – you hit the nail! You help me realized where I did a mistake. I need to say something. When she rejected me third time, I told her we can be friends, and we were for the last month before she left. During this time, she lost my attention (I was not putting any effort into relation with her). It caused she was acting in the same way as you said in your post (she wanted to have what she did not have). There is a lot of more and less important details which I am skipping here. Nevertheless, I was cool for her and when she left me without saying goodbye, when she sent to me those emails, I was just shocked. I thought we were friends but she was speaking to me like we were in a relationship. In this way, she has proved to me I was for her more than a friend. Of course, I may be wrong but I do not want to spend more time thinking about her and the whole situation. What I am going to do is exactly what you have written here

My advice is not actually to go out and start dating someone to make her jealous (that's stupid and normally ends badly). But it is to pull back from pursuing her so intently. Stop insisting it is all or nothing. Make a decision that you like her .... but she has indicated that she doesn't want a relationship and just accept that. This is easier said then done - you have to actually really consciously choose to be ok with not being with her and just being friends. Let it go of wanting her and start focusing energy elsewhere. Tell here that you had a really good last 2 months to clear your head and you decided that she was right and that a relationship between the two of you was not meant to be. Tell her you still want to be friends and hope you can still catch up from time to time. I would also advise you to leave your options open with other women. And don't just say these things but go on acting the same way pursuing her. Start thinking of her and treating he like she is just any other friend. Don't be rude or ignore her - just normal friendly like you are with other friends.

I learned a lot from you!!

Thank all of you for your time and advices!

Edited June 26, 2015 by macq

[Justanaverageguy]

Of course, I may be wrong but I do not want to spend more time thinking about her and the whole situation. What I am going to do is exactly what you have written here

 

I learned a lot from you!!

Thank all of you for your time and advices!

 

Great - I hope it helps.

 

Also just an additional tip. My advice sounds really simple .... but it is actually quite hard to implement when you have strong feelings for the girl. It requires you to be able to monitor and control your emotions when you are around her. Many guys think they can follow this advice but as soon as the girl shows the slightest bit of interest in them they go slipping straight back into their old "chasing" ways. It requires self control on your part to "stop" the thought patterns that lead to this behavior. When you find yourself wanting to obsess about her or think about what she is feeling and whether now she wants a relationship you need to not let those thoughts take over. When you feel those emotions start to come up inside you don't block them. Just be aware they are there. Monitor them and choose not to indulge in them or act on them. They will subside away if you let them. Like I said the aim is to get to the position where you do just treat her like a friend because ..... that's what she said she wants right ?

 

An additional warning. Often girls in this position sense the change and try to move you back into the pursuing role by giving you bread crumbs or trying to bait you into it. Why ? Because she likes the position of being wanted and chased. Her latest private email to you after you had done what she wanted and acted like a friend is a perfect example of this. If she was happy being friends ... she wouldn't have sent this email because that's exactly what you were doing for the period before she sent it. Even worse was the email asking if you were upset she was with another guy. She is trying to light the fire again and wants to get you chasing her. So again don't indulge in her attempts to get you to start thinking about chasing her (which you did after you got her email). Don't take the bait she is setting and get sucked into a discussion about the relationship and telling her we can't be friends because you want more. Instead do the exact opposite. In a really polite way just move the discussion back to being friends. Like she wanted.

 

I would actually reply to her latest email and just say - That you are a little confused. That initially it was difficult for you to just be friends because you previously had feelings. But the last month before she left you felt that everything was going really well between you as just friends. Say that you didn't think the relationship was unhealthy or that there was highs and lows. It felt like you had managed to find a good middle ground and you hope things can be similar when she gets back so that you can stay friends. Then maybe change the subject and talk about what you have been up to on summer break and ask her how her holiday was. Issue neutralized

 

If she wants to talk about a "relationship" make her be the one to bring it up and only indulge in it if she is actually serious about wanting more and states this explicitly. Not some crap about an "unhealthy relationship" "highs and lows" "being upset about another guy" or nonsense like that.

 

The great part about this strategy is from my experience it is by far the most effective way to bring a girl in the hard to get position back to the point of actually wanting a relationship with you. It is however not fool proof. Maybe things don't work out. The beauty then is it also leaves you in the best position to move on with your life. You don't waste more time and energy obsessing over a girl who said she is not interested. So it is a win - win.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Justanaverageguy

[Justanaverageguy]

Send her an email and say that you really do care about her. But it is obvious that she does not feel the same way. Because of that you and she will be friendly but will not be interacting anymore as friends. Let her know that it is just too painful for you.

 

Be honest and don't blame.

 

I hope you are able to move on soon.

 

As per my post above don't do this. Don't tell her about your feelings or that it is too painful to be friends. You have already done that 3 times and we know how it ended. This is jumping back into the discussion about a relationship which is something she said she didn't want.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Justanaverageguy

[StanMusial]

In the USA it is called "the friend zone". Maybe that is not a thing in your native culture.

[macq]

Great - I hope it helps.

 

The great part about this strategy is from my experience it is by far the most effective way to bring a girl in the hard to get position back to the point of actually wanting a relationship with you. It is however not fool proof. Maybe things don't work out. The beauty then is it also leaves you in the best position to move on with your life. You don't waste more time and energy obsessing over a girl who said she is not interested. So it is a win - win.

 

Yes it helps me a lot! I will remember about your advices and I will use them definitely. I have never had any closer relation with American girl. I was trying “play games” with her like with girls from my country but it did not work as I wanted (those games are different in Europe than here, but there are some similarities). I sent an email to her using your advices, but I do not expect anything. Right now I have a distance to her and the situation so I am just trying understand “how it has been working”. Maybe for this girl is too late to change this relation but in the future I will meet another girl, and I will know what to do.

 

How do you think, why do American girls play games in this way?

[angel.eyes]

She is not playing games. She has been very clear from the moment she realized you "liked" her that she would never see you as a romantic option. Since you have romantic feelings for her, you can't be a platonic friend. Neither of you will get what you want out of this.

 

Save yourself frustration and, when she does start dating other guys, mental anguish, and stop trying to be her friend. It's a doomed effort.

 

Focus the time you're spending with her instead on finding an actual girlfriend.

[Justanaverageguy]

How do you think, why do American girls play games in this way?

 

So first thing to be aware of is that I don't actually think this girl is consciously playing "games" with you. Understand that her behavior is merely a reaction to the game you decided play. That game is called chase. Your own behavior got you into this position .... not hers. Most guys don't get that. They think its the girls fault. That she is deliberately messing with them, leading them on or something. But the reality is is she is just reacting to your own behavior.

 

To give you a really basic example of how this works. When you approach someone on the street with a smile ... they will usually smile back. Your behavior caused this. They "reacted" to your smile by smiling back. At the opposite end of the spectrum if you approach someone on the street aggressively then they will likely get angry back and want to fight. They reacted to your initially aggressive behavior. Cause and effect.

 

Now depending on the situation the reaction can be slightly different but everyone understands that idea. That your behavior essentially causes and dictates the behavior of the other person you approach. It is no different for relationships and approaching girls. When you initially asked this girl out she responded and said "she was not ready for a relationship". This is when everything went sideways. At this time you had options on how you wanted to react to her initial rejection. You could have accepted that response played it cool and just remained friends. Cut off all contact with her and just decided to look for another girl. In this case you decided to do what ?

 

You decided to chase her, and it sounds like pretty persistently over a long period of time. When a man "chases" a girl she almost automatically has to run away. Its the way the game .... that you decided to play .... works. Playing hard to get is the normal reaction to chasing behavior just like it is normal to smile back when someone smiles at you. Now if you don't want to play that game anymore you have to change your behavior to get a different reaction from her.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Justanaverageguy

[macq]

Yes, I know this mechanism. In Physic this is called: “action and reaction”. It has application not only in Physic as we see. Okay, I was chasing her for a long period of time. But, the last month before she left, I was really acting with her like a good friend. I did even more, I clear it up and I said to her, we are cool friends, I did not play any game with her, I was just good friend like with my other friends. Why? I knew she does want to be in a relationship with me so I did not chase her anymore (because it did not make any sense to me). But, as you said:

Her latest private email to you after you had done what she wanted and acted like a friend is a perfect example of this. If she was happy being friends ... she wouldn't have sent this email because that's exactly what you were doing for the period before she sent it.

So where is the logic?

[Justanaverageguy]

Yes, I know this mechanism. In Physic this is called: “action and reaction”. It has application not only in Physic as we see. Okay, I was chasing her for a long period of time. But, the last month before she left, I was really acting with her like a good friend. I did even more, I clear it up and I said to her, we are cool friends, I did not play any game with her, I was just good friend like with my other friends. Why? I knew she does want to be in a relationship with me so I did not chase her anymore (because it did not make any sense to me). But, as you said:

 

So where is the logic?

 

The logic is self evident. By you changing your behavior - stopping the chase and treating her like a friend - her reaction also changed. Different action gave a different reaction. You can clearly see that. You weren't forcing and pushing as hard for more so what happened ? She stopped "resisting" and running away and actually took a step towards you. A small one but a step none the less. The thing is you almost slipped straight back into the same pattern of demanding and pushing for more which would result in her resisting and running away again.

 

I said it at the top of the post - when you want a girl this badly - when your desire for her is too strong you actually "block" yourself from getting her. She can feel it and it is impossible for the other person to match that level of desire. You grasp for her and push too hard to get her.

 

Relationships happen when desire of both parties is balanced. You need to allow her to come her 50% of the way on her own instead of trying to force her to do it. When you take a step back it allows her the opportunity take a step forward. Think of it like you are both on different ends of a see-saw and you need to meet her in the middle. If you run straight to the middle then she can't get there because now all the weight is on her end of the see saw and it tilts too far in that direction. If you move back to a similar spot to her then the see-saw becomes balanced again and you both now have the option to slowly move to the middle together at the same pace. That won't always happen .... maybe you just aren't meant to be but it gives you the best chance. Her emails and letters indicate that their is at least potential for something more.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Justanaverageguy

[macq]

One more time thank you for your help Justanaverageguy. I really appreciate it. I still have some questions to you. I would like to exchange private messages with you, but unfortunately I am not Establish member.

[Justanaverageguy]

No problem ... I think you just have to post at least 10 or 15 messages to post PMs