Sam Harris Knows God

[writergal]

It's apparent I don't believe in a judging God or a specific creator. But it still puzzles me why anything is here at all and why it all dies. What is the point of life if death follows?

 

Oh ok. I thought you were claiming to believe in God. Wasn't very clear.

 

I think the point of life is to accept that everything alive eventually dies (ceases to exist)). Nothing alive lives forever. The point of life is up to each person's perception of how to live their life. And really, why worry about 'the point' since no one knows that answer. Many surmise they know that they know the meaning of life (the Pope, Sam Harris, Monty Python).

 

But nobody really knows.

 

Going back to the title of your thread, Sam Harris knows 'God.' How so? Is he a believer of Spiritual Naturalism like poet and philosopher Henry David Thoreau who was a Darwinian Naturalist? Why are encounters with nature tied to religion or to spirituality for that matter? And, is spirituality different from religion? If religion is belief in someone else's worldview, does that mean that spirituality is belief in your own worldview? Your own experience? Are the two separate? How does Sam Harris know God? Via nature? He's an Atheist so how can he believe in God?

[123321]

What does it take to be God?

 

This harkens back to the "Ex Machina" thread and the "Are we a simulation" thread.

 

If I had to bet, I would say we are probably living in a created reality, and that is based on fact, not emotion. Does that mean there is a God?

 

Define God.

[Brigit1]

Oh ok. I thought you were claiming to believe in God. Wasn't very clear.

 

I think the point of life is to accept that everything alive eventually dies (ceases to exist)). Nothing alive lives forever. The point of life is up to each person's perception of how to live their life. And really, why worry about 'the point' since no one knows that answer. Many surmise they know that they know the meaning of life (the Pope, Sam Harris, Monty Python).

 

But nobody really knows.

 

Going back to the title of your thread, Sam Harris knows 'God.' How so? Is he a believer of Spiritual Naturalism like poet and philosopher Henry David Thoreau who was a Darwinian Naturalist? Why are encounters with nature tied to religion or to spirituality for that matter? And, is spirituality different from religion? If religion is belief in someone else's worldview, does that mean that spirituality is belief in your own worldview? Your own experience? Are the two separate? How does Sam Harris know God? Via nature? He's an Atheist so how can he believe in God?

 

Sam Harris states:

 

"Some people define God as pure consciousness or being synonymous with the laws of nature."

 

This is (I think) what he believes which would mean we all know God since we are all conscious and experience the laws of nature.

 

He is very spiritual and moral and apparently needs to be in hiding for his own safety.

[Brigit1]

What does it take to be God?

 

This harkens back to the "Ex Machina" thread and the "Are we a simulation" thread.

 

If I had to bet, I would say we are probably living in a created reality, and that is based on fact, not emotion. Does that mean there is a God?

 

Define God.

 

I can only define what I believe is God which of course may or may not be true. To me, God is the life energy which runs thru everyone and everything and lets life continue as we know it. It is neither good nor bad but is. Why "it is at all" for me is the bigger mystery.

[amaysngrace]

Sam Harris states:

 

"Some people define God as pure consciousness or being synonymous with the laws of nature."

 

That would make him a deist then, not an atheist. Or someone who follows Darwinism actually.

 

Either way, he's smart to capitalize off those with little or weak faith.

[amaysngrace]

If someone tells me they believe in God, go to Church and pray I don't fear them.

 

It's the mass destruction of religious fundamentalist groups that I fear.

 

Why fear such a minority?

 

See that's the one thing faithful people don't have is fear. At least I know I don't.

 

I've been to funerals where family members had little or no faith and I feel sorry for them because they have nothing but anger. They are like lost souls.

[writergal]

What does it take to be God?

 

This harkens back to the "Ex Machina" thread and the "Are we a simulation" thread.

 

If I had to bet, I would say we are probably living in a created reality, and that is based on fact, not emotion. Does that mean there is a God?

 

Define God.

 

Ah, I love physics! Too bad I stink at math or I would have become a theoretical physicist or neuro-scientist.

 

We are indeed a simulation of our own creation. People create their own realities. It's very mind-bending to think about it. Nothing is real. It's all a big illusion. We create our own physical realities and abide by the rules we create for ourselves. Individualized consciousness determines who we think that we are in relation to the illusion of the physical world around us. If you limit your thinking, you actually limit your external circumstances. Or vice versa. I wanted to go on a 10 day vacation to the West Coast on limited money yet I made sure that it happened. How? I scrimped and saved to make it become a reality.

 

How we create the reality we experience

 

Sam Harris states:

 

"Some people define God as pure consciousness or being synonymous with the laws of nature."

 

This is (I think) what he believes which would mean we all know God since we are all conscious and experience the laws of nature.

 

He is very spiritual and moral and apparently needs to be in hiding for his own safety.

 

He's in hiding? Why? I definitely believe in nature but I don't associate religion to it. I associate a feeling of transcendence with nature instead. I don't really feel 'spiritual' about nature. Just more in awe of how nature works, and how we are interconnected as a species with nature.

 

In his book, Moral LandscapeHarris argues, “I see nothing irrational about seeking the states of mind that lie at the core of many religions. Compassion, awe, devotion and feelings of oneness are surely among the most valuable experiences a person can have,” he writes.

 

And in this Newsweek interview, the reporter notes:

 

The God Harris doesn’t believe in is, as he puts it, a “supernatural power” and “a personal deity who hears prayers and takes an interest in how people live.”

This God and its subscribers he finds unreasonable. But he understands that many people—especially in progressive corners of organized religion and among the “spiritual but not religious”—often mean something else.

 

They equate God with “love” or “justice” or “singing in church” or “that feeling I get on a walk in the woods,” or even “the awesome aspects of existence I’ll never understand.”

 

Harris definitely doesn't believe in a religious 'God.'

[Brigit1]

Why fear such a minority?

 

See that's the one thing faithful people don't have is fear. At least I know I don't.

 

I've been to funerals where family members had little or no faith and I feel sorry for them because they have nothing but anger. They are like lost souls.

 

Are you asking me why I should fear someone who may blow me up with a bomb because I don't believe in their religion?

[Brigit1]

Ah, I love physics! Too bad I stink at math or I would have become a theoretical physicist or neuro-scientist.

 

We are indeed a simulation of our own creation. People create their own realities. It's very mind-bending to think about it. Nothing is real. It's all a big illusion. We create our own physical realities and abide by the rules we create for ourselves. Individualized consciousness determines who we think that we are in relation to the illusion of the physical world around us. If you limit your thinking, you actually limit your external circumstances. Or vice versa. I wanted to go on a 10 day vacation to the West Coast on limited money yet I made sure that it happened. How? I scrimped and saved to make it become a reality.

 

How we create the reality we experience

 

 

 

He's in hiding? Why? I definitely believe in nature but I don't associate religion to it. I associate a feeling of transcendence with nature instead. I don't really feel 'spiritual' about nature. Just more in awe of how nature works, and how we are interconnected as a species with nature.

 

In his book, Moral LandscapeHarris argues, “I see nothing irrational about seeking the states of mind that lie at the core of many religions. Compassion, awe, devotion and feelings of oneness are surely among the most valuable experiences a person can have,” he writes.

 

And in this Newsweek interview, the reporter notes:

 

 

 

Harris definitely doesn't believe in a religious 'God.'

 

According to this interview he travels with bodyguards and needs to live in an undisclosed location.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA3EPdaCnXs

[amaysngrace]

Are you asking me why I should fear someone who may blow me up with a bomb because I don't believe in their religion?

 

Yes. Do you know what the odds of that happening are? About the same as you being struck by an asteroid.

[writergal]

Why fear such a minority?

 

See that's the one thing faithful people don't have is fear. At least I know I don't.

 

I've been to funerals where family members had little or no faith and I feel sorry for them because they have nothing but anger. They are like lost souls.

 

Faithful people don't have fear? Oh my that's a good one! Fear is the main reason used by all radical religious groups and cults to murder innocent people in the name of their own God. Fear is what allows religious leaders to control the masses of their followers. Fear is the tool that is used to control people into believing supernatural consequences for their actions on earth. Fear is what ISIS and Scientology and even Christianity uses as a tool to control and manipulate people into believing and doing things a normal person with common sense would never believe or do.

 

I understand that you believe in God but what I don't appreciate is the you mock Atheism. By the way, mocking is a fear based response. Why do you fear Atheists so much? It's not like Atheist groups are going around the world murdering people in the name of 'no religious belief system'.

[Brigit1]

Yes. Do you know what the odds of that happening are? About the same as you being struck by an asteroid.

 

If I decided to take a trip to Israel or Egypt I bet my chances would be pretty decent.

[amaysngrace]

Faithful people don't have fear? Oh my that's a good one! Fear is the main reason used by all radical religious groups and cults to murder innocent people in the name of their own God. Fear is what allows religious leaders to control the masses of their followers. Fear is the tool that is used to control people into believing supernatural consequences for their actions on earth. Fear is what ISIS and Scientology and even Christianity uses as a tool to control and manipulate people into believing and doing things a normal person with common sense would never believe or do.

 

I understand that you believe in God but what I don't appreciate is the you mock Atheism. By the way, mocking is a fear based response. Why do you fear Atheists so much? It's not like Atheist groups are going around the world murdering people in the name of 'no religious belief system'.

 

You are the only one mocking anything dear and the one who is afraid as well.

 

That much is evident.

[writergal]

You are the only one mocking anything dear and the one who is afraid as well.

 

That much is evident.

 

What am I mocking and what am I afraid of? Please explain that to me.

[Brigit1]

Faithful people don't have fear? Oh my that's a good one! Fear is the main reason used by all radical religious groups and cults to murder innocent people in the name of their own God. Fear is what allows religious leaders to control the masses of their followers. Fear is the tool that is used to control people into believing supernatural consequences for their actions on earth. Fear is what ISIS and Scientology and even Christianity uses as a tool to control and manipulate people into believing and doing things a normal person with common sense would never believe or do.

 

I understand that you believe in God but what I don't appreciate is the you mock Atheism. By the way, mocking is a fear based response. Why do you fear Atheists so much? It's not like Atheist groups are going around the world murdering people in the name of 'no religious belief system'.

 

Sam Harris states the real reason people need religion is due to fear of death. Sounds about right. If religion is false and there isn't a heaven and/or afterlife then death is very scary. Fear of death makes people neurotic and depressed.

 

Unless you see life differently and that is accepting the present moment as all there is and not expecting it to be more than it is.

[writergal]

Sam Harris states the real reason people need religion is due to fear of death. Sounds about right. If religion is false and there isn't a heaven and/or afterlife then death is very scary. Fear of death makes people neurotic and depressed.

 

Unless you see life differently and that is accepting the present moment as all there is and not expecting it to be more than it is.

 

That makes sense. But what kind of people spend all day every day thinking about their mortality? Seems obsessive. Why do people focus so much on 'what ifs' where death is concerned? It's a fact of life because it's the way nature designed every living creature. Just accept that it will happen to you, try to live a good life and be present in your life, and when your time comes, be grateful for the fact that you got to be alive. Why do people need religion in order to think like that?

[amaysngrace]

What am I mocking and what am I afraid of? Please explain that to me.

 

Fear is what ISIS and Scientology and even Christianity uses as a tool to control and manipulate people into believing and doing things a normal person with common sense would never believe or do.

 

Religion promotes delusion, murders people and destroys cultures in its name. Christian missionaries are essentially colonists, set out to destroy other cultures in the name of good will, because the goal of Christianity is to assimilate the world and every culture into its delusional belief system.

 

Like the Borg from Star Trek, Christian missionaries assimilate indigenous cultures by breaking them down to the point where only remnants of the destroyed culture remain, like relics in an Indiana Jones movie, set behind alarmed glass in a museum.

 

Religion is a tool created by humans to control other humans. People who are brainwashed into following religious cults, or radical religious groups, will kill other people blindly, because they believe they are doing it for Allah or God.

 

I think the real reason that a large portion of the world's population defer to religion to give meaning to their lives, is because they are pressured into it by their family or friends, and because they are wishful thinkers, and really afraid of what happens to them after death. People who are indoctrinated into their religious belief system rarely if ever leave it, because it provides them with a comfort that they believe they can't get from other sources. People who believe in religion need the reassurance that some 'God' and an afterlife exists.

 

Also, religious people are brainwashed to believe that Atheists are immoral and a threat to the stable social order. You have to wonder why there is such an anti-atheist bigotry with religion, especially a religion that touts acceptance and love for humanity the way Christianity does (lies). That's why I find religion so hypocritical.

 

Fear of radical religious groups like ISIS that go around and murder people randomly is not an irrational fear Amay. I think you're reaching my friend, because you know that people who fear groups like that are not irrational people. The irrational people are the ones who believe that a man lives in the sky, who created the universe and who supposedly dictates who is good and bad based on a code of moral behavior he created, a man who lives in the sky with angels and whose angels fight demons who work for an evil guy who lives below the guy in the sky. That's supernatural silliness that grown adults with chemistry degrees (the Pope) believe and tout as being real. That is irrational. People who believe in religion are irrational. Sorry. But it's true.

 

I rest my case.

[Brigit1]

That makes sense. But what kind of people spend all day every day thinking about their mortality? Seems obsessive. Why do people focus so much on 'what ifs' where death is concerned? It's a fact of life because it's the way nature designed every living creature. Just accept that it will happen to you, try to live a good life and be present in your life, and when your time comes, be grateful for the fact that you got to be alive. Why do people need religion in order to think like that?

 

Because with God/religion there are answers to suffering. And once someone dies you get to believe they're tucked away in a nice safe better place and you get to see them again. Take that away from people and they get despondent.

[amaysngrace]

Because with God/religion there are answers to suffering. And once someone dies you get to believe they're tucked away in a nice safe better place and you get to see them again. Take that away from people and they get despondent.

 

Can you prove that there's no Heaven any more than I can prove that there is one?

 

No. You cannot. And neither can your next husband but he sure is getting rich pretending that he has all the answers.

 

I hope he is at least charitable.

[writergal]

I rest my case.

 

How exactly did you rest your case?

[Brigit1]

Can you prove that there's no Heaven any more than I can prove that there is one?

 

No. You cannot. And neither can your next husband but he sure is getting rich pretending that he has all the answers.

 

I hope he is at least charitable.

 

He isn't pretending he has answers he's making rational points on the destructive quality of religion in our modern world. At one point in society religion might have been needed to form organization out of chaos. That need has passed.

[writergal]

Because with God/religion there are answers to suffering. And once someone dies you get to believe they're tucked away in a nice safe better place and you get to see them again. Take that away from people and they get despondent.

 

Eh, careful don't speak for everyone. I feel the opposite way. While I'm sad about the people I've lost in my life, I don't sit there daydreaming that they're in a safer, better place, or delude myself into thinking that I'll see them again. That doesn't comfort me at all. Ew, no.

 

What comforts me is that I am grateful for the time I got to spend with them in the first place, and they live on in my memories and others' memories, stories and photographs. But they do not exist on another plane as ghosts. But, I realize that some people need to believe in an afterlife to cope with the loss of a loved one. It's just not how I'm wired.

[amaysngrace]

How exactly did you rest your case?

 

Forget it. I'm not going through every derogatory thing you've said about religious people in this thread again.

[writergal]

Yes. Do you know what the odds of that happening are? About the same as you being struck by an asteroid.

 

Tell that to the victims of ISIS who murder random groups of people every day. Or tell that to the Boston marathon victims, who were killed or injured by the Tsarnaev Brothers. Every day, someone, somewhere is being hunted down and killed by a religious nutcase. Oh, and the earth is struck by dirt and particles every day. Mostly too small to be an end-of-life-event.

[writergal]

Forget it. I'm not going through every derogatory thing you've said about religious people in this thread again.

 

Derogatory? How so? Religion does use fear to control people. That's a fact. This priest admits it.

 

And my mentioning all the religious radical groups like ISIS who murder people in the name of religion is also a fact, and isn't derogatory.