Do men genuninely value being "no drama"?

[xxoo]

Conflict avoidance can be just as destructive to a relationship as a penchant for drama.

 

When I was raising my first toddler, the dramatic outbursts of anger were....impressive. I read many books, and sought much guidance, on how to handle a "spirited" child, how to teach self control, how to teach appropriate expression of negative emotions.

 

And that's where I got stuck. How DO you teach a child to appropriately express negative emotions? First, you can not teach something that you can not do yourself. So, in my late 20s, as a mother, I challenged myself and I learned. I think I did pretty well, because that spirited toddler is now a headstrong teenager, and dramatic outbursts are nearly nonexistent--from both of us But that doesn't mean that conflict is rare.

 

After having done a lot of reading, and a lot of work, in this area, I can sniff out conflict avoidance and drama fairly easily, and it repels me. I don't invite that sort of energy into my life. People gotta do their thing, but I don't have to be party to it.

[Taramere]

Yes I was one of those people. I see conflict as a necessity to achieve growth. My definition of conflict isn't screaming and shouting, however. It's disagreement which is very healthy and shouldn't be stifled. If you never disagree, you will never have a fulfilling relationship since your voice won't be heard. I think sometimes people need to learn how to assert themselves rather than avoid confrontation.

 

There's got to be some element of conflict at work before you can get a wide picture of a situation. Most controversial subjects can give rise to more than one valid, intelligent perspective. I often argue, for instance, with the lady who owns the firm I do consultancy work with.

 

They're not nasty arguments (she can be a bully at times, but in a "domineering, forceful personality" sort of way rather than in any sort of sadistic or ill intended manner). We're quite different in our temperaments - though occasionally I'll spot similarities. She thinks I'm often too soft or "nice" and I find myself having to defend my right to be me at times. We've had quite a few conflicts, and at times it has got heated...but by this point enough trust has developed that on the whole the conflicts tend to have reasonably productive outcomes.

 

When trust isn't there, conflict can be hugely difficult to face and resolve....and I think that tends to be where drama (rather than healthy conflict) ensues. Also, if one or both parties are feeling very raw emotionally - for whatever reason - it's almost bound to result in drama rather than healthy conflict ensuing. But then, sometimes life does leave people feeling emotionally raw about things.

 

A bit of drama here and there is inevitable really. So it pays to learn how to manage it when it does crop up, to look at our own role within it and to develop the discipline to pull back into adult mode when it's going too far - and take responsibility for any bad behaviour.

[Emilia]

There's got to be some element of conflict at work before you can get a wide picture of a situation. Most controversial subjects can give rise to more than one valid, intelligent perspective. I often argue, for instance, with the lady who owns the firm I do consultancy work with.

 

They're not nasty arguments (she can be a bully at times, but in a "domineering, forceful personality" sort of way rather than in any sort of sadistic or ill intended manner). We're quite different in our temperaments - though occasionally I'll spot similarities. She thinks I'm often too soft or "nice" and I find myself having to defend my right to be me at times. We've had quite a few conflicts, and at times it has got heated...but by this point enough trust has developed that on the whole the conflicts tend to have reasonably productive outcomes.

 

When trust isn't there, conflict can be hugely difficult to face and resolve....and I think that tends to be where drama (rather than healthy conflict) ensues. Also, if one or both parties are feeling very raw emotionally - for whatever reason - it's almost bound to result in drama rather than healthy conflict ensuing. But then, sometimes life does leave people feeling emotionally raw about things.

 

A bit of drama here and there is inevitable really. So it pays to learn how to manage it when it does crop up, to look at our own role within it and to develop the discipline to pull back into adult mode when it's going too far - and take responsibility for any bad behaviour.

My boss is very argumentative. He is definitely Marmite, it's how he refers to himself and can't argue with that. He is super passionate about what we do and while he can come across as intellectually arrogant, he in fact hates 'sloapy shoulders' as he puts it and he looks after the little people like us. He squeezed the highest pay possible out of the company for me.

 

I worked for him before and he was basically fired from that job for being too difficult. That company had very difficult office politics, it is run as someone's personal fiefdom. So it's understandable why my boss who does get anxious, was struggling there. However he is very talented and this place that's a household name has so far worked out for him very well. Might end up the same way for me.

 

We have a very honest relationship. It's not harmonious because we are both driven. Currently have EXACTLY the same goals and it works well. Who knows how it will pan out but if we were both the more complacent type, we wouldn't have the head of a 12 billion quid organisation paying attention to what we do.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Yes I was one of those people. I see conflict as a necessity to achieve growth. My definition of conflict isn't screaming and shouting, however. It's disagreement which is very healthy and shouldn't be stifled. If you never disagree, you will never have a fulfilling relationship since your voice won't be heard. I think sometimes people need to learn how to assert themselves rather than avoid confrontation.

 

When I say conflict, I mean you argue incessantly about things.

 

When you are calmly discussing things, it is not conflict. Of course ALL couples disagree on things.

 

Conflict is getting mad over something that is said in conversation that you storm out of a bar or restaurant and your boyfriend has to chase you down and calm you down.

 

Conflict is when your buddy texts you telling you what a b@tch his girlfriend is and he has to leave the house all day because they got into a fight over cleaning duties.

 

Conflict is basically any type of screaming match.

 

Yes, a lot of people like those things. I do not.

[JuneJulySeptember]

We have a very honest relationship. It's not harmonious because we are both driven. Currently have EXACTLY the same goals and it works well. Who knows how it will pan out but if we were both the more complacent type, we wouldn't have the head of a 12 billion quid organisation paying attention to what we do.

 

Yea, aggressive people who want the best in life create more conflict and drama. And it's pretty consistent with your post history. You won't date men who live with their parents, etc. If I wanted to get ahead at work, I'd have to step over some people and step on some toes. I've made a conscious decision that I don't want to do that. I also don't care about money.

 

Laid back people expect less out of life and live more for enjoying the little things and paying attention to how people are treated. I don't want to argue with my mate. I've dated women where being 25 minutes late turned into a screaming match, and I've dated women where being an hour late was treated calmly. So, I know the difference.

 

It's just different kind of people. My sister is actually a very high conflict/anal person. Unintentional mis-steps in what you say can set her off and get her angry.

 

I'm very, very laid back. It takes a lot to offend me and get me mad.

 

I'll also say that women in general create more drama because they are less laid back. It's typically the woman who starts the fight because the guy has been too apathetic/has said something unintentionally stupid.

 

Laid back women are rare, but they are around.

Edited June 28, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[Emilia]

When I say conflict, I mean you argue incessantly about things.

 

When you are calmly discussing things, it is not conflict. Of course ALL couples disagree on things.

 

Conflict is getting mad over something that is said in conversation that you storm out of a bar or restaurant and your boyfriend has to chase you down and calm you down.

 

Conflict is when your buddy texts you telling you what a b@tch his girlfriend is and he has to leave the house all day because they got into a fight over cleaning duties.

 

Conflict is basically any type of screaming match.

 

Yes, a lot of people like those things. I do not.

 

Yea, aggressive people who want the best in life create more conflict and drama. And it's pretty consistent with your post history. You won't date men who live with their parents, etc. If I wanted to get ahead at work, I'd have to step over some people and step on some toes. I've made a conscious decision that I don't want to do that. I also don't care about money.

 

Laid back people expect less out of life and live more for enjoying the little things and paying attention to how people are treated. I don't want to argue with my mate. I've dated women where being 25 minutes late turned into a screaming match, and I've dated women where being an hour late was treated calmly. So, I know the difference.

 

It's just different kind of people. My sister is actually a very high conflict/anal person. Unintentional mis-steps in what you say can set her off and get her angry.

 

I'm very, very laid back. It takes a lot to offend me and get me mad.

 

I'll also say that women in general create more drama because they are less laid back. It's typically the woman who starts the fight because the guy has been too apathetic/has said something unintentionally stupid.

 

Laid back women are rare, but they are around.

 

Your posts contradict themselves. You clearly see differences in view as threatening and you cannot handle disagreements. I see this sort of thing as lack of confidence: need for validation that your view is correct. While in fact many views can exist.

 

Labelling those that have very different views from yours as 'aggressive' is an aggresdive and dismissive move in itself. Again, lack of confidence and inability to resolve conflicts.

[mortensorchid]

That is all a bunch of nonsense to me. Men say that they want a "no drama woman" as much as women say they want "a nice guy". Both contradict themselves, but I think men do even more than women do. I was saying to a friend not too long ago why it is that women go for Bad Boys: Double standard.

 

 

Explain: As children, women tend to be disciplined more than men. Women are expected to behave and there is a "boys will be boys" kind of mentality with men. Women go for bad boys because we are living out our wants and needs to be bad through them.

 

 

Double standard for men: Men are pretty much allowed to do and say whatever they like. It is expected that they can sew their wild oats and hook up with the trashy girls, with the understanding that they will someday choose the virginal deb to ultimately marry. But not so much anymore. Now, men decide that they want trash rather than the good woman.

 

 

Sounds bitter? I am. Know how many guys I have been with who threw me over for trash instead of staying with me? ALL OF THEM. And it will in the future as well.

[barcode88]

I've found a lot of the people who say they hate drama actually secretly revel in it.

 

Anyways if someone never has any drama they're probably a bit bland. It's about keeping it in moderation.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Your posts contradict themselves. You clearly see differences in view as threatening and you cannot handle disagreements. I see this sort of thing as lack of confidence: need for validation that your view is correct. While in fact many views can exist.

 

Labelling those that have very different views from yours as 'aggressive' is an aggresdive and dismissive move in itself. Again, lack of confidence and inability to resolve conflicts.

 

No.

 

I don't. I think your view is fine. For you.

 

The end of this conflict.

 

And please don't belittle me. I think your way of living life is fine. Please don't me what is wrong with me. I didn't ask you.

 

It is actually in human nature (for whatever reason) to be argumentative and judgmental.

 

That is what this message board is about. But I'm trying to get away from that. I'm not sure why I responded to your post in the first place.

Edited June 28, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[Emilia]

No.

 

I don't. I think your view is fine. For you.

 

The end of this conflict.

 

And please don't belittle me. I think your way of living life is fine. Please don't me what is wrong with me. I didn't ask you.

 

Me? You started with the personal attack in your previous post, I merely responded as I'm sure I have the right to. I don't have to sit here being called aggressive with references to my previous posts. I have the right to respond. Further confirming what I have been saying all along: it's important to learn how to handle conflict rather than lash out and then be surprised when someone responds. I didn't ask for your views either but accepted that you have them and responded.

[preraph]

Well, "no drama" to men usually means their gf doesn't talk to them about things they don't want to talk about, so I really don't give a flip if they like drama or not. If I want to talk about something and the guy is avoiding it, to me, that's him being dramatic and also deceptive.

 

I've seen a lot of guys who were actually very dramatic date girls who were a lot like them but then when it was time to pick a wife, they picked a mild woman with blinders on who wouldn't challenge or question them so they could always get their way on everything. I think it's cowardly in the extreme. Then they cheated on her because they had nothing in common and she was boring to them.

 

I understand not being able to handle someone who maybe has just way more energy than you do, who wants to go out and be busy all the time when you just want to watch tv. But to me, that's not drama. That's just not having enough in common to stay together.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Me? You started with the personal attack in your previous post, I merely responded as I'm sure I have the right to. I don't have to sit here being called aggressive with references to my previous posts. I have the right to respond. Further confirming what I have been saying all along: it's important to learn how to handle conflict rather than lash out and then be surprised when someone responds. I didn't ask for your views either but accepted that you have them and responded.

 

It wasn't an attack. You just took it as such.

 

My sister is an aggressive person. She's very politically correct and she rides down hard on people who offend her. But she's a good woman.

 

Again, I'm trying to get away from the back and forth arguments here. So, once again, nothing meant in terms of criticism to you, so we can end this here? Thanks.

[Emilia]

Well, "no drama" to men usually means their gf doesn't talk to them about things they don't want to talk about, so I really don't give a flip if they like drama or not. If I want to talk about something and the guy is avoiding it, to me, that's him being dramatic and also deceptive.

 

I've seen a lot of guys who were actually very dramatic date girls who were a lot like them but then when it was time to pick a wife, they picked a mild woman with blinders on who wouldn't challenge or question them so they could always get their way on everything. I think it's cowardly in the extreme. Then they cheated on her because they had nothing in common and she was boring to them.

 

I understand not being able to handle someone who maybe has just way more energy than you do, who wants to go out and be busy all the time when you just want to watch tv. But to me, that's not drama. That's just not having enough in common to stay together.

 

Very true.

[toscaroscura]

Your posts contradict themselves. You clearly see differences in view as threatening and you cannot handle disagreements. I see this sort of thing as lack of confidence: need for validation that your view is correct. While in fact many views can exist.

 

Labelling those that have very different views from yours as 'aggressive' is an aggresdive and dismissive move in itself. Again, lack of confidence and inability to resolve conflicts.

 

It can fuel drama when one person can't handle any conflict or disagreement without calling it aggressive or dramatic. I find that "laid back" can often mean extremely avoidant or even passive aggressive. Suddenly the non-laid back person becomes "dramatic" in a constant attempt to just be heard without being dismissed.

 

It's a control move too. The "laid back" person gets to feel ever rational and in control, while their dismissive attitude drives their partner nuts.

[Emilia]

It wasn't an attack. You just took it as such.

 

My sister is an aggressive person. She's very politically correct and she rides down hard on people who offend her. But she's a good woman.

 

Again, I'm trying to get away from the back and forth arguments here. So, once again, nothing meant in terms of criticism to you, so we can end this here? Thanks.

Not really. You don't get to pick and choose. Get critical then take offence at the response and play it down as the other person's 'misunderstanding'. You can always close down a discussuion by not responding. However what you cannot do is to call out a person and try to shut them down when you don't like what they are saying. If you do not like conflict, don't start one.

[JuneJulySeptember]

It can fuel drama when one person can't handle any conflict or disagreement without calling it aggressive or dramatic. I find that "laid back" can often mean extremely avoidant or even passive aggressive. Suddenly the non-laid back person becomes "dramatic" in a constant attempt to just be heard without being dismissed.

 

It's a control move too. The "laid back" person gets to feel ever rational and in control, while their dismissive attitude drives their partner nuts.

 

Yes, but once again.

 

There's either conflict or there's not. My 'laid back' attitude might drive you nuts, but there's a woman out there that I've dated where there was not conflict over it. And that's what I want.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Not really. You don't get to pick and choose. Get critical then take offence at the response and play it down as the other person's 'misunderstanding'. You can always close down a discussuion by not responding. However what you cannot do is to call out a person and try to shut them down when you don't like what they are saying. If you do not like conflict, don't start one.

 

OK. I see. My apologies. I was probably out of line to call you aggressive and truth be told I shouldn't have responded to your post.

 

My bad. Thanks.

[Taramere]

When I say conflict, I mean you argue incessantly about things.

 

When you are calmly discussing things, it is not conflict. Of course ALL couples disagree on things.

 

Conflict can mean both. It can be a heated, angry argument - or it an be a disagreement. Conflicting needs, conflicting beliefs, conflicting desires...

 

Conflict is at the heart of creativity. Actually, drama is often a bit aspect of creativity too. A lot of the best writers and composers have been very conflicted individuals who expressed those conflicts in their creative output.

 

The best approach to conflict resolution tends to involve calm discussion and ground rules about approaches (eg abusing, belittling, overly venting) that the people involved agree to avoid. But despite the calm approach, we still call it conflict resolution in recognition that regardless of how mature and civilised parties are being - there is in fact a conflict that requires resolution.

 

You obviously have an issue with some of the beliefs and views Emilia has expressed in posts, and you criticised her for it....because her beliefs clash with your own view of how things should be. That clash of beliefs is a conflict. I think it's possible to acknowledge different approaches/views without veering into "you're not a good person" territory.

 

I have a friend who can be pretty ruthless, and who used to always tell me I was too nice. We've clashed at times over the right way to approach things, but we respect and often admire eachother precisely for our differences. Which I think is a major component in handling conflict successfully.

 

Drama is when you are appalled by or contemptuous of the way another person differs from you. Where their different view/approach results in you (general you) going into one of the three drama roles of victim ("you're a terrible person. When you say that, I feel...") rescuer ("it's a good thing there are people like me around to stand up to terrible people like you") or persecutor ("what a pathetic way to think/behave!").

 

Conflict doesn't need to be like that. But when people are extremely conflict avoidant, they lose sight of that. Or they've never learned to face up to and resolve conflict in a helpful way. And so what happens is that regardless of what they say about drama, they end up involved in it because they haven't developed the conflict resolution skills that would help to steer them away from it.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

You obviously have an issue with some of the beliefs and views Emilia has expressed in posts, and you criticised her for it....because her beliefs clash with your own view of how things should be. That clash of beliefs is a conflict. I think it's possible to acknowledge different approaches/views without veering into "you're not a good person" territory.

 

 

That's what I said.

 

I said my sister is aggressive too but I love her.

[writergal]

It can fuel drama when one person can't handle any conflict or disagreement without calling it aggressive or dramatic. I find that "laid back" can often mean extremely avoidant or even passive aggressive. Suddenly the non-laid back person becomes "dramatic" in a constant attempt to just be heard without being dismissed.

 

It's a control move too. The "laid back" person gets to feel ever rational and in control, while their dismissive attitude drives their partner nuts.

 

Not really. You don't get to pick and choose. Get critical then take offence at the response and play it down as the other person's 'misunderstanding'. You can always close down a discussuion by not responding. However what you cannot do is to call out a person and try to shut them down when you don't like what they are saying. If you do not like conflict, don't start one.

 

Oh the irony! Sorry Emilia but you just illustrated what toscaroscura was talking about. JuneJulySeptember was not baiting you to continue to respond. As you advised him, all you had to do was not respond to JJS's last response because you clearly disagree with JJS. JJS never attacked you from what I read, just disagreed with you.

 

I agree with toscaroscura that the aggressive person in the conflict tends to accuse the non-aggressive person of 'being dramatic' when that passive person finally speaks their mind, after rational talk has had no effect. The aggressive gaslighter doesn't want to acknowledge they overstepped their boundaries where the conversation is concerned (in the general sense I'm referring to with my opinion).

[Emilia]

That's what I said.

 

I said my sister is aggressive too but I love her.

 

I think you need to read up on what gaslighting is. I think it would help you in your interpersonal relationships as perhaps it would help you understand what is so offensive in some of your posts - and I gather likely in real life too.

[Emilia]

Oh the irony! Sorry Emilia but you just illustrated what toscaroscura was talking about. JuneJulySeptember was not baiting you to continue to respond. As you advised him, all you had to do was not respond to JJS's last response because you clearly disagree with JJS. JJS never attacked you from what I read, just disagreed with you.

 

I agree with toscaroscura that the aggressive person in the conflict tends to accuse the non-aggressive person of 'being dramatic' when that passive person finally speaks their mind, after rational talk has had no effect. The aggressive gaslighter doesn't want to acknowledge they overstepped their boundaries where the conversation is concerned (in the general sense I'm referring to with my opinion).

 

I think you completely misunderstood.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I think you need to read up on what gaslighting is. I think it would help you in your interpersonal relationships as perhaps it would help you understand what is so offensive in some of your posts - and I gather likely in real life too.

 

Why can't you just leave it alone?

 

I've already apologized and you're still coming at me and kicking my character.

[William]

It appears the thread starter did not substantially define what they meant by 'no drama' as such phrases can be interpreted in a wide manner, and has not otherwise substantively responded to the issues raised in the thread so let's keep the discussion focused on the salient points raised and questions asked and refrain from personal interactions.

 

1.Do men genuinely value being "no drama"?

 

Men, what are your opinions on this? Women, do you see your men as valuing 'no drama'?

 

2. Men are very driven by their passions and physical attractions, even more so than women. If they are very physically attracted to a woman, drama doesn't even seem to matter. They always prefer the high attraction woman.

 

Discuss aspects relevant to drama and attraction

 

3. Are men more likely to commit to "no drama" women and is it something they look for?

 

Men, are you more likely to commit to a woman who is 'no drama', all else being equal? Do you look for this?

 

The purpose of this statement is to steer discussion back to the original topic and away from personal interactions and disagreements. A wide variety of opinions is encouraged as long as they are topical, proffered in a collaborative manner and consistent with our guidelines of civility and respect. I'll add this thread to our discussion of gender-bashing, currently under review by moderation for future policies. Thanks and please continue!

[Taramere]

That's what I said.

 

I said my sister is aggressive too but I love her.

 

Right. I think confronting and acknowledging differences isn't always an easy task. Probably one of the major reasons this site exists is to help people find ways of handling conflict in their lives in a way that's as constructive as possible. Of course the nature of the site means that drama often sets in.

 

I know people who are very good at handling and resolving conflict - but I'm not sure I know anybody whose conflict never feature some element of drama. I mean, you had a bit of minor drama with Emilia there - and then you sort of pulled back, owned having a role in it and generally that's enough to put stuff like that to bed. Or not! But hopefully....

 

I don't think conflict and drama are the end of the world. A little bit can actually strengthen or reaffirm relationships. But when you get those terrible relationships you see being acted out on the street sometimes by drunken couples. Drama that involves shouting, screeching, probably physical violence at times...that's the sort of scene that a well adjusted person would be mortified to have played any role in. Real meltdown stuff. But it's the way some couples behave as a matter of course, unless or until one of them decides "this is not the way I want to live my life."

 

Some people - male or female - are likely comfortable with that kind of "generally regarded as antisocial and dysfunctional" drama because it's how they've been raised, and they've never really questioned it. I've encountered people who think it's "authentic".

Edited June 28, 2015 by Taramere