regine_phalange Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 He's entitled to his opinion, but the problem here is that he has two opinions about your body depending on who he's talking to. That would scare me the most. I'm confused, did he have a low or high sex drive? Nevertheless, I'd be very hurt too and I'd do exactly what you did. Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 And also..... He was saying way more than the skinny fat comment!! He mentioned her finally wearing makeup and getting a tan.....wtf did he even go out with her to begin with? I mean he must be just so wonderful and gorgeous that he can have his pick of anyone! He picked her apart and that is a red flag for her because eventually he would say those things to her and she would lose all her confidence..... I wouldn't want my daughter dating a jackass like that!! If she felt good about herself she should be able to take the comments her stride or at least have a go at him but not spit the dummy. There have been numerous posts on here from guys saying how they really appreciate it when their gfs make the effort to dress stylishly or put on makeup. I'm sure she appreciated all the hours he puts in the gym to build the physique that turns her on. He obviously prefers that his gfs make a bit more of an effort to look more pretty for him. He obviously see a lot more to her than just that otherwise he would not have asked her out. I've had gfs, want to change my hair style, change my clothing style, get more sun, be more outgoing, wished I put on weight I lost. I take it in my stride as long as they don't drop their level of devotion/affection to me. Because I have lived with it and hate dating double standards I don't see it as picking her apart. Its cistism (which she was not supposed to see except for her snooping), but obviously not a dealbreaker for him as he is still with her despite the lack of sex. A really shallow/jerk guy would have just had sex with her and said this is not going to work out or he is not looking for anything serious and moved on a couple of mths prior. Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) I always step it up when I start seeing someone and expect him to do the same. Most men seem happy with this. He is right about lifting by the way if you want a good body. Weights and protein rich diet rather than running and carbs which is probably what you are doing today. aaaahhh NO. Some men have a problem with physical looks and physical imperfection, I am a person who worked a lot on self development and evolved tremendously the last 2-3 years. How about my requirements, are men supposed to be devouring a full library, from Freud and Jung to Berne and company, so go on a date with me and be "mentally" and "spiritually" fit for me? What's fair is fair, right, no double standards here, correct? People are what they are. No, a guy saying that you should "step it up" is a big red flag, because he is condescending. He kinda likes her, but more toned, better hair, more make up, less pounds and wearing silk and suede and not baskets and jeans. HE is projecting on her his obsession with lack of physical imperfections. He is not asking her to change, or suggesting that she should change, he is not even getting involved in her physical training. What he does do is he expects her to change, as if he is somehow entitled to her efforts. No direction what so ever, she is just supposed to read in his mind about the make up and rest. Who the f*ck is he, Johnny Depp or smth?!? As for the b*tching to the sister, I find that normal and natural - the OP did pry. But that single comment, in itself - apart from the whole way he is judging her weight and body - shows that he is deems himself as superior. Lots of men make projections like that. "if she wants to be with me, she'd better only get straight As". "if she wants to be with me, she'd better get a better job". "if she wants to be with me, she's better get a different car". Some people project their own sense of inadequacy onto the others and especially on their partner and children. Does this statement ring a bell ? Your partner should be enough. The simple fact of enjoying eachother's company, sense of humor, point of view on life, should be more than enough. You are imperfect. You have other needs and weaknesses too. How will he react when he discovers them? He is obviously asking for perfection - at least from a physical perspective. What makes you think he won't be asking for perfection somewhere else as well? OP, in a weird way, I think the guy sorta liked you, because if he just didn't care at all, he wouldn't be talking to his sister about you. He wouldn't have cared about the pizza place... Me thinks you were sort of in the "potential date" category. If you had only tried a little bit harder... See, in reality, he's not good enough for you. You've outsmarted him there, hehe. Good for you that you've caught him redhanded. I do believe that these things happen for a reason. Move on, it appears you need more substance and less shape, in a partner. Edited June 28, 2015 by candie13 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 He just sent me a text. Which I will copy and paste here: "Hi Janey, if you haven't already blocked me- I hope you can at least take the time to read what I have to say: I want to hug you and hold you and wipes away your tears because I know that I've hurt you deeply with my words and I am so incredibly sorry. I feel like words cannot mend the wound, but I will try with them anyway. Our relationship has been a struggle at times due to trust issues and insecurities... Reading someone else's private conversations is never appropriate, and I have always afforded you your privacy, I wish the same could be said for me and my privacy. I do not believe or mean any of the words I said about you, it was simply a stupid, although private, conversation. Clearly that's not truly how I feel about you because I've spent three months next to you having a great time.... And if I had truly wanted to be with someone else, I would have been-but I chose you, Janey. I have chosen to be next to you because I have learned and have been show what a truly amazing person you are, and how you are breathtaking in so many beautiful ways. You have a great sense of humor, you are responsible, are very honest and a completely pure person. You make me better in more ways than I can tell and are the last person deserving of irrational banter. I feel like I have lost any potential future with you as friend or more... Which is gut wrenching because I have felt close to and deeply care about you. I hope that you can someday accept my apology. Yours, [his name]" I agree with trippi1432, he is telling you off in no uncertain terms for snooping, and he is therefore shifting the "blame" for the nasty stuff he wrote about you, onto you. He is also in effect saying he told his sister lies about you... Lots of *I* and *me* there too which I guess is not unsurprising. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 ok, here's what I really really think. Texting is for losers. Real people meet face to face and talk about things. This whole texting episode is really passive aggressive, it gives potential room to a gaslighting / or how I call them "mind f*cking" episode. it's up to you to take his word for it and ask to see him face to face and talk about things or just forgive and forget. Just ... don't engage in another long text sending... it'll never be fully clear or fully over. Do what grown ups do: talk about it. Face to face. just my 2 cents 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) I agree with trippi1432, he is telling you off in no uncertain terms for snooping, and he is therefore shifting the "blame" for the nasty stuff he wrote about you, onto you. He is also in effect saying he told his sister lies about you... Lots of *I* and *me* there too which I guess is not unsurprising. I don't agree he was *shifting the blame* at all. The fact is, she DID invade his privacy which was wrong. There is no denying that. What he did was let her know that, while invading his privacy and snooping was wrong, he was willing to move past that as he realized HIS actions (trashing her behind her back) were MORE hurtful and MORE detrimental than her snooping was. He took full responsibility for what he did, admitted and acknowledged how wrong and hurtful it was, expressed his remorse for having hurt her...apologized for hurting her and hoped someday she could forgive him. How does any of that translate to him shifting the blame? Do you think he should have just ignored the fact she snooped and invaded his privacy? Would that have made his words sound more sincere? He had every right to mention the privacy issue. It was significant and he was right to address it. That said, as he realized HIS actions were more hurtful and MORE severe, he is moving past the privacy issue... so as to VALIDATE Janey's hurt feelings...and hopefully make her feel better. But he had every right to address it.... His apology does not erase going behind her back and trashing her....that was very wrong on so many levels as has been discussed. But surely his apology had to make her feel a little bit better...which IMO was his intention...while also addressing the fact she snooped, which was also wrong. Lesson learned for BOTH of them. I don't see any manipulation there whatsoever. It was a heartfelt sincere apology. Clearly, he isn't even expecting to get back together with her. He realized he behaved badly, hurt her, feels remorse for that, and apologized. Nothing more, nothing less. Edited June 28, 2015 by katiegrl 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 How does any of that translate to him shifting the blame? easy peasy.. because an apology is ALWAYS about what was done wrong by the person giving the apology, the moment he blamed her for anything it was NO longer an apology. ie: pulled out of the air... "I'm sorry I yelled at you but you made me mad isn't an apology, it blames the person you are saying the apology to." 9 Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 It was a heartfelt sincere apology. IMO, till his next one The guy trash talked her to his family.. there is no recovering from that one 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Fugu Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The comment of being fat in and of itself isn't the problem - insensitive but forgivable. The problem is that he seems like an arrogant @ss. "She's gonna have to step it up a bit." WTF kind of mentality is that? What is he, your high school soccer coach? Sheesh, what makes him so special? But the real kicker was that he had some sort of thing for a girl he hooked up with a few months back. I mean, that kinda spells it all out, unfortunately. He's just not that into you. Seems like he has immature notions of relationships and isn't really ready for anything worth your time. Why not be confident of the move you made, and find someone who can appreciate all of your qualities. Mind you, keeping yourself healthy and in shape is never a bad thing. Maybe this can be motivation for you so that the next time you see him you'll make him regret leaving you. Not that it matters, though. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) **IMO, till his next one** The guy trash talked her to his family.. there is no recovering from that one Hopefully, there will not be be a "next one." Or the opportunity for a next one. If Janey is smart, she will thank him for the apology, wish him well...and move on. That's what I would do .... as you are right, no apology can erase his hurtful words, there is no "recovering" from that. All he can do is acknowledge how hurtful his words were and apologize, which he did. Edited June 28, 2015 by katiegrl Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 aaaahhh NO. Some men have a problem with physical looks and physical imperfection, I am a person who worked a lot on self development and evolved tremendously the last 2-3 years. How about my requirements, are men supposed to be devouring a full library, from Freud and Jung to Berne and company, so go on a date with me and be "mentally" and "spiritually" fit for me? What's fair is fair, right, no double standards here, correct? People are what they are. No, a guy saying that you should "step it up" is a big red flag, because he is condescending. He kinda likes her, but more toned, better hair, more make up, less pounds and wearing silk and suede and not baskets and jeans. HE is projecting on her his obsession with lack of physical imperfections. He is not asking her to change, or suggesting that she should change, he is not even getting involved in her physical training. What he does do is he expects her to change, as if he is somehow entitled to her efforts. No direction what so ever, she is just supposed to read in his mind about the make up and rest. Who the f*ck is he, Johnny Depp or smth?!? As for the b*tching to the sister, I find that normal and natural - the OP did pry. But that single comment, in itself - apart from the whole way he is judging her weight and body - shows that he is deems himself as superior. Lots of men make projections like that. "if she wants to be with me, she'd better only get straight As". "if she wants to be with me, she'd better get a better job". "if she wants to be with me, she's better get a different car". Some people project their own sense of inadequacy onto the others and especially on their partner and children. Does this statement ring a bell ? Your partner should be enough. The simple fact of enjoying eachother's company, sense of humor, point of view on life, should be more than enough. You are imperfect. You have other needs and weaknesses too. How will he react when he discovers them? He is obviously asking for perfection - at least from a physical perspective. What makes you think he won't be asking for perfection somewhere else as well? OP, in a weird way, I think the guy sorta liked you, because if he just didn't care at all, he wouldn't be talking to his sister about you. He wouldn't have cared about the pizza place... Me thinks you were sort of in the "potential date" category. If you had only tried a little bit harder... See, in reality, he's not good enough for you. You've outsmarted him there, hehe. Good for you that you've caught him redhanded. I do believe that these things happen for a reason. Move on, it appears you need more substance and less shape, in a partner. As I said, BOTH should step it up. I believe in having standards and expecting standards. Each to their own. Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 easy peasy.. because an apology is ALWAYS about what was done wrong by the person giving the apology, the moment he blamed her for anything it was NO longer an apology. ie: pulled out of the air... "I'm sorry I yelled at you but you made me mad isn't an apology, it blames the person you are saying the apology to." Your scenario isn't even close to what happened here, not IMO anyway. I don't have time to explain why; so we will just have to agree to disagree on that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 As I said, BOTH should step it up. I believe in having standards and expecting standards. Each to their own. Lol...BOTH need to move on. Clearly this ship has sailed..... Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Mind you, keeping yourself healthy and in shape is never a bad thing. Maybe this can be motivation for you so that the next time you see him you'll make him regret leaving you. Not that it matters, though. She IS in shape, she runs and swims and is fit, she is just not the shape he obviously wants, as he is a body builder. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't have time to explain why; so we will just have to agree to disagree on that. You don't have to explain an apology to me.. I know how to give them, thanks 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 You don't have to explain an apology to me.. I know how to give them, thanks Fabulous... glad to hear it! And you're welcome.....:bunny: Link to post Share on other sites
RedRobin Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Accept the apology then move on. He showed his true colors. Whatever lesson he learned is up to the next girl to worry about. You gave him your best and he shyte on it. And no... ninja isnt correct. People with decent values dont talk like your now hopefully ex did. He is an ugly person. Trying to cover it up by bodybuilding. I have no doubt that he does 'care' for you and is into you....but in the way narcissistic and self centered people are... not because he actually cared about you as a human being. Ninjas comments very often read like boys will be boys, while shaming women for being upset. Comments like that do a big disservice to men too. There are lots of great men who dont act this way. Dont buy it. You screened this guy proper. There will be someone for you who will not dump on your gifts. Thing is, deep down you knew something wasnt right. In the future you can and should trust your instincts... without the need to go digging into emails and such. That is unbecoming behavior on your part. However, Dont let him guilt you into thinking your 'crimes' are somehow 'equal'. What he did was directed at you personally. What you did was trying to uncover a truth from someone who wasnt being honest. Edited June 28, 2015 by RedRobin 2 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Accept the apology then move on. He showed his true colors. Whatever lesson he learned is up to the next girl to worry about. You gave him your best and he shyte on it. And no... ninja isnt correct. People with decent values dont talk like your now hopefully ex did. He is an ugly person. Trying to cover it up by bodybuilding. I have no doubt that he does 'care' for you and is into you....but in the way narcissistic and self centered people are... not because he actually cared about you as a human being. Thing is, deep down you knew something wasnt right. In the future you can and should trust your instincts... without the need to go digging into emails and such. That is unbecoming behavior on your part. However, **Dont let him guilt you into thinking your 'crimes' are somehow 'equal'. ** What he did was directed at you personally. What you did was trying to uncover a truth from someone who wasnt being honest. I highly doubt what she felt after reading his apology text was "guilt." And I don't think his text was meant to cause guilt either. To make her aware her snooping was wrong, sure..as well he should have. But not to elicit guilt. Okay, the guy was (is) an asshat....he behaved badly and apologized. But she was no saint either...it was wrong to snoop. He addressed that as respectfully as he could....being careful not to assign blame or elicit guilt....but he was right to address it...it was wrong! Was what he did worse? Yes definitely! Which he acknowledged and apologized for. Lesson learned for both and they should both move on... My two cents... Edited June 28, 2015 by katiegrl 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 . He had also written her "Yeah she wanted to ask about commitment last week. I told her I'm not ready. In order for her to get that she'd have to change some things and really step it up." I want to know more details about this. Last week he told you you needed to step it up? What was that conversation about? And if this was last week and there you are spending a whole day together it means you were ok with him not being ready + you needing to step it up? Link to post Share on other sites
RedRobin Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Moving on... I hear you about the tanning... i am an outdoors person too. I wearcthe highest sunscreen available, and wear long sleeves and a hat. There are some great fabrics that are thin, cool, and cut well for athletes. I had my body fat tested by a professional once... when i was a five mile a day runner.. it was 11%. I build muscle easily. Too easily. I went the bodybuilder route when i was younger and looked like a german shot putter. No thanks. The activities i do regularly keep my muscles toned without hitting the gym much. Kinda like cross fit but in real life. My body fat is more like 15 to 20% now. Link to post Share on other sites
Author JaneyJ1991 Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 I want to know more details about this. Last week he told you you needed to step it up? What was that conversation about? And if this was last week and there you are spending a whole day together it means you were ok with him not being ready + you needing to step it up? We NEVER, EVER had a conversation about me needing to step it up. The only conversation we had about commitment/exclusivity was him telling me he's "not ready yet" and "not in a place to have a relationship right now". He never ever told me it was because what he told his sister--that I need to "step it up". That hurts, too. Because it means he wasn't just afraid of commitment. It means his conversation with me was a lie, and if I'd looked like a supermodel, he would have been ready that day. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Janey, how do you feel about the apology? Did it make you feel better....worse....guilty for snooping? Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 You don't have to explain an apology to me.. I know how to give them, thanks I agree with you, an true apology is all about putting yourself at the mercy of the person you are apologising to. Showing that you regret hurting/distressing/upsetting/disappointing/angering them and asking for their forgiveness. It is not about berating them for anything they may have done and giving excuses for YOUR behaviour. It is about accepting responsibility for your part in making them feel bad. Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I agree with you, an true apology is all about putting yourself at the mercy of the person you are apologising to. Showing that you regret hurting/distressing/upsetting/disappointing/angering them and asking for their forgiveness. It is not about berating them for anything they may have done and giving excuses for YOUR behaviour. It is about accepting responsibility for your part in making them feel bad. Berating? Exaggerate much? Sheesh! Link to post Share on other sites
PogoStick Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 After that text, he seems amazing! (no-homo) Link to post Share on other sites
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