SCOTUS on religious liberty [relevant to recent decision on same-sex marriage]

[Keenly]

Actually, judges have been ruling in favor of the pharmacists.

 

 

I went to go disprove your statement, and I found this little gem on the ACLU website.

 

This is word for word, unedited.

 

" a woman has no federal constitutional right to receive contraception. Although the Constitution protects a woman’s right to contraception, "

 

 

This is word for word. Notice how its a direct contradiction of itself? My brain exploded. A woman has no constitutional right to contraception, although she has a constitutional right to contraception.

 

A little off topic, but after seeing that I don't even want to try to dig deeper. Who knows what I will find X_x

[OpenBook]

I went to go disprove your statement, and I found this little gem on the ACLU website.

 

This is word for word, unedited.

 

" a woman has no federal constitutional right to receive contraception. Although the Constitution protects a woman’s right to contraception, "

 

:lmao: It's a world gone mad.

[pureinheart]

My friend on FB just posted to pray for her friend/relative as he has been getting death threats from the Muslim community.

[Keenly]

My friend on FB just posted to pray for her friend/relative as he has been getting death threats from the Muslim community.

 

 

This is why people hate eachother.

 

She is not getting death threats from the community as a whole, all billion of them.

 

She is getting them from a few morons. Every religion, creed, sect, group of any kind has a few stupid crazy people.

 

 

 

 

I went to the california state fair today, and there was a muslim awareness and learning what muslims have to offer booth right next to a vendor selling "america" and patriotic themed items. The two booth owners seemed to be laughing and joking around. it was nice to see.

[pureinheart]

I went to go disprove your statement, and I found this little gem on the ACLU website.

 

This is word for word, unedited.

 

" a woman has no federal constitutional right to receive contraception. Although the Constitution protects a woman’s right to contraception, "

 

 

This is word for word. Notice how its a direct contradiction of itself? My brain exploded. A woman has no constitutional right to contraception, although she has a constitutional right to contraception.

 

A little off topic, but after seeing that I don't even want to try to dig deeper. Who knows what I will find X_x

 

There's many contradictions, but I don't think I would trust the ACLU's interpretation of much of anything. Abortion is one of the biggest contradictions I've seen to date.

[nittygritty]

I went to go disprove your statement, and I found this little gem on the ACLU website.

 

This is word for word, unedited.

 

" a woman has no federal constitutional right to receive contraception. Although the Constitution protects a woman’s right to contraception, "

 

 

This is word for word. Notice how its a direct contradiction of itself? My brain exploded. A woman has no constitutional right to contraception, although she has a constitutional right to contraception.

 

A little off topic, but after seeing that I don't even want to try to dig deeper. Who knows what I will find X_x

 

Yep, the laws are a mess.

[UpwardForward]

I was just curious, how many more pages of circles you guys would like to go in?

 

I have the time, but at this point I'm probably just going to start copy pasting the same answers that were given to the same questions that were asked a dozen pages ago.

 

Why not just say: I Concede.

[pureinheart]

This is why people hate eachother.

 

She is not getting death threats from the community as a whole, all billion of them.

 

She is getting them from a few morons. Every religion, creed, sect, group of any kind has a few stupid crazy people.

 

 

 

 

I went to the california state fair today, and there was a muslim awareness and learning what muslims have to offer booth right next to a vendor selling "america" and patriotic themed items. The two booth owners seemed to be laughing and joking around. it was nice to see.

 

It was a serious post so thanks for your input and complete lack of compassion, but I would expect that.

[autumnnight]

A friend and I were recently discussing the SCOTUS ruling, the bakery, and the peripheral issues they may open the door for with regard to the church and Christians. Our specific concerns were the 501c tax exempt status, where a pastor may be allowed to preach, etc. We were also discussing the recent school curriculum that has been conveniently placed in the health classroom, effectively preventing parents from opting their children out. These things troubled us both.

 

BUT I wanted to tell you about my friend. I met her in a law class in graduate school, and she was about as far left as you could be. She was a vocal, almost biting agnostic, she was openly "pansexual," she wrote angry poetry....I am not sure why in the world she even wanted to have a conversation with me. It was because of the way I presented a paper on freedom of religious expression in public schools; she said it was impossible to argue with and she was almost annoyed. This is someone who had had at least 4 abortions, she was rarely sober on the weekends according to her (I never went anywhere with her like that, though we ate lunch after class a couple of times.)

 

Today, this woman teaches a ladies Bible study at her church - sort of a cross between Kay Arthur and Beth Moore, and she does all the studying herself. She works as a volunteer at the crisis pregnancy center in her town and has 3 adopted children. Her husband makes regular trips overseas as a missionary doctor.

 

Do you know how her life was radically changed? It was not because I lobbied to outlaw her from getting an abortion, sleeping with women, smoking pot, or arguing with me about my political stances. It is because we built a friendship, she watcvhed me and watched me closely, we talked a LOT, and I never took her bait. I just shared the truth of God's Word and the gospel. Eventually, one day in my apartment, she became a Christian. She began attending church with me, and we had devotionals together frequently.

 

THAT is how you change people's lives. You do not change their lies by getting angry, being self-righteous, hating fellow Christians, and trying to make the law fit your own opinion.

 

I believe all of God's guidelines, commands, and prohibition with regard to sexual behavior and murder of an innocent human. I also believe what it says about gossip, about pride, about haughty eyes and a proud heart, about the two greatest commandments, and about examining ourselves.

 

I am not perfect, and I have gotten emotional on this thread. But maybe now this will put to rest the idea that I am Satan posing as a believer.

[Keenly]

Why not just say: I Concede.

 

 

Why would I concede when my opinion is already victorious?

[BC1980]

Actually, judges have been ruling in favor of the pharmacists.

 

What about birth control pills? I remember this being an issue several years ago. Some pharmacists were refusing to fill prescriptions for birth control pills (not Plan B). If you work as a retail pharmacist, you know your job description. If you don't want to fill certain prescriptions, go teach pharmacy school or work in a an area where you won't be put in a situation that compromises your beliefs. Work in a pediatric unit if you don't want to fill a birth control prescription.

[Keenly]

It was a serious post so thanks for your input and complete lack of compassion, but I would expect that.

 

 

Call it like it is.

[autumnnight]

Regarding prescriptions, a private pharmacy owner is NOT required to stock ANY abortive pill. End of story.

 

I do not know how it works at places like Wal Mart. I would assume that if you work at Wal Mart, you are expected to abide by their policies. Which means if you don't want to fill a plan B prescription, you need to work somewhere that doesn't sell them.

 

But no, no matter what people quote, if you own your pharmcy, no one can make you carry an abortion pill.

[nittygritty]

Regarding prescriptions, a private pharmacy owner is NOT required to stock ANY abortive pill. End of story.

 

I do not know how it works at places like Wal Mart. I would assume that if you work at Wal Mart, you are expected to abide by their policies. Which means if you don't want to fill a plan B prescription, you need to work somewhere that doesn't sell them.

 

But no, no matter what people quote, if you own your pharmcy, no one can make you carry an abortion pill.

 

How it worked in an Illinois lawsuit where pharmacists sued Walmart and won a settlement, was that Walmart pharmacists could refuse to sell Plan B if it went against their religious beliefs but Walmart had to also provide their customers with pharmacists that would sell them Plan B. Assuming that Walmart can't ask their pharmacy applicants whether or not they have religious beliefs that oppose selling certain medications or products to customers. Because that would be considered discrimination if Walmart didn't hire someone because of their religious beliefs, I don't know how Walmart (or any other business) are supposed to comply with many of the confusing discrimination laws.

 

Same sex marriage laws are creating even more confusing laws for individuals and business owners that have religious beliefs to try to comply with, when it comes to undetermined gray areas. No matter what, the government cannot change someone's religious beliefs. However, Not too long ago Hillary Clinton made statements about religious beliefs needing to be changed about abortion. And more recently President Obama has made statements about religious beliefs needing to "shift" to accept gay marriage. So there does appear to be an agenda.

Edited July 12, 2015 by nittygritty

[BC1980]

Regarding prescriptions, a private pharmacy owner is NOT required to stock ANY abortive pill. End of story.

 

I do not know how it works at places like Wal Mart. I would assume that if you work at Wal Mart, you are expected to abide by their policies. Which means if you don't want to fill a plan B prescription, you need to work somewhere that doesn't sell them.

 

But no, no matter what people quote, if you own your pharmcy, no one can make you carry an abortion pill.

 

Plan B uses the same active ingredient as an IUD and some BCPs. It's not an abortive pill. I think maybe the dosage is higher with Plan B than with BCPs. I can't remember exactly.

[pureinheart]

 

Same sex marriage laws are creating even more confusing laws for individuals and business owners that have religious beliefs to try to comply with, when it comes to undetermined gray areas. No matter what, the government cannot change someone's religious beliefs. However, Not too long ago Hillary Clinton made statements about religious beliefs needing to be changed about abortion. And more recently President Obama has made statements about religious beliefs needing to "shift" to accept gay marriage. So there does appear to be an agenda.

 

One solution would be to do what San Francisco did- it's deemed itself a 'sanctuary city' for illegals and possibly isn't required, or just not listening to any laws pertaining to illegals.

 

If a city did it, why not a state?

[nittygritty]

One solution would be to do what San Francisco did- it's deemed itself a 'sanctuary city' for illegals and possibly isn't required, or just not listening to any laws pertaining to illegals.

 

If a city did it, why not a state?

 

Pure, I'm not following. Do you mean 'Sanctuary Cities' for people with Religious beliefs? Because the majority of people living in the U.S. do have Religious beliefs.

 

I know that some states have "conscience laws" and have expanded the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

[autumnnight]

If I were a church leader right now, I would be scouring the law to have a full, documented understanding of my rights - because we actually have a lot more than we think, especially if you have someone in your congregation who really understands how the law works. I would be looking at our budget, and I would be asking myself, "What can we do to make sure we are still protected by 501c and what we can do to stay afloat should the government decide to take that away?" I'd be getting firm legal advice about things like freedom of speech. There are Christian legal organizations who are dedicated to this stuff. I'd be watching what my school district did very closely, and if there is going to be a board vote for making ANY sex-oriented curriculum part of a course that cannot be opted out of, I'd have as many people at those board meetings as possible.

 

In addition, I'd be involved in giving to my community like crazy. I'd become a force to be reckoned with when it comes to Love God/Love your neighbor. I'd pull out all the stops to make sure my youth and children's programs were amazing, Bible-based, and drew as many kids as possible. I'd create yearly budgets with a contingency fund in mind, and I'd find a company that caters to church organizations and buy some organizational insurance just in case.

 

Then I'd keep on preaching the gospel and making disciples. Equipping the saints as if life depended on it - because it does.

[pureinheart]

A couple of people have mentioned how high the divorce rate is with heterosexual couples... wow I think based on this article that homosexual divorce rates will take divorce to an entirely new level.

 

Family Research Council

[Fugu]

What about police officers who have moral qualms about killing people even if their partner or someone else's life is in danger? Would we accept that?

 

My point is, the job is what the job is. You know ahead of time that there will be some situations that will make you morally uncomfortable, but you can and should weigh that against the greater good that you are doing. I don't think it's ethical for an individual person or an organization to be splitting hairs with patients in need of care and telling them, line by line, what services they feel like providing and which ones they don't. If they can't do 100 percent of their job, then we should find others who will. Period.

[autumnnight]

What about police officers who have moral qualms about killing people even if their partner or someone else's life is in danger? Would we accept that?

 

My point is, the job is what the job is. You know ahead of time that there will be some situations that will make you morally uncomfortable, but you can and should weigh that against the greater good that you are doing. I don't think it's ethical for an individual person or an organization to be splitting hairs with patients in need of care and telling them, line by line, what services they feel like providing and which ones they don't. If they can't do 100 percent of their job, then we should find others who will. Period.

 

This is a great point. What exactly does it have to do with anything discussed here? Is someone advocating for police officers not to defend people or hospitals doing a religious test of every treatment?

[Keenly]

A couple of people have mentioned how high the divorce rate is with heterosexual couples... wow I think based on this article that homosexual divorce rates will take divorce to an entirely new level.

 

Family Research Council

Objection.

 

Speculation, and irrelevant.

[pureinheart]

Pure, I'm not following. Do you mean 'Sanctuary Cities' for people with Religious beliefs? Because the majority of people living in the U.S. do have Religious beliefs.

 

I know that some states have "conscience laws" and have expanded the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

 

Sorry NG, didn't see this. San Francisco has named itself a sanctuary city to illegals and have told the feds to kiss off ... illegals won't be deported. San Francisco is above the law in other words.

[pureinheart]

Objection.

 

Speculation, and irrelevant.

 

You're kidding, right?

[Keenly]

You're kidding, right?

 

Yes and no. Divorce is usually brought up as one of those things the " sanctity of marriage " people sweep under the rug, so I'm just hoping that it's not like all of a sudden people care.

 

 

But how could anyone predict divorce rates? Sure, you can analyze previous data, but predicting more divorce based on what information exactly?

 

What if the gay divorce rate hovers around 15 to 20 percent?