Religious beliefs do not deserve respect.

[autumnnight]

It's preposterous to me that we always have to hear about how people's religious beliefs should be 'respected'.

 

It's as if religion has been immunized from criticism, and is perhaps the only domain of discourse where we grant this respect without having the slightest defensible reason.

 

Do we "respect the beliefs" of people who think Elvis is still alive? Or those claiming alien abduction? Or how about those who think the Earth is flat? These beliefs don't hurt anyone, so we should respect them?

 

Ah, but this is the internet, where anyone can sound righteous and claim that, yes, I actually do respect those beliefs. Except you don't.

 

Respect faith? So, we should all respect someone crossing the street on faith, instead of looking both ways? We should respect someone denying their child medical treatment, because of faith in a god who will cure the child on his own?

 

Clearly, we don't respect faith. Of course, those above examples have real tangible negative consequences, whereas it might be argued quietly believing in Jesus does not. But faith in the unsubstantiated isn't magically deserving of respect. Again, in any other domain of discourse, respect is something earned; not freely granted just because a certain belief is consoling to someone.

 

Religious beliefs do not deserve respect.

 

NCG, even though I am a Christian, I'd like to say I admire your honesty. At last you have the guts to say what you actually think of me, autumnnight, who is a Christian, instead of being a coward and couching it in a bunch of pseudo-tolerant crap. You think I deserve no respect, you think I am an idiot, you think I am a hypocrite, you think I am what is wrong with this world, and you have the guts to just come out and say it.

 

I can respect people who are real.

 

I'll be wimpy and honest and say that yes, it does hurt me, that so many people on this thread feel the same about me. Because, just like when someone makes a black joke and then turns to the one black man in the room and say, "Oh, I didn't mean YOU." We all know that is crap. What each of you just said about religion absolutely reflects exactly what you think of me. And ever other LS poster who has a faith.

[central]

Many - if not all - religious beliefs are total nonsense and stupidity. However, I respect a person's rights to have those beliefs while deriding the ideas themselves. I won't disrespect the person, but will mock their ideas if they try to debate them or push them on me. That is MY right of free speech and my freedom of (from?) religion.

[writergal]

NCG, even though I am a Christian, I'd like to say I admire your honesty. At last you have the guts to say what you actually think of me, autumnnight, who is a Christian, instead of being a coward and couching it in a bunch of pseudo-tolerant crap. You think I deserve no respect, you think I am an idiot, you think I am a hypocrite, you think I am what is wrong with this world, and you have the guts to just come out and say it.

 

I can respect people who are real.

 

I'll be wimpy and honest and say that yes, it does hurt me, that so many people on this thread feel the same about me. Because, just like when someone makes a black joke and then turns to the one black man in the room and say, "Oh, I didn't mean YOU." We all know that is crap. What each of you just said about religion absolutely reflects exactly what you think of me. And ever other LS poster who has a faith.

 

Unlike the poster Central, the problem for me is that I can't separate the person from their belief. Whenever I've given the person the benefit of the doubt, or given them my trust and respect without letting them first earn it by showing me that they deserve my trust and respect, I have been burned badly, especially by religious people who mock me for my Atheist beliefs.

 

And, I am not like other posters who will say, "I like gay people but I don't respect their lifestyle because that is a contradictive statement. You can't like gay people if you don't respect their gay lifestyle. That's just not possible.

[autumnnight]

Unlike the poster Central, the problem for me is that I can't separate the person from their belief. Whenever I've given the person the benefit of the doubt, or given them my trust and respect without letting them first earn it by showing me that they deserve my trust and respect, I have been burned badly, especially by religious people who mock me for my Atheist beliefs.

 

And, I am not like other posters who will say, "I like gay people but I don't respect their lifestyle because that is a contradictive statement. You can't like gay people if you don't respect their gay lifestyle. That's just not possible.

 

Not sure what the gay lifestyle has to do with anything, but you don't have to worry. Your view of me has always been abundantly clear.

 

I just applaud the OP for having the guts to come out and SAY he basically rejects anyone who has faith.

[Under The Radar]

I've met a lot of genuinely good people in my life for whom religion was important. I don't understand the need to disrespect someone's "belief system" if it is not placing harm on you.

 

We all know how religion can and has negatively impacted politics, that kids get sent to "pray the gay away" camps, and sometimes we have *******s fly planes into buildings ...... all in the name of the "holy one".

 

I'm not talking about those people. No, what I'm talking about is every day people ...... good people ...... for whom religion is a fundamental part of their lives. These are the people who are better and happier because of their faith. These people don't force feed their ideas, convictions, and faith down my throat. They treat me with respect, honesty, and curiosity. They don't think I'm going to hell if I'm a non believer, nor do they judge me poorly for not subscribing to religion.

 

Personally, I'm agnostic, but I'm not searching for answers. I'm not looking to prove or disprove that god exists. I also don't lump belief in god with religion. I mean, most people are born into their religious doctrines and philosophies. If you are orthodox jewish ...... well ...... chances are your parents were jewish. The same could be said for christians, muslims, hindus, the amish, and the list goes on.

 

I know and congregate with people from all walks of life ...... many of them from differing religions ...... many of them good people. I find the militant atheist to be as off putting as the dogmatic theist ...... I simply avoid them. However, I don't feel the need to condemn atheism or religion as a whole ...... to put a blanket generalization on the entire community.

[endlessabyss]

Lots of lolz in this thread.

 

 

Keep it coming; this is why I love this forum.

[Krieger]

I'm not American, don't live in the US and the world doesn't revolve around the US.

 

 

Than other country's should stop calling when they need money with there hands out. They can go F off if another country goes to war with them.

[Krieger]

Atheist do not deserve respect as well what makes there beliefs so special?

 

 

[Tayla]

Than other country's should stop calling when they need money with there hands out. They can go F off if another country goes to war with them.

 

Ummm side bar here: The United states is trillions in debt to overseas accounts. Do your home work, we fight other countries battles as a way to pay down our debt... geesh... we pimp out our military and think nothing of it.

 

on topic: I may not like the doctrines or actions of some members of a religion, yet I respect the right to believe and practice in a way that holds regards for its members and the community.

 

Discrimination comes to mind when we disregard or disrespect a group ... have we ever gotten away from that mentality? Based on some opinions conveyed... it would appear not...

[jay1983]

If I take shots at atheists, (oh and I can get in their sh*t) they wouldn't like it.

[Robert Z]

You think I deserve no respect, you think I am an idiot, you think I am a hypocrite, you think I am what is wrong with this world, and you have the guts to just come out and say it.

 

I can respect people who are real.

 

For me it is more like the story of the rabbi who stood before the crowd in the temple and declared all of his good deeds. Whereas the lowly man prayed in silence in the back of the church... and he was far greater in God's eyes.

 

I'm going with God on this one. I don't have a problem with the silent prayer type. It is the imposition of that faith on everyone else that I have come to resent. I think religious activism is what causes so much resentment. And we have too many rabbis! I mean sheeeesh!!! For example, now they want religious propaganda taught alongside real science AS IF it has equal merit!

Edited June 29, 2015 by Robert Z

[autumnnight]

For me it is more like the story of the rabbi who stood before the crowd in the temple and declared all of his good deeds. Whereas the lowly man prayed in silence in the back of the church... and he was far greater in God's eyes.

 

I'm going with God on this one. I don't have a problem with the silent prayer type. It is the imposition of that faith on everyone else that I have come to resent. I think religious activism is what causes so much resentment. And we have too many rabbis! I mean sheeeesh!!! For example, now they want religious propaganda taught alongside real science AS IF it has equal merit!

 

Aside from the complete misinterpretation of that passage and the little dig i didn't miss, you can disrespect me all you like, though you do not even know me. You are certainly not alone.

 

That said, I will continue to respect you.

[Rainbowlove]

My favorite is the so called war on Christianity.

 

OMG...I just laughed so hard I almost peed.

 

The war on Christianity!!! How crazy does that sound? Scary crazy when you say it out loud like that.

 

The religious right is losing their power...sinking like the Titanic. Why?

 

Because they don't practice what they preach and people are seeing it. They choose whom they accept and love instead of truly loving all. They send messages of hate.

 

If the church wants to pull people back in, they need to sway more towards the middle and embrace all of God's children.

 

Until then, I'll worship the sun, stars, moon, earth, ocean, animals, people and have faith in myself and my ability to love all of God's creation without holding a bible in my hand or sitting in a pew.

[central]

Atheist do not deserve respect as well what makes there beliefs so special?

 

 

 

Atheists deserve respect, just as fundamentalists deserve respect. As people. You can disagree with their beliefs and ideas, and there is no need to respect those ideas and beliefs, but I do think we must respect their right to have those beliefs, and accord them basic respect as human beings.

 

This is a very important distinction.

[Rainbowlove]

Atheist do not deserve respect as well what makes there beliefs so special?

 

 

 

Why does a person need to believe in God to deserve respect?

 

I have friends who are legit scientists in and Ivy league school. They are brilliant and loving people who don't believe in God. It's their choice to believe or not believe. It doesn't make them less than s person. They are some of my favorite people.

 

On the flip side, some of my friends are Catholic, Buddhist, Christian, Native American, Baptist...I love and accept them all equally.

 

I love them for who they are, not because of their faith.

[autumnnight]

It really has nothing to do with religion. It really has to do with our own inward character regarding our fellow humans. I believe, for example, that every human on this board has value. Therefore, I choose to respect them. I may not agree with every poster, but they - as a fellow human - have value as I have value. So I respect them.

 

A person who chooses not to respect an entire segment of the population without knowing them is usually the type of person we refer to as a bigot or a rcist when they do so based on skin color, sexual orientation, culture, etc. We choose to respect people with whom we disagree every day. So it is not impossible to respect a religious person or an atheist. It is a choice we make and a judgement we make. In essence, we say, "THESE fellow humans do not have value."

[Keenly]

Because the institution of "marriage" has religious ties to it....

 

Like I said, allow gays to marry - but call it a "civil union" and reserve "marriage" for people who value what "marriage" is about.

 

The thing with this gay marriage thing is that it's not about a "right" being denied homosexuals. I already went into extensive detail in the other thread how the benefits and protections afforded in marriage were created for a certain reason and many homosexual marriages will not and do not fall within that circle. Quite frankly many heterosexual marriages don't even fall within that circle as both husband and wife work and no one is "sacrificing" a thing to stay home, raise the kids and make the family a "home".

 

And lastly, this raises a big issue for many because the LGBT community don't simply want a "right" to get married. They want people who don't agree with gay marriage to compromise their religious beliefs to accommodate LGBT beliefs.

 

Going to a small-time bakery, demanding a gay wedding cake, and suing the people to the brink of destroying their business does not sound like a group of people simply asking for a "right" to be given to them. Especially when the baker told them they would bake them "any" cake EXCEPT a wedding cake. That is NOT discrimination. That is LGBT forcing people to compromise their religious beliefs.

 

 

Denying a service to a customer based on their sexual orientation is in fact discrimination. Might want to brush up on your legal terminology there.

[Shining One]

Because the institution of "marriage" has religious ties to it....

 

Like I said, allow gays to marry - but call it a "civil union" and reserve "marriage" for people who value what "marriage" is about.

As I mentioned in another thread, marriage predates Christianity. Why should the Christian definition of marriage hold any weight?

[Robert Z]

Aside from the complete misinterpretation of that passage and the little dig i didn't miss, you can disrespect me all you like, though you do not even know me. You are certainly not alone.

 

That said, I will continue to respect you.

 

 

I am at a loss at your tone. And if it was a misinterpretation, then why don't you explain it to me?

 

 

I only studied the bible six days a week for 8 years. What would I know.

[autumnnight]

Regarding the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax collector:

 

In Bible times, the Pharisees often liked to go around with their good works and prayers "hanging out for all to see." They were big proponents of outward displays of righteousness. Jesus, being Jesus, knew their hearts, however. He contrasts the Pharisee, who is basically thanking God that he is so good and so much better than the tax collector, with the tax collector, who was humble and said, "God have mercy on me a sinner."

 

His point was not that we Christians should all hide in the corner and not profess our faith. His point was that outward righteousness is pretty much meaningless if the heart is not humble and right. In another passage, he told the Pharisees that they where like fancy, white tombs with dead men's bones in them. He wasn't fond of the self-righteous religious elite (with good reason).

 

So using that parable to say Christians should just keep all their religious notions to themselves is an inaccurate intepretation.

 

As far as the rest goes, it does not take a rocket scientist to see the absolute disdain several people on this thrad have for anyone who professes faith. When they say "religious people do not deseve respect," they are including me in that group. And reading around the forum at large, let's just say I know that if you have zero respect for me as a fellow human, you are certainly not alone.

 

Regardless, I do believe that you have value as a person, and even though we disagree about things, I believe that you are a worthwhile individual, I read your posts, especially about your personal life and desire for companionship, with interest, and sincerely hope that you do find someone who fits that bill. I guess, overall, I wish you well. And that is true even if you find me worthless.

[writergal]

It really has nothing to do with religion. It really has to do with our own inward character regarding our fellow humans. I believe, for example, that every human on this board has value. Therefore, I choose to respect them. I may not agree with every poster, but they - as a fellow human - have value as I have value. So I respect them.

 

A person who chooses not to respect an entire segment of the population without knowing them is usually the type of person we refer to as a bigot or a rcist when they do so based on skin color, sexual orientation, culture, etc. We choose to respect people with whom we disagree every day. So it is not impossible to respect a religious person or an atheist. It is a choice we make and a judgement we make. In essence, we say, "THESE fellow humans do not have value."

 

I find that statement ironic, as you have chosen to disrespect Atheists as a whole group, and that you choose to uphold your religious faith above people of non-faith as the right way. Just find that very interesting because Atheists don't push their disbelief onto religious believers as far as I know. Atheists don't evangelize their non-faith or protest causes with their non-faith the way that religious people do.

[autumnnight]

I find that statement ironic, as you have chosen to disrespect Atheists as a whole group, and that you choose to uphold your religious faith above people of non-faith as the right way. Just find that very interesting because Atheists don't push their disbelief onto religious believers as far as I know. Atheists don't evangelize their non-faith or protest causes with their non-faith the way that religious people do.

 

I do not have any disrespect for atheists, and I challenge you to find the post where I made any such statement. I do not agree with their assertion that there is no God, but I certainly respect them. They are people of value whether I agree with them on everything or not.

 

Do you believe that in order for someone to be worthy of your respect, they must agree with you about everything?

[writergal]

I do not have any disrespect for atheists, and I challenge you to find the post where I made any such statement. I do not agree with their assertion that there is no God, but I certainly respect them. They are people of value whether I agree with them on everything or not.

 

Do you believe that in order for someone to be worthy of your respect, they must agree with you about everything?

 

I believe that people need to earn respect and trust, and not receive it freely.

 

 

I've given plenty of conservative, religious people a chance at friendship and dating; only to have those relationships end, because our values and belief systems clash.

 

 

I can't respect a person who refuses to concede that their way is not the *right* way, but *one* possible way. And my experience with religious people is that they refuse to acknowledge that their way isn't the right way. They can't do it, especially religious, conservative people.

[autumnnight]

I believe that people need to earn respect and trust, and not receive it freely.

 

 

I've given plenty of conservative, religious people a chance at friendship and dating; only to have those relationships end, because our values and belief systems clash.

 

 

I can't respect a person who refuses to concede that their way is not the *right* way, but *one* possible way. And my experience with religious people is that they refuse to acknowledge that their way isn't the right way. They can't do it, especially religious, conservative people.

 

 

If you choose to disrespect people you have not met based on the experiences you have had with people you have met, I can understand that.

 

And honestly, without getting too specific, there are times when I shake my head at fellow Christian's behavior and attitudes and think, "THAT is why no one can stand us."

[writergal]

If you choose to disrespect people you have not met based on the experiences you have had with people you have met, I can understand that.

 

And honestly, without getting too specific, there are times when I shake my head at fellow Christian's behavior and attitudes and think, "THAT is why no one can stand us."

 

It's not an issue of disrespect though. It's an issue of disagreement.

 

 

I disagree with the lens that the Republican, religious right use to view the world through. And when I engage in discussions with people from that group, their "my way or the highway" attitude only confirms my belief that it would be impossible for me to have any kind of friendship because our belief systems clash. That doesn't make me a bad person to know what my standards and limits are, with regards to the types of people I choose as friends. It boils down to preference. I prefer not to be friends with people who are religious or conservative.