The Buddhism Thread

[unsqueegees]

Its a philosophy

[denise_xo]

I think it is a belief system to the extent that it incorporates some concepts that, at least currently, are only accessible through 'belief'. One example would be 'reincarnation'. You either believe in reincarnation, or you don't.

[drakewrites]

I read somewhere online something that went like this, and it's stuck with me ever since:

 

"Religion is faith. Philosophy is mind. Buddhism is both; it's faith in mind."

[Titanwolf]

Religion I think.

[mercy]

I read somewhere online something that went like this, and it's stuck with me ever since:

 

"Religion is faith. Philosophy is mind. Buddhism is both; it's faith in mind."

 

WOW! I really really like this definition!

 

I wish I knew who authored it. I googled it and not one hit came up.

 

Maybe my zen teacher will know.

Edited September 21, 2012 by mercy

[venusianx13]

Buddhism can be either, and both a philosophy and a religion. The Sutra teachings are practical, and are for everyone. Those who use the Sutra teachings to guide them tend to see Buddhism as a philosophy. The tantra teachings, on the other hand, are where ritual practices and such come in. You acquire a foundation through living your life the way the Sutra teachings guide you, through wisdom, compassion, and love. The Tantra teachings are more spiritual in nature, and require faith.

 

Hope this helps!

[Hawaii50]

It is certainly NOT a religion, and that's what makes it so much better.

 

Instead of pointing fingers, or spreading dogma, taxing people... It encourages you to look with in yourself via introspective meditation and acceptance.

[TaraMaiden]

I believe it is a way of life.

 

Its a philosophy

 

I read somewhere online something that went like this, and it's stuck with me ever since:

 

"Religion is faith. Philosophy is mind. Buddhism is both; it's faith in mind."

 

Religion I think.

 

It is certainly NOT a religion, and that's what makes it so much better.

 

Instead of pointing fingers, or spreading dogma, taxing people... It encourages you to look with in yourself via introspective meditation and acceptance.

 

All the above points are correct.

 

However: denise_xo reincarnation is only considered a true concept within Tibetan Buddhism, and even then, only for the Elite "enlightened" Cognoscenti (). An obvious example would be His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who is not a representative of Buddhism right across the board, but a religious leader of only one specific sect. But he's probably the most prominent and well-known Buddhist monk in the world, true dat.

 

Buddhism doesn't require that you 'believe' anything.

What Buddhism requires is that you examine for yourself, all matters placed before you, and through scrutiny, research, questioning and examination, it is to be hoped that you would arrive at one of three conclusions:

 

One: That whatever you have examined, scrutinised, researched, questioned and examined sits well with you and runs in line with your principles and understanding - so you hold it as your truth, within your heart and mind, and as such, strive to adhere to it, as best you can, all the time.

 

Two: That whatever you have examined, scrutinised, researched, questioned and examined does NOT sit well with you and does not run in line with your principles and understanding - so you decide to leave it alone, and not engage with it - always in the sound awareness and acceptance that for others it may be their very 'raison d'etre' and that therefore it is THEIR truth and one which they are entitled to hold dear within their heart and mind.

 

Three: That whatever you have examined, scrutinised, researched, questioned and examined, you still cannot currently take in, comprehend, get your head round, engage with or absorb - so that it's perfectly OK to leave it aside for now, until such time (if ever) that your understanding of it is deepened and you begin to see its reasoning. It's perfectly acceptable and reasonable to use the words "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" providing your mind is open to new information.

 

Buddhism is a path to enlightenment; The Buddha clearly stated, "I come to teach the origin of Stress, and the Cessation of Stress."

providing we hear his teachings and apply the criteria above, we can let go and drop Stress, and know what Being Awake is like.

[M30USA]

Whatever Buddhism is, it doesn't save us from the consequences of our corrupted hearts.

[TaraMaiden]

That's because we don't have 'corrupted hearts'. Nobody has.

 

Besides which, the 'heart' isn't important. The Mind' is. And in Buddhism, we take responsibility ourselves, for our own continued practice, we don't put it 'out there'. The buck stops 'here'.

Mind - is what matters - and within our Mind, we discern what the Buddha taught, and work through that, on ourselves.

[irin]

i find it most fascinating. i wish i new more about it. the only thing thats put me off, it the playing music/dancing, and im not sure about this but not drinking tea or coffee. is that right?

 

:o excuse my ignorance. i need to find a book about buddhism.

[Hawaii50]

i find it most fascinating. i wish i new more about it. the only thing thats put me off, it the playing music/dancing, and im not sure about this but not drinking tea or coffee. is that right?

 

:o excuse my ignorance. i need to find a book about buddhism.

 

Entering The Stream

 

Been uphill ever since.

[TaraMaiden]

i find it most fascinating. i wish i new more about it. the only thing thats put me off, it the playing music/dancing, and im not sure about this but not drinking tea or coffee. is that right?

 

yes.

Aaand...no.

 

Those come under the precepts originally given to monks (of which there are several hundred) but laypeople generally strive to adhere to the first 5, and keep a further 3 for feast days and holy days.

 

here they all are:

The Eight Precepts:

1. I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures. (do not kill)

 

2.I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given. (do not steal)

 

3. I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity.(do not indulge in unwise sexual practice. *Notice that this is a broad-spectrum counsel. It doesn't condemn homosexuality, for example*).

 

4. I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech. (do not lie).

 

5. I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness. (beware of intoxicating substances for reasons given. SOME - but certainly by no means ALL - Buddhists sometimes classify cigarettes tea and coffee as stimulants. but others consider this to be a little extreme....).

 

6.I undertake the precept to refrain from eating at the forbidden time (i.e., after noon). (this makes you lethargic during afternoon meditation, and causes stomach rumblings, digestion problems and sleepiness...)

 

7. I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics. (this is indulging in 'earthly pleasures' and is equally discouraged in any monastic environment... it just teaches you to not abandon yourself to situations that might lead to reckless behaviour. )

 

8. I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place. (Most laypeople slept on the floor, on mats or simple cloths. For a monk to accept something literally more elevated [structurally and metaphorically] was deemed to be egotistic....)

 

Trust me when I tell you, whern HH the Dalai lama is housed in a hotel on his trips around the world, he doesn't sleep on the floor.

You take what you're given, and count it as just another place to lay your head.

 

Remember these originally were precepts for the ordained: 6, 7 and 8 are to try to gain an understanding that attachment to worldly pleasures is a distraction from the path, and that seeking comfort, simply because many see you as holy and privileged, is unskilful.

 

At the time of writing, Monks and Mendicants were widely respected and looked up to as Holy Men.

The buddha taught that to take advantage of such respect was not good practice.

 

:o:o excuse my ignorance. i need to find a book about buddhism.

Absolutely no apology necessary. If you'd like a book, let me know. I can give you some leads....

Edited October 10, 2012 by TaraMaiden

[TaraMaiden]

Entering The Stream

 

Been uphill ever since.

 

Excellent book.

Also:

What the Buddha Taught

 

This one also....

 

And this trilogy.

[GorillaTheater]

3. I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity

 

5. I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.

 

7. I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.

 

More overlap with Southern Baptists than I would have guessed.

 

Except for the "cosmetics" part.

[TaraMaiden]

Remember these were originally for ordained members.

Laypeople are expected to raise families responsibly and with good morals. Sex wasn't off the agenda. But certain aspects of sexual behaviour were certainly discouraged... sex with minors, sex with those incapable of rational thought, those who were betrothed or married to others, that kind of thing.....

 

Having a little drink or two isn't forbidden - but excess is discouraged. You've only got to watch highly inebriated people to see why!

[pie2]

Religion I think.

 

It is certainly NOT a religion

 

All the above points are correct.

 

?

 

How were all of the above points correct, when they contradict each other?

 

I think the OP's original question depends on the definition of "religion". I believe that Buddhism is a religion. Durkheim has a great definition, imo:

 

The sociologist Durkheim, in his seminal book The Elementary Forms of the Religious Life, defined religion as a "unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things". By sacred things he meant things "set apart and forbidden — beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a Church, all those who adhere to them". Sacred things are not, however, limited to gods or spirits. On the contrary, a sacred thing can be "a rock, a tree, a spring, a pebble, a piece of wood, a house, in a word, anything can be sacred". Religious beliefs, myths, dogmas and legends are the representations that express the nature of these sacred things, and the virtues and powers which are attributed to them

[parismilton]

yes, Buddhism is a religion, its has its origin many years back in Gaya city of India.

[TaraMaiden]

?

 

How were all of the above points correct, when they contradict each other?

 

I think the OP's original question depends on the definition of "religion". I believe that Buddhism is a religion.

Personally, I would agree with you; However, many 'purists' decry this definition because there is no Central Omnipotent, eternal deity.

 

Buddhism is a religion because its devotees adhere to it as a serious vocational calling: There are monks, temples and specific 'Holy days'.

It's also a philosophy, because Buddhism focuses on understanding the Mind, and other factors which entail examining Mind machinations. There is no outside 'power' or God we have to be responsible or answerable to...

 

I think Buddhism is both a Religion and a Philosophy. In fact, to me, Buddhism is a way of life.

 

I'm often met with comments like, "You can't possibly be Buddhist if you get angry" (Yes, I can....) or "Huh, some Buddhist you are! I thought Buddhists were supposed to be all love and peace?!" (Isn't everyone?!) and more amusingly, "Why is the Buddha fat?" (He wasn't...!)

[irin]

yes.

Aaand...no.

 

Those come under the precepts originally given to monks (of which there are several hundred) but laypeople generally strive to adhere to the first 5, and keep a further 3 for feast days and holy days.

 

here they all are:

The Eight Precepts:

1. I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures. (do not kill)

 

2.I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given. (do not steal)

 

3. I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity.(do not indulge in unwise sexual practice. *Notice that this is a broad-spectrum counsel. It doesn't condemn homosexuality, for example*).

 

4. I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech. (do not lie).

 

5. I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness. (beware of intoxicating substances for reasons given. SOME - but certainly by no means ALL - Buddhists sometimes classify cigarettes tea and coffee as stimulants. but others consider this to be a little extreme....).

 

6.I undertake the precept to refrain from eating at the forbidden time (i.e., after noon). (this makes you lethargic during afternoon meditation, and causes stomach rumblings, digestion problems and sleepiness...)

 

7. I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics. (this is indulging in 'earthly pleasures' and is equally discouraged in any monastic environment... it just teaches you to not abandon yourself to situations that might lead to reckless behaviour. )

 

8. I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place. (Most laypeople slept on the floor, on mats or simple cloths. For a monk to accept something literally more elevated [structurally and metaphorically] was deemed to be egotistic....)

 

Trust me when I tell you, whern HH the Dalai lama is housed in a hotel on his trips around the world, he doesn't sleep on the floor.

You take what you're given, and count it as just another place to lay your head.

 

Remember these originally were precepts for the ordained: 6, 7 and 8 are to try to gain an understanding that attachment to worldly pleasures is a distraction from the path, and that seeking comfort, simply because many see you as holy and privileged, is unskilful.

 

At the time of writing, Monks and Mendicants were widely respected and looked up to as Holy Men.

The buddha taught that to take advantage of such respect was not good practice.

 

 

Absolutely no apology necessary. If you'd like a book, let me know. I can give you some leads....

 

so if i become a Buddhist i can still dance and sing, and drink mildly of course, others things im happy with im celibate.

[TaraMaiden]

Sure. Your choice.

All we recommend is to think about why those recommendations were given in the first place. Buddhism is all about implementing the practice. There's no judgement, no great big guilt-stick, no retribution, no wagging finger.... Just you. To decide whether a course of action is skilful - or not. The only person you're ever accountable to, is yourself.

But oddly, that doesn't let you off the hook...

 

You begin a course of action, and then after a while, you assess how much good - or otherwise - it's doing you.

 

"Is it helping - or hindering me?"

 

Does this enhance my practice or detract from my Effort?"

"Why am I choosing this course of action? How does it make me feel?"

 

The thing about the precepts is that they are NOT 'Commandments'. They are recommendations of courses of Action to follow in order to live a wholesome Life.

Whether you go with them, and to what extent, is entirely up to you, as a layperson.

 

But whatever consequences arise, then you have to evaluate the skill of having engendered those consequences through your decisions.

And they might be very good.

 

Or otherwise.

 

Up to you.

[pie2]

Personally, I would agree with you; However, many 'purists' decry this definition because there is no Central Omnipotent, eternal deity.

 

Buddhism is a religion because its devotees adhere to it as a serious vocational calling: There are monks, temples and specific 'Holy days'.

It's also a philosophy, because Buddhism focuses on understanding the Mind, and other factors which entail examining Mind machinations. There is no outside 'power' or God we have to be responsible or answerable to...

 

I think Buddhism is both a Religion and a Philosophy. In fact, to me, Buddhism is a way of life.

 

Well, that seems to make sense to me

 

I'm often met with comments like, "You can't possibly be Buddhist if you get angry" (Yes, I can....) or "Huh, some Buddhist you are! I thought Buddhists were supposed to be all love and peace?!" (Isn't everyone?!) and more amusingly, "Why is the Buddha fat?" (He wasn't...!)

 

I think most Christians can relate to the hypocrisy accusations But I think the challenge a Buddhist faces is much greater (too great!, imo).

 

A Christian's burden is light, as Jesus said. Our debts have been paid.

[TaraMaiden]

Spring water: Clear, cooling, infinitely transparent, refreshing, and evocative of a mountain meadow, with an alpine backdrop, clear blue sky and wild flowers.

 

Just like the adverts for Evian.....

 

But under the microscope, in laboratory analysis, Spring water contains trace elements, minerals and all kinds of components which render it pure, thirst-quenching and quite unlike anything you can get out of a tap.

 

Now, I don't pretend to know everything about Buddhism

I never can, and never will.

There are discursive elements of Buddhism I simply cannot get my head round, because some of the teachings are extremely complex.

 

In his Simsapa Sutta, the Buddha relates how plentiful his teachings are.

And just as nobody can count the individual leaves on the tree, so it is impossible to know, read and understand everything.

 

Because in the end, protracted cogitation and the quest for complete discernment of everything, takes us away from the spring water-like clarity of every-day practice.

In essence, while we scoop the water from the mountain spring, to quench our thirst, we don't stop to think about what it contains, what elements are present, what minerals, why it is thus flavoured....

We drink it because we're thirsty, and it's refreshing.

 

So it is with what the Buddha taught.

 

There is much underlying complexity and much required effort in scrutinising everything Buddhism has to offer, but if we simply want to walk the Buddhist path, all we need to do, is to study the 4 Noble truths, The Eightfold path, and consider the first Five Precepts.

 

That's all.

 

Simple.

[TaraMaiden]

There is another Sutta which gives us complete responsibility in our actions, and it speaks of the information we are bombarded with, and have to absorb.

The Kalama Sutta is perhaps one of the most widely cited suttas but also greatly misunderstood.

 

The Buddha does not exhort us to lay aside stringent doctrine as being too narrow-minded.

He recommends we test everything we see, learn and absorb, for ourselves.

Scrutinise it, examine it thoroughly and leave no stone unturned. use other teachings, doctrines and instructions in comparison, and see how well whatever it is you're studying, stands up to such pressure....

[TaraMaiden]

This passage explains why Buddhists shy away from proselytising...

 

...because the Kalamas had not yet come to accept the Buddha in terms of his unique mission, as the discloser of the liberating truth, it would not have been in place for him to expound to them the Dhamma unique to his own Dispensation: such teachings as the Four Noble Truths, the three characteristics, and the methods of contemplation based upon them. These teachings are specifically intended for those who have accepted the Buddha as their guide to deliverance...

 

In other words, it is more fitting to speak of Buddhist doctrine to those who have expressed a specific interest in doing so. Those whose intention is mere curiosity, or clarification, should just have their points addressed, and no expansion should be following....

 

....after advising the Kalamas not to rely upon established tradition, abstract reasoning, and charismatic gurus, the Buddha proposes to them a teaching that is immediately verifiable and capable of laying a firm foundation for a life of moral discipline and mental purification. He shows that whether or not there be another life after death, a life of moral restraint and of love and compassion for all beings brings its own intrinsic rewards here and now, a happiness and sense of inward security far superior to the fragile pleasures that can be won by violating moral principles and indulging the mind's desires. For those who are not concerned to look further, who are not prepared to adopt any convictions about a future life and worlds beyond the present one, such a teaching will ensure their present welfare....

In other words, what the Buddha does here, is to give them the basic principles, and foundations of leading a good life.

This is not doctrine-specific. it is common sense, and a good way to proceed. it would be applicable to Christian, Muslim, Jew and Buddhist alike. This specific teaching makes no distinctions and cuts through barriers....