My wife doesn't want to work, I'm at the end of my rope

June 28, 2015

I'm married and have 2 kids. I've spent the last 7 years trying to get through an undergraduate degree while working 32+ hours each week. My wife has depression and PTSD and has never worked outside of the home and she uses traditional religious beliefs to justify it. We are in financial trouble right now and my wife expects me to keep trying to come up with more money and we spend everything we get on eating out.

Apart from working 16 hour days at school and work I try to help her with her depression and she constantly has me do random things related to our finances. Like, for instance, selling our stuff at pawn shops or on ebay, making long phone calls to medicaid, multiple calls to our previous auto insurance company to dispute $30 they didn't send back to us, etc. It seems to never end. I seem to be the one to have to do it all since I have the car and since I know how to take care of these things.

It just takes one little thing now that breaks my routine and I get a panic attack. My wife does little around the house since she sleeps in until noon so I frequently wake up trying to find clean laundry, which many times there's none, and then try to rush out the door just to see that there's no easy lunch to take. I wish I could help more with meals and cleaning but I have very little time and the time I'm home is spent talking with her to help her feel better because everyday her world falls apart again.

I'm not sure what to do. I'm 2 summer classes away (6 weeks) from graduating and my grades are in trouble. Many times I can't even concentrate when I go to study and I end up running over to the school gym to try to see if exercise will calm me down and sometimes that helps. I love my wife but I no longer feel hopeful or motivated for my future. I'm pretty sure my career is going to suck as much as schooling has.

June 28, 2015

Is she getting any treatment for her mental health issues?

June 28, 2015

What she needs is to be left butt-naked in the middle of the street and those kids taken from her.

OP, can you give more background, like what are those religious reasons ?

And how did it come to this, how did she get PTSD ?

June 28, 2015

Not currently. We ran out of money to afford therapy. We are waiting for a religious leader to set up couples counseling the church can pay for but it will be with a therapist from LDS Family Services and so he/she'll likely side with the traditional "wife stays home" belief. She's had around 2 years or so of help in the past through LDS Family Services.

June 28, 2015

talk to your teacher about postponement of exam, you have good reason, you do not want to lose out

why you are indulging your wife with meals out, i have no idea, ditto, telling her to stop badgering you over raising bits of money

she must know how you feel, why are you with her?

i think you are enabling her, spoiling her, not putting yourself first ever, while she gets to back you into a corner

i

June 28, 2015

@Radu, We both are Mormon, but I'm going through a faith crisis which has caused some distress to our relationship. Many mormons have traditional views on marriage that the wife should stay home and the husband is the breadwinner. However, other young mormon couples can justify both working, but my wife uses a patriarchal blessing I received which states that she belongs in the home and I should be the sole provider.

Also, the PTSD comes from years of abuse from her childhood.

June 28, 2015

The "traditional" roles that you are upset by can work if the SAHP works around the house. That means she gets up to take care of the kids, makes everybody breakfast, cooks dinner, does your laundry, and makes all the phone calls to various people like Medicaid, the auto insurance company etc. Even though this religious based counseling probably won't give her the message you want to hear -- get a job outside the home -- the counselor should encourage her to pitch in.

If she goes back to work, how much will you have to pay in day care? Right now you need a budget & a partner. If the second income nets you more then it costs for the extra car, the gas to work, day care, the costs of her professional wardrobe, that is one thing but I honestly don't think her getting a PT job will make the impact you need.

Do a budget . . . a real one where you track your spending first then figure out what can be cut & then live within your means.

Hang in there.

June 28, 2015

@darkmoon. I was in denial a lot about the (verbal/emotional and sometimes physical) abuse for a long time and now with kids I have doubts as to whether leaving her is the best choice. Especially since the mormon culture looks down on divorce and usually the males look like the bad guys especially with my religious doubts. I also know divorce doesn't solve all problems in an unhealthy relationships, custody battles and such can be hard as well

June 28, 2015

Thanks d0nnivain. Good point about daycare costs. I'm not sure if there are many jobs that would work with this, but she could work weekends and having her out of the house would actually give me time to work on homework, help with the house, and have time with the kids.

June 28, 2015

I agree with whoever said you need to make a budget and live within it. If you guys are eating out that would be a huge expense that could be cut back on with home cooked meals. If your job is to go to school and work, then hers should be to run the house. Perhaps making a budget and a menu for the weeks dinner, going shopping together and planning out the week would help. Where are the kids if she is sleeping until noon? Who is caring for them? She may have depression but can't keep using that as a crutch to do nothing. I hope she is on medication for that. I'm afraid you are going to burn out and have your own melt down and then what will happen to the kids? Do you have any family near by who could offer some resbit for you and/or your wife?

June 28, 2015

Seems like you are looking for immediate help. Since the timeline is short, I suggest you ask for help from family. I understand hers is useless, so find somebody in your family that can come and help until you are more stable and see if it makes a difference for you. Somebody who can reliably take care of the kids, do laundry and pack you lunch. But make it for a definite period of time from the beginning, so your wife doesn't get worse because the wife inlaws setup can be explosive.

People misunderstand depression. Saying that somebody uses depression as a crutch is like saying to a guy with no legs that he could walk, but he chooses not to. Additionally, helplessness is part of depression, so a task like talking to insurance people may seem huge like a mountain.

Now as far as your future comes, I'd say you are in a tough spot. You married young in a traditional religious environment and had two kids. If your wife didn't express an interest of being a working woman before you got married, I'd say she's in the right to assume you'd follow tradition and probably the pressure she feels is adding to her anxiety. She just didn't expect it. You I assume want a more equal partner and see her working as sharing the heavy lifting. I think you need to stop that conversation for now, and focus on getting her to fully take care of the house. Maybe having her setting some guidelines, having some written schedule will help her navigate the day (include laundry and packing lunch for sure). You won't help her unless you are supportive, and it may seem unfair, but unfortunately it's just reality for you.

For any therapy you are paying for I suggest you find somebody not linked to your church. Look into cognitive behavioral therapy, it works for many for getting exactly the quick and evident results you are looking for like her handling the small stuff.

June 28, 2015

My feeling is that her lack of motivation comes mainly from her mental health issues.

She needs a fresh psychiatric assessment.

The religious issues are another thing entirely.

Try not to lump the two things together.

Take care.

June 28, 2015

Seems like you are looking for immediate help. Since the timeline is short, I suggest you ask for help from family. I understand hers is useless, so find somebody in your family that can come and help until you are more stable and see if it makes a difference for you. Somebody who can reliably take care of the kids, do laundry and pack you lunch. But make it for a definite period of time from the beginning, so your wife doesn't get worse because the wife inlaws setup can be explosive.

People misunderstand depression. Saying that somebody uses depression as a crutch is like saying to a guy with no legs that he could walk, but he chooses not to. Additionally, helplessness is part of depression, so a task like talking to insurance people may seem huge like a mountain

Now as far as your future comes, I'd say you are in a tough spot. You married young in a traditional religious environment and had two kids. If your wife didn't express an interest of being a working woman before you got married, I'd say she's in the right to assume you'd follow tradition and probably the pressure she feels is adding to her anxiety. She just didn't expect it. You I assume want a more equal partner and see her working as sharing the heavy lifting. I think you need to stop that conversation for now, and focus on getting her to fully take care of the house. Maybe having her setting some guidelines, having some written schedule will help her navigate the day (include laundry and packing lunch for sure). You won't help her unless you are supportive, and it may seem unfair, but unfortunately it's just reality for you.

For any therapy you are paying for I suggest you find somebody not linked to your church. Look into cognitive behavioral therapy, it works for many for getting exactly the quick and evident results you are looking for like her handling the small stuff.

Ok. I may have misspoke when I said she used her depression as a crutch. My son has been diagnosed bipolar and major depressive disorder. He definitely has difficulty getting things done, but he is able to get some things done. I still wonder who is taking care of the children when you are not home. Does she prepare them food? It seems like at a minimum she should make meals and wash a load of laundry. Is she medicated? She needs to be working with a psychiatrist. I had to change my sons psychiatrist because I didn't feel like he was actively helping. I pay more for the new psychiatrist, but the medications he has been prescribing are helping more. If she is not working with a psychiatrist and taking medications she might not be able to function at all. The first medication my son was on did not help at all. They don't all work the same. I hope you can find her medical help.

June 28, 2015

Just make sure you divorce her at the 9 year mark and don't get to 10 years. After 10 years, you will have to pay alimony for life.

June 28, 2015

I do hope you have full charge of the finances and checkbook. That is not something I usually advocate, but if she is going to be home, be tossing money away eating out, and not financially contributing, then you need to have full charge of all outgoing money.

June 29, 2015

if your wife has a serious mental issue that has been diagnosed and treated for many years she could try to apply for SSI or SSD. she might not be able to hold down a traditional job, but if she has a medical issue she can still contribute that way. it takes a very long time to get that benefit started though. did you know her issue before your marriage? you really can't fault someone when you enter into something with full knowledge of the problem, or potential problems.

June 29, 2015

@darkmoon. I was in denial a lot about the (verbal/emotional and sometimes physical) abuse for a long time and now with kids I have doubts as to whether leaving her is the best choice. Especially since the mormon culture looks down on divorce and usually the males look like the bad guys especially with my religious doubts. I also know divorce doesn't solve all problems in an unhealthy relationships, custody battles and such can be hard as well

Only god can judge- not the mormons, anglicans, baptists, jews, catholics. etc.

The church I go to has pastor's from 3 differnet religous denominations so we get to hear differing view points on everything, none of us know for sure how the bible should be interpreted.

In the meantime your life is yours to live, don't let church culture dictate the way you live. Never fear the church or the people in it, God is your only fear.

I've read through the replies here and if your wife is insisting on staying home, I agree that she should be handling all these other things like calling medic aid and the insurance company. Put your foot down.(Do mormon woman have to obey their husbands???) She needs to take responsibility for some of these things, and quite frankly she could easy be working from home too!

Does she exercise? The number one way to combat depression is to get off your butt and workout.

Wishing you luck.

June 29, 2015

Just make sure you divorce her at the 9 year mark and don't get to 10 years. After 10 years, you will have to pay alimony for life.

That is not necessarily universally true. Alimony laws vary by state & circumstances. Length of the marriage is only one factor

June 29, 2015

That is not necessarily universally true. Alimony laws vary by state & circumstances. Length of the marriage is only one factor

If it's a marriage over 10 years and she doesn't work, hasn't worked in a while and can't support herself, it will automatically be that. (which is the case for the OP) And to change alimony after it's been established requires a trial, which is expensive and a pain in the butt, and you might lose.

June 29, 2015

How old are your kids?

If they're small, caring for them is a job and a half so not sure I agree with your assessment that she doesn't work. Your expectations may be as big an issue as her depression...

Mr. Lucky

June 29, 2015

Since she's worried about money demand she cook meals at hme.

Don't the LDS have food banks to pick up free food? Do that if it's available.

Tell her no more eating out - it's expensive and adds up to a lot of money every month.

June 29, 2015

OP,

As I understand it Mormons regard family as high priority and nurturing the children should take priority over everything else. That's why there is the emphasis on women not working outside the home - they should certainly be working inside the home.

I am normally against advising people to get into debt but could you chat to the Elders at your church to see if they could give you a loan of some kind just to get your wife the therapy and tide you over while you finish your education?

Also, does your church have anyone who could help your wife about the home as a temporary measure?

Most churches I know have lots of options for helping church members who find themselves temporarily disadvantaged.

Mormons are normally a tight-knit community so don't be afraid to ask.

Good luck. x

June 29, 2015

Looks like there is simply a bad precedent in your marriage. You let her get away with whatever she wants.

I was married 10 years to the mentally ill. It's a hard road being a caregiver and holding things together. I've been there. Compensating when they can't function.. or worse, playing head doctor for all hours of the day/night.

But mental illness or not, she has certain things she has to do.

She can't have old school values only when convenient.

Lay down the law, a few steps at a time. Either through a heart to heart or through unbending directives depending on how your relationship works.

1) She has to cook the meals like an old school wife and have your work lunch ready. Non compliance means no eating out on Friday or whatever day you give her one day off of cooking.

2) You control the budget entirely, with a set amount of discretionary spending money, almost like an allowance, given to her weekly.

3) She has certain housework that needs to be done or no allowance.

Sad, but this type of stuff sometimes is your only way forward with the mentally ill. They need structure and regularity. They need rules and routines.

Whenever I went all freestyle in life with my ex, she would have a lot of breakdowns. The more routine things were, the better she felt.

(Love shackers may notice our fundamental differences that lead to problems. I'm an adventurous free spirit type that abhorres rules, routines and predictability. She needed those very things.)

Under no circumstances should you have a joint account with the mentally ill with any significant money in it. I lost an astonishing amount of money when my ex finally lost it for good and drained our joint account before I knew there was a problem.

Edited June 29, 2015 by loveweary11

June 29, 2015

@Radu, We both are Mormon, but I'm going through a faith crisis which has caused some distress to our relationship. Many mormons have traditional views on marriage that the wife should stay home and the husband is the breadwinner. However, other young mormon couples can justify both working, but my wife uses a patriarchal blessing I received which states that she belongs in the home and I should be the sole provider.

Also, the PTSD comes from years of abuse from her childhood.

She will not get better, because at a subconscious level she is using it as a crutch.

I had depression for 5yrs and i'm intimately familiar with the monster.

She (and the OP as well through using gloves with her) is feeding this monster through inaction.

And all of the excuses fly out the window because she has kids, kids she is responsible for.

She may have suffered abuse, but the example she is giving those kids, the way she treats her husband is passive-aggressive light (very light) form of abuse.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Radu

June 29, 2015

If it's a marriage over 10 years and she doesn't work, hasn't worked in a while and can't support herself, it will automatically be that. (which is the case for the OP) And to change alimony after it's been established requires a trial, which is expensive and a pain in the butt, and you might lose.

No,it depends on the judge. My marriage was 20 years,wife hadn't worked in 9 years. I only had to pay a small monthly alimony for one year.(It's stated in the decree,so there's no need to go back to have it chenged)

I will say that his best interest is to get her working,so there's even less chance of alimony. Right now she has no incentive to work. Cut out the cable,eating out,and any entertainment and watch how fast she finds a job.

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My wife doesn't want to work, I'm at the end of my rope

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