the ONE thing from her past I wish I could forget...

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

maybe I am late to this party, but I don't think you're unreasonable for not accepting this one story. I know several several women who all have told me the same thing- The minute a guy pays for sex and participates in prostitution, they would no longer, ever sleep with that man.

 

 

I don't think this is any different. It is about having a moral compass and pride in yourself to not do such a thing. Someone who does so, is lacking, and not someone I would want to spend my life with. I would peace if I were you. Break up with her and tell her to keep that **** a secret from now on.

[deadelvis]

No, actually - I don't think I can...

 

 

I don't think you two have a good relationship that allows for an open and honest discussion of sex without there being judgment.

 

You have these ideas of what is acceptable and what is depraved. I believe she is trying to re-write her sexual history and interests in a way that will be acceptable to you and that is not possible.

 

Right. Initially she acted very proud of her freaky past and looked forward to a fun and kinky sex life with me. Now she describes her past sexual experiences as "a dark time in her life" and has no interest in anything but vanilla sex. She maintains that she has made "self discoveries" and it's not about re-writing her sexual interests to make me happy. But I tend to think the opposite. She's the same freaky girl she always was, but after feeling judged for her sexual past, now she's trying to be "reformed" for me. But that's the last thing I want. If she was a freak for everyone else, I want her to be a freak for me. The "former-sex-kitten-turned-prude" is not a fun person to date.

[lgspot]

I like this girl!

I think she has a lot of toys in her toy box.

She wants a partner and I would suspect the ride could be fun.

Vanilla is my favorite ice cream too. Sometimes I like it with chocolate or nuts.

I think she's telling you she wants someone she can trust before she lets anyone fully in.

We had a long talk about this yesterday over text message. These are some excerpts from what she said.

 

"To be totally honest, I've tried a lot of sexual situations, always searching for what is going to satisfy me. Searching for what it is that "I'm missing out on" searching for what feels the most fulfilling to me. And it's just not there. I've learned what my deal is, and what the distinction is: I'm curious and interested in (almost) all things sexual. I love hearing about it, I love reading about it, I love learning about all different kinks and what other people are into. Through my exploration, and your challenging questions, I've been able to gather my words and know my truth. I'm kind of Plain Jane. I like one on one, with someone I trust, who turns me on mentally and makes me feel safe. What I really like is actually very simple, it's pleasing the person I love. I'm intimidated by things outside of "normal sex." While I like to watch documentaries on kink, and hear crazy stories, out of all things different and strange, my kink is voyeurism. I like to go to the lifestyle parties and see crazy things in action, but I'd never participate. I'm not into it. It's not fulfilling and I have too much anxiety and worry to be promiscuous. While I enjoy sex itself, I enjoy one in one energy. I have to feel safe. And even when I dated *****, I thought he was lovely and would probably make an amazing life partner for someone, but I ended it because I was afraid of his kink. I'm not interested in it, and it actually scares me. I knew I wasn't into it, without even trying. All it did was scare me. I knew I wouldn't be able to satisfy his sexual tastes, because I'm simply not into it. One of the craziest things I would actually do, is just to go to a sex party with you, absorb the experience, then go home to you, and satisfy only you, with what most people would refer to as vanilla sex. Your questions made me think a lot about my role, feelings, wants, desires, ect. At the end of the day, the thing I'm most comfortable with, and what really turns me on, is making my partner happy.

 

There are things that you could come up with that I wouldn't want to try, and wouldn't turn me on, but I might do them to keep you satisfied.

I've done more than enough exploring to know where I stand.

I'm really quite simple. I just want to please you. And just the thought of threesomes even, doesn't turn me on. All the experimentation I've done, I've forced myself to do. On top of that, I had to use copious amounts of booze to be able to do it, and to get through it.

I'm into listening to other people's stories, peering into their sex lives, and watching documentaries on it. It's curious to me and some of it is shocking, and interesting, but in real life, it's not for me. Having to use booze as a crutch, litteraly needing to be drunk to experiment, says a lot. I'd never be able do any of the things I've tried while sober, and that says a LOT.

 

I'm old enough, I've experimented enough, I've seen enough to know what I'm into. I'm into one on one, the connection that comes with that, the saftey and mental ease that comes with being monogamous with a partner I love --is my thing. Thays my thing. I'm willing to explore a little bit with you, and only you, I can't even stand the thought of a threesome. I don't know what our sexual future holds, years from now, but all I want, and all I'm willing to do, is one on one with you."

[deadelvis]

maybe I am late to this party, but I don't think you're unreasonable for not accepting this one story. I know several several women who all have told me the same thing- The minute a guy pays for sex and participates in prostitution, they would no longer, ever sleep with that man.

 

 

I don't think this is any different. It is about having a moral compass and pride in yourself to not do such a thing. Someone who does so, is lacking, and not someone I would want to spend my life with. I would peace if I were you. Break up with her and tell her to keep that **** a secret from now on.

 

I generally agree with you, but this girl is so amazing I'm willing to bend my rules for her. I'd prefer to not get involved with anyone who has worked as an escort or prostitute, but it was a very short-lived time in her life, and she only actually had sex with one customer, so I'm willing to let this one slide. But overall, yes, I would not date someone who had been involved in prostitution and I wouldn't recommend dating a man who pays for sex either.

[deadelvis]

I like this girl!

I think she has a lot of toys in her toy box.

She wants a partner and I would suspect the ride could be fun.

Vanilla is my favorite ice cream too. Sometimes I like it with chocolate or nuts.

I think she's telling you she wants someone she can trust before she lets anyone fully in.

 

That's what I'm really hoping for. But why did she start out (when we were dating) by painting herself as a self described "freak" and now that we've gotten serious she's pulled the complete 180?

 

I've asked her this exact question and she just falters. She has no answer. I think it's because she so obviously contradicted herself that there's no possible explanation she can give that doesn't seem contrived. I like to think that it's because when we fell in love something changed in her and now she enjoys "vanilla sex" in a way she never did before. But I'm confused as to why she has no interest in exploring outside of that, especially with someone she loves and trusts. That would seem like the perfect opportunity to "get freaky", rather than being drunk with some stranger... like in her past. Like CarrieT said... the things she's sought out in the past don't align with her current stance of wanting to be a "Plain Jane" lover. I'm really confused by this. Did her sexual appetites really change? Is she just pretending to be Plain Jane because she thinks that's what i want? Is she just holding off on the "wild stuff" until she feels more comfortable and safe in the relationship? Is she in denial of her true sexual desires and kinks? Is she changing her attitudes about sex and realizing she regrets her past? And if she's really just changing her attitudes about sex, why so suddenly? And why now, when she's finally found a partner she can safely explore those kinks with? She keeps mentioning using alcohol to allow herself to participate in sexual exploration, but it's important to note that she's not saying "I was so drunk I did something stupid" it's more like "I wanted to try something but I was scared to do it sober so I got drunk first" But she made the decision to do those things while sober, and then she got drunk in order to go through with it. I understand this, but it still sounds like she's actually a lot more freaky than she's allowing herself to be. She definitely has some serious sexual fetishes and desires, but now she's changing her tune. Why? Damn I'm confused by this woman and her sexually bipolar lifestyle.

 

And yes. She is pretty amazing.

Edited June 30, 2015 by deadelvis

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

This reminds me of men who found their women cheating on them, and doing the things they refused with the OM. Anal, blow jobs, etc.. while the man gets vanilla missionary.

 

Also, it reminds me of this girl who told me she ****ed a few men on one night stands, but didn't want to sleep with me because she liked me. She had one night stands, and they were suppose to be full of joy, etc.. blah blah. I just felt it was ****ed to give that much of yourself to someone you know nothing about than to give it to a person who actually cares for you.

 

 

Anyway, I think you should ask yourself to figure out what is exactly bothering you. Is it ****ing for money? Is it the old guy giving her an orgasm and you want to be the one to please her like that? Is it her kinkiness is now turning plain?

 

The latter is possibly the worst one, as experimentation leads you to what you like. Now she knows what she likes, she doesn't need to experiment. If it isn't enough for you, then you're on different pages, sexually. I'd have that honest discussion with her and consider moving on.

[Eighty_nine]

I think this is so unfair.

 

Sex is power, particularly for women. Men have an advantage in almost all other areas of life. If women need to use their sole advantage in a competitive world, with a long-term plan to develop healthier skills for themselves, so be it. Big deal, she had sex for money once.

[TaraMaiden2]

why did she start out (when we were dating) by painting herself as a self described "freak" and now that we've gotten serious she's pulled the complete 180?

 

I've asked her this exact question and she just falters. She has no answer.

 

You really don't know...?

 

You need a diagram?

 

OK.

Version one. Home truths, who or what she actually is. Things she did, things she enjoyed, things she dared that excited her.

 

180 due to her realising you are judging her, find her actions 'depraved' disgusting (actions, not her) and that this is a handicap to the relationship.

So she's trying to appease you by saying "Oh actually, not it was all dreadful, and awful experience, it left me scarred and emotionally hurt, I was in a 'dark place' (good excuse - mentally incapable of thinking straight) and I hated it."

 

What she's saying is:

 

"I love you enough to try to make you believe it was all a huge mistake in my life, so that you'll be understanding, loving, kind and compassionate, leave it all behind, and carry on being with me. Version 'A' obviously left you feeling decidedly averse to my actions, so I have given you version 'B' because I don't want to lose you."

 

You really are the one with the problem.

And now, you are making YOUR problem - HER problem.

The only way she can think of 'solving' the problem, is to try to make you see it all in a different light.

Before, she was liberated.

Now she's a 'victim'.

And she hopes you are willing to stay with her because of that.

 

You really are screwing this up big time.

I suggest this ends, because frankly, you'll never get over it, and you are giving her a complex, where none is due or deserved.

[deadelvis]

...Anyway, I think you should ask yourself to figure out what is exactly bothering you. Is it ****ing for money? Is it the old guy giving her an orgasm and you want to be the one to please her like that? Is it her kinkiness is now turning plain?

 

The latter is possibly the worst one, as experimentation leads you to what you like. Now she knows what she likes, she doesn't need to experiment. If it isn't enough for you, then you're on different pages, sexually. I'd have that honest discussion with her and consider moving on.

 

We've talked about the old man and the prostitution thing. It doesn't really bother me so much that I can't look past it. I do find it gross, but as many people have said... the past is the past. I can't hold something she did in the past against her....

 

But what does really concern me is "her kinkiness now turning plain" as you put it.

 

I'm happy with her, and our sex, but I don't like feeling like she did all this wild kinky stuff with other men and isn't interested in exploring those things with me. She has repeatedly said she enjoyed those things, she even used to ask ask for those things by saying things like "one guy used to tie my hands together like this, please do that next time". But now she has zero interest in anything even remotely kinnky. We never even started to head down that path and now she has lost all interest. When we used to talk about "great sex from the past" her most satisfying encounters were always wild freaky things she tried. She never once said "I like having sex with someone I love" it was always more like "once I went home with a guy from a bar and he tied me up and blah blah blah..." Clearly she likes wild and crazy sex. But just not anymore. Or more realistically... just not with me:(

[deadelvis]

You really don't know...?

 

You need a diagram?

...

Before, she was liberated.

Now she's a 'victim'.

And she hopes you are willing to stay with her because of that.

 

This is what I'm afraid of. I hope this is not true, but I fear it might be.

I wanted her to be liberated. That's the person I fell in love with. Not the victim.

 

I never wanted her to be apologetic for having sexual desires, or feel like a victim.

 

In the beginning she was very "liberated", but once I started trying to explore those aspects of her sexuality, she suddenly flip flopped and became "the victim" and doesn't want to "revisit that dark time in her life". But I really don't think it was "feeling judged" that brought about this change. I never judged her for being freaky, in fact I encourage it. The things she felt judged about were things like having sex for money, cheating on previous partners etc. I never made her feel bad about being a freak. I actually like that.

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

I think this is so unfair.

 

Sex is power, particularly for women. Men have an advantage in almost all other areas of life. If women need to use their sole advantage in a competitive world, with a long-term plan to develop healthier skills for themselves, so be it. Big deal, she had sex for money once.

 

 

 

What's so unfair?

 

 

Society judges men who pay for sex in a very negative way.

 

 

Shall we not judge someone who sold them selves as a sex cushion to some 70 year old man? I'm not saying throw in jail, shave her head, tattoo her forehead... Who are you to say what morals someone can have? I am not judging her for her actions, just I wouldn't date someone who prostituted themselves it would turn my stomach to think about her doing it. Hey that's me.

 

 

I've met many people who have deal breakers. Girls who have told me things like: being overweight, had a threesome, more than X partners, had gay sex, payed for sex. Does the latter stick out in this list?

[deadelvis]

and to be clear. She has said things like "I already experienced those things and learned that it's just not for me. If you really want to experience that type of sex you're going to have to find someone else. I've been there and I've done that, and it's just not something I'm interested in anymore."

 

Meanwhile three months ago she was saying "I want you to tie my hands together and spit in my mouth. That turns me on so much. I dated a guy who always tied my hands together and gagged me. It was such a turn on for me."

 

What. The. Actual. F***.

[eve_k]

What's so unfair?

 

 

Society judges men who pay for sex in a very negative way.

 

 

Shall we not judge someone who sold them selves as a sex cushion to some 70 year old man? I'm not saying throw in jail, shave her head, tattoo her forehead... Who are you to say what morals someone can have? I am not judging her for her actions, just I wouldn't date someone who prostituted themselves it would turn my stomach to think about her doing it. Hey that's me.

 

 

I've met many people who have deal breakers. Girls who have told me things like: being overweight, had a threesome, more than X partners, had gay sex, payed for sex. Does the latter stick out in this list?

 

Anyone paying for sex is a position of power. Anyone selling it is a position of helplessness.

 

At least the way it's being done do far.

 

Sex industry exploits people...

 

So your analogy does not stand.

 

I am allowed to find slave ownership immoral without judging slaves or what they do.

 

The woman in question has history of abuse and so does anyone who ever worked as a prostitute...

 

You are obviously allowed to judge people as you see fit, but selling sex and buying it are not the same thing.

 

Regarding the woman in this thread, it is unclear if she did this as part of her job or kink exploration or both.

 

It's also unclear if her bf is devastated she did this long before she met him or that she promised him he can spit in her mouth than said she changed her mind:)

Edited June 30, 2015 by eve_k

[deadelvis]

One again your post is full of absolutes. Things are not always so cut and dry. You don't know us or the things we've been through.

[TaraMaiden2]

Shall we not judge someone who sold them selves as a sex cushion to some 70 year old man?

There's a difference between an opinion, and being judgemental. The OP is clearly in the latter sector because....

 

....just I wouldn't date someone who prostituted themselves it would turn my stomach to think about her doing it.

 

...in spite of his obvious repulsion at this incident - he is still dating her, yet still has a big problem with her past.

 

This isn't so much a case of her meriting being criticised for her past behaviour - this is more a case of the OP being somewhat hypocritical.

 

If he can't honestly just drop it and move on, and leave her behind, then he needs to deal with it, let it go and move on.

 

But right now, he's fence-sitting in judgement, which is now affecting jher responses to his delving into her past. She's on the defensive, which is understandable.

 

 

 

I've met many people who have deal breakers. Girls who have told me things like: being overweight, had a threesome, more than X partners, had gay sex, payed for sex. Does the latter stick out in this list?

The OP is desperately trying to not let this be a deal-breaker - but I fear he is failing, rapidly......

[Chi townD]

Okay, well...I would say end it with her. You are so hung up on her past and she had a kinky side that she explored but is no longer interested in further exploring them with you.

 

 

You will always think and feel that she could experience these things with someone she wasn't emotionally invested in but here you are in a loving and caring relationship and you're the one getting shut down.

 

 

So, I would say drop her and move on to someone that isn't so "adventurous" with their sexual past.

 

 

I'm not going to say anymore on the matter. Last time I did ended me up in LS jail.

[deadelvis]

I'm through examining her past. And I've let go of the things I find immoral (prostitution, cheating etc.) It wasn't easy, but I did let it go. It's her past, not mine. Her burden to carry. Not mine. However nobody is really touching on my question. Why did she switch from "I want you to spit in my mouth" to "I only like vanilla sex" over the course of two months?

[TaraMaiden2]

This is what I'm afraid of. I hope this is not true, but I fear it might be.

I wanted her to be liberated. That's the person I fell in love with. Not the victim.

 

I never wanted her to be apologetic for having sexual desires, or feel like a victim.

You should have thought of that before giving her the 3rd degree... of course she's going to become defensive - you're putting her on the spot!

 

In the beginning she was very "liberated", but once I started trying to explore those aspects of her sexuality, she suddenly flip flopped and became "the victim" and doesn't want to "revisit that dark time in her life". But I really don't think it was "feeling judged" that brought about this change.

What you think' is not important. How you think she took it, is irrelevant. The fact that I can promise you, she felt it like a judgemental criticism of her past, is sufficient to explain her turn-around...

 

I never judged her for being freaky, in fact I encourage it. The things she felt judged about were things like having sex for money, cheating on previous partners etc. I never made her feel bad about being a freak. I actually like that

.

You don't get this, do you?

You can't have one without the other.

She is 'the whole package'. However you view her, you can't excise one part of her and keep the rest.

This is it. She is who she is and she did what she did.

 

She's flailing and trying to paper over the cracks, but you keep peeling back the edge of the paper.

 

You really do have a decision to make:

 

Can I live with this problem of my own creation, or should I be fair to her - and me - and cut her loose?"

 

Because you cannot separate her from her past.

Kink or no kink, I think you're where the rubber hits the road....

[deadelvis]

But if it was really about feeling judged, then why would she be so resistant to having kinky sex with me? I've been pushing for kinky sex from day one, mainly because she made it clear from the start that kinky sex is what she's into, and I wanted to give her that. So why now is she so resistant? I'm clearly not going to judge her for having wild sex with me. But now she's like "nope, not gonna happen, and if you don't like it, too bad. That's just not my thing." But it's the opposite of what she was saying a few months ago. Peoples sexual fetishes don't change that quickly. And I'm obviously not going to judge her for doing kinky stuff with me...

 

Getting freaky with your boyfriend is worlds away from selling your body or cheating on someone. I'm not asking her to do any of the things I judged her for. I certainly don't want her selling herself to old men or cheating on me. But I'd like to explore some of the stuff she repeatedly stressed she is into.

Edited June 30, 2015 by deadelvis

[TaraMaiden2]

But if it was really about feeling judged, then why would she be so resistant to having kinky sex with me? I've been pushing for kinky sex from day one, mainly because she made it clear from the start that kinky sex is what she's into, and I wanted to give her that. So why now is she so resistant? I'm clearly not going to judge her for having wild sex with me. But now she's like "nope, not gonna happen, and if you don't like it, too bad. That's just not my thing." But it's the opposite of what she was saying a few months ago. Peoples sexual fetishes don't change that quickly. And I'm obviously not going to judge her for doing kinky stuff with me...

 

Getting freaky with your boyfriend is worlds away from selling your body or cheating on someone. I'm not asking her to do any of the things I judged her for. I certainly don't want her selling herself to old men or cheating on me. But I'd like to explore some of the stuff she repeatedly stressed she is into.

 

because she doesn't want to. Because she wouldn't be turned on doing it with you, and she probably needs a type of emotional detachment.

 

That's probably about as close as you will get to the rational explanation.

With you, it isn't arousing, because she's too intimate and familiar with you.

[TaraMaiden2]

It's like 'dressing up' games... some people can do it. Others feel it's false, contrived and forced.

 

I can see their point.

[lgspot]

I think it is a little of the Madonna/whore thing.

She has found something (you) she wants and doesn't want to lose it.

Therefore, better to be good than TOO bad.

I think you need to open your communication a bit more and learn to play together. She sounds too good to lose. IMO

 

That's what I'm really hoping for. But why did she start out (when we were dating) by painting herself as a self described "freak" and now that we've gotten serious she's pulled the complete 180?

 

I've asked her this exact question and she just falters. She has no answer. I think it's because she so obviously contradicted herself that there's no possible explanation she can give that doesn't seem contrived. I like to think that it's because when we fell in love something changed in her and now she enjoys "vanilla sex" in a way she never did before. But I'm confused as to why she has no interest in exploring outside of that, especially with someone she loves and trusts. That would seem like the perfect opportunity to "get freaky", rather than being drunk with some stranger... like in her past. Like CarrieT said... the things she's sought out in the past don't align with her current stance of wanting to be a "Plain Jane" lover. I'm really confused by this. Did her sexual appetites really change? Is she just pretending to be Plain Jane because she thinks that's what i want? Is she just holding off on the "wild stuff" until she feels more comfortable and safe in the relationship? Is she in denial of her true sexual desires and kinks? Is she changing her attitudes about sex and realizing she regrets her past? And if she's really just changing her attitudes about sex, why so suddenly? And why now, when she's finally found a partner she can safely explore those kinks with? She keeps mentioning using alcohol to allow herself to participate in sexual exploration, but it's important to note that she's not saying "I was so drunk I did something stupid" it's more like "I wanted to try something but I was scared to do it sober so I got drunk first" But she made the decision to do those things while sober, and then she got drunk in order to go through with it. I understand this, but it still sounds like she's actually a lot more freaky than she's allowing herself to be. She definitely has some serious sexual fetishes and desires, but now she's changing her tune. Why? Damn I'm confused by this woman and her sexually bipolar lifestyle.

 

And yes. She is pretty amazing.

[CarrieT]

because she doesn't want to. Because she wouldn't be turned on doing it with you, and she probably needs a type of emotional detachment.

 

That's probably about as close as you will get to the rational explanation.

With you, it isn't arousing, because she's too intimate and familiar with you.

 

this ^^ this ^^ this ^^ a thousand times ^^ this ^^

[deadelvis]

 

You don't get this, do you?

You can't have one without the other.

She is 'the whole package'. However you view her, you can't excise one part of her and keep the rest.

This is it. She is who she is and she did what she did.

 

Wrong. You can have a healthy, monogamous relationship and still be kinky and fun in the bedroom. You don't need to be selling your ass on the street corner or getting tied up and F***ed by strangers every night to have a kinky sex life. The past is not an inseparable part of the package. She is who she is. What she did has no bearing on our relationship. The issue is not what she did in the past, but rather what she claims to want in the present, versus what she was telling me she want's (in the present) a few months ago. There's a direct conflict between what she said she wanted last month, and what she said she wants this month.

[deadelvis]

because she doesn't want to. Because she wouldn't be turned on doing it with you, and she probably needs a type of emotional detachment.

 

That's probably about as close as you will get to the rational explanation.

With you, it isn't arousing, because she's too intimate and familiar with you.

 

Right. So it's a turn on with other men, but not with me. I'd rather spend my whole life alone than be in a long term relationship with someone who want's kinky sex, but just not with me. Bye Felicia

 

And honestly, I think in my heart I knew that the whole time and I was just waiting for someone else to say it because I couldn't face it.

 

You couldn't possibly understand how terrible it feels to admit that to myself. That is something I can't live with. I can let go of everything else and feel fine. But that is something I will never be able to live with.

Edited June 30, 2015 by deadelvis