Men and women would be better off romantically if...

[fitnessfan365]

I am a bit biased though, because that is generally my preferred method of dating. I just talk to women, spend time with them, and see where it goes. If I find them attractive, and I enjoy spending time with them without having to f*ck em, then we might be on the road to something more.

 

You're delaying sex and not rushing into a longer term label. But you're still taking women you find physically attractive out on dates. As you get to know them, I'm guessing you're flirting, building a bit of sexual tension, and kissing/making out if there's chemistry. So in your mind, she's a "friend with potential" because you're not f**king her and you're not exclusive. However, you're still dating her.

 

The OP on the other hand is saying to have no dating context of any kind and to be 100% platonic. Realistically though, if you were to be a woman's therapist for guy problems, her crying shoulder, and the overly nice guy at her beck and call, she'd never see you as a romantic possibility. You have to at least build some sort of baseline sexual tension and attraction.

[MissBee]

There is no formula for romance, sorry.

 

Usually "friends first" happens naturally, i.e. you were truly friends, for example, knowing the person through school, work, church, some other way and you were genuinely just friends and then over time things develop. It is almost never a case of meeting someone, being attracted, then saying "Let's be friends first...." that is the strange.

 

You're friends first or you're not.

 

Some people have friendships that then turn romantic. Other people meet someone and know they are attracted to them and it is immediately romantic and not some "let's be friends" deal. Lasting or at least good relationships can come from either, but I don't think one is "better off being friends first." Sometimes that's simply not possible or necessary.

[LookAtThisPOst]

You're delaying sex and not rushing into a longer term label. But you're still taking women you find physically attractive out on dates. As you get to know them, I'm guessing you're flirting, building a bit of sexual tension, and kissing/making out if there's chemistry. So in your mind, she's a "friend with potential" because you're not f**king her and you're not exclusive. However, you're still dating her.

 

The OP on the other hand is saying to have no dating context of any kind and to be 100% platonic. Realistically though, if you were to be a woman's therapist for guy problems, her crying shoulder, and the overly nice guy at her beck and call, she'd never see you as a romantic possibility. You have to at least build some sort of baseline sexual tension and attraction.

 

Sometimes I throw out a sexual tension building comment her way. One time she was talking about some bed wear (non-lingerie bed shirt with short bottoms (female boxers?) she purchased. She wanted my opinion on it.

 

I said, "Try it on and text me a picture."

 

Instead, she took a picture of it hanging on a hook, lol. I commented how it was pretty decent looking, but she had second thoughts that it looked too busy.

 

Later that evening, we got together as we hadn't talked in a while, met up for an appetizer. When I was at her car, she had the outfit in her car and she showed it to me...in person. I had mentioned again, I mentioned again about having her wear it and show me, and she kind of smiled and said, "You already said to meee, IRCCCCCC"

 

Most times she doesn't make a comment or smiles awkwardly at me if I attempt to use some kind of double entendre or subtle innuendo, making me uncertain if it went over her head or not. lol. She's very conservative sexually, so *shrugs* dunno. But, I'm not going to be a pig about it either.

[fitnessfan365]

Sometimes I throw out a sexual tension building comment her way. One time she was talking about some bed wear (non-lingerie bed shirt with short bottoms (female boxers?) she purchased. She wanted my opinion on it.

 

I said, "Try it on and text me a picture."

 

Instead, she took a picture of it hanging on a hook, lol. I commented how it was pretty decent looking, but she had second thoughts that it looked too busy.

 

Later that evening, we got together as we hadn't talked in a while, met up for an appetizer. When I was at her car, she had the outfit in her car and she showed it to me...in person. I had mentioned again, I mentioned again about having her wear it and show me, and she kind of smiled and said, "You already said to meee, IRCCCCCC"

 

Most times she doesn't make a comment or smiles awkwardly at me if I attempt to use some kind of double entendre or subtle innuendo, making me uncertain if it went over her head or not. lol. She's very conservative sexually, so *shrugs* dunno. But, I'm not going to be a pig about it either.

 

Friends first done right - The guy is very playful and sexually assertive. When there's chemistry he acts on it by kissing her and slowly seducing her over time. But he doesn't push for sex right away by keeping all initial dates public. He also lets her hint at/initiate the exclusive relationship talk. Since he's taking things slow, the guy is still technically a friend she's getting to know. However, there's romantic groundwork and that's why she feels attraction and will push for more when she's ready. In my opinion, this is what women on dating sites mean when they say "friends first". It doesn't mean that she literally wants a friend. After all, she wouldn't be on a dating site if she didn't want romance. It just means she doesn't want sex right away or an instant relationship.

 

Friends first done wrong - Unfortunately this is the camp you fall into OP. The guy will literally act like a platonic friend. He pushes for friendly get-togethers and doesn't make it clear they're actual dates. He rarely if ever flirts. He never tries to get physical or kiss her at all. So she ends up seeing him as just a friend instead of a friend with potential. This is why your random attempts to flirt are landing like a lead balloon with this woman. You've acted like just a friend for so long, that she's not attracted to you in that way and probably never will be.

 

It's ironic. I am a strong advocate of friends first done right. This is actually how I date. Like you, I want a strong connection and to genuinely like the woman I have sex with. But my point is that if you don't lay that romantic groundwork from the very beginning, you'll never be a guy she wants more with. This is what happens to guys in the "friendzone".

Edited July 2, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[GemmaUK]

The lady you are posting about, she is looking for friends, literally. Don't be the next guy who secretly wishes to date her.

 

The next lady just wanted to know first off it you were interested in a date with her or just friendship.

If she had said she was busy first she would never have got the answer and she was curious..is all.

 

 

Saying a line like 'send me a pic of you in that' is not far from the 'what colour knickers are you wearing?' line and is obvious but also is doesn't promote sexual tension.

It can later down the line but from someone who you either don't hardly know or don't think of like that then it'll never work. It's cheap and tacky.

 

I agree friends first is the best way..but that's acquaintance type friends where you can feel the sexual tension between each other. No words need saying (hence no 'send me a pic in that').

You see each other around and about and eminate toward each other equally.

 

FF's post is good - any man who sees friends first as totally platonic type friends - well - no juices are gonna flow..boredom will ensue..

 

 

I have to add, I always did think you were IRC reincarnated..I see you are! (post #30). A delayed 'Welcome back!' I've never seen you respond to anyone asking before - but hey, now we know! :

[fitnessfan365]

^^^

 

I will say though that it took me awhile to figure out what 'friends first" really meant. When I was younger, I saw the term "friend" as platonic. Instead of using "friends first" it would be easier if women would simply say "I'm looking for romance but want to take my time and not rush into sex or a relationship right away." Then at least that way guys like the OP know to still be romantic, but just slow their roll a bit.

[GemmaUK]

^^^

 

I will say though that it took me awhile to figure out what 'friends first" really meant. When I was younger, I saw the term "friend" as platonic. Instead of using "friends first" it would be easier if women would simply say "I'm looking for romance but want to take my time and not rush into sex or a relationship right away." Then at least that way guys like the OP know to still be romantic, but just slow their roll a bit.

 

And?

 

We are wired differently. You learned the difference - all good - you took the time out to find out, ask or think about it.

 

I had a few shocking experiences lately.

The words 'intimacy' and 'feminine' meant to a man two entirely different things than they do to a woman.

I have asked a few men about this subject and so far..these men are getting it.

 

'Intimacy' as a word was seen by one guy I know as sex - just sex and nothing more than sex.

'Feminine' was seen by another guy as uber plunging cleavage with bazookas on show minus nipples or even better if one or both fell out.

 

If these two guys got the meaning so wrong (compared to what women see them as) then how do many men see these words?

 

Communication balls up!!

 

 

 

 

.

[LookAtThisPOst]

See, the problem this woman faces is that she wants to make friends in general, but has no interest in dating...so every man she's been with just cut ties with her because she doesn't want to date them.

 

This has been a source of frustration with her for quite some time.

 

She's like "dammit", all these men want to date me, NOT be my friend! What's up with that?

 

It's ironic. I am a strong advocate of friends first done right. This is actually how I date. Like you, I want a strong connection and to genuinely like the woman I have sex with. But my point is that if you don't lay that romantic groundwork from the very beginning, you'll never be a guy she wants more with. This is what happens to guys in the "friendzone".

 

Actually, with this woman, I did just that...made a move to kiss her only to get the hug instead. I acted as such on the third date.

[fitnessfan365]

And?

 

We are wired differently. You learned the difference - all good - you took the time out to find out, ask or think about it.

 

I had a few shocking experiences lately.

The words 'intimacy' and 'feminine' meant to a man two entirely different things than they do to a woman.

I have asked a few men about this subject and so far..these men are getting it.

 

'Intimacy' as a word was seen by one guy I know as sex - just sex and nothing more than sex.

'Feminine' was seen by another guy as uber plunging cleavage with bazookas on show minus nipples or even better if one or both fell out.

 

If these two guys got the meaning so wrong (compared to what women see them as) then how do many men see these words?

 

Communication balls up!!

 

 

 

 

.

 

This is why men and women are so different. Women like to speak in innuendos and make guys read between the lines. Whereas men are very direct and practical. If more women would spell out exactly what they want, men would have an easier time.

 

Don't say "friends first". Say, "I want to take it slow, build a romantic connection, and not rush into sex or a relationship right away".

[LookAtThisPOst]

I have this one female friend that had to wind up going in reclusiveness because every single one of her male friends from Meetup wanted to date her. She'd go out with them as friends, but they'd start getting touchy with her to th point where the people at the Meetups were thinking they were a couple. Or if he made a move at the movie theater, she'd skip a chair between them after having come back from the bathroom...drove her crazy! LOL Must been like 4 or 5 guys that this happened to. She simply wasn't physically attracted to them. She wound up just staying in on the weekends.

 

And these were min in their late 40s /early 50s, so they have some dating experience under their belts.

[LookAtThisPOst]

This is why men and women are so different. Women like to speak in innuendos and make guys read between the lines. Whereas men are very direct and practical. If more women would spell out exactly what they want, men would have an easier time.

 

Don't say "friends first". Say, "I want to take it slow, build a romantic connection, and not rush into sex or a relationship right away".

 

I did this with a woman, but when she said "No Sorry" I cut ties with her. When we bumped into each other later, she said I hurt her feelings by cutting ties with her like I did.

 

But, I was wondering if it's a dick move to cut ties with a woman, completely, that you want to date? It's almost saying, "Screw you, I don't want to be your friend!" in their eyes, but without actually saying it.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Saying a line like 'send me a pic of you in that' is not far from the 'what colour knickers are you wearing?' line and is obvious but also is doesn't promote sexual tension.

It can later down the line but from someone who you either don't hardly know or don't think of like that then it'll never work. It's cheap and tacky.

 

Actually, I know her pretty well enough to say what I said.

[GemmaUK]

See, the problem this woman faces is that she wants to make friends in general, but has no interest in dating...so every man she's been with just cut ties with her because she doesn't want to date them.

 

This has been a source of frustration with her for quite some time.

 

She's like "dammit", all these men want to date me, NOT be my friend! What's up with that?

 

 

 

Actually, with this woman, I did just that...made a move to kiss her only to get the hug instead. I acted as such on the third date.

 

But she was looking for friends and you appeared to know that (?) ..and third date is way too slow for a kiss.

If a kiss is good sparks can fly.

[Phoe]

I actually have no particular opinion on this, I say that people should do what feels right.

 

I've had exes who I had been friends with to start with, and over time we ended up liking each other. Other times I have dated a man straight off the bat.

 

I don't think either is particularly more or less effective.

[LookAtThisPOst]

But she was looking for friends and you appeared to know that (?) ..and third date is way too slow for a kiss.

If a kiss is good sparks can fly.

 

Well, that's just an opinion, Gemma. Some will disagree.

[GemmaUK]

Actually, I know her pretty well enough to say what I said.

Which would imply it worked and you are dating.

Sorry, you may well know her but she was not attracted to you - no matter what you know of her.

You could have already had sex but her response was 'no way Jose!'.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I actually have no particular opinion on this, I say that people should do what feels right.

 

I've had exes who I had been friends with to start with, and over time we ended up liking each other. Other times I have dated a man straight off the bat.

 

I don't think either is particularly more or less effective.

 

True, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. LOL

[fitnessfan365]

Actually, with this woman, I did just that...made a move to kiss her only to get the hug instead. I acted as such on the third date.

 

After that happened you should have told her "Call me if you change your mind, but I have no interest in friendship". Then walked away from her.

 

I mean let's be honest. Right now you're pretending to be alright with friendship while you secretly pine for more. However, when she rejected you on "date three" she was communicating that she didn't see you that way. So all sticking around will do is make you more and more frustrated as time goes on. It would be great if life worked like it did in the movies and TV. But in reality, it's better just to focus on a woman you can have romantic chemistry with from the get go.

[LookAtThisPOst]

But in reality, it's better just to focus on a woman you can have romantic chemistry with from the get go.

 

Unfortunately, that rarely happens with me. *shrug*, so I suppose that's why I feel a friendship bound for romance is something I'm counting on.

[GemmaUK]

Well, that's just an opinion, Gemma. Some will disagree.

 

 

I agree.

It must just be me but when a man kisses me good my bits get all a flutter!

It's a fantastic feeling so it's a shame that it's just a me thing or a 'only some people' thing.

Again though. it's another realm that good relationships have come from for me.

Good kissers have generally been good in bed, great friends and partners to spend time with too.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I agree.

It must just be me but when a man kisses me good my bits get all a flutter!

It's a fantastic feeling so it's a shame that it's just a me thing or a 'only some people' thing.

Again though. it's another realm that good relationships have come from for me.

Good kissers have generally been good in bed, great friends and partners to spend time with too.

 

Oh, I'm indeed a good kisser. ;-) So I've been told, at least from the women I dated. lol But that's an entirely diff. convo. altogether.

[fitnessfan365]

Unfortunately, that rarely happens with me. *shrug*, so I suppose that's why I feel a friendship bound for romance is something I'm counting on.

 

Think of it this way. Friendship = romance without a definition.

 

So from the very start ask a woman out on an actual date. If the date goes well and you're attracted, go for a kiss. Then from that point out, just keep planning public dates, slowly escalating the physical, and keep getting to know her. As things heat up, then finally start bringing sex into the picture and eventually let her bring up being exclusive.

 

This way you're still being her "friend" since you two aren't in a relationship yet. But you aren't "just a friend" if you get my meaning. You're a friend with romantic potential which is where you want to be. But if you just keep doing "friendly hang outs" and never flirt or get physical at all, you'll never be in a romantic situation. You'll continue to be in the platonic friendzone.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Think of it this way. Friendship = romance without a definition.

 

So from the very start ask a woman out on an actual date. If the date goes well and you're attracted, go for a kiss. Then from that point out, just keep planning public dates, slowly escalating the physical, and keep getting to know her. As things heat up, then finally start bringing sex into the picture and eventually let her bring up being exclusive.

 

This way you're still being her "friend" since you two aren't in a relationship yet. But you aren't "just a friend" if you get my meaning. You're a friend with romantic potential which is where you want to be. But if you just keep doing "friendly hang outs" and never flirt or get physical at all, you'll never be in a romantic situation. You'll continue to be in the platonic friendzone.

 

Thing I've noticed with women, and this could be a newly posted topic, that they are gender the determine the dynamics of where relationship (or friendship, which is a type of relationship) is headed. Which in turn puts the woman in the control and not really the hopeful man.

 

It's like, the woman is your friend, until they determine otherwise. Same goes for sex, they call the shots on whether you have the green light or not.

[GemmaUK]

Think of it this way. Friendship = romance without a definition.

 

So from the very start ask a woman out on an actual date. If the date goes well and you're attracted, go for a kiss. Then from that point out, just keep planning public dates, slowly escalating the physical, and keep getting to know her. As things heat up, then finally start bringing sex into the picture and eventually let her bring up being exclusive.

 

This way you're still being her "friend" since you two aren't in a relationship yet. But you aren't "just a friend" if you get my meaning. You're a friend with romantic potential which is where you want to be. But if you just keep doing "friendly hang outs" and never flirt or get physical at all, you'll never be in a romantic situation. You'll continue to be in the platonic friendzone.

 

 

 

Spot on again FF.

Gawd! Agreeing with you is killing me! Lol!

[LookAtThisPOst]

This way you're still being her "friend" since you two aren't in a relationship yet. But you aren't "just a friend" if you get my meaning. You're a friend with romantic potential which is where you want to be. But if you just keep doing "friendly hang outs" and never flirt or get physical at all, you'll never be in a romantic situation. You'll continue to be in the platonic friendzone.

 

I actually do define on whether it's a date or not. I've even done this in the beginning with women. I'd ask them out and they ask, "You mean as friends or as a date?"

 

And I'd say, "A date" and I'm thinking (duh!) And she says, "Sorry, you seem like a nice guy ,but not interested in that way."