Men and women would be better off romantically if...

[fitnessfan365]

Thing I've noticed with women, and this could be a newly posted topic, that they are gender the determine the dynamics of where relationship (or friendship, which is a type of relationship) is headed. Which in turn puts the woman in the control and not really the hopeful man.

 

Women have obviously come far in many areas and demand respect/independence. But what's one of the few areas that many are still traditional in? Romance and dating. As a personal trainer, I've talked with many women over the years. One thing they love to do is complain/gab about their dating lives. The main complaint from many is that men don't know how to be men anymore. That they're weak, too nice, and expect them to lead.

 

The woman I'm seeing right now was like this. She was used to being in control, dominant, etc.. She'd put up walls and test with sarcasm, etc because she kept meeting pus*ies who'd let her walk all over them. When she met me, I'd tease her right back, constantly called her out on her crap, and was able to see through her tests for what they were. I didn't let her beauty intimidate me. So now she's as sweet as can be, totally feminine with me, and loves that I take charge physically, make plans, and let her feel safe enough to be submissive in the right ways.

[GemmaUK]

Thing I've noticed with women, and this could be a newly posted topic, that they are gender the determine the dynamics of where relationship (or friendship, which is a type of relationship) is headed. Which in turn puts the woman in the control and not really the hopeful man.

 

It's like, the woman is your friend, until they determine otherwise. Same goes for sex, they call the shots on whether you have the green light or not.

 

 

'cept that you don't look or wait for any signals of interest from her do you?

None at all.

 

FF knows what signals are about - I know he does. I have seen him post about them.

To you LATP, I am the only person who talks about 'come hither' signs.

I am 'that woman' that you post about aren't I? YOu have never yet confirmed this - am I?

They are not even 'come hither' signs...that's stuff from Pride & Predjudice.

 

 

I so want to help you and I would love to see you loved up but you disregard anything I say pretty much.

I'm your target audience LATP. Just a bit older than you but you come over much older than me. Tis a shame mate.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Women have obviously come far in many areas and demand respect/independence. But what's one of the few areas that many are still traditional in? Romance and dating. As a personal trainer, I've talked with many women over the years. One thing they love to do is complain/gab about their dating lives. The main complaint from many is that men don't know how to be men anymore. That they're weak, too nice, and expect them to lead.

 

The woman I'm seeing right now was like this. She was used to being in control, dominant, etc.. She'd put up walls and test with sarcasm, etc because she kept meeting pus*ies who'd let her walk all over them. When she met me, I'd tease her right back, constantly called her out on her crap, and was able to see through her tests for what they were. I didn't let her beauty intimidate me. So now she's as sweet as can be, totally feminine with me, and loves that I take charge physically, make plans, and let her feel safe enough to be submissive in the right ways.

 

Funny, when I call women on their crap, they get pissed off and usually never want to speak to me again. Believe you I speak my mind and typically if it's in opposition of a woman in calling her on her bad behavior, it doesn't bode well with me dating-wise.

 

That being said, they are likely on a constant search for some sucker that they CAN exploit because with some women, when men call them on their bad behavior, they get pissed, and just find someone that won't call them on it.

[GemmaUK]

Just a thought.

 

I saw a tv prog last night where there was a couple on a first date.

He was very intense.

He was not talking about surroundings, not telling old stories about when he was a kid he was just 'you're beautiful' and he never looked away from her - not ever.

He also leant in toward her, not hugely but he was always leant in.

Big time pressure on her and she didn't enjoy the date at all.

 

How are you on dates?

Do you become serious and ask a list of questions or do you chill, enjoy the sun, grab a drink and enjoy the quiet times where you are both people watching? Usually then you both find something/one to talk about...

[LookAtThisPOst]

I've never really even had those come hither signs and thus why I approach anyway. If I waited for the "come hither" approach, I'd never have a date. LOL

 

Who have this lame idea that a man SHOULD have "permission" to approach because you eye-balled him or something.

 

Newsflash - I've gotten dates from women and even been in relationships with women that never had given me the "come hither" either..but I'm guessing you have an answer for that just like you have an answer for everything.

 

Yeah, you're the only person on here I've pretty much think the comlete opposite than what I do. You don't even give a hint on how I see things or think to yourself, "Yeah, I can see why he would do that."

 

 

 

 

'cept that you don't look or wait for any signals of interest from her do you?

None at all.

 

FF knows what signals are about - I know he does. I have seen him post about them.

To you LATP, I am the only person who talks about 'come hither' signs.

I am 'that woman' that you post about aren't I? YOu have never yet confirmed this - am I?

They are not even 'come hither' signs...that's stuff from Pride & Predjudice.

 

 

I so want to help you and I would love to see you loved up but you disregard anything I say pretty much.

I'm your target audience LATP. Just a bit older than you but you come over much older than me. Tis a shame mate.

[misspond]

Thing I've noticed with women, and this could be a newly posted topic, that they are gender the determine the dynamics of where relationship (or friendship, which is a type of relationship) is headed. Which in turn puts the woman in the control and not really the hopeful man.

 

It's like, the woman is your friend, until they determine otherwise. Same goes for sex, they call the shots on whether you have the green light or not.

 

As has been discussed above, yes! If we're friendly and chatty with you (because we *can* be friendly and chatty and not want to get into your pants but just genuinely like spending time with you) and we give you the green light then you could claim that we're in control. It's whether you've noticed the green light that's important.

 

Personally I think that working out if we're compatible first is really important, it's key to allowing someone into my pants anyway. If I give the go-ahead then I'm handing over the control to the man and then if we're compatible we can hand it back and forth a bit. So I would totally agree that I'm all for friendship before romance, but (again, as has been discussed above) if we're out on a date then it's more than friendship. I guess it's the courtship dance or ritual.

[LookAtThisPOst]

As has been discussed above, yes! If we're friendly and chatty with you (because we *can* be friendly and chatty and not want to get into your pants but just genuinely like spending time with you) and we give you the green light then you could claim that we're in control. It's whether you've noticed the green light that's important.

 

Personally I think that working out if we're compatible first is really important, it's key to allowing someone into my pants anyway. If I give the go-ahead then I'm handing over the control to the man and then if we're compatible we can hand it back and forth a bit. So I would totally agree that I'm all for friendship before romance, but (again, as has been discussed above) if we're out on a date then it's more than friendship. I guess it's the courtship dance or ritual.

 

There ya to then. Sounds about right. :-)

[misspond]

There ya to then. Sounds about right. :-)

 

Well, now all I have to do is find someone that will do that little courtship dance with me instead of saying, "You up for it then love?" on a coffee or first date

[misspond]

I actually do define on whether it's a date or not. I've even done this in the beginning with women. I'd ask them out and they ask, "You mean as friends or as a date?"

 

And I'd say, "A date" and I'm thinking (duh!) And she says, "Sorry, you seem like a nice guy ,but not interested in that way."

 

And from your side, it seems as though you're not meeting the right people either.

 

I guess we all have to keep on trying eh?

[fitnessfan365]

Funny, when I call women on their crap, they get pissed off and usually never want to speak to me again. Believe you I speak my mind and typically if it's in opposition of a woman in calling her on her bad behavior, it doesn't bode well with me dating-wise.

 

That being said, they are likely on a constant search for some sucker that they CAN exploit because with some women, when men call them on their bad behavior, they get pissed, and just find someone that won't call them on it.

 

If that's the case, you're probably being mean or rude. I'm talking about pointing out when she contradicts herself in a playful way. The woman I'm seeing sends me a text the day after our second date saying "Last night turned me on SO much". So I call her later in the day. When we reminisce about the date I tell her she made it hard to control myself. Then she says "We need to slow down mister". So I say "Your text earlier didn't have a speed limit".

 

She laughs and then says to stop calling her out on stuff all the time. I say "You know you love it". Then she giggles (so hot) and asks when our next date is. If you let a woman know when she's full of s**t in a playful way, they really enjoy it. But if you're being blatantly rude or mean in calling a woman out, that's definitely not a good way to go. The Cyndi Lauper song "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" is a great montra for dating IMO.

Edited July 2, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[LookAtThisPOst]

If that's the case, you're probably being mean or rude.

 

No, not being rude, just telling it like it is. But it doesn't surprise me that you have an answer for that...too.

[MidwestUSA]

Sometimes I throw out a sexual tension building comment her way. One time she was talking about some bed wear (non-lingerie bed shirt with short bottoms (female boxers?) she purchased. She wanted my opinion on it.

 

I said, "Try it on and text me a picture."

 

Instead, she took a picture of it hanging on a hook, lol. I commented how it was pretty decent looking, but she had second thoughts that it looked too busy.

 

Later that evening, we got together as we hadn't talked in a while, met up for an appetizer. When I was at her car, she had the outfit in her car and she showed it to me...in person. I had mentioned again, I mentioned again about having her wear it and show me, and she kind of smiled and said, "You already said to meee, IRCCCCCC"

 

Most times she doesn't make a comment or smiles awkwardly at me if I attempt to use some kind of double entendre or subtle innuendo, making me uncertain if it went over her head or not. lol. She's very conservative sexually, so *shrugs* dunno. But, I'm not going to be a pig about it either.

 

 

That's just weird, that she would send you a pic and then show it to you in person as well. She's conservative but seems like a tease. Really odd behavior. And who needs an opinion on what they're going to wear in bed alone?

 

Why did you change your name, IRCCCCCC?

[aussietigerwolf]

I'd like to know the details of why he accused her of using him and leading him on as I had an experience with one guy who accused me of leading him on because I would not have sex with him on the first date...

 

I'm on the fence on whether it's an "on the fence" thing or not about us being "wired" a certain way when it comes to dating. I'm currently in touch with a woman, that I think likes me, but has always run into men that rush things quickly with her and not a friendship nurture.

 

One man accused her of putting him in the friendzone and just using him for free meals of which he paid. She was actually offended by this as this was not true, she implied that if he didn't cut her off like he did immediately, and just gave their friendship a longer time to process...they would have turned into something more.

 

I sometimes wonder that's why so many relationships are short lived and divorces are on the rise because people just dove right in without letting any kind of friendship develop (its more of a familiarity, too).

[MidwestUSA]

I have friends...even female ones. When I met my wife, the last thing I was thinking of was making her my friend. I wanted to make her mine. And I did. We are friends....best friends...but that developed over time as it should....the desire to make her mine was primal and indicative that she was more than just a friend.

G

 

This is how it happened with me/us. I wanted him, he wanted me. Every day, something happens that bonds us further, but the start? Animals!

 

Now, we had talked on the phone for about 120 hours before actually meeting in person, so the fact that we had a lot in common had been established.

 

Rawr!

[GemmaUK]

Who have this lame idea that a man SHOULD have "permission" to approach because you eye-balled him or something.

 

 

It's not a 'permission' thing at all.

[MidwestUSA]

Funny, when I call women on their crap, they get pissed off and usually never want to speak to me again. Believe you I speak my mind and typically if it's in opposition of a woman in calling her on her bad behavior, it doesn't bode well with me dating-wise.

 

That being said, they are likely on a constant search for some sucker that they CAN exploit because with some women, when men call them on their bad behavior, they get pissed, and just find someone that won't call them on it.

 

You often refer to "calling people" on things. Even people you don't know, maybe someone who has lied about their age on OLD or something.

 

You can disagree with someone, but calling them on their behavior sounds like you're disciplining a five year old. Do you acknowledge the viewpoints of others? Maybe 'speaking your mind' isn't a good thing. It's all in how it's done. A few posts back, you said to Gemma 'I guess you have an answer to that'. Yea, okay, it's just a message board, but....... And the way you word things, 'some sucker', aren't you a bit more mature than that? Or are you just that bitter? Because that's how it sounds.

 

Are you aware that you come off as very set in your ways and not open to just going with the flow? I did OLD thru half of my forties, and I dated a few guys in your 'group', so to speak. Late thirties, early forties, never married, no kids, no LTRs. None got a second date.

 

I would love to give you an honest critique of your dating profile, if you would be interested. My inbox is open. Hundreds upon hundreds of threads seeking advice, and I see no progress. You can't even get yourself in the friend zone!

 

As for the 'come hither' look, Gemma is right. There is no such thing. It's all about body language, subtle cues, timing.

 

Something is radically wrong.

[scorpiogirl]

No, not being rude, just telling it like it is. But it doesn't surprise me that you have an answer for that...too.

 

But which one of you is getting results and has the woman?

[fitnessfan365]

But which one of you is getting results and has the woman?

 

Thanks scorpiogirl. It's all good though. He'll learn eventually like I did. The last six years have been great for me with women. But I used to be just like the OP when I was younger. That's why I feel for the guy and why I'm genuinely trying to give advice in this thread.

 

But guys in general are in a losing battle from the get go. What actually works in dating is so counter intuitive to what we're brainwashed with growing up. Whether it's our mom, countless movies and TV shows, or all the women we're "just friends" with. It's funny because it never dawns on you that if you were actually doing things right, those same girls wouldn't be encouraging you to date other women that aren't them..LOL

Edited July 3, 2015 by fitnessfan365

[Imajerk17]

Here is a simple way to look at this though: If hanging out with you really was fun for a woman, she will want to hang out with you again. If it wasn't, she will not. In the meanwhile, if she isn't interested and you came across as a "nice guy", she may say something about "nice time but no spark" (which might be why you think women need an unreasonable amount of Instant Chemistry or no go).

 

OP, I really think it would do you good to really consider how you are coming across on your interactions with women, in light of the comments you have received on this thread. I get that this may be considered "off-topic" but I don't think it is possible to give a helpful answer without considering your previous threads. In one recent thread OP, you poked fun at women who travel. In another, you poked fun who are "spiritual but not religious". This is an entrenched pattern for you on here, and this type of judgemental close-minded attitude HAS to be coming across on your dates.

 

I agree with what fitnessfan365 said, and I also think there is another distinction. FF is calling them out on fun stuff, stuff that accentuates her role as the woman and his as the man (she is so turned on but she is saying she wants to take things slow, he can't control himself around her, ect), AND he is doing this in a playful way. You either seem to be calling her out in a way that comes across as you are "making her wrong", OR you are getting too sexual too fast in that you are skipping steps in the flirting, which comes across creepy.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Imajerk17

[LookAtThisPOst]

Here is a simple way to look at this though: If hanging out with you really was fun for a woman, she will want to hang out with you again. If it wasn't, she will not. In the meanwhile, if she isn't interested and you came across as a "nice guy", she may say something about "nice time but no spark" (which might be why you think women need an unreasonable amount of Instant Chemistry or no go).

 

OP, I really think it would do you good to really consider how you are coming across on your interactions with women, in light of the comments you have received on this thread. I get that this may be considered "off-topic" but I don't think it is possible to give a helpful answer without considering your previous threads. In one recent thread OP, you poked fun at women who travel. In another, you poked fun who are "spiritual but not religious". This is an entrenched pattern for you on here, and this type of judgemental close-minded attitude HAS to be coming across on your dates.

 

I agree with what fitnessfan365 said, and I also think there is another distinction. FF is calling them out on fun stuff, stuff that accentuates her role as the woman and his as the man (she is so turned on but she is saying she wants to take things slow, he can't control himself around her, ect), AND he is doing this in a playful way. You either seem to be calling her out in a way that comes across as you are "making her wrong", OR you are getting too sexual too fast in that you are skipping steps in the flirting, which comes across creepy.

 

Well, I have had a handful of success at achieving intimacy with women...though it's probably been recent, there have been "ah-ha" moments were I thought, "I guess I'm doing something right", because recently I Had received feedback from a male friend about how I have come off more confident and comfortable in my nature. He even told me (and he's around 50) that a few years back, sometime after his divorce...even he had major problems with women...even at an adult age, until he finally was like "f-it" just play it cool and don't stress it.

 

He told me for the first time since he's known me, that I do come off as more comfortable in my own skin (this was only in the past few weeks)...so I'm thinking that perhaps I'm doing something right. That something IS *clicking*. or some kind of turning point is happening.

 

There is something to be said about making a woman feel comfortable around you as with some guys at the Meetups, they are always in their faces. A woman recognized that I wasn't attempting to impress her and she found that appealing.

 

As I'm being compared to other men in real life. So I have a feeling that progress has been made.

[Imajerk17]

I am glad to hear this LATP. Your next step though is when you finally stop writing threads as these

Edited July 3, 2015 by Imajerk17

[Timshel]

I am glad to hear this LATP. Your next step though is when you finally stop writing threads as these

 

So, you aren't a jerk. Good thoughts, good advice.

[GemmaUK]

It's good to hear that you're coming over as happier in your own skin - that is most certainly something ladies will find attractive!

 

Maybe now would be a good time to not pursue anyone and just let yourself be yourself for a few weeks/months.

They do say that it's when you are not looking that you'll meet someone.

Maybe part of that is not being interested in Miss A and seeing how she reacts to you as you may totally miss out on Miss B who is behind you and hoping you will notice her.

 

Something that will make me notice a man is he is happy, smiling, laughing, interjecting now and then and being in a group of people. If he looks relaxed, he is not scanning the room as he is focused on his friends.

He will be the kind of guy that I would likely try to get eye contact with if he does glance around a little. or I would walk past - maybe even break the group by saying 'excuse me' and smiling at him.

 

Men are better off (and yes I have read this several times in many of the body language & psychology books I have read) somewhere en route to the bar or en route to the ladies toilets (obviously this is an example of a bar scenario but it could be anywhere really) because women who are 'looking' will er..parade (for want of a better word) past men.

Women are better off furthest from the bar and furthest from the toilets - so that they can parade themselves.

Part of this is massively helpful as it means she is for an amount of time broken away from her group of friends and therefore easier/less daunting to approach.

[guest569]

I think that confidence along with being a bit less judgemental and critical of others will make a huge difference. Eg. Being superior and "calling out" strangers because they took a few years off their age on a dating profile is a bit extreme in my view. Just be calm and positive, it will show.