Sitting Here... Hand on the Key

[TheOneYouHate]

TheOne, I get it. Despite what all the "rules" of NC require, at the end of the day, you have to finish this up in a way that feels right to YOU. My A died an unnatural death (I cut contact and went cold turkey with no explanation) and I am STILL struggling TWO YEARS LATER. I wish I would have been strong enough at the time to have a civil conversation about what we had been through together and why it needed to end.

Wishing you all good things as you move forward in your M!

 

 

Yes and I do not want to go through that. I want to have closure and actually talk things through like adults. I think as someone said here, the NC is if you are caught or your SO is involved but not just as a carte blanc end it all. I felt it was death and I could not say anymore. It was absolutely awful. The worst five days of my life. I just want to work through it and we will come to a healthy parting of the ways, instead of the the big NC. IMHO

[autumnnight]

Yes and I do not want to go through that. I want to have closure and actually talk things through like adults. I think as someone said here, the NC is if you are caught or your SO is involved but not just as a carte blanc end it all. I felt it was death and I could not say anymore. It was absolutely awful. The worst five days of my life. I just want to work through it and we will come to a healthy parting of the ways, instead of the the big NC. IMHO

 

Gently, the only people who would support you not telling your wife and/or dragging out "the right ending" are either in an affair, an AP, or have never been in any situation like this at all.

[gettingstronger]

What does your therapist say about how you are treating your wife and how you will feel about that in the long run? Does s/he support your actions that put the needs of your AP above those of your wife and marriage? Are you discussing that or is it more about making you feel better about yourself?

Honest questions, asked without malice-

[inappfriendly]

Stronger and Autumn, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the needs of his W being of much greater prioritiy than those of the AP. My suggestion is that this "final" closure, assuming and hoping it is just that, FINAL, is soley for HIM and not AP. I have been in TheOne's shoes and have felt that intense need to close the door and move foward mutually. Again, it was a purely selfish need all of my own. If he truly wants his M to work out, this simply cannot be left open in his heart. Just my thoughts.

[gettingstronger]

Stronger and Autumn, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the needs of his W being of much greater prioritiy than those of the AP. My suggestion is that this "final" closure, assuming and hoping it is just that, FINAL, is soley for HIM and not AP. I have been in TheOne's shoes and have felt that intense need to close the door and move foward mutually. Again, it was a purely selfish need all of my own. If he truly wants his M to work out, this simply cannot be left open in his heart. Just my thoughts.

 

 

 

I get that, but truly, if his marriage not himself was his #1 priority it would not be left open- the love and desire for his wife and marriage would trump everything- since it does not, I believe his wife has the right to know- wouldn't you want to know where you stand in a relationship of any sort-don't people at least owe that to each other- admitting being selfish does not absolve him of his responsibility to those that care and commit to him-

 

Being confused is normal- not being committed to your marriage is probably normal as well for some in his position, not being truthful is damaging-

[inappfriendly]

I get that, but truly, if his marriage not himself was his #1 priority it would not be left open- the love and desire for his wife and marriage would trump everything- since it does not, I believe his wife has the right to know- wouldn't you want to know where you stand in a relationship of any sort-don't people at least owe that to each other- admitting being selfish does not absolve him of his responsibility to those that care and commit to him-

 

Being confused is normal- not being committed to your marriage is probably normal as well for some in his position, not being truthful is damaging-

 

Understood. And agreed.

Thanks for your clarification and perspective

[TheOneYouHate]

What does your therapist say about how you are treating your wife and how you will feel about that in the long run? Does s/he support your actions that put the needs of your AP above those of your wife and marriage? Are you discussing that or is it more about making you feel better about yourself?

Honest questions, asked without malice-

 

I guess it is selfish and it is for my own comfort. I just know that when I tried to go the NC route that I was feeling miserable and that I was even contemplating suicide. Should my wife be first, yes she should, but I have to fix this first before I can fix that. Believe it or not my wife and I are getting closer, but I opened up the dialogue with my AP again, and maybe I will regret that but I just want some closure. I know she we will want to drag me back into the relationship, but I just didn't feel right about some 90 day no contact bull crap letter. I felt it was cowardly and weak. Maybe I am just selfish and I know it is taking more time than it should, I know it about my comfort and not necessarily my AP. I guess I am like many others have said, I don't necessarily want her but I don't want anyone else to have my AP, so yeah I guess I am really selfish. Geesh.. this could take a long time at this rate. I have promised myself to be blunt with her, we will see.

[TheOneYouHate]

What does your therapist say about how you are treating your wife and how you will feel about that in the long run? Does s/he support your actions that put the needs of your AP above those of your wife and marriage? Are you discussing that or is it more about making you feel better about yourself?

Honest questions, asked without malice-

 

No my IC supports me ending it with my AP, she says she is bad for me and that she thinks I should go no contact. My IC says I have to get out of the relationship with my AP before working on my M, to figure out whether or not to be there. This sucks I wish I would have never started this whole thing.. it really sucks.

[gettingstronger]

I guess it is selfish and it is for my own comfort. I just know that when I tried to go the NC route that I was feeling miserable and that I was even contemplating suicide. Should my wife be first, yes she should, but I have to fix this first before I can fix that. Believe it or not my wife and I are getting closer, but I opened up the dialogue with my AP again, and maybe I will regret that but I just want some closure. I know she we will want to drag me back into the relationship, but I just didn't feel right about some 90 day no contact bull crap letter. I felt it was cowardly and weak. Maybe I am just selfish and I know it is taking more time than it should, I know it about my comfort and not necessarily my AP. I guess I am like many others have said, I don't necessarily want her but I don't want anyone else to have my AP, so yeah I guess I am really selfish. Geesh.. this could take a long time at this rate. I have promised myself to be blunt with her, we will see.

 

 

As I have said, I think a lot of that is normal- what is unfortunate for your wife is that she has no idea all of this is going on and that you are not all in with her, that you don't trust or respect her enough to give her the truth and probably never will (as in when its over with AP you will tell her how difficult it was) and that loving and protecting your wife and marriage does not trump everything else- not to muddy the waters, but have you considered the idea that if you love your wife, you would leave her because you can not be the man she deserves- has that come up in IC?

[Sandy43]

All you have done is kept the A going by giving in, you are making excuses to justify breaking NC. You said that the NC letter is cowardly and weak, really?? I think you need to step back and look at the situation you have created.

You have tried NC many times and the only reason it does not work is because of you, you are sabotaging yourself. An alcoholic can't just a drink now again, a drug addict can't use occasionally it's either all or nothing. You need make up your mind what you want and commit to the OW or your wife.

[RightThere]

I think that the NC is good when you have a D-Day and that NC is used to show your commitment to your marriage, but I want to end this in a manner that is consistent with ending any relationship. I know you will disagree, but I was wigging out, having suicidal thoughts, Dr. was giving me this medication and the other. I do not think that this woman is the one for me, and I just want to let her know via normal means that this is ending. Maybe ease into that. She seems to understand, she seems supportive of helping to make me better, and breaking this anxiety-worry cycle I have with her. I believe I can live without her.

 

I think this "easing" into a breakup with your OW is definitely the way to go. It's also the recommended way to stop smoking crack. Just ease yourself into it.

 

I know it is wrong and I want to fix it. I know that I can never be with her, and that I don't want to be with her. I want to fix my marriage and get things back on track there. It is hard to see myself staying in my marriage sometimes, but we will work through it and ultimately I believe it is where I want to be.

 

You don't want to be "married." You want to be married and have your slice of the OW on the side. The sooner you actually admit that, the better you 'll be.

 

I feel for your wife because you literally have no respect for her. You pretend to because it makes you feel better as a person that you pretend to care for her on the surface, but you do not.

 

All of your words are meaningless and until you actually follow up with real action, you will wallow in this pit forever.

[TheOneYouHate]

As I have said, I think a lot of that is normal- what is unfortunate for your wife is that she has no idea all of this is going on and that you are not all in with her, that you don't trust or respect her enough to give her the truth and probably never will (as in when its over with AP you will tell her how difficult it was) and that loving and protecting your wife and marriage does not trump everything else- not to muddy the waters, but have you considered the idea that if you love your wife, you would leave her because you can not be the man she deserves- has that come up in IC?

 

It has not come up in IC... My counselor wants me emotionally stable, and that is her motivation. I think what you said is true that my marriage and wife should trump all, but there is also myself to consider. I have to stay true to myself, but first I have to find out who I am. I know there are a lot of haters because I am easing out of this, and maybe one size does fit all and I shouldn't be. I certainly don't have my AP and my wife, my AP is 700 miles away, so not like I am gaining something physical.

 

I have told my wife that if I were her I would have left a long time ago. I just keep trying to draw closer to my wife, distancing from my AP, and hope it will come to a natural end. I know what you will say, it is either all or nothing and you can call me names and be hateful to me, but I am trying to do it the best I know how. I think that as someone stated earlier this was not the intention of an NC, and I think this should end like any break up with some civility. Yes my wife is in the dark about it, will I tell her, I don't know, I have been very close so many times, but just didn't. It will come out because I do want to start again with an honest foundation. Or I will be laying in a pool of blood on the floor... one or the other.

 

Okay let the mud slinging begin.

[gettingstronger]

From your posts, you are always on the defensive-let the mud slinging begin, your screen name, etc... I am unsure why that is-maybe its guilt and shame, maybe its a defense mechanism designed to deflect, maybe you are a natural victim-who knows-

 

Anyway, I agree with your statement about the pool of blood- really and truly, if you want a good foundation to rebuild it has to be built on honesty-even if its painful to do so-

 

Trust me, there have been numerous painful conversations between my husband and I- ones that send both of us running to the bathroom to puke-BUT I have to say, the fact he is wiling to trust and respect me enough to tell me the truth goes a long way in rebuilding-

 

I remember one night, he asked me- what do you want- I told him- I want someone who loves me enough to be truthful and to deal with whatever comes next... so far he has been that person, but its not easy-

[beach]

Ok, so let's get this straight.

 

You had an affair and your wife doesn't know...

 

 

Then you keep doing NC but then make contact again...expecting to break the cycle of being close to the OW.

 

 

 

It can't be both. You either DO no contact and rebuild your M or you continue contact (which is what you've been doing) knowing full well that contact drives that wedge in your marriage.

 

 

ANY contact means you are not making your marriage your priority - so you are purposely ruining any chance to have a healthy marriage.

 

 

And your wife deserves to understand that you've been ruining your M with your poor choices and loose boundaries.

 

Why don't you tell on yourself so you can be accountable for the way you've been participating?

[TheOneYouHate]

Ok, so let's get this straight.

 

You had an affair and your wife doesn't know...

 

 

Then you keep doing NC but then make contact again...expecting to break the cycle of being close to the OW.

 

 

 

It can't be both. You either DO no contact and rebuild your M or you continue contact (which is what you've been doing) knowing full well that contact drives that wedge in your marriage.

 

 

ANY contact means you are not making your marriage your priority - so you are purposely ruining any chance to have a healthy marriage.

 

 

And your wife deserves to understand that you've been ruining your M with your poor choices and loose boundaries.

 

Why don't you tell on yourself so you can be accountable for the way you've been participating?

 

You know it is closer than you might imagine to that. I just may do just that.

[SolG]

I guess it is selfish and it is for my own comfort. I just know that when I tried to go the NC route that I was feeling miserable and that I was even contemplating suicide. Should my wife be first, yes she should, but I have to fix this first before I can fix that. Believe it or not my wife and I are getting closer, but I opened up the dialogue with my AP again, and maybe I will regret that but I just want some closure. I know she we will want to drag me back into the relationship, but I just didn't feel right about some 90 day no contact bull crap letter. I felt it was cowardly and weak. Maybe I am just selfish and I know it is taking more time than it should, I know it about my comfort and not necessarily my AP. I guess I am like many others have said, I don't necessarily want her but I don't want anyone else to have my AP, so yeah I guess I am really selfish. Geesh.. this could take a long time at this rate. I have promised myself to be blunt with her, we will see.

 

I can relate to all of this OP. My MM and I are world class failures when it comes to NC. But I have some theories from this experience and from other LSers.

 

Closure is a myth. The best you can derive is understanding and meaning of and from the experience; and you don't need the OW for that as it is derived from within. What continued contact is actually doing in your context is the opposite; you are keeping yourself enmeshed in a very much still open and active A. A very difficult position from which to be able reflect.

 

Initiating NC does not have to be 'bull crap'. The nature and tone is completely within your control. But you haven't really initiated it anyway. You've pretended. NC isn't actually initiated until it leads to... Well.. ceasing contact :/ The longer you put it off, the more difficult it will be. For everyone concerned.

 

NC--in and of itself--is only partially out of respect for the BS. It's not even just primarily a tool for exiting As. It's for anyone exiting a relationship where that ending is emotionally traumatic. It's to give the endee space and respite to heal and move on. To find that aforementioned 'closure'. In this respect your actions are actually leading farther away from your goal of finding peace.

 

The additional benefit to the BS of NC (besides the show of respect and commitment), is a WS better able to focus on repairing the M. You say you are struggling to focus on your M because of the stress of attempting NC... But the reality is that the failure to focus actually comes from your failure to achieve it.

 

There is no getting around it. Ending an A is painful stuff. Even though you write here that you want it to end, that it's destructive, that OW is not for you... Still it hurts. I'm loathe to resort to terms like dependence or addiction; I'm more inclined to say contact with your OW has become habitual. It makes you anxious to contemplate it's absence.

 

Your continued contact with your OW is not really about closure, or respectful endings. It is simply your stress response; NC feels bad so you reach out to soothe yourself. Yet in doing so all you are doing is reinforcing your response.

 

What you actually need to do is find other ways to self soothe that anxiety and break the cycle. Preferably healthy things that distract you and make you feel good.

 

I was reading some of Dr Sue Johnson's stuff; she's an EFT specialist. There was this interesting piece on the effect of connection on pain. A woman undertook an MRI whilst being administered shocks to her legs. Her brain activity reflected high levels of anticipatory stress and pain when alone, having her hand held by a stranger and lastly by her estranged partner. No change in any of the three contexts.

 

A few months later they conducted exactly the same experiment. However, the woman and her partner had been through intensive couples therapy in the intervening period and had reconnected. This time, her stress and pain responses were lower when her hand was held by a stranger, and almost non-existent when her partner held it.

 

What was the point in that anecdote? Well, you're in pain. And you're reconecting with your W. And one of the most effective antidotes for pain is emotional safety and connection. Maybe one of the things you could try when you're feeling anxious is to hold your W, or her hand. And remember that that's where you want to be and why you're maintaining NC.

[TheOneYouHate]

I can relate to all of this OP. My MM and I are world class failures when it comes to NC. But I have some theories from this experience and from other LSers.

 

Closure is a myth. The best you can derive is understanding and meaning of and from the experience; and you don't need the OW for that as it is derived from within. What continued contact is actually doing in your context is the opposite; you are keeping yourself enmeshed in a very much still open and active A. A very difficult position from which to be able reflect.

 

Initiating NC does not have to be 'bull crap'. The nature and tone is completely within your control. But you haven't really initiated it anyway. You've pretended. NC isn't actually initiated until it leads to... Well.. ceasing contact :/ The longer you put it off, the more difficult it will be. For everyone concerned.

 

NC--in and of itself--is only partially out of respect for the BS. It's not even just primarily a tool for exiting As. It's for anyone exiting a relationship where that ending is emotionally traumatic. It's to give the endee space and respite to heal and move on. To find that aforementioned 'closure'. In this respect your actions are actually leading farther away from your goal of finding peace.

 

The additional benefit to the BS of NC (besides the show of respect and commitment), is a WS better able to focus on repairing the M. You say you are struggling to focus on your M because of the stress of attempting NC... But the reality is that the failure to focus actually comes from your failure to achieve it.

 

There is no getting around it. Ending an A is painful stuff. Even though you write here that you want it to end, that it's destructive, that OW is not for you... Still it hurts. I'm loathe to resort to terms like dependence or addiction; I'm more inclined to say contact with your OW has become habitual. It makes you anxious to contemplate it's absence.

 

Your continued contact with your OW is not really about closure, or respectful endings. It is simply your stress response; NC feels bad so you reach out to soothe yourself. Yet in doing so all you are doing is reinforcing your response.

 

What you actually need to do is find other ways to self soothe that anxiety and break the cycle. Preferably healthy things that distract you and make you feel good.

 

I was reading some of Dr Sue Johnson's stuff; she's an EFT specialist. There was this interesting piece on the effect of connection on pain. A woman undertook an MRI whilst being administered shocks to her legs. Her brain activity reflected high levels of anticipatory stress and pain when alone, having her hand held by a stranger and lastly by her estranged partner. No change in any of the three contexts.

 

A few months later they conducted exactly the same experiment. However, the woman and her partner had been through intensive couples therapy in the intervening period and had reconnected. This time, her stress and pain responses were lower when her hand was held by a stranger, and almost non-existent when her partner held it.

 

What was the point in that anecdote? Well, you're in pain. And you're reconecting with your W. And one of the most effective antidotes for pain is emotional safety and connection. Maybe one of the things you could try when you're feeling anxious is to hold your W, or her hand. And remember that that's where you want to be and why you're maintaining NC.

 

This was the most intelligent and helpful response I have ever seen. This is a tremendous help to me. You explained it in ways that I can understand and it makes so much sense. I feel stronger to end this even by reading this. Wow, I am overwhelmed with gratitude toward you.. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Confused48]

Maybe one of the things you could try when you're feeling anxious is to hold your W, or her hand. And remember that that's where you want to be and why you're maintaining NC.

 

I agree that your entire post was wonderful. This bit of advice is very good.

 

Especially for the OP but good even for a BS. I know that right after Dday, when I would be feeling terrible emotional pain, if I could get to my WS and have WS hold me, I'd feel some relief right away. No talking, not sex, just holding each other.

[SolG]

This was the most intelligent and helpful response I have ever seen. This is a tremendous help to me. You explained it in ways that I can understand and it makes so much sense. I feel stronger to end this even by reading this. Wow, I am overwhelmed with gratitude toward you.. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

 

You are very welcome OP. You need to translate that feeling of strength into strength of action. Actually go NC for real. Remember your OW is more than likely experiencing her own stress response cycle and you can help her break that by exhibiting your strength of resolve and sticking to it.

 

You don't have to be callous, but you do need to be uncompromising and firm. Let her know as you have written here. You do not want to be with her, you love your W, your M is your priority and focus. That is where you want to be. You need to extinguish her hope as that is an insidiously painful thing to retain. While it may not feel like it, it is actually a gift to the OW to cut her off and let her go.

 

A gentle reminder... All I have written here is very 'me' and A focussed. And I truly get that when your own pain is considerable it can subsume all other concerns. But once you have attained some equilibrium you need to shift that attention primarily to matters of your W and your M. Find and channel your empathy. As a single OW I defer to the BSs on this board as being best placed to advise you on this.

 

I wish you well OP.

 

I agree that your entire post was wonderful. This bit of advice is very good.

 

Especially for the OP but good even for a BS. I know that right after Dday, when I would be feeling terrible emotional pain, if I could get to my WS and have WS hold me, I'd feel some relief right away. No talking, not sex, just holding each other.

 

I was actually just thinking more about this. I would imagine that for some BSs that in the aftermath of a DDay that their WS does not elicit feelings of emotional safety and connectedness. The BSs response would need to be the WSs guide.

[Southern Sun]

Amen, SolG.

 

TheOneYouHate - I read a very insightful book that really expounds on SolG's post to you. It's funny because the title seems almost juvenile and I totally didn't expect it to be as good as it was. But please check it out. I promise, it will give you more of what SolG just said...The No Contact Rule by Natalie Lue. Download on Kindle for a quick read. It will help you.

[turnera]

when I tried to go the NC route that I was feeling miserable and that I was even contemplating suicide.

Of course you were. THIS way, oh, I have to talk to her again or else I would have killed myself. You're good at setting up excuses, aren't you? Have you done that all your life when you want something?

 

I opened up the dialogue with my AP again....but I just want some closure

So...how many minutes, how many days, how many contacts does it take to get closure. You COULD have just called her and said 'what we're doing is wrong and is harmful for everyone involved, so I have to end it, I hope you understand. I can never see you again.'

 

BAM! Closure. Took all of 20 seconds.

 

Excuses.

[TheOneYouHate]

Of course you were. THIS way, oh, I have to talk to her again or else I would have killed myself. You're good at setting up excuses, aren't you? Have you done that all your life when you want something?

 

So...how many minutes, how many days, how many contacts does it take to get closure. You COULD have just called her and said 'what we're doing is wrong and is harmful for everyone involved, so I have to end it, I hope you understand. I can never see you again.'

 

BAM! Closure. Took all of 20 seconds.

 

Excuses.

 

Yep I agree, and I talked to my IC last night about it. I guess the biggest thing is being in an emotional place to do this. They started me on new meds, say I may be bipolar II, which makes some sense. The meds are helping me think a little clearer. I know that I need to end it with the OW, but still having a hard time. She is my safety net that has been woven, and I know I am afraid of letting that go.

 

That is why I come here, some of you really help me, and I am working on letting go, drawing some emotional distance and trying for it not to be so traumatic. I know excuses, and I have a line of them. If it were easy I guess I would have already done it and been over it. She still talks about the future and us leaving our spouses and being together. Truthfully, I have moved from thinking that yeah that could happen, to no way, I couldn't do that. So excuses yes, progress yes, I know most of you are the tear the Band-aid folks and God know I would if I could muster the courage.

[turnera]

meh, this is no different from any OTHER addiction. Either you decide - every single day, every minute - to NOT partake...or you don't. You either let your addiction rule you, or you take back charge of your life and live as someone you'd be proud to know. In the end, you only get one life.

[Struck down]

Here's the thing. You putting this off is just give my OW hope. End it so she can move on. Reality is as soon as you are ready to move on you will do so with fortitude to not look back. Takes most women a lot longer to build that resolve in absence of hatred. Consider it a final act of love to all involved and tell her you are committed to your marriage.