IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I think for many MM, that risk taking is a large portion of the allure. Period. It sounds like people think these MM are introspective about their own intentions when that couldn't be further from the truth in most cases, at least initially. Otherwise the complaints from OW in general wouldn't be so very similar. It's fun, exciting, feels good, until for some reason it doesn't anymore, then they start fading. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherSadSong Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 It is unfair how man and woman were wired so differently. Here we sit picking them apart at every angle and turn and they never give the slightest care to do so too. Most of them simply do not care. Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Goodbye, And did that change your opinion of your H? That he "called all the shots with some lovesick girl?" That he "played her like a fish?" Sounds like he played you, too. Yes, it certainly changed my opinion of him (for the worst) and he certainly did play me. However, as soon as I found out what was happening he was out the door a couple of weeks after he was served with divorce papers. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Raindown, For your sake, I hope we are talking about your ex-husband because this dude sounds like a predatory psychopath. Yes, he has been my exH for many years now. Psychopath? hmmm, not sure. Predatory - yup, also a conflict avoidant, entitled, arrogant POS 4 Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Being an OW does not make you a dullard. It does mean, in the majority of situations, that you are an expert at suspension of disbelief. Many believe even when they know they Shouldn't. Eh. It is more like the feelings of love that everyone gets in a new relationship. You want to believe best about them and believe in them. It is only later that OW starts complaining that nothing is happening with him leaving his wife and then the upset and arguments begin. Link to post Share on other sites
casey.lives Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 some people make "emotional" choices, not driven by logic. He trusted said person because that person made him "feel" safe.... was the danger real.. is another question, or was it a manifestation of his own making??! He trusted her because he....wanted to Link to post Share on other sites
Mount Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I did not mean the academic level of "smartness" at all in my previous post. Also the "complaint" I mentioned is the "complaint" I see here, as I don't know whether each of OW really gave complaint to their MMs or not. What I tried to say is, MM somehow leverages the "love" that OW holds for him, and make him strongly believe OWs won't do anything to damage his reputation, his financials.., thus he keeps his life going on, and not really care about the OW whom could be on the path further self-destruction. And most of all, those OWs won't do anything to change it, or do some sporadic so-called "No Contact" game, then everything is just back to SQ one. Kindly provide the stats and links to studies done on this subject for you to come up with a generalized sweeping of all OWs. I hope you are not talking about academics as there are as many OWs as well as wives who are academic achievers. Poor MM, he has to put up with "complaints" from the OW when he gets the same from the W lol. Like any relationship, there are good times and bad. The MM chooses to be in 2 relationships so he gets a double dose of complaints. How different is it from a man in a polygamous situation? He has to deal with each wife's complaints as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Mount Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I think the "arrogance" could be the answer, or the bet that MM puts on OW, could be as well? So you see it as arrogance rather than desperation on his part... I don't think that's always the case. I think sometimes its reckless desperation and foolishness. Link to post Share on other sites
Mount Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 In my case, MM is the one who loves rocking the boat, the recent example he announced the undeniable love and wanting to be with me to his all family members and relatives, I mean ALL his family, despite my intention to stop his action but obviously not working. In my case, MM is still living in the family, I just can not imagine how much his wife can handle more. Affair needs to be discreet, not sure why MM likes to announce to the world - maybe the double life has made him going crazy. Yes, but the OW, whether educated or not, intelligent or not is often besotted enough to believe it will all be fantastically wonderful at some point and he will leave the wife for her. Forget the adverse statistics, SHE is the special case. She doesn't want to rock the boat and spoil her chance of being with him for life, even if he has already cast her adrift on dday. That "hope" seems pretty prevalent here on LS anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Possibly: 1) The OW has no way to inform the BS 2) The MM is counting on the OW to not hurt the MM (and disclosure leads to that) 3) The MM calculates the OW wont tell based on the OW's fear of losing the status quo (the scraps of "him" or better than "none" of him) 4) The MM introduces the concept of "suicidal/destroyed" W to the OW - who, in a perverted sense of altruism declines to tell - to protect the BS from hurt 5) The MM manipulates "things" in such a way that the W already knows or it is an open M - no point in telling if the OW believes the BS already knows/condones/turns his/her back on the evidence of such 6) The MM is only in it for the kids and the M is cold and dead. In order to maintain the illusion of a happy M, the OW will not rock the boat and disclose to the W...for the kids sake. I have seen each of these, or variants of, here and elsewhere. Ultimately, IMO, the MM is taking a calculated risk - and he believes that particular outcome is unlikely. So he continues. And, that shared secret "us against the cold, uncaring, not-understanding us" against the world mentality. Powerful drug that is - and no small part of the glue. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
finally43 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 'eh, I don't think it is trust - I think it is thinking with their little head. I am amazed at all the OW who think they know everything about the wife or the marriage. Come on ya'll, we only know what we were told! Do some of you really think these guys didn't have all this with their wives? They dated and then engaged and then married! They shared hopes and dreams and all that stuff with them! I think some OW need to think they "knew things the wife didn't" (besides the affair) so that they can justify their actions. What some fail to see is if he had all this faith and trust and love and BFF's with you - yet kept you as an OW, in reality, he didn't respect you at all OR love you at all! Like in Goody's situation, he actually left and they have been together a while now. From what she has said, she didn't stay the OW for years on end like many do. These MM who keep the OW for years (well, that's unfair - I should say all these OW who chose to stay for years) know dang well how much the OW hurt over and over again - being alone on holidays, meeting in secret, weekend radio silence...how can anyone who says "I love you" to another person put them through all that!!! That isn't LOVE! Yes, I was an OW for 2 years until I decided not to be one anymore! I'm happily married now and can't believe I thought the xMM loved me. Ridiculous! 13 Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy47 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I think MM do take a risk .... because they are willing to do whatever it takes to get whatever they want. They must have a ruthless harsh side to their nature to do what they do. Most OW wouldn't want to get themselves embroiled in the mess of confessing to the spouse. It would be very very ugly indeed. Poppy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherSadSong Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 'eh, I don't think it is trust - I think it is thinking with their little head. I am amazed at all the OW who think they know everything about the wife or the marriage. Come on ya'll, we only know what we were told! Do some of you really think these guys didn't have all this with their wives? They dated and then engaged and then married! They shared hopes and dreams and all that stuff with them! I think some OW need to think they "knew things the wife didn't" (besides the affair) so that they can justify their actions. What some fail to see is if he had all this faith and trust and love and BFF's with you - yet kept you as an OW, in reality, he didn't respect you at all OR love you at all! Like in Goody's situation, he actually left and they have been together a while now. From what she has said, she didn't stay the OW for years on end like many do. These MM who keep the OW for years (well, that's unfair - I should say all these OW who chose to stay for years) know dang well how much the OW hurt over and over again - being alone on holidays, meeting in secret, weekend radio silence...how can anyone who says "I love you" to another person put them through all that!!! That isn't LOVE! Yes, I was an OW for 2 years until I decided not to be one anymore! I'm happily married now and can't believe I thought the xMM loved me. Ridiculous! This should be set in stone. I understand the truth now and these facts will never slip my mind and they never really have. He needs to find someone willing to be an OW because we fought the entire relationship. I am positive the relationship was 100x worse then his marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Giggle Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Arrogance. Partially I think he's counting on talking his way out of whatever his BS discovers.. Counts in her desire to stay married, and my desire to avoid adding tension to his life. He says he has complete faith that I would never do that, lol which is very true. But he's said many times that he's good at reading people, so I see it as less of faith in me and faith in his ability to read people and say the right thing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NewLeaf512 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 So they trust the OW for what could be a myriad of reasons. If you were/are the OW did you ever "break" the trust and tell your MM's wife or expose him in some way? If so, what did you do, why did you do it and what was the outcome? The day I dumped AP I told him I was sick of living in a web of lies, and I knew it was not fair for one of the people on this stage of disaster not having a base of truth to make decisions with. I was going to phone her and firstly apologise like you can't believe and come clean. He knew I was serious and left work early to run home and tell her himself. I am sure he washed it down with as many lies as possible but I don't care. It got everyone in the know. It gave me a better conscious to know I was no longer part of a deception. It gives her power to make her own informed choices, and forces him to be truthfull and accept and be part of facing the consequences of working it out or staying. So I'd decided to come clean, he beat me to it, I've not heard from him since and I hope I never will. They say the truth will set you free. It really does. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Mount Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I guess for those MMs that have both wives and OWs, have the "ability" reading those women and making sure they will cause any change of his life anyway. You can say it is MM's arrogance or just the nature of those women's characters. This is all the consequence of choices, they all live the life they choose to be in, and the way how their lives run in the way they choose to be. Arrogance. Partially I think he's counting on talking his way out of whatever his BS discovers.. Counts in her desire to stay married, and my desire to avoid adding tension to his life. He says he has complete faith that I would never do that, lol which is very true. But he's said many times that he's good at reading people, so I see it as less of faith in me and faith in his ability to read people and say the right thing. Link to post Share on other sites
m4p Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Good point. I really did wonder that myself too.. He had much more to lose than me. What made him trust me so much? Emotional confessions aside (some people says that OWs never truly know whats going on in MM marriage), but at the same time I had so much more. I took photos of him all the time, 2 years worth of texts, presents, handwritten notes..... In retrospect I realized that I was the one that handed him my trust on a silver platter. My adoration for him was clear, all he had to do was be nice to me and I would do *anything*. I would never had hurt him or turn his life upside down. I would had protect him. He never future faked me. I went in with no expectations and over time, was conditioned to feel like I deserved feeling like crap everytime I wanted more. Granted, I think both of us were in denial. we felt that we could trust each other otherwise the A wouldn't even had started in the first place. It wasn't like evil manipulative MM vs naive OW.. we were just both stupid enough to pretend that this would work. however, after D-Day I did realise that he seemed to be trying to placate me even after the end of the A. Realistically, it is likely to have crossed his mind that I might contact his wife. He never dared to bring this up or asked me not to. It was all rugsweeping and "hope for the best" on his side. Ahh... the typical conflict avoiding MM. The arrogance! Thinking about this upsets me again. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Was thinking about it and xMM sure put a lot of trust in me. I could have blown up his world and destroyed his life at any second. Why did he even trust me that much not to do it? He didn't know me well enough to know that I wouldn't for sure. What made him put his trust in me, why? Is it arrogance or desperation? Popsicle, That's a very good question and there's many different answers here. How long did you know him, and how long was the affair? That should tell you something. Also, how close was your relationship? I could argue that if he really didn't know you well, and didn't have plans to leave his wife, that could be very risky for him. However, you just don't seem like the type that would use that info to stab someone in the back, and maybe he felt the same. I also assume his wife knew nothing about the affair.... I have another situation that's a lot different. (I'm sure you've read plenty of it). I told my wife that I was looking for a GF long before it happened (I didn't even know what an OW was). My wife and I were emotionally disconnected and I lived in a different room, and we were clearly headed for divorce. I just wanted some female emotional support, which I got, and was wonderful. I had a pretty good idea who it would be and knew her for a long time prior. We trusted each other significant... like an open book to each other. I knew I would never use it against her if we split, and felt that she would not use things against me, either. I was wrong, but the damage she did after we split wasn't horrible and most of our friends understood, and really didn't believe her. We got over it without major issues, but I was disappointed that she tried to trash me at times. I think she figured out it just wasn't going to work and backed off. I felt there was no upside in trashing her or saying anything bad about her... I just said we had differences and it didn't work. Ya never know how these things turn out and what damage can be done. Link to post Share on other sites
eye of the storm Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I think in the beginning my MM didn't worry because neither of us were invested in the other. After awhile, he started to just trust that it was not something I was interested in doing. Only once did I scare him regarding this. He made a joke about telling my daughter he was married. I told him if he did, I would call his house and tell his daughters the same thing, I was not joking. He laughed and said I didn't know where he lived. I opened my phone contact list and pulled him up, home address and home phone. He just stared for a second and then laughed and said "well played". 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Bingo. That H thinks he calls the shots and has an entitlement problem. This is what my WH thought and he did call the shots for a time. Now not so much. Now he is like a stunted child who cannot figure out his way anymore. My WH lost it all. He lost his GF because I think she hates him as much as I do. I have lost all respect for him. And him well he is dealing with the massive fallout all by his lonesome. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenician Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 when MM trust ow it is most of the time that his relation to his wife is so rotten to an extent that he doesn't care anymore ; living for years with a roomate or someone with granted feelings or existance ; ppl become then like a piece of furniture 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 when MM trust ow it is most of the time that his relation to his wife is so rotten to an extent that he doesn't care anymore ; living for years with a roomate or someone with granted feelings or existance ; ppl become then like a piece of furniture I love how people always put this sh*t on the BS. How do you know we weren't just as unhappy as the WS? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 when MM trust ow it is most of the time that his relation to his wife is so rotten to an extent that he doesn't care anymore ; living for years with a roomate or someone with granted feelings or existance ; ppl become then like a piece of furniture That may be your story, other MM are petrified the OW will tell their wife or their kids. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/535900-scared-hopeless-depressed-mm 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet Storm Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I don't think it's about trust. Most MM are conflict avoidant. This conflict avoidance doesn't only affect his behavior, it affects his actual thoughts, as well. He avoids thinking of the negative because it stresses him out. Thoughts of him getting caught, OW snitching on him, wife getting hurt, OW getting hurt, kids growing up in a broken home- those possibilities are unpleasant and uncomfortable for him, so he pushes them out of his mind until it's absolutely unavoidable. He doesn't want to consider that OW is untrustworthy, because that thought will rain on his parade. The whole point of the affair is to enhance his life in a positive way, and thinking about the bad things that might happen makes him feel like a party pooper at his own party. He wants to enjoy, indulge, forget and escape. 15 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Popsicle Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 when MM trust ow it is most of the time that his relation to his wife is so rotten to an extent that he doesn't care anymore ; living for years with a roomate or someone with granted feelings or existance ; ppl become then like a piece of furniture So MM sees OW like a peice of furniture? Link to post Share on other sites
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