Author farmtomarket Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well yes. I am considering. But yesterday he got very snippy with me. He was angry that I have had my son for a few days and I didn't tell him exactly what we were doing and when. He started quizzing my son about what he's done and who I have been around. Then when I brought up reconciling and requested counseling. He again said no counseling. He said "you want to rehash everything again and try to punish me?" So no counseling. Could this work without counseling? Link to post Share on other sites
RainDown Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well yes. I am considering. But yesterday he got very snippy with me. He was angry that I have had my son for a few days and I didn't tell him exactly what we were doing and when. He started quizzing my son about what he's done and who I have been around. Then when I brought up reconciling and requested counseling. He again said no counseling. He said "you want to rehash everything again and try to punish me?" So no counseling. Could this work without counseling? No, because neither of you knows anything about appropriate boundaries or healthy parenting, so neither of you can lead your family to a healthy place. I think a third party is definitely required in this situation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lois_Griffin Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 But yesterday my own son told me that he knows that I cheated on his dad. Because his dad told him I got into relationship before we were officially divorced. My son is 9. And this is the POS you claim is such a 'good' dad? A self serving man-child who had NO problem destroying his young son's loving and innocent view of his own mother? I think you need to revisit what a good father truly is, because he ain't it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lois_Griffin Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 This is why sometimes I feel it's best for him to just be with his dad. His dad has brainwashed him that I'm a cheating whore and as much as I do see his love for me ... I know he has been told to be an investigator. His dad literally tells him to take my phone and go through my texts to see what I'm saying to my fiancé and how often I'm talking to him. Well golly, how could ANY woman resist such a great guy? Now I totally understand why you're actually considering reconciling with him. Does he have a brother just like him? If so, could you hook a sister up? Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well yes. I am considering. But yesterday he got very snippy with me. He was angry that I have had my son for a few days and I didn't tell him exactly what we were doing and when. He started quizzing my son about what he's done and who I have been around. Then when I brought up reconciling and requested counseling. He again said no counseling. He said "you want to rehash everything again and try to punish me?" So no counseling. Could this work without counseling? No. Your XH hasn't changed and I think you need to keep him as an X. He'll only destroy you for a second time. Anyway , what you do while with your son is not for him to question. He's just sounding like a jealous bitter man. Some things are on my book unforgivable and him making up all those lies about you are one. Not only that , but he hasn't ever apologised for it , though that would still not be good enough. You'll only distsbilise your son more by reconciling, as your X will show his true colours again. This is not a relationship to return to. Time flies your son is getting older and he'll soon be able to stand up to his dad and decide where he wants to be. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I thought parents were supposed to look out for their kids, were supposed to protect their kids, were supposed to put their own feelings to one side to make sure their kids grow up healthy and happy. OP you are failing to protect your kid from two mad men, both determined to screw up your kid's life. Wake up please. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well yes. I am considering. But yesterday he got very snippy with me. He was angry that I have had my son for a few days and I didn't tell him exactly what we were doing and when. He started quizzing my son about what he's done and who I have been around. Then when I brought up reconciling and requested counseling. He again said no counseling. He said "you want to rehash everything again and try to punish me?" So no counseling. Could this work without counseling? If we can assume you're portraying this man as you see him, one would surmise you don't love, respect or even like him very much. And yet you're considering living with him again . If you think this daily drama of anger, insecurity and sadness would be a healthy atmosphere for your son, not much anyone here can do to help you... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 If we can assume you're portraying this man as you see him, one would surmise you don't love, respect or even like him very much. And yet you're considering living with him again . If you think this daily drama of anger, insecurity and sadness would be a healthy atmosphere for your son, not much anyone here can do to help you... Mr. Lucky Good points Lucky.... However, it "could" work without counseling, but would be much harder. They have to establish rules and boundaries... and there needs to be sincere apologies made and the past put behind. Link to post Share on other sites
Author farmtomarket Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I feel very torn about my feelings. I think he is a stable father except for this parental alienation. He is responsible and seems to genuinely love our son. But last night he was quick to defend the fact that he reported me to creditors as fraudulent because I had a joint credit card on file from when we were married. (Before we were formally divorced but after filing). And telling all my colleagues I was a whore doc and threatening to try to get me fired. He said he is sorry I was hurt but I need to understand he did that because I upset him so much. I know people do crazy things when divorcing. So I guess that's why I consider forgiveness. But I'm not attracted to him really ... If we can assume you're portraying this man as you see him, one would surmise you don't love, respect or even like him very much. And yet you're considering living with him again . If you think this daily drama of anger, insecurity and sadness would be a healthy atmosphere for your son, not much anyone here can do to help you... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author farmtomarket Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Am I being too forgiving ... To let some of his nonsense immediately after the filing... Go. I mean I don't hate him. But I obviously do not feel compelled to hug and kiss him and tell him I never want to let him go. Would you be able to forgive what he did to me? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I feel very torn about my feelings. I think he is a stable father except for this parental alienation. He is responsible and seems to genuinely love our son. It would seem he loves your son and you love your son - and that's the extent of your connection. Not much on which to base a marriage and exactly the type of situation usually handled by co-parenting exes. Would you be able to forgive what he did to me? No, simply because he's not remorseful or sorry at all. Is there any doubt in your mind that, at the next tough situation, he'd do the exact same thing again? And he'd feel perfectly justified in doing so... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RainDown Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Am I being too forgiving ... To let some of his nonsense immediately after the filing... Go. I mean I don't hate him. But I obviously do not feel compelled to hug and kiss him and tell him I never want to let him go. Would you be able to forgive what he did to me? Sure, anybody can forgive anybody anything. I don't like or respect him, though. He's a bad father. And a bad husband. Bad news all the way around, actually. So is your boyfriend. A better question is - why do you allow men like this in your life? There is simply no need to accept men like these two. Neither one is relationship material. And neither one treats your son in an acceptable manner. Do you seriously need a man that badly? To the point that you'll settle for men like this? That is a serious problem. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 And neither one treats your son in an acceptable manner. Do you seriously need a man that badly? To the point that you'll settle for men like this? That is a serious problem. Your poor son. Both these men are rotten role models for your son, yet here you are pontificating about whether to choose Nightmare one or Nightmare two. Start thinking about your son here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Winterina Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 From what I understood, and I haven't read all posts here, the problem you have with him is that 1. he is negative 2. he was bitter and revengeful when you were with another man before your divorce Have you ever talk to him as a friend about his negativity? That is something that you probably saw in him going into marriage. That is something that can be worked on and does not make him an ahole. As for second thing, he was hurt and angry and when people are hurt and angry they can do weird stuff. I did not see anywhere in your post that you tried to understand him, work on it seriously yourself, or that you have done anything to improve the situation... Just another POW. Link to post Share on other sites
RainDown Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 From what I understood, and I haven't read all posts here, the problem you have with him is that 1. he is negative 2. he was bitter and revengeful when you were with another man before your divorce Have you ever talk to him as a friend about his negativity? That is something that you probably saw in him going into marriage. That is something that can be worked on and does not make him an ahole. As for second thing, he was hurt and angry and when people are hurt and angry they can do weird stuff. I did not see anywhere in your post that you tried to understand him, work on it seriously yourself, or that you have done anything to improve the situation... Just another POW. You probably should. Also read the one about her boyfriend. There is way more going on here than some negativity, bitterness, and revenge. This is about a young boy being stuck between two toxic adult relationships and no one caring to do anything about it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author farmtomarket Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's a good POV, but I must reflect and say I did try. I demanded therapy for awhile and he's right... It didn't seem to help because he was unwilling to take any sort of blame for anything. We were married 15 years and I was the bread winner. He was the one who would avoid taking jobs if the hours weren't perfect or the situation wasn't exact to his liking. Meanwhile, I'd be working 60 hours a week. He didn't seem to mind that at all. Then I worked my Butt off and let him build his own business and he got to work from home. I paid the bills. And what happened? When we divorced he got most custody because he worked from home and I was never around... Working around the clock. It's great for him and our son, but I'm resentful, of course. Right now, he says he's willing to head in the direction of reconciliation but I must avoid being even FB friends w my fiancé (must break up, of course) and I need to prove a lot to him .. He says. He will not do therapy. And he's not willing to move out of his apartment even if I use my money to help pay the rent/mortgage. He will only live there and I'm welcome... Only if I live there. Again, he says all of this without even going to dinner and having a long talk about anything. I was thinking back to the attitude he portrays... For example on Mother's Day he gave my son 10 bucks and said go buy something for her while you are with her. He never wished me a happy Mother's Day himself. When I asked why he said because I wasn't a very good example because we slept in and missed church on Mother's Day. So what happened Father's Day? I was broken up with my fiancé at the time. I made reservations at my ex fav steak house. I took my son off his hands so he could get work done and he told us the whole weekend he wasn't feeling well. He laid low and told me he was concerned he had a rare form of the plague! Did he go to church with our son? No. And I bought him a 175 dollar chair for his office because my son wanted that for him. See that's the double standard I worry about. Link to post Share on other sites
Author farmtomarket Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well I want to point out I've spent the past 5 days off work ... With my son. We've had a great time. He has been very happy. The only times of tension are when my son has to call and talk to his dad and he gets grilled about what he's been doing with me and where we are. My ex got mad because I took my son to a hotel for 2 nights with a big water slide. He said I have been telling him we can't afford a vacation and you whisk him off and make me look bad! Where are you ... How do I protect my son from that? You probably should. Also read the one about her boyfriend. There is way more going on here than some negativity, bitterness, and revenge. This is about a young boy being stuck between two toxic adult relationships and no one caring to do anything about it. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I feel very torn about my feelings. I think he is a stable father except for this parental alienation. He is responsible and seems to genuinely love our son. But last night he was quick to defend the fact that he reported me to creditors as fraudulent because I had a joint credit card on file from when we were married. (Before we were formally divorced but after filing). And telling all my colleagues I was a whore doc and threatening to try to get me fired. He said he is sorry I was hurt but I need to understand he did that because I upset him so much. I know people do crazy things when divorcing. So I guess that's why I consider forgiveness. But I'm not attracted to him really ... The statement I bolded tells me a lot. This is a man who is incapable of admitting to anything without blameshifting it back to you. Do NOT recoincile with this man. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Babs22 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well I want to point out I've spent the past 5 days off work ... With my son. We've had a great time. He has been very happy. The only times of tension are when my son has to call and talk to his dad and he gets grilled about what he's been doing with me and where we are. My ex got mad because I took my son to a hotel for 2 nights with a big water slide. He said I have been telling him we can't afford a vacation and you whisk him off and make me look bad! Where are you ... How do I protect my son from that? The way you protect your son from that is not to reconcile with your Ex and not to stay with your fiance. The quote from RainDown that you posted with your quote above said it, There is way more going on here than some negativity, bitterness, and revenge. This is about a young boy being stuck between two toxic adult relationships and no one caring to do anything about it.Neither of these relationships with your fiance or your ExH are healthy for your boy or for you for that matter. Your son would be better off if you were on your own and only focusing on your relationship with him. Do that for a at least a year. You will feel differently about both men if you are not constantly trying to decide which one to be with. My guess is you will find them both to be the wrong guy if you could just step away for awhile. When did these two men become the only men on the planet you could possibly have a relationship with? Please take some time away from those two to focus on your son and to focus on you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Your Ex is not a nice man. It doesn't matter if he was upset after the divorce , that doesn't mean he can tell lies and slander your name. What would that teach your son? He's bitter because you took your son away ,instead of being happy for your son. I'm really struggling to see the attraction of reconciling with a liar. His parental alienation is damaging. You can't say he's a good father...but he abuses my child..but when he's not abusing him he's really good. NO. He's a sneaky manipulative man and your son will learn some of his traits. I think from now on, you should limit conversation to matters purely relating to your son. After you working so much all those years and setting him up in business, I'm not suprised you feel resentful. I have no tolerance for husbands that don't work through laziness/fusiness. I'm just suprised you didn't divorce him sooner. You can find happiness with a decent man and your Ex is NOT that man. No decent parent tries to turn their child against the other parent. He isn't good enough for you and he's just bitter and jealous. His ego is dented because you divorced him. If you reconcile , your son will think the way he treats you is how women should be treated. Continue seeing your son on your scheduled visitation and don't even bother with conversation that will lead to you being disrespected by him. The best thing you should do , is to live alone right now, but rather than go back to your Ex , stay put. You have the worse of two evils so to speak. Please don't reconcile. It would be a terrible decision. Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Against most posters here, I feel there is a chance that the marriage could be solved. It will require some significant effort and the ex husband will have to come a lot further that he is doing, and get some counseling. People do strange things during breakups and divorce, not an excuse for such behavior, but just a statement as to why. That can be put in the past. Can I assume that the marriage was great at one time? If so, that time can return... and perhaps better. Link to post Share on other sites
RainDown Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Against most posters here, I feel there is a chance that the marriage could be solved. It will require some significant effort and the ex husband will have to come a lot further that he is doing, and get some counseling. People do strange things during breakups and divorce, not an excuse for such behavior, but just a statement as to why. That can be put in the past. Can I assume that the marriage was great at one time? If so, that time can return... and perhaps better. He refuses counseling. Period. He also refuses to accept responsibility for ANY of his bad behavior, both towards the OP and towards his own son. Not only that - his bad behavior is not in the past; he continues to behave badly on a daily basis, with no apology whatsoever. The man is toxic, pure and simple, with no desire for change or counseling and zero insight or concern about the degree to which he is harming his son. Sorry, you can't make a great marriage out of that. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
RainDown Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well I want to point out I've spent the past 5 days off work ... With my son. We've had a great time. He has been very happy. The only times of tension are when my son has to call and talk to his dad and he gets grilled about what he's been doing with me and where we are. My ex got mad because I took my son to a hotel for 2 nights with a big water slide. He said I have been telling him we can't afford a vacation and you whisk him off and make me look bad! Where are you ... How do I protect my son from that? You provide him with access to a good child psychologist who understands how to help children stuck in parental alienation situations and who can provide your son with the tools to deal with the toxic adults in his life. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 but I must avoid being even FB friends w my fiancé (must break up, of course) Regardless of what else you do, wouldn't a constructive first step be breaking off this pending engagement ? Your stake in the relationship is so small you're on the verge of dumping him for a less-than-perfect ex. Seems like you could straighten out at least that one corner of your complicated life... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You provide him with access to a good child psychologist who understands how to help children stuck in parental alienation situations and who can provide your son with the tools to deal with the toxic adults in his life. I agree with this, but i can see the OPs husband going ballistic if she suggests this. Link to post Share on other sites
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