Should I know everything / Should she tell me

[gettingstronger]

Read the pinned post at the top about what every WS should know, also google Jacobs letter- there is a line in there about a million piece puzzle and trying to find all the pieces- I was like you and really wanted details- for me, if I was going to forgive and reconcile-I needed to know what I was forgiving and what I was up against reconciling- I know others feel like just the blanked statement that the betrayal is enough, but for me- I wanted to know-

Sure the answers are hard to deal with, sure they lead to some of the most painful conversations I have ever had-but on the other hand, him having to look at me and say these things was something I feel was necessary- I wanted him to face the full impact of what happened- to truly see the consequences of his actions- not out of spite or revenge, but out of healing and understanding for him- if he did not verbalize and face his actions how would he learn from them-

 

In therapy he sometimes would throw up talking about it-it was painful for necessary- for us- and thats what matters-

[regret143]

You knew your wife was having sex with other men. You encouraged it. You participated in it. To now act like you're so emotionally distraught that you can't feel better unless you tear her down is abusive. That's what I'm saying.

 

What you and deadelvis are doing to these women is cruel.

 

You are wrong, sir!

We did have sexual liberty, all within rules and agreements, while both of us enjoyed and felt comfortable. Once one felt uncomfortable, it should be over, and it was. She met him again later, and then the affair started. Like I told you, the timeline matters!

And being honest, if she had met someone at a party, had sex as it was still cheating, because of our open minds, it would have not cause all the hurt it did.

What caused it was that she was abandoning her family to live with him, he divorced his wife, got a new place, they had a date set for her to move in.

If your morals are too prude to accept that I chose to be how I am, you are no help to me, and I appreciate your time, but this thread may not be your place.

[regret143]

I am a little mixed up here. It seems like you agreed to some sort of non monogamy with your wife, then changed you mind but she would not stop. Just not sure.

It was a mutual decision to stop.

 

The real issue is that if you are to reconcile and she is still violating the agreements that you made, or even if she is not, if she is the WW here she owes you explanations to anything you want to know. That is your decision and if she has any interest in you healing and this marriage continuing she needs to come clean and rebuild on trust. Keeping you clueless on things that are important to you is not acceptable.

 

 

Yes you probably made mistakes, but she is gtryin g to rug sweep at best and if you are the betrayed she does not get to make the rules.

 

As other have said, you may find answers to some of these questions painful to say the least but that is your call and you accept responsibility for the pain you will endure.

Exactly how I think.

Thank you!

[regret143]

I don't know how I missed this important detail!

 

About 10 weeks ago, she had a miscarriage (my baby, for sure, let's not waste time around this question), and since then she has been depressed. She was probably 3 or 4 weeks pregnant.

Now this is how she is postponing the answering of my questions. While I think is fair and loving to give her some time to recover, I feel like she had enough time before that. And I have a feeling, it's gonna be "too late" then.

I can hear she saying "We have been so good all this time, why bring this up now?". Feels like a trap... If I am good to her, treat her nice for her to recover, I lose the right to it. But If I keep pressuring her, she wont do anything because we will be in a constant fight.

[SammySammy]

You are wrong, sir!

We did have sexual liberty, all within rules and agreements, while both of us enjoyed and felt comfortable. Once one felt uncomfortable, it should be over, and it was. She met him again later, and then the affair started. Like I told you, the timeline matters!

And being honest, if she had met someone at a party, had sex as it was still cheating, because of our open minds, it would have not cause all the hurt it did.

What caused it was that she was abandoning her family to live with him, he divorced his wife, got a new place, they had a date set for her to move in.

If your morals are too prude to accept that I chose to be how I am, you are no help to me, and I appreciate your time, but this thread may not be your place.

 

Introducing other men into your relationship while still considering it cheating and expecting things to stop cleanly at your whim shows how irrational you are.

[autumnnight]

I don't know how I missed this important detail!

 

About 10 weeks ago, she had a miscarriage (my baby, for sure, let's not waste time around this question), and since then she has been depressed. She was probably 3 or 4 weeks pregnant.

Now this is how she is postponing the answering of my questions. While I think is fair and loving to give her some time to recover, I feel like she had enough time before that. And I have a feeling, it's gonna be "too late" then.

I can hear she saying "We have been so good all this time, why bring this up now?". Feels like a trap... If I am good to her, treat her nice for her to recover, I lose the right to it. But If I keep pressuring her, she wont do anything because we will be in a constant fight.

 

This is all I need to hear.

 

She lost YOUR child 10 weeks ago, and you are mad that her grieving is keeping you from getting the facts.

 

I would advise her to leave.

[regret143]

This is all I need to hear.

 

She lost YOUR child 10 weeks ago, and you are mad that her grieving is keeping you from getting the facts.

 

I would advise her to leave.

 

Even though I think I should be offended, it gave me perspective of how important and serious this is. Thanks, I guess?

For some reason, I just can't grief for this miscarriage. It's losing something I never had...

[autumnnight]

Even though I think I should be offended, it gave me perspective of how important and serious this is. Thanks, I guess?

For some reason, I just can't grief for this miscarriage. It's losing something I never had...

 

That is because you have no empathy.

 

Losing a baby, even if he/she has not been born, is a LOSS. It is losing someone you love, even if you never met. It IS mourning a death.

 

Your above statement gave me an insight into your character and capacity to love, quite frankly.

[regret143]

That is because you have no empathy.

 

Losing a baby, even if he/she has not been born, is a LOSS. It is losing someone you love, even if you never met. It IS mourning a death.

 

Your above statement gave me an insight into your character and capacity to love, quite frankly.

 

How would I love something I don't even know it exists?

[regret143]

Introducing other men into your relationship while still considering it cheating and expecting things to stop cleanly at your whim shows how irrational you are.

 

I don't think you read what I wrote.

First of all, it stopped when we MUTUALLY agreed it should stop.

Second of all, please read everything again, you missed a few other key points.

[autumnnight]

How would I love something I don't even know it exists?

 

See...it is all about you. My point is that to your WIFE, this child was real. It was inside her.

 

And all you care about is an ego-driven list of questions about sex with someone else that YOU introduced.

 

Have you ever heard of NPD?

[Chi townD]

See...it is all about you. My point is that to your WIFE, this child was real. It was inside her.

 

And all you care about is an ego-driven list of questions about sex with someone else that YOU introduced.

 

Have you ever heard of NPD?

 

She cheated on him for six months! This isn't all about him! She's caused a lot of hurt too! He's allowed to hurt!

 

 

He's not intentionally being an asshat! He's suffering from mind movies. Those can and will drive you crazy! Give the guy a break, damn.

[autumnnight]

She cheated on him for six months! This isn't all about him! She's caused a lot of hurt too! He's allowed to hurt!

 

 

He's not intentionally being an asshat! He's suffering from mind movies. Those can and will drive you crazy! Give the guy a break, damn.

 

This couple decided to go outside their marriage for sport. Then she broke the agreement, which is wrong and not justified. For whatever reason, he wants to stay, and apparently they are intimate because she got pregnant.

 

Does she need to be transparent? Absolutely.

 

Is it perfectly fine to accuse a woman who lost her child of using grief as an excuse (just a few weeks later) for not answering a litany of questions? Not to anyone with any kind of humanity.

 

There is a segment on the internet who think that once someone has cheated or cheating has entered the picture, nothing else matters, and the WS deserves no humanity at all.

 

Those people are wrong. Period.

[autumnnight]

OP, I actually DO believe that if a BS has questions, the WS should answer them. I even like the idea of writing them down because people tend to "scatter" mentally when things are emotional.

 

I just don't see this really really angry, "I don't care if our baby died," in her face mode as being very productive. Being cheated on is horrifically painful, and you do have to have answers to work through it.

 

The unfair fact is, if someone wants reconciliation that is actually reconciliation, they have to think long term and past today's strong emotion. AND past what others think they should do.

[CarrieT]

Regret, I'm going back to your very first post of last October:

I pushed her into "cuckolding me"

 

YOU are the cause of all your problems and I can't believe your wife has stayed with you. I think you are reprehensible and the fact that you haven't been able to comfort your wife on the loss of the baby is atrocious.

 

All you think about is the sex issues with the cuckolding and there is so much more at hand with your relationship and your personal issues.

[autumnnight]

I pushed her into "cuckolding me"

 

Just in case any recent posters missed this.

[Chi townD]

Just in case any recent posters missed this.

 

 

 

That's not the same thing and you know it. Apparently the "cuckolding" fetish is done together and with full transparency. This didn't happen in this case. Apples to oranges.

 

 

Okay, I'll agree with you that his timing was off with the questions. But, mind movies make you do and say things that are irrational. He is not in the right frame of mind.

 

 

To be honest, this relationship is way too toxic and they would be better off apart.

[sandylee1]

I understand how you feel she's using the miscarriage as an excuse. A lot of manipulation goes on when the people want to dodge questions like this.

 

My question is why didn't you ask these questions before the miscarriage?

 

I also hasten to add how sensible it would be toto bring a child into this relationship which is far from stable. Not so long ago she was making plans to leave you for another man. A man who divorced his wife for her.

 

I often see bringing another man into the relationship goes wrong. At the end of the day , people have feelings and once you've gotten as close as you do having sex, it's hard to control your emotions.

 

That's why you have to be aware of the risks in threesomes.

 

What has your wife done to make you feel safe?

Has she shown remorse?

What consequences if any has she faced?

 

If she hasn't faced any, then why wouldn't she do it again?

 

If she refuses to answer your questions , then what? You just accept it?

 

How do you know she's being honest with you now?

Was the baby planned? By you?

[autumnnight]

What has your wife done to make you feel safe?

Has she shown remorse?

What consequences if any has she faced?

 

If she hasn't faced any, then why wouldn't she do it again?

 

If she refuses to answer your questions , then what? You just accept it?

 

How do you know she's being honest with you now?

 

The above are excellent questions. You do have to be careful with the consequences one. IMO, natural consequences are the most effective...manufactured punitive ones may feel good, but they rarely result in actual loving reconciliation.

[RightThere]

I understand how you feel she's using the miscarriage as an excuse. A lot of manipulation goes on when the people want to dodge questions like this.

 

My STBXW did this to me as well and it's a rock and a hard place situation.

 

First miscarriage happened when I was still in the dark about everything. Months later I noticed she was very distant and some of her stories about her male friend (later turned out to be OM) just didn't sit right with me. I started to push her about what was going on with her and she threw out the grenade that she still wasn't over the miscarriage we had. Not that it wasn't a factor, but definitely used to it's full advantage to get me to back off and support her.

 

Second miscarriage was a while after D-Day during fake reconciliation. I was still dealing with everything from the A, plus she had only recently broken things off (kinda) with OM so any issues I was having were not to be discussed.

 

Short version is as a guy, I cannot even imagine what it would be like to have something alive inside you one day, then nothing the next. Especially with all the additional hormones and emotions a woman's body is going through.

 

But....

 

A WW knows how to manipulate situations and definitely knows how to use situations to their advantage.

[regret143]

See...it is all about you. My point is that to your WIFE, this child was real. It was inside her.

 

And all you care about is an ego-driven list of questions about sex with someone else that YOU introduced.

 

Have you ever heard of NPD?

 

Nevada Police Department?

[regret143]

She cheated on him for six months! This isn't all about him! She's caused a lot of hurt too! He's allowed to hurt!

 

 

He's not intentionally being an asshat! He's suffering from mind movies. Those can and will drive you crazy! Give the guy a break, damn.

 

Thank you for braking the bashing storm!

[autumnnight]

Nevada Police Department?

 

OK, you gave me a chuckle.

 

I'm sorry I jumped all over you earlier. Let's just say I have an up close understanding of what it feels like to lose a baby, and I was probably overly sensitive.

[regret143]

I understand how you feel she's using the miscarriage as an excuse. A lot of manipulation goes on when the people want to dodge questions like this.

 

My question is why didn't you ask these questions before the miscarriage?

Yes, I always asked questions. I'm here now because I'm getting to my breaking point with all this mind movies!

 

I also hasten to add how sensible it would be toto bring a child into this relationship which is far from stable. Not so long ago she was making plans to leave you for another man. A man who divorced his wife for her.

He didn't really get a divorce for her. His wife found out and divorced him, his family backed her up, so he had no choice.

 

I often see bringing another man into the relationship goes wrong. At the end of the day , people have feelings and once you've gotten as close as you do having sex, it's hard to control your emotions.

 

That's why you have to be aware of the risks in threesomes.

True. Hence, we quit.

 

What has your wife done to make you feel safe?

Has she shown remorse?

She stopped going out, fighting with me, is constantly doing thing for me just to be nice, buying presents, cooking AND doing dishes (big one!)

 

What consequences if any has she faced?

Not many. She had to quit her sport league, which is where they met and their group of "friends".

 

If she hasn't faced any, then why wouldn't she do it again?

Well... divorce, maybe.

 

If she refuses to answer your questions , then what? You just accept it?

I dont intend to. Right now she is only having a break because of the miscarriage

 

How do you know she's being honest with you now?

Honest about what? Many things I could or can check. Some, I have only her word for it. But I do ask many times, she is a bad liar.

 

Was the baby planned? By you?

No. Actually we believe she had the miscarriage because started birth control at the very first weeks of the pregnancy, when the pregnancy test still returned negative.

[deadelvis]

there are some seriously jaded individuals in these forums. people come here for help, not to be bashed on. there are a few female posters who s*** on any man who is struggling with female infidelity, promiscuity or dishonest behavior. You have no idea what it's like wrestling with your own male psyche and still trying to be a compassionate lover to your woman. Some of us are soldiers who saw active combat, spent time in prison or lived in brutal violent households. You can keep your judgement. If you are responding to someones plea for help on a forum, ask yourself this.

Are you standing beside him, are you standing behind him or are you standing against him? If it's the later go ahead and STFU.

 

I wasn't even in this thread and you mean-spirited trolls are talking trash about me. Get a life. If you aren't here to help, then your just here to judge, which is ironic, considering that's what you've been so quick to jump all over us for... being judgmental.

 

Elvis has left the building...