Problem with parents not speaking

[Throwaway2]

I was hoping I wouldn't have to come back, but I've got more problems. My original problem, my parents wanting to move and me not wanting to, they decided I was right and we didn't move, and it's unrelated to this.

 

This time around, my mom and I were on my dad's phone looking at pictures of my niece (their grandchild) that were taken earlier that day. My mom thought that he had taken a video, but it wasn't there, so we checked recently deleted, and instead were greeted with a video of his penis.

 

My mom's first reaction was, "Who the hell has he been sending this to?!" and went outside and confronted him about it, I don't know what was said, but I asked when she came back and basically got "Probably just another damn lie". Of course, she pawed through his messages and email, and found nothing indicating he was sending it to anyone.

 

My dad told me the next day as I was leaving for church, that he was just screwing around with the front facing camera on his phone, he thought it was funny, and contemplated sending it to my mom as a joke, then realized that it was a horrible idea and deleted it. This seems reasonable to me, it sounds like sort of the dumbass thing he'd do given his track record.

 

Anyway, she doesn't believe that, and wants a divorce. She's told several family friends, the pastor (who told our elder), about it (probably one sidedly), and they're gonna council her about it and contact my dad (because he needs some help too). I have yet to confront her about this, but when I do (at the nearest convenience) I have several points I want to make. Some of them are based on religious belief, and even if you don't share those beliefs, my parents and I do so they will hold weight with them anyway, so please no trying to rule them out solely because they are based on religious beliefs.

 

1. According to our faith, we are all sinners. She is no better than my dad, nor am I better than either of them, none of us are any better than those in our church government, and none of them or us are any better than someone like Hitler. It's only by God's grace that any of us are saved, and we are called to show mercy to others in turn. It also helps that this was Sunday's sermon's point as well. This means to me, my mom needs to get off her high horse.

 

2. The request of divorce in this context is directly unbiblical.

 

3. All is for God's glory, including marriage, not happiness or convenience or love, etc. by/for any involved party. This means bad times as well. And also our beliefs would indicate that if the marriage isn't centered on Christ, those things will be fleeting, if existent at all.

 

4. My mom is a huge narcissist. There's very few people that would put up with all her crap.

 

5. My mom also doesn't work-she won't be able to pay the bills without my dad, and even if I could, I wouldn't support her unless she straightens things out with my dad. I have pitched in on numerous occasions, often without their knowledge (they keep money to pay the bills in the cabinet, I've added like $200 at a time there a few times). And in the job market here, she won't be able to find anything she will be willing to do, she didn't finish college, can't deal with bosses because of the aforementioned narcissism, she refuses to work as a cashier or at a fast food place or anything like that, etc.

 

6. She's off on all this because she THINKS my dad sent it to someone. She's off on something that she doesn't even have proof of.

 

7. She will likely get excommunicated from our denomination if she goes through with this, because the church definitely won't support it. To a lot this wouldn't make much of a difference, but church is very important to my mom and I.

 

8. It's very selfish of her, inconsiderate of me, my dad, my grandma, my brother, her grandchild, etc. just because she's pissed off.

 

 

Anyway, counter arguments to those, as well as any additional points would be very appreciated. I WILL put a stop to this, even if it means physically preventing her from going to do it (snapping her car key in half or something, not injury).

[Clarence_Boddicker]

What country/world region are you in?

 

 

If you're 18, do you plan on moving out, or live at home until marriage?

[Grumpybutfun]

Am I in the Twilight Zone? Move out and get your own life. This is disturbing.

G

[Throwaway2]

I will be 19 next month, and plan on living at home until I graduate college in about 2 years, and then move if I can afford it.

[Throwaway2]

Oh, so it's disturbing that I care about the wellbeing of my parents' marriage?

[Clarence_Boddicker]

You should not be involved in your parents relationship like that. Dunno what culture you're from, but you are an adult & should be living you're own life. Both of them sound like idiots & I'd stay out of their drama. Why don't you work to have a healthy social life with genuine people who don't commit crimes & play games. Do you want a dramatic life? I'd get a job, then get a car to get a better job (depending on your country), then save most of your money, so if things go bad you can support yourself. You're meddling can't fix or save their marriage. Maybe tell your pastor or whoever what's really going on inside your house, so he can give the best advise to them. Your parents sound very immature.

[Diezel]

It's their lives, let them make their own mistakes. You can't "stop" them from doing this.

[Throwaway2]

It's for their own good I intervene, as I said before my mom is a hotheaded narcissist, and doesn't make good decisions when she's mad, and won't listen to people she's mad at. My dad, well, he does very dumb things from time to time. He had horrible parents. Not only that, this kind of crap in the past is what has lead to me developing anxiety issues. They made it my problem, and I'll be damned if I let it go just because it's awkward or inconvenient for either one of them. They didn't raise me to act they way they're acting, and I am putting my foot down.

 

"Why don't you work to have a healthy social life with genuine people who don't commit crimes & play games." I do have a healthy social life, I have probably about 5 or so really good friends, but they are for the most part several years younger than me, and I have talked to them about it but they don't know what should be done, and I didn't expect them to know.

 

"I'd get a job, then get a car to get a better job (depending on your country), then save most of your money, so if things go bad you can support yourself."

 

I have a job and car, and am paying all my bills on my own. I don't make enough to be able to afford housing as well, though. I work at a computer shop, which suits me very well, and I've been there almost two years, I'm about to start pushing for a raise. My boss is very understanding, and I think I can make it work if I explain to him how many extra expenses I have that I didn't when I started. Hell, he has a house he has been trying to rent out in the country since before I started working there, maybe we could arrange something where I would get paid less but be able to live there. I saved about $1600 last summer working, but due to all the expenses I didn't have then, I haven't been able to save much of anything this summer. I've been trying to scrape together $300 to pay my car registration, which is due.

 

"Your parents sound very immature."

 

No **** sherlock, it's come to a point where I am a more mature decision maker than either of them, at least when my mom is pissed about something I am. Like I said before, we all have the same religious beliefs, which state that marriage isn't something to be thrown away trivially. There's only one exception making divorce acceptable, even then there's people who have stuck it out, as the damn vows they made before God state (For better or for worse). Even then, that exception hasn't been met. I won't let them become hypocrites.

 

 

"It's their lives, let them make their own mistakes. You can't "stop" them from doing this."

 

Oh, I can, and I will. Their previous mistakes are the source of a great deal of my problems, and I will kill all 3 of us before they make this mistake. (My point being, it's not going to happen under my watch, I'm not actually gonna kill anyone).

[TaraMaiden2]

It's for their own good I intervene, as I said before my mom is a hotheaded narcissist, and doesn't make good decisions when she's mad, and won't listen to people she's mad at.

 

Not your business. You're her teenage daughter, not a qualified counsellor, therapist or analyst.

You're neither mature nor level-headed enough to be having this responsibility.

And before you leap down my throat, that's a biological fact, not a spiteful criticism.

Is she clinically, officially diagnosed as narcissist, or is this an assumption you are making?

 

My dad, well, he does very dumb things from time to time. He had horrible parents. Not only that, this kind of crap in the past is what has lead to me developing anxiety issues.

 

Right. So you have 'anxiety issues' and you're supposed to take responsibility for steering their rubbish? (By the way, you also have 'horrible parents'....)

 

They made it my problem, and I'll be damned if I let it go just because it's awkward or inconvenient for either one of them.

 

They didn't make it your problem.

You decided it should be your problem, and have become so embroiled in their utterly puerile childish nonsense, that it's now difficult for you to extricate yourself.

 

They didn't raise me to act they way they're acting, and I am putting my foot down.

Oh please.... they didn't raise you to be their parent either, but thst's how you've decided you should behave!

 

"Why don't you work to have a healthy social life with genuine people who don't commit crimes & play games." I do have a healthy social life, I have probably about 5 or so really good friends, but they are for the most part several years younger than me, and I have talked to them about it but they don't know what should be done, and I didn't expect them to know.

That's because they haven't taken on the task of parenting their moms and dads, as you have...

 

 

No **** sherlock, it's come to a point where I am a more mature decision maker than either of them, at least when my mom is pissed about something I am.

They get away with their childish immature behaviour, because you tolerate it. THis is ludicrous.

But the huge problem now, is that you have an emotional and psychological 'payoff'.

You actually somehow get a kick out of this situation.

The fact uis, you have all programmed yourselves to believe that this is the way it has to be. They get a live-in minder, go-between, arbiter and peace-maker, and you get to live in security under a familiar roof. Oh, it's win-win all right....

 

Like I said before, we all have the same religious beliefs, which state that marriage isn't something to be thrown away trivially.

You clearly know a great deal about scriptural teachings.Could you please tell me where it says that children must be responsible for their parent's infantile and childish bickering, and that a child is to assume the role of marriage advocate?

 

There's only one exception making divorce acceptable, even then there's people who have stuck it out, as the damn vows they made before God state (For better or for worse). Even then, that exception hasn't been met. I won't let them become hypocrites.

You have absolutely no right to interfere with their stupid idiotic, attention-seeking egotistic petty quarrels, and they have absolutely no right whatsoever to expect that you will deal with it, either.

 

 

Oh, I can, and I will. Their previous mistakes are the source of a great deal of my problems, and I will kill all 3 of us before they make this mistake.

So this is repeated behaviour.

You see, it's manipulative and controlling. They do this on purpose, because they can. They habitually create drama which will inevitably involve you.

Good grief, I see this repeating down the line.... issues between you and a future husbnd, being sorted out by YOUR child.

 

We repeat the mistakes we are taught by our parents. We emulate the very people who are instrumental in our upbringing.

You are learning a pattern of behaviour you may be doomed to copy....

 

(My point being, it's not going to happen under my watch, I'm not actually gonna kill anyone).

"Your watch"....?! You shouldn't even be in the same home as them, let alone 'watching' this!!

This is so wrong, on so many levels!

[Throwaway2]

Ok, 1. I am a guy

 

2. I didn't ask for your opinions, on whether or not I'm right or should be doing this. I asked if my argument is convincing. I don't care whether you think it's wrong for me to do what I am, but unlike how it seems most of you are, family means more to me than just "cut them loose and live my own life". I do live my own life, and my life will either include my parents together, or not at all.

 

So none of you have really answered what I asked.

[TaraMaiden2]

Ok, 1. I am a guy

 

2. I didn't ask for your opinions, on whether or not I'm right or should be doing this. I asked if my argument is convincing. I don't care whether you think it's wrong for me to do what I am, but unlike how it seems most of you are, family means more to me than just "cut them loose and live my own life". I do live my own life, and my life will either include my parents together, or not at all.

 

So none of you have really answered what I asked.

 

 

Nobody knows what you asked. What did you ask??

 

And it really doesn't matter whether you ask for opinions or not.

Sadly, you'll always get them.

 

Families are important.

But so are roles.

And you have adopted the entirely wrong role for the age you are.

 

You are their child, and frankly, it doesn't matter a flying fig whether you're male, female, gender-neutral, bisexual, homosexual, transgender or assexual.

 

You should not be adopting this role.

 

This is something their peers, counsellors, fellow church-members and pastor should be concentrating on.

 

You have other things which should be taking your priority.

 

What they are doing is grossly unfair, and frankly, you are over-stepping your position in the family unit.

 

Is our mother a clinically-diagnosed narcissist, or is this just the way you perceive her to be?

[Grumpybutfun]

Oh, so it's disturbing that I care about the wellbeing of my parents' marriage?

 

Yes, to the extent you wrote about, it is frankly very disturbing because you are their child and you shouldn't be involved at all.

Move out....you do not need to be in the codependent relationships with your parents that you are.Boundaries need to be set and you need to get your own life.

G

[TaraMaiden2]

And please allow me to elaborate....

 

.... 2. I didn't ask for your opinions, on whether or not I'm right or should be doing this.

I beg to differ...

 

Actually, you invited responses and 'points'.

 

....Anyway, counter arguments to those, as well as any additional points would be very appreciated.

 

Opinions is certainly covered by 'points'....

 

I asked if my argument is convincing.

 

No.

Because you shouldn't even be proposing this 'argument'.

It's not your place to do so....

[Throwaway2]

Sorry, I thought I had included it in the first post, I actually wrote this out twice, and I didn't get it submitted the first time, so I guess I didn't the second time. My intended questions were, are my 8 points I made in the first post legitimate observations, and if so, what counterarguments might I run into?

 

Again, I'm not concerned with whether I should or shouldn't be assuming this role, but I do know the stances of those you say should be handling it, and my position aligns with theirs. I do know that my mom especially, but both my parents do generally take it more to heart when they're told something by someone closer to them, because the last few go arounds several years ago, my mom would only listen to my brother and I. I took a similar stance that time, and I won. So, my brother and I are often the only ones that can talk any sense into them when my mom is pissed.

 

While there are other things that are important in my life, family is priority #1 to me. They made me who I am today, and I'm not gonna let that go for fear of overstepping my boundaries, because, to be honest, THEY are overstepping their boundaries by behaving this way. There's no damn excuse for it.

 

And yes, she has been diagnosed with it.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Throwaway2
Added a sentence.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

"winning" those arguments with logic is immaterial, as it's a moot point, because you have no authority.

 

 

Go out into the world (move out) & get some real life experience. Get some education & a degree. Church stuff doesn't count, unless you enter the priesthood. Then & only then can you speak with any authority.

[Throwaway2]

All right, I'm assuming y'all won't ever directly answer my question instead of preaching about how or why none of this should concern me, so have a nice day everyone.

[Grumpybutfun]

All right, I'm assuming y'all won't ever directly answer my question instead of preaching about how or why none of this should concern me, so have a nice day everyone.

 

Come back when you have a relationship you need advice on.....or how to not be codependent....

G

[TaraMaiden2]

Sorry, I thought I had included it in the first post, I actually wrote this out twice, and I didn't get it submitted the first time, so I guess I didn't the second time. My intended questions were, are my 8 points I made in the first post legitimate observations, and if so, what counterarguments might I run into?

 

Again, I'm not concerned with whether I should or shouldn't be assuming this role, but I do know the stances of those you say should be handling it, and my position aligns with theirs. I do know that my mom especially, but both my parents do generally take it more to heart when they're told something by someone closer to them, because the last few go arounds several years ago, my mom would only listen to my brother and I. I took a similar stance that time, and I won. So, my brother and I are often the only ones that can talk any sense into them when my mom is pissed.

 

While there are other things that are important in my life, family is priority #1 to me. They made me who I am today, and I'm not gonna let that go for fear of overstepping my boundaries, because, to be honest, THEY are overstepping their boundaries by behaving this way. There's no damn excuse for it.

 

And yes, she has been diagnosed with it.

 

Then you have absolutely no right to try to dictate to someone who has a mental affliction, what she should/should not be doing, because it will fall on deaf ears.

You are neither trained, nor qualified to be able to govern, guide, steer or stipulate what your mother and father should be doing.

They are adults, they took the responsibility of getting married, having children and raising a family.

What the hell is going on with everyone that these roles have been so dramatically reversed??

 

1. According to our faith, we are all sinners. She is no better than my dad, nor am I better than either of them, none of us are any better than those in our church government, and none of them or us are any better than someone like Hitler. It's only by God's grace that any of us are saved, and we are called to show mercy to others in turn. It also helps that this was Sunday's sermon's point as well. This means to me, my mom needs to get off her high horse.

She will get off when she's good and ready, and if she's a narcissist, then she never will. She is repeating past behaviour and will not take guidance or direction from anyone.

Sometimes you have to LET people make their own mistakes, not pull them out of the saddle. If you pull her out of the saddle, all she will do, is resent you for unseating her and will learn nothing from the experience, except digging her heels in.

 

2. The request of divorce in this context is directly unbiblical.

Disagree.

The Bible is a book, written by authoritarian religious despots whose sole design is to control others through fear and doubt. 50% of marriages end in divorce. Do you honestly believe all those people are heathens and will end up in hell.....?

 

3. All is for God's glory, including marriage, not happiness or convenience or love, etc. by/for any involved party. This means bad times as well. And also our beliefs would indicate that if the marriage isn't centered on Christ, those things will be fleeting, if existent at all.

This argument obviously hasn't had a lot of effect on your mother, who basically has decided she doesn't really give a gram of care for 'god's glory'. I would respectfully suggest trying to convince her of this, is like goading an elephant to move, by using a blade of grass....

 

4. My mom is a huge narcissist. There's very few people that would put up with all her crap.

But she's getting away with it, repeatedly, which is why she repeats her behaviour. Because it works.

Look at all the attention she's getting! She loves this. Don't you see that? This has little to do with your father's actions. This is to do with her commanding centre stage. Yet again.

 

5. My mom also doesn't work-she won't be able to pay the bills without my dad, and even if I could, I wouldn't support her unless she straightens things out with my dad. I have pitched in on numerous occasions, often without their knowledge (they keep money to pay the bills in the cabinet, I've added like $200 at a time there a few times). And in the job market here, she won't be able to find anything she will be willing to do, she didn't finish college, can't deal with bosses because of the aforementioned narcissism, she refuses to work as a cashier or at a fast food place or anything like that, etc.

So this is why they do this, this is why they involve you, and this is where their payoff is. As I stated earlier. They are manipulating you, and you are playing into the game.

 

Have you actually never stopped to consider what effect it would have if just for once, you did the OPPOSITE to what was expected of you?

You keep doing this.

 

"Insanity is repeating the same mistake over and over again, and expecting a different result."

 

They lead, you follow.

 

Wow....

 

6. She's off on all this because she THINKS my dad sent it to someone. She's off on something that she doesn't even have proof of.

No. She's off on all this because she adores the drama, the attention, the intense and continued allowances made for her behaviour.

 

7. She will likely get excommunicated from our denomination if she goes through with this, because the church definitely won't support it. To a lot this wouldn't make much of a difference, but church is very important to my mom and I.

Not so.

The church is important to YOU. Your MOM is important to your MOM. Because that's all narcissists see. Themselves, and everything else as secondary.

 

8. It's very selfish of her, inconsiderate of me, my dad, my grandma, my brother, her grandchild, etc. just because she's pissed off.

 

And she has repeatedly demonstrated that none of this matters to her, because what momma wants, momma gets.

No matter what the result is, she gets the attention.

And that's all a narcissist needs. No matter what the outcome, she's achieved centre place, yet again.

[CC12]

Anyway, she doesn't believe that, and wants a divorce. She's told several family friends, the pastor (who told our elder), about it (probably one sidedly), and they're gonna council her about it and contact my dad (because he needs some help too). I have yet to confront her about this, but when I do (at the nearest convenience) I have several points I want to make.

 

People who are more well-versed in the bible are involved now, so why do you feel the need to step in? Just leave it up to the adults and religious leaders to handle this. Have faith that they are better at this than you are.

 

If you have trouble letting your parents live their own lives and being supportive of the choices they make, I encourage you to speak to these same spiritual leaders or other counselors to get guidance on how you should best handle this. What you're using now (besides religious tenets) are threats and coercion to get them to do what you want them to, not necessarily what's best for them.

 

I think a good example of that is from your last thread (which you referenced in the first few sentences of your OP so I think it's okay for me to bring up here) where you explained that your parents wanted to move and you disagreed with their decision so you threatened that "they won't hear from me anymore." Here you said they decided that you were "right" so they didn't end up moving like they wanted to. I think it's safe to say that there were no religious beliefs that were motivating you there - you just didn't want to move and you got your way by acting like a bully.

 

I think you're pulling the same thing now, except you happen to have a religion that may back you up in some ways. You're still being a bully. And snapping her car key in half or any other method of physically restricting her movement is downright wrong and I would hope that your religion frowns on that. The law certainly frowns on kidnapping someone or destroying their possessions so that it renders them incapable of leaving.

 

I will kill all 3 of us before they make this mistake. (My point being, it's not going to happen under my watch, I'm not actually gonna kill anyone).

 

None of what your parents choose to do is "under your watch" and threatening to kill people (even if you're being hyperbolic) is really pretty indicative of a possible mental illness of your own. I don't mean this in an accusatory or mean way at all, but is it possible that being raised by a narcissist had colored your judgment and how you deal with things in your adult life?

[autumnnight]

I'm just gonna say....When someone plays with the front facing camera, they take selfies, not penis videos.

 

Your mom may be bitchy, but she has a reason to be skeptical. A penis video he took "just for fun" and didn't send to anyone?

 

Um...nope, not buying.

 

And I don't know what kind of church you go to, but the Bible clearly delineates sexual sin as being different from other sins, so you need to brush up.