Gloria25 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I don't know if I'm just venting here, but here goes... I've read the "Rules", "Rules II", 'Why Men Love Bychs', "He's Just Not that Into you", 'How to think like a man', 'Men are from Mars, Women Venus', etc... But, for the life of me, I just can't put that into practice when it comes to dating. I seriously think I'm a "book smart" nerd/geek and have no "street smarts"... What you see is what you get with me. I can't hold off having sex in hopes you think I'm Virgin Mary and/or a "decent" chick . Why should I hold off calling you the next day after a date to see if you had a good time? If I cook for you on the 2nd date does that mean I'm smothering you? Arrrrgghhh!!! But, fact is that's how the world works...you gotta "play the game" Even at work for years I've been told that - but that's not how I roll. I go in, do my work (to levels above my peers), but cuz I don't brownnose, I don't get perks, promotions, etc. I just get the "oh, I like you, you're quiet, you come in and do your job" Well, same thing when it comes to dating. I perform my "duties" above that of other women, and get passed over...So, gotta move to another company/agency to get the higher position I am entitled to. Dating just sucks...why can't you just go out, meet people, have a great time w/o having to walk on eggshells and/or be playing from some playbook? I'm not changing...what you see is what you get with me. I'm not playing no freakin' game to land a guy. Oh well, time to get more doggies for my collection and to become the "Krazy Dog Lady" of my hood cuz the way I'm going about it, no man will give me the time of day cuz I have no game:mad: 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S_A Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 What can I say... I agree with you. I never played by the "rules". I generally wing every social interaction. I think you should remain genuine at all times. Be genuine and the right guy will notice. edit: You're extra spunky tonight, Gloria25 1 Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I don't believe in "the rules" but I do think those books are out there for a reason. That reason is that sometimes women have little to no boundaries and they just jump into a RS with... a perfect stranger. Let's take your example for a moment, there: why on earth would I cook dinner the second date to I guy I've never seen before ? Am I insane? Desperate? I don't even want him in my house for the first few dates. Too many things to do outside, activities, discussions, etc. I want to get to know him first and feel that there is chemistry and that he is also involved. I don't have to prove myself in any way. So I first do the weeding, and if the guy is putting in efforts on his side and there is chemistry, I may play ball. I already know I am gf material, the real question is: is there compatibility and is he the person I'm looking for? Does he show himself? Do we both want the same things? Do I like him? Does he appreciate me? Perfect strangers who might only want to see me naked.... shall I serve them also dinner with that ? What is this, a full service house ? Naaaaah, no way. Beginnings involve to get to know the other person and have a good time doing it. But essentially, beginnings are for the weeding out process, not for investments. We all know what happens when we have home cooked meal and nice wine on the table, at the girl's place. I reserve that treatment to future bfs, not to dates. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Think about this from an employers perspective. If you are doing a great job, and you don't make any waves, why should they ever promote you? You are doing great right where you are. They generally promote the people they want to work with often, not the people who do a great job. This is not a general employer perspective. Many do not respond to brown nosing. What they respond to is someone that takes the initiative, is solution driven, and an motivate others. That is a big component on upward mobility. Each company's culture is different so for some this may work. For my current company it is more of the squeaky wheel. I would advise those wanting to move up to be more vocal about, jump on opportunities and don't want for things to be handed to you, make opportunities happen, and ultimately know when you need to move your cheese instead of waiting for someone else to move it for you. (And easy read on that is "Who Moved My Cheese?" a great book and a very quick hour read). 2 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 At bottom those books are about self respect & self esteem. Gloria you come at life from a place of power. You know who you are & are comfortable in your own skin. When you reach out to a guy it's genuinely because you want to see if he had a nice time on the date, not because you are terrified that he's forgotten all about you in the 12 hours you have been apart. (the latter is bad & that is the mindset the books are trying to discourage) While I'd like to think I'm a strong woman & most people view me that way I played some dating games but they were more about me. I know I have a big personality & lots of Alpha Male traits. I would intentionally hold myself back to avoid overwhelming a guy, especially a new guy. My "prayer" to the universe wasn't just Oh let me meet a guy. Men are everywhere & meeting new people was never my problem. I said please send me a man who is strong enough to let me be weak & believe me that is a tall order. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
SerCay Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I know exactly what you mean Gloria. Never been able to play the game either.... It seems FAKE to me. Or in the words of Lefty which somehow pops up in my head "Fugazi" Also, the people who are good at this game, and actively engage in this game seem fake and empty headed to me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Most of that stuff is garbage with no practical application anyway. Artifical and disingenuous. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 When it comes to romantic relationships, I agree that playing games is not the way to go...trying to hook them pretending to be something you're not. In the workplace, yeah, emotionally intelligent people have been shown to be more successful. It just is one of those things. But when looking for a person to love/be with....no, no fakery or game playing. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
MoreAmore Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You don't have to play by any artificial rules to date, or to be successful dating. That's silly. You can go out, be natural. That's what one should do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You don't have to play by any artificial rules to date, or to be successful dating. You can go out, be natural. That's what one should do. It must be remembered that some people's natural instinct is to be insecure, clingy lunatics. I think the books & advisors that suggest dialing it back are on to something. While it's better to be yourself, new relationships have more of a chance to grow in a healthy direction if both people start off as their best selves. There is no need to disclose every bad thing about yourself or every fear in the 1st few dates. Oversharing is to be discouraged. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 some books are there to also teach women to have a spine and not fully include a perfect stranger in their life house or bed. or at least not all of them... just sayin' 3 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Between spineless people pleaser and obnoxious, crass, rude, tactless loudmouth is an emotionally intelligent balance that successful people learn to achieve. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
BluEyeL Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Those rules, both in dating and at work are only artificial if we don't understand them and they are not internalized. I've seen many people that are proud of not playing by the rules and not brown-nosing or whatnot. I think that's just a coping mechanism for justifying lack of success. What else do do? Kill yourself? Not necessary. Maybe work on changing the way you view the world is a better idea. I was always a results oriented person and I've always had success in everything I did. I don't care "why do I have to..." As long as it's not illegal or immoral and it serves me in reaching my goals, I'll do it. You can sit around and cry "why, why" and watch others get the things you want. Or you can stand up and go after what you want.' For example, at my job. I'm going to be promoted before a man that was hired at the same time with me and who has the same number (or more) of publications and citations (that's how you measure success in our field) as/than me. I'm getting higher raises and I'm being promoted while he's getting lower raises, he's criticized in evaluations and he's not getting promoted. The other day, he complained to me (he doesn't know I'm being promoted yet, I guess he'll be furious when he finds out) about how he's not being supported because he's not "likeable". When he finds out Im promoted and he's not, he's going to go mad. let me tell why he's not promoted. He gives off a vibe like he doesn't care about the unit, but only about himself and those numbers of publications, he is flying off the handle at the slightest disagreement and starts yelling, he's sending angry emails, he complains, and he's not listening to feedback. he says "why do I need to organize a Symposium".... in response of performance feedback. I got that feedback and I just DID IT! OK? And I understood why as well. When I had him in a hiring committee I led, he was coming there sitting passively, not reading his materials (we had 300 applications, shared workload in reading them and he wasn't doing his part), and generally not giving a sh*t. Let me tell you, people weren't happy and they don't care about your number of publications with that attitude of yours. Now, when he doesn't get promoted, is he going to see it that way? No!! He's going to say "I published just as much as Blu-or slightly more- and I'm not promoted because I proudly "didn't play by the rules". In fact, if you are not a team player....that's part of your job. In dating the same. Many people on forums gave me grief that I'm being too this and too that. Well, I do have a loving relationship and I'm insanely happy and they are still where they were... just because of "why do I have to..." Well, because it WORKS! That's why. Whining never does though. Your choice. Edited July 9, 2015 by BluEyeL 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gloria25 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 At bottom those books are about self respect & self esteem. Gloria you come at life from a place of power. You know who you are & are comfortable in your own skin. When you reach out to a guy it's genuinely because you want to see if he had a nice time on the date, not because you are terrified that he's forgotten all about you in the 12 hours you have been apart. (the latter is bad & that is the mindset the books are trying to discourage) While I'd like to think I'm a strong woman & most people view me that way I played some dating games but they were more about me. I know I have a big personality & lots of Alpha Male traits. I would intentionally hold myself back to avoid overwhelming a guy, especially a new guy. My "prayer" to the universe wasn't just Oh let me meet a guy. Men are everywhere & meeting new people was never my problem. I said please send me a man who is strong enough to let me be weak & believe me that is a tall order. Same here... I feel that I am intimidating - so I work hard to overcompensate and/or hold back, which also ends up in scaring them away. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gloria25 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 I know exactly what you mean Gloria. Never been able to play the game either.... It seems FAKE to me. Or in the words of Lefty which somehow pops up in my head "Fugazi" Also, the people who are good at this game, and actively engage in this game seem fake and empty headed to me. Agreed.... The people who play games really have nothing going for them "but" the games. But IMO, they still end up winning cuz by the time the victim figures out they've been played (the player shows their true colors) they're into a marriage and/or kids. and the victim feels "stuck" and will just stick it out. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gloria25 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 This is not a general employer perspective. Many do not respond to brown nosing. What they respond to is someone that takes the initiative, is solution driven, and an motivate others. That is a big component on upward mobility. Each company's culture is different so for some this may work. For my current company it is more of the squeaky wheel. I would advise those wanting to move up to be more vocal about, jump on opportunities and don't want for things to be handed to you, make opportunities happen, and ultimately know when you need to move your cheese instead of waiting for someone else to move it for you. (And easy read on that is "Who Moved My Cheese?" a great book and a very quick hour read). Agreed...depends where you work at. Let's just say in the industry/area I'm in, they higher people who can just do the "bare minimum" (although they advertise otherwise and put soo many hurdles into you getting employed). So, you have a bunch of insecure and inept people who grow into management and seek nothing else but "team players" (not in the "cooperation" sense that must take place at work, school, etc - but people who will jump on the team bandwagon to do something amoral and/or illegal w/o flinching) and worshipers (brown nosers). Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Stop listening to those books and just be you. I have never read a single dating book and I did fine when I was single. Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Same here... I feel that I am intimidating - so I work hard to overcompensate and/or hold back, which also ends up in scaring them away. I used to do the same thing, and it always backfired. The trick is to own whom you are. Accept that part of yourself and integrate as an important part of your personality. It's whom you are anyway. And if you do and even become proud of that... it will actually turn into an asset and you might attract people who won't be put off by it, but rather who are intrigued by it. By you. It's a mindset and it actually works. Funny how the human brain can work for us or against us 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Krieger Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 richard-jeni-card-table-dating https://soundcloud.com/duder111/richard-jeni-card-table-dating Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 In college, I took a composition class with a casual friend. Now, of course, composition is all about creativity, blah blah blah. But just like other things, like woodworking or carpentry or dance or whatever...there ARE foundational rules you need to know. This guy composed really neat stuff...but NONE of it followed the clearly given guidelines that the professor laid out. Hey, I like e e cummings and John Cage as much as the next person, but when your professor instructs you to write a couplet or four part open score harmony....atonal music or abstract poetry isn't going to cut it. I remember after getting yet another bad grade on a composition, he threw his books across the quad in a rage. I had tried to be sympathetic, but at that point, I just said, "You can be obnoxious and fail, or you can play the game, do the work he wants, and make an A." Your choice. That doesn't necessarily apply to dating, but it does apply in vocational and other interactive situations. It's also why I never felt sorry for my former coworker who got passed over. She was rude and tactless and knew everything and rubbed everyone wrong. Who on earth would promote that? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
SerCay Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Agreed.... But IMO, they still end up winning cuz by the time the victim figures out they've been played (the player shows their true colors) they're into a marriage and/or kids. and the victim feels "stuck" and will just stick it out. They do end up winning don't they??? Same as the fact that real bizzatchy women always end up with the sweetest and most devoted men 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Palmeiras Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 They do end up winning don't they??? Same as the fact that real bizzatchy women always end up with the sweetest and most devoted men Those women don't end up with devoted men that have spines. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SerCay Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 ^ Also true. Spineless must be added... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I don't believe in following "rule" books like that but if you really did read all of them Gloria then you MUST have found stuff in some of them that was helpful or informative to you??:confused: Changing yourself to get a guy is NOT the same thing as working on your own weak spots and building your good qualities, I mean if a person is having aLOT of conflicts with other people or feeling lonely or isolated there are things they COULD do to help themselves connect with others in romantic ways but also in the jobs and everyday life stuff. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gloria25 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 ^ Also true. Spineless must be added... Also, them ending up with "guys who are afraid to...." must be added. It's too easy to close your eyes and believe someone's manipulations/games than risk being alone (well for some people)...so, it's "safer" to be with comfortable and stay with the devil you know rather than the unknown. Link to post Share on other sites
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