Our conversation today

[oldshirt]

If you have read any of my post posts, you know that I am very adament about people not sharing minute details of their prior exploits and I am firmly against people having any type of "numbers" discussions or doing any type of probing into their partners private business.

 

The pros and cons of discussing your partners previous exploits can be argued forever.

 

 

However since getting into your BF s past is important to you and since it does appear he is intentionally gas lighting you and giving you the Potomac Two Step to the point that you have no trust in him, I think you should call it a day and let him go.

 

By let him go I mean either dump him for being untrustworthy, or let the whole thing go and get off his butt and just roll the dice and take your chances that he might be some kind of scheister.

 

If you decide to stay, just do it with open eyes and ears and don't ignore any other red flags.

 

Here's the thing, one of you is out of line here. Either you are paranoid and overly suspicious and see a wolf in sheep's clothing everywhere you go.

 

Or he is a bit of a scammer and a manipulator and relies on slight of hand tricks to get away with pulling things over on people.

 

The key is how each of you acts in general before you got together and how you each act independently of your relationship.

 

If you are typically suspicious of people and are always afraid others are scamming you and trying to pull stuff over on you then it might be you.

 

If on the other hand he is always using little word games and disclaimers to push the bounds of good behavior in many of his dealings then he may be a bit of a snake in the grass.

 

The key here is how each of you act independently of your relationship with each other.

[jwi71]

I see the OP of the "camp" that wants to know all of the details of the past. It is not right or wrong - it simply is. She wants, no needs, to know. I get it. I'm the same way.

 

However her BF appears to disagree. His past is NONE of your business and tells the minimum.

 

Or, possibly, he doesn't remember and does his best to "fill in the blanks" of his memory. I have had many lovers. I get them confused at times when I try and remember. Names, faces, places and etc. My W asked me those questions and I told her honestly "Im not sure". Because Im not. I try. Sometimes I mis-remember. Sometimes she asks for something I would not have paid attention to. I too try my best and that means a fluid story. Sorry. Not TRYING to lie...just jumbled memories of events I may not have cared about. "How the hell am I supposed to remember the color of her panties? Pink? White? Lemon Yellow? Rainbow? Who the h_ll cares!" I get names wrong, faces wrong...the order wrong...the time frames wrong...h_ll, I cannot remember some names (but can see her face) and sometimes I can remember the name and her breasts...but not her face. You get the idea. Its fluid.

 

Maybe he is trying to remember.

 

Maybe not.

 

Maybe he is just answering with whatever because your interrogation of him, and that's what you are doing, would drive ANYONE insane.

 

Ultimately though this issue has no answer for you with this BF. You will never know the whole truth. Now, if he is carrying that behavior into other aspects of your R - then his lying is clearly a problem in general. If so, bail. Liars are miserable partners. If he only appears to be lying about the past...maybe examine your own attitudes and behaviors - one may be leading to and causing the other in a circle.

 

My advice...bail.

[oldshirt]

I see the OP of the "camp" that wants to know all of the details of the past. It is not right or wrong - it simply is. She wants, no needs, to know. I get it. I'm the same way.

 

However her BF appears to disagree. His past is NONE of your business and tells the minimum.

 

Or, possibly, he doesn't remember and does his best to "fill in the blanks" of his memory. I have had many lovers. I get them confused at times when I try and remember. Names, faces, places and etc. My W asked me those questions and I told her honestly "Im not sure". Because Im not. I try. Sometimes I mis-remember. Sometimes she asks for something I would not have paid attention to. I too try my best and that means a fluid story. Sorry. Not TRYING to lie...just jumbled memories of events I may not have cared about. "How the hell am I supposed to remember the color of her panties? Pink? White? Lemon Yellow? Rainbow? Who the h_ll cares!" I get names wrong, faces wrong...the order wrong...the time frames wrong...h_ll, I cannot remember some names (but can see her face) and sometimes I can remember the name and her breasts...but not her face. You get the idea. Its fluid.

 

Maybe he is trying to remember.

 

Maybe not.

 

Maybe he is just answering with whatever because your interrogation of him, and that's what you are doing, would drive ANYONE insane.

 

Ultimately though this issue has no answer for you with this BF. You will never know the whole truth. Now, if he is carrying that behavior into other aspects of your R - then his lying is clearly a problem in general. If so, bail. Liars are miserable partners. If he only appears to be lying about the past...maybe examine your own attitudes and behaviors - one may be leading to and causing the other in a circle.

 

My advice...bail.

 

I'm not buying the whole "I don't remember...." line from anyone. I've been to bed with over a hundred women and I can remember every name, place, date, position etc etc etc. I may not remember everyone's shoe color or what color of car they drove up in but I can recall every time place, timeline etc etc and so can the OP' s BF.

 

He is just trying to appease her by appearing to try to answer her questions while at the same time trying to distract her and thwart her continued questioning. He is trying to confuse her with half truths, omissions, gas lighting and possibly outright lies.

 

Now the question here is is he being a snake in the grass and trying to pull stuff over on her, or is she out of control paranoid and he is resorting o anything to get her off his back just like a torture victim making up stories to get their interrogator to take the jumper cable off their genitals.

 

My wife tried to get me to tell-all too and I didn't make up stories or try to lawyer or disclaimer my way out of anything. I just said that we would not be having that discussion and that past private matters would remain private.

[Winterina]

I see the OP of the "camp" that wants to know all of the details of the past. It is not right or wrong - it simply is. She wants, no needs, to know. I get it. I'm the same way.

 

However her BF appears to disagree. His past is NONE of your business and tells the minimum.

 

Or, possibly, he doesn't remember and does his best to "fill in the blanks" of his memory. I have had many lovers. I get them confused at times when I try and remember. Names, faces, places and etc. My W asked me those questions and I told her honestly "Im not sure". Because Im not. I try. Sometimes I mis-remember. Sometimes she asks for something I would not have paid attention to. I too try my best and that means a fluid story. Sorry. Not TRYING to lie...just jumbled memories of events I may not have cared about. "How the hell am I supposed to remember the color of her panties? Pink? White? Lemon Yellow? Rainbow? Who the h_ll cares!" I get names wrong, faces wrong...the order wrong...the time frames wrong...h_ll, I cannot remember some names (but can see her face) and sometimes I can remember the name and her breasts...but not her face. You get the idea. Its fluid.

 

Maybe he is trying to remember.

 

Maybe not.

 

Maybe he is just answering with whatever because your interrogation of him, and that's what you are doing, would drive ANYONE insane.

 

Ultimately though this issue has no answer for you with this BF. You will never know the whole truth. Now, if he is carrying that behavior into other aspects of your R - then his lying is clearly a problem in general. If so, bail. Liars are miserable partners. If he only appears to be lying about the past...maybe examine your own attitudes and behaviors - one may be leading to and causing the other in a circle.

 

My advice...bail.

 

 

 

I tried to think along those lines too, that he does not remember well but is trying. But there is a HUGE difference between 7 month and a week. He told me he did not have interest in anyone for years before he met me. So that was an unnecessary lie. I am afraid he might be one of those sweet talkers who say some things to anyone and everyone to hook them up and make them feel special.

 

 

He has had history of lying with me, and he kissed another woman while with his ex (he volunteered the info).

He promised he will spend every day till the rest of his life being the decent man and a good partner to me. That was last year in May. 3 weeks after that, he lied to me again. First time it was about him going to see the show with some female co-worker. Going to her house to watch scary movies for Halloween. And second time it was about porn. It was ruining our sex life and he promised to quit. He did it again anyways and lied he did not, but the mouse was on the left side...

He lied about smoking weed too. It was a deal that it does not happen for more than once a week. So it was not prohibited.

He lied about that photo I already explained about...

 

 

Funny and sad part is that he did not have to lie about any of these. If he just told me he slipped, I would not be angry. Concerned, maybe, but trust would not suffer.

 

 

When caught in these little lies he lies some more to make it look less bad, instead to stop digging the hole he is in and come clean.

 

 

He took other people's side over mine when I was right and I was alone in his city and needed his support. He was better friends to others than me. He saw only later and regretted only later what he has done.

 

 

Now, he is promising what he promised already few times before, how he is never going to do anything like that again (drive me round and around when I am trying to discuss something and get an answer to concrete questions), how he is always going be honest... He keeps repeating how he wants to marry me and all that.

 

 

Thing is I need to see action and not words, I started hating his words because I heard them so many times.

 

 

He is packed up and moved to another room, did not want to leave. I asked him to. I told him that he lost me in a way, that there is a limit to everything and amount of crap I can take. Its been 2 years. If things were to improve they would have improved by now.

I know there is something like a tough adjusting period for some couples, but mine has devastated me. I felt like I cannot trust him fully, I felt no support when I needed it, only later when the thing was over I would get apologies and will never happen agains.

 

 

I am exhausted.

 

 

We just had the best time at a vacation. So sad good times cannot last longer.

 

 

:-(

[Winterina]

I'm not buying the whole "I don't remember...." line from anyone. I've been to bed with over a hundred women and I can remember every name, place, date, position etc etc etc. I may not remember everyone's shoe color or what color of car they drove up in but I can recall every time place, timeline etc etc and so can the OP' s BF.

 

He is just trying to appease her by appearing to try to answer her questions while at the same time trying to distract her and thwart her continued questioning. He is trying to confuse her with half truths, omissions, gas lighting and possibly outright lies.

 

Now the question here is is he being a snake in the grass and trying to pull stuff over on her, or is she out of control paranoid and he is resorting o anything to get her off his back just like a torture victim making up stories to get their interrogator to take the jumper cable off their genitals.

 

My wife tried to get me to tell-all too and I didn't make up stories or try to lawyer or disclaimer my way out of anything. I just said that we would not be having that discussion and that past private matters would remain private.

 

Neither do I buy the I don't remember line and I don't know, his two favourite answers to everything.

He does not realise how much damage he is causing to me and to us.

I wish he grew a pair.

He killed our intimacy and emotional connection with all this BS.

 

 

About me being paranoid... I really cannot tell I am because I have had relationships before and I was paranoid in one of them and now in this one. There is that saying that before you conclude you are depressed and having low self esteem make sure you are not just surrounded by aholes. Same thing for my paranoia, if that is the right word. I think I just have stronger feeling for justice and truth than most people. Some people just bring that "paranoia" out of me, some never do. With those that never do, everything is calmer, happier, better, including sex. When is he going to realise this? I am not asking for much if I ask for honesty, am I? He is all for honesty and then he lies, gaslights me, etc. He is such a sweet guy otherwise and that is what seems at odds with this, but I guess you never know someone until you do. He now seems like anyone else, nothing special about him...

[oldshirt]

I tried to think along those lines too, that he does not remember well but is trying. But there is a HUGE difference between 7 month and a week. He told me he did not have interest in anyone for years before he met me. So that was an unnecessary lie. I am afraid he might be one of those sweet talkers who say some things to anyone and everyone to hook them up and make them feel special.

 

 

He has had history of lying with me, and he kissed another woman while with his ex (he volunteered the info).

He promised he will spend every day till the rest of his life being the decent man and a good partner to me. That was last year in May. 3 weeks after that, he lied to me again. First time it was about him going to see the show with some female co-worker. Going to her house to watch scary movies for Halloween. And second time it was about porn. It was ruining our sex life and he promised to quit. He did it again anyways and lied he did not, but the mouse was on the left side...

He lied about smoking weed too. It was a deal that it does not happen for more than once a week. So it was not prohibited.

He lied about that photo I already explained about...

 

 

Funny and sad part is that he did not have to lie about any of these. If he just told me he slipped, I would not be angry. Concerned, maybe, but trust would not suffer.

 

 

When caught in these little lies he lies some more to make it look less bad, instead to stop digging the hole he is in and come clean.

 

 

He took other people's side over mine when I was right and I was alone in his city and needed his support. He was better friends to others than me. He saw only later and regretted only later what he has done.

 

 

Now, he is promising what he promised already few times before, how he is never going to do anything like that again (drive me round and around when I am trying to discuss something and get an answer to concrete questions), how he is always going be honest... He keeps repeating how he wants to marry me and all that.

 

 

Thing is I need to see action and not words, I started hating his words because I heard them so many times.

 

 

He is packed up and moved to another room, did not want to leave. I asked him to. I told him that he lost me in a way, that there is a limit to everything and amount of crap I can take. Its been 2 years. If things were to improve they would have improved by now.

I know there is something like a tough adjusting period for some couples, but mine has devastated me. I felt like I cannot trust him fully, I felt no support when I needed it, only later when the thing was over I would get apologies and will never happen agains.

 

 

I am exhausted.

 

 

We just had the best time at a vacation. So sad good times cannot last longer.

 

 

:-(

 

He's a lier..unfortunately since his is a lier you have no idea when he's lying vs giving you some truths. That's the problem is once someone lies, you can't believe anything.

 

You say these are all small lies but how do you know they are small?

How do you know what he's really hiding?

 

If trust is broken, a relationship won't work.

[Winterina]

He's a lier..unfortunately since his is a lier you have no idea when he's lying vs giving you some truths. That's the problem is once someone lies, you can't believe anything.

 

You say these are all small lies but how do you know they are small?

How do you know what he's really hiding?

 

If trust is broken, a relationship won't work.

 

Yes, I am afraid so.

 

 

On the other hand, people get over affairs, deceptions of a way more serious kind. So I am wondering why cannot we get over these little lies... oh yes, that's right, it is because they keep repeating and I hear broken promises over and over again.

[jwi71]

I'm not buying the whole "I don't remember...." line from anyone. I've been to bed with over a hundred women and I can remember every name, place, date, position etc etc etc. I may not remember everyone's shoe color or what color of car they drove up in but I can recall every time place, timeline etc etc and so can the OP' s BF.

 

He is just trying to appease her by appearing to try to answer her questions while at the same time trying to distract her and thwart her continued questioning. He is trying to confuse her with half truths, omissions, gas lighting and possibly outright lies.

 

Now the question here is is he being a snake in the grass and trying to pull stuff over on her, or is she out of control paranoid and he is resorting o anything to get her off his back just like a torture victim making up stories to get their interrogator to take the jumper cable off their genitals.

 

My wife tried to get me to tell-all too and I didn't make up stories or try to lawyer or disclaimer my way out of anything. I just said that we would not be having that discussion and that past private matters would remain private.

 

I wish I had your memory!

 

I would love to remember that level of detail - I can't though. Oh well.

Why is it I can remember the shi_tty memories so well and the good ones - nights of debauchery in Yamate are forgotten! That's so not fair.

 

I also agree, and touched on it lightly, that he is either lying in general or about this particular topic. It appears in subsequent posts he is a liar in general and I think the path forward clear:

 

Dump him.

[jwi71]

I tried to think along those lines too, that he does not remember well but is trying. But there is a HUGE difference between 7 month and a week. He told me he did not have interest in anyone for years before he met me. So that was an unnecessary lie. I am afraid he might be one of those sweet talkers who say some things to anyone and everyone to hook them up and make them feel special.

 

 

He has had history of lying with me, and he kissed another woman while with his ex (he volunteered the info).

He promised he will spend every day till the rest of his life being the decent man and a good partner to me. That was last year in May. 3 weeks after that, he lied to me again. First time it was about him going to see the show with some female co-worker. Going to her house to watch scary movies for Halloween. And second time it was about porn. It was ruining our sex life and he promised to quit. He did it again anyways and lied he did not, but the mouse was on the left side...

He lied about smoking weed too. It was a deal that it does not happen for more than once a week. So it was not prohibited.

He lied about that photo I already explained about...

 

 

Funny and sad part is that he did not have to lie about any of these. If he just told me he slipped, I would not be angry. Concerned, maybe, but trust would not suffer.

 

 

When caught in these little lies he lies some more to make it look less bad, instead to stop digging the hole he is in and come clean.

 

 

He took other people's side over mine when I was right and I was alone in his city and needed his support. He was better friends to others than me. He saw only later and regretted only later what he has done.

 

 

Now, he is promising what he promised already few times before, how he is never going to do anything like that again (drive me round and around when I am trying to discuss something and get an answer to concrete questions), how he is always going be honest... He keeps repeating how he wants to marry me and all that.

 

 

Thing is I need to see action and not words, I started hating his words because I heard them so many times.

 

 

He is packed up and moved to another room, did not want to leave. I asked him to. I told him that he lost me in a way, that there is a limit to everything and amount of crap I can take. Its been 2 years. If things were to improve they would have improved by now.

I know there is something like a tough adjusting period for some couples, but mine has devastated me. I felt like I cannot trust him fully, I felt no support when I needed it, only later when the thing was over I would get apologies and will never happen agains.

 

 

I am exhausted.

 

 

We just had the best time at a vacation. So sad good times cannot last longer.

 

 

:-(

 

Absolutely dump him.

 

But, going forward, please do remember that not every man is oldshirt - with perfect memory of the past. Others, like myself, cannot recall it all - it becomes a blur.

 

I'm sorry you're having to go through this - but it only ends when this R ends.

 

Good luck.

[beatcuff]

Reading books improves the ability to express yourself.

 

please direct me to a book that thinks that insulting a poster improves your argument?

 

Why don't you read the thread before commenting on the original post.

 

i ALWAYS do. this is a PAST relationship.

 

If it did not happen to YOU to know what it feels like, then you are one of those people that does these same things to others.

 

i'm sorry you know me? this statement only serves to undermine your creditability.

 

just end it. you will be doing him a favor.

Edited July 13, 2015 by beatcuff

[Winterina]

please direct me to a book that thinks that insulting a poster improves your argument?

 

 

 

i ALWAYS do. this is a PAST relationship.

 

 

 

i'm sorry you know me? this statement only serves to undermine your creditability.

 

just end it. you will be doing him a favor.

 

If you have read the entire thread, you would have seen that his past relationship had nothing to do with our issue that day. It was him lying about it. Even if someone lies about past, or especially if someone lies about past, how can you trust them with the future? That was the point. People who get stuck on repeating something as the ultimate and only truth, like past is in the past leave it in the past, fail to see the differences and appreciate each case on its own merits. I had past. I never lied to him about it. That is how you can leave it in the past.

 

 

I did not mean to insult you. I just got irritated with you asking the same question four times, as if you had nothing to say, as if you will contribute anything at all to us resolving our issue with your, what seems as aggressive and unnecessary, repetition.

 

 

Finally, about your last comment, which also seems aggressive, unhelpful and unfriendly to me, how can I leave someone who does not want me to leave him and who wants to get married? He knows what he has with me. I am awesome to him. We do love each other and we are trying to work through our issues, many of them we already solved, with a lot of work and a lot of love.

Just because you did not like my comment about your useless post, does not mean "i would be doing him a favour by leaving him". That was meant to hurt and to insult.

[Mr. Lucky]

From here:

 

He is packed up and moved to another room, did not want to leave. I asked him to. I told him that he lost me in a way, that there is a limit to everything and amount of crap I can take. Its been 2 years. If things were to improve they would have improved by now.

I know there is something like a tough adjusting period for some couples, but mine has devastated me. I felt like I cannot trust him fully, I felt no support when I needed it, only later when the thing was over I would get apologies and will never happen agains.

He is all for honesty and then he lies, gaslights me, etc. He is such a sweet guy otherwise and that is what seems at odds with this, but I guess you never know someone until you do. He now seems like anyone else, nothing special about him...

 

To here:

 

We do love each other and we are trying to work through our issues, many of them we already solved, with a lot of work and a lot of love.

 

in two days ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[beatcuff]

If you have read the entire thread, you would have seen that his past relationship had nothing to do with our issue that day. It was him lying about it.

 

i understand your position. but you are interrogating him and basing your conclusion on a relationship that occurred some time ago and before you were together. i would be on your side if his 'recollection' of last weekend's boys night out was met with similar responses. but that is not the case. you are trying to trip him up on dates or length or the order or all of them. you should be happy he does not remember: that relationship was not important to him, so his memory is 'foggy'. instead you take it as lying or my term: creating drama.

 

Even if someone lies about past, or especially if someone lies about past, how can you trust them with the future? That was the point.

 

and i agree (to a point: people do change), but you are hanging your hat on a fact set that can be disputed (again it was not last week).

 

i would accept if you mark it as curious and/or an area to be mindful. but nothing more.

 

I just got irritated with you asking the same question four times

 

maybe like your man, you hammered away and tried different angles but received (my words): "you want to fight about THIS?" it seems you wanted to create an issue.

 

your last comment, which seems aggressive, unhelpful and unfriendly to me... was meant to hurt and to insult.

 

if you are upset AND you expect him to 'memorize' events YOU think are important (and maybe he does not) it would be better for both of you to move forward. he should have a mate that lets the small stuff slide and you should have one that places similar importance on certain events.

 

you are not wrong, but in my opinion way over the top and using energy best saved for real issues (back to drama). which leads to this question: do you want to die on this hill?

[Lois_Griffin]

So I am wondering why cannot we get over these little lies... oh yes, that's right, it is because they keep repeating and I hear broken promises over and over again.

It's not "we" getting over the lies and the broken promises. It's YOU trying to get over lie after lie after lie and broken promises, one after the other. It's YOU continually trying to find a way to accept yet another bite of the sh*t sandwich he's been force-feeding you for the last few years.

 

It stops when you decide you're worth better than this.

[lil hoodlum]

I just got irritated with you asking the same question four times,

 

 

 

Imagine how your boyfriend feels when you do this to him?

[Winterina]

I don't have intention to engage individually with everyone who came to argue with me instead of saying something constructive, even criticism which I heard and read, but I would like to thank those several people who got the issue of lying and told me their stories.

 

 

 

 

I come here to LS now and then and I noticed that many people are too quick to say the words break it off, dump him... I know it is easy to say for someone else who does not know him or me or our relationship, feelings for each other, etc.

Maybe I want to "kill him with my bare hands" sometimes, but I do not want to lose him, if that makes sense.

Maybe my judgement about my partner nowadays is affected by our past where I caught him lying a few times... things he lied about are minor but ruined trust. He was not aware of the damage it can do. He did grow as a person in the past two years that we have been together and understood some things. I am covering for him now and the reason for that is that I am still in the relationship with him and that he does love me. We broke up for 5 days last year in May. I have never seen anyone so hurt, so pale and losing weigh in such a short time... when we met again after 5 days he was not himself. I was not myself without him either.

 

 

 

 

Beavis, I know I can come out strong... that might be a combination of low level of tolerance for BS and my honest personality. I hate injustice and I hate sociopaths. So when I see some comment like "why do you make drama why do you make drama why do you make drama why do you make drama..." I feel like there is something wrong with that person or their attitude, intention... Nothing is achieved by such comments, not a thing. I like constructive criticism that will present IN ARGUMENTED WAY the other side of the issue, so that I can understand that there is a VALID other side of the issue. Otherwise, it looks like someone who just tried to piss me off. Thanks to the people that told me that it is hard to remember everything. I know I cannot remember everything either... He made a mistake between a week and 7 month of his life that happened two and a half years ago. Suspicious? YES. Lie? Probably, I don't know, maybe, who knows... I just don't know why would he lie about something like that. If I am getting ready to spend life with someone who will do something like this deliberately, I will not feel safe and it will not work at the end. So from one end he is a great guy, a good friend, a partner I want and who wants me in life forever, on the other hand, these little lies and a couple of things from the past still have effect on me... I guess it means having some doubts in that department. Can this be solved? I really hope so.

I need to learn that when something like this happens I do not get the worst thoughts on the basis of the past, and that I do not have the entire past rush in and cloud my judgement.

Ta-daa

[kendahke]

We just had the best time at a vacation. So sad good times cannot last longer.

 

 

:-(

 

I broke up with my ex of 13 years right after an amazing vacation together. The lies do exhaust you. But I broke up with him and that was 5 years ago. That is what helped me regain my sanity.

 

I seriously doubt you're there yet if you're still living in the same house and you're still involved in each other's day to day living. This will bleed out a while longer until there is physical space between you two, as in ending this and someone moving out altogether.

[kendahke]

I come here to LS now and then and I noticed that many people are too quick to say the words break it off, dump him... I know it is easy to say for someone else who does not know him or me or our relationship, feelings for each other, etc.

 

However, you said your sanity is at risk. You said you're being gas-lighted. By a guy who by your account has no qualms about doing this to you on purpose.

 

Why would anyone, who either does or doesn't know you, encourage you to stay in an intolerable situation where you're saying your sanity is in jeopardy? Unless it's not as serious as you're making it out to be.

 

Some people and relationships really aren't meant to be and a lot of times, with the type of people who want to stay in that kind of strife and stress, it's about them "winning": winning little battles, but losing the war where their sanity, youth and self esteem are the major casualties.

 

So again, I have to ask: What do you want from us? If sacrificing your sanity isn't a big deal for you, as you want to stay with a man who drives a knife through it on the regular, then what do you want us to tell you? We cannot make him be someone he has no interest in being and neither can you. If he doesn't come to that of his own volition, then you have two options: stay and be quiet and content with who you have or bounce.

Edited July 14, 2015 by kendahke

[OldRover]

Winterina,

 

There's a lot of confusion on this thread... but here's my take.

 

I can really believe the guy just can't remember or put things together that happened 2 or 3 years ago.

 

As for the current lies, for the most part, of what you've said, they seem pretty simple or a non issue.

 

I sense that you're paranoid about trusting him (maybe any man), and you're letting ever little thing bother you and questioning his every move.

 

Not saying he's perfect, but I'd sure like to hear his story.

 

I dated a lady like you and never lied to her, but she would question everything, and a lot I just couldn't remember and was a non issue. And there were things that I just didn't tell her, because it was a non issue..... like where I went shopping or if I stopped at the post office, or even if I stopped to see my buddies for a drink (and there are other women around).

 

I had no problem telling her anything she wanted to know, but deep details about history were not appropriate, if only used to spark and argument. We knew plenty of each other before getting involved, and she probably knew much more about me than I did of her.

 

Her mistrust in me ended our relationship, but I tried hard to fix it. I just couldn't be with a lady that was only giving 95%, and told her so many times. So I left.... even though it was painful, there was no future with that kind of stress.

 

Now, if your's is similar to the above, you can make it work.... let him know your parameters of what you want to know, but you'll probably need to give him some space, too. Overall, I feel that you're over reacting and it's probably driving him nuts.

 

If I'm wrong, and you're convinced that he's too much of a lier for you, then you need to pack your bags and put him behind.

 

Best of luck.

[Winterina]

Winterina,

 

There's a lot of confusion on this thread... but here's my take.

 

I can really believe the guy just can't remember or put things together that happened 2 or 3 years ago.

 

As for the current lies, for the most part, of what you've said, they seem pretty simple or a non issue.

 

I sense that you're paranoid about trusting him (maybe any man), and you're letting ever little thing bother you and questioning his every move.

 

Not saying he's perfect, but I'd sure like to hear his story.

 

I dated a lady like you and never lied to her, but she would question everything, and a lot I just couldn't remember and was a non issue. And there were things that I just didn't tell her, because it was a non issue..... like where I went shopping or if I stopped at the post office, or even if I stopped to see my buddies for a drink (and there are other women around).

 

I had no problem telling her anything she wanted to know, but deep details about history were not appropriate, if only used to spark and argument. We knew plenty of each other before getting involved, and she probably knew much more about me than I did of her.

 

Her mistrust in me ended our relationship, but I tried hard to fix it. I just couldn't be with a lady that was only giving 95%, and told her so many times. So I left.... even though it was painful, there was no future with that kind of stress.

 

Now, if your's is similar to the above, you can make it work.... let him know your parameters of what you want to know, but you'll probably need to give him some space, too. Overall, I feel that you're over reacting and it's probably driving him nuts.

 

If I'm wrong, and you're convinced that he's too much of a lier for you, then you need to pack your bags and put him behind.

 

Best of luck.

 

I appreciate your case and it seemed completely different than mine. I do not have trouble trusting men in general and I trusted him too before he lied last year.

I already said a few times that it is normal not to remember things, but that difference between 7 month and 7 days for something that happened 2.5 years ago is too much to believe. Nobody asked him about history he volunteered some information before and when his old messages popped up it did not match his story... I wondered why. That's all.

 

 

And about your comment in bold, which makes all the sense, I have a question that is more for me than anyone here... how do you know when someone is "too much of a liar"? A few small lies here and there are ok? I kind of lose trust even after small comments and this might be the effect of it. Hope I get over it.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Winterina

[autumnnight]

Let me see if I have this straight...

 

He at some point said something about some woman he may or may not have had a date with or crushed on before you began dating him.

 

You looked at messages from that time period, which would have been over 2 years ago.

 

What he said, probably offhand, at some point in time, did not match up with the message timeline.

 

He didn't remember everything from this woman, who by all accounts was never actually a girlfriend.

 

You basically badgered him about how many months he had known her, even though they never had a relationship.

 

And now he is a gaslighting liar who probably cheated and cannot be trusted.

 

Am I missing some other thread about this, because the above just sounds like a bunch of unsubstantiated guessing and hand-wringing after the fact about something that was long over.

 

So....forgetting about a woman you never went out with is a bigger sin than betraying a man who served our country...good to know.

[Winterina]

However, you said your sanity is at risk. You said you're being gas-lighted. By a guy who by your account has no qualms about doing this to you on purpose.

 

Why would anyone, who either does or doesn't know you, encourage you to stay in an intolerable situation where you're saying your sanity is in jeopardy? Unless it's not as serious as you're making it out to be.

 

Some people and relationships really aren't meant to be and a lot of times, with the type of people who want to stay in that kind of strife and stress, it's about them "winning": winning little battles, but losing the war where their sanity, youth and self esteem are the major casualties.

 

So again, I have to ask: What do you want from us? If sacrificing your sanity isn't a big deal for you, as you want to stay with a man who drives a knife through it on the regular, then what do you want us to tell you? We cannot make him be someone he has no interest in being and neither can you. If he doesn't come to that of his own volition, then you have two options: stay and be quiet and content with who you have or bounce.

 

 

You have to take into consideration that I posted right after our conversation that day. When all the bad memories rushed in. In those moments yes I wonder if I can make it with him and I do question if it is me or him that created the crazy situation.

I did not say that generally things are fine. I did not say all the good things. Because at those moments I fail to acknowledge them and see only negative, more from fear that some things will or are repeating, than from actual thing... but how does one know the difference? Is it really so that him not remembering something was going on for 7 month and telling me it was only about 7 days not a lie, rather than just "he forgot"... Forgot 7 month of his life that happened just before he met me two years ago? I don't know...

 

 

Lie or he forgot? Just telling you how hard it is to know... And to repeat, no, his past is not important here and I do not care if it was 7 days or 7 month. It is about lying or not lying. These things have no place in my relationship.

[Winterina]

Let me see if I have this straight...

 

He at some point said something about some woman he may or may not have had a date with or crushed on before you began dating him.

 

You looked at messages from that time period, which would have been over 2 years ago.

 

What he said, probably offhand, at some point in time, did not match up with the message timeline.

 

He didn't remember everything from this woman, who by all accounts was never actually a girlfriend.

 

You basically badgered him about how many months he had known her, even though they never had a relationship.

 

And now he is a gaslighting liar who probably cheated and cannot be trusted.

 

Am I missing some other thread about this, because the above just sounds like a bunch of unsubstantiated guessing and hand-wringing after the fact about something that was long over.

 

So....forgetting about a woman you never went out with is a bigger sin than betraying a man who served our country...good to know.

 

We are not talking about timeline that was a bit off. He was trying to date her for 7 month. He told me it was 7 days.

 

 

Nobody served my country and needs not serve my country as we are pacifists and do not go to kill people elsewhere for our own interests.

 

 

In that spirit, since this turned into something else, I will leave to dedicate my time to something more productive and positive dealing with issue that is no longer on my agenda.

[LivingDeadGrl]

Winterina,

 

I tend to agree with the people here that say you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Reading your first post was a bit exhausting. I felt sorry for the guy, to be honest.

 

However; I can relate to your mental state as having dealt with someone who lied about his past relationships, what he bought at the grocery store, what someone said to him in a conversation, why he was looking at some girl etc

It is really hard to just go back to completely trusting someone who you seem to catch in little lies all the time, and I don't mean "You don't look fat in that dress" type of lies. You know what kind of lies I mean.

I am 100 percent always wanting the truth about everything and you sound like you do as well. People like us can't deal with being lied to, regardless of when it was. It works on us, drives us crazy. We want to know the purpose of the lie.

I don't know your boyfriend, and he probably is not anywhere near as bad as what my ex was, but the mental exhaustion isn't worth it. If you have to question something so deeply that happened 2-3 years ago, there's already major issues.

Maybe he told you some things relating to his past, so you would think better of him. A lot of people will say what they think another wants to hear in the beginning. I think we are all a little guilty of trying to make ourselves look good in the start of a relationship, no?

I think if you want this to work you have to let it go. Men unfortunately do not have the best memories either, so you can't blame him for not remembering something that may have meant absolutely nothing to him so long ago.

 

Good luck

[BlueIris]

OP, I read just the first page, so I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but along the lines of what Lil Hoodlum said… I know I just forget. If I wasn’t serious about someone in the past, my memory of him is just a blip, insignificant. Also, sometimes I’ll have communicated with someone sporadically over the course of months and not interacted much so it registers as a mini-relationship.

 

I can see myself saying what your guy said-

 

Him: October?!!

Me: Yes, October, when you met her.

Him: 7 month??!! No, it was not that long.

 

And I’d be thinking, “Oh my god was it really that long? It couldn’t be! No way. I was talking to that guy that long? What else was I doing then? Was I busy? Why has my brain erased that?!?!“