Revenge [pertaining to infidelity]

[seany25]

I was going to enact a different type of revenge in retaliation to what my ex gf done to me..

 

We were together a few months & she finished it. A few months later she contacts me pregnant assuring me the baby's mine. But she denied me absolutely everything to do with seeing my first child into the world. She totally ignored me & the entire thing was a nightmare for me.

 

During the pregnancy she was screwing around, before she discovered she was pregnant & after.

 

I was so mad I was fantasizing about castrating any & all men who she had sex with whist she carried my baby.

 

I don't care that we weren't together. That gave me no comfort.

 

I had to make a decision - either do something really drastic causing serious life changing injury or death to one or many men. Or, move away far, avoiding the very real possibility of going to prison for a very long time.

 

I moved away.... The pain & anger followed me but at least there was less chance of the extreme physical pain I was picturing carrying out would happen.

 

It hasn't always been easy, & I do still deep down despise my child's mother, but a lot of good things are in my life now. I'm in a much better place.

[xxoo]

This is true. It would be nice to for more women to beware of the great lengths a man will go to lie. My advice now for any woman who has a man chasing her that seems all that and a bag of chips, who is swearing he is done with the marriage, separated, in house separation, and all that jazz is simply to ask, okay you have an attorney.

 

 

If he does not, then tell him to contact you when he does and because you know men lie (He will put up with this if he interested enough) then you would like a short call to his attorney (with his permission) to confirm this. And the call would only be a simple question, no specific details of the split.

 

 

But what he may not know and I have seen, is a lawyer, (moreso if you have a family that is well known, or lawyers or judges in the family) especially if there is a lot of bad and messy in the divorce, extreme baggage, the attorney may say on a side note, gotta tell you stay out of this one or stay away.....warning.

 

I'd ask to meet his wife. If the marriage is over, and he's free to find a new partner, surely she'd be happy to confirm.

[xxoo]

The reality is that most MM never intend for an A to survive reality and their reason for being in an A is not to end their marriage. If they wanted to end their M, they would get a D.

 

Exactly. Exposure bursts the bubble of the affair. It's not fun anymore when reality sets in. He wanted cake (pleasure, fun, escape), not a relationship he'd change his life to maintain.

[Timshel]

Exactly. Exposure bursts the bubble of the affair. It's not fun anymore when reality sets in. He wanted cake (pleasure, fun, escape), not a relationship he'd change his life to maintain.

 

I chose not to expose for my children's sake and tbh my sake, because I knew I was leaving. Here's the thing that catches me on exposure.....I always felt like I had some culpability in that I had picked him. I said the vows, married him, built a life with him and had children with him. I took my choice to be with this guy that betrayed me on myself.

 

I felt like, who am I to go about spouting and spreading negativity, personal issues onto innocent and unsuspecting people in our circle of existence? Why do my own choices become their awkward and irrelevant (to their own lives) problem?

 

This is the reason I chose silence when dealing with my husband's infidelity and why I guess I still choose to keep my most intimate mistakes to myself.

 

Most of all, I kept zipped for my kids though.

[WasOtherWoman]

We lost our dear retriever in first year post dday. He'd been given rat poison in meat. The other woman had been witnessed at our address while we were at work. She was subsequently arrested (she'd travelled 360 miles from her home to ours that day) and prosecuted.

 

 

Oh my GOD. Sleeping with my husband is one thing.... poisoning my dog is entirely another. I'd kill her myself....

[sandylee1]

I don't know how children usually find out and I doubt you do either.

 

 

My friends daughter found out about their father's affair/s.

He gave his daughter an old iPad, not realising there were some emails and photos of two OCs he had, with two OW.

 

She and her sister had the agonising job of telling their mother what they found. My friend was actually more distraught that the kids found out first.

[NewLeaf512]

There's a difference between revenge and consequences of actions.

 

 

Keying the AP's car or assaulting them or slashing their tires or vandalizing their house etc is an act of vengeance for no other reason than to cause them pain. Those are acts that can land you in legal trouble or come back to haunt you in a divorce trial or custody arrangements etc.

 

 

Other things like informing the AP's spouse or employer etc if they are in violation of policy or ethics clauses etc is a consequence of action.

 

 

Informing the AP's spouse that the AP is cheating on them is simply the right thing to do in the AP's spouse has a basic need to know what the state of their marriage is.

 

 

The fallout that comes from exposure is simply a consequence of their action. It's not being done to bring harm to them per se but rather for disclosure for other parties with a legitimate need to know.

 

I wonder how you would reconcile that with AP exposing WS to church or employer. I could do that but why? Of course I think ExMM is a hypocrite for helping pass out the communion and that ExMM used work mobile to send me things about the A. It would only hurt his family if he lost his job etc., so that doesn't feel like something I'd be ok with.

[velvette]

Oh my GOD. Sleeping with my husband is one thing.... poisoning my dog is entirely another. I'd kill her myself....

 

That's a special kind of evil.

[autumnnight]

I wonder how you would reconcile that with AP exposing WS to church or employer. I could do that but why? Of course I think ExMM is a hypocrite for helping pass out the communion and that ExMM used work mobile to send me things about the A. It would only hurt his family if he lost his job etc., so that doesn't feel like something I'd be ok with.

 

If he did not want to lose his job, he should not have conducted the Affair on company time, possibly with company resources, and with another company employee (especially if there is any kind of ethics policy).

 

As far as church goes, I am not a believer that someone who has an affair has to have it spread all over church if they repent because, quite frankly, Matthew 18 covers that quite clearly. However, if there is church leadership involved, then ABSOLUTELY it should be exposed. And no way in heck can the WS/AP continue to attend the same church. I don't care how big it is or how many different services there are.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Oh my GOD. Sleeping with my husband is one thing.... poisoning my dog is entirely another. I'd kill her myself....

 

This reminded me of one of the Sex in the City movies.

 

Charlotte thinks her husband is getting to close too the nanny.

 

Miranda sits her down to talk about it. Taking shots between difficult thoughts to say outloud.

 

PARAPHRASING.

 

Charlotte: this thought is really bad...

 

Miranda: say it

 

Charlotte: is it bad that my first thought about Harry cheating was ....I CANT LOSE THE NANNY.

[NewLeaf512]

If he did not want to lose his job, he should not have conducted the Affair on company time, possibly with company resources, and with another company employee (especially if there is any kind of ethics policy).

 

As far as church goes, I am not a believer that someone who has an affair has to have it spread all over church if they repent because, quite frankly, Matthew 18 covers that quite clearly. However, if there is church leadership involved, then ABSOLUTELY it should be exposed. And no way in heck can the WS/AP continue to attend the same church. I don't care how big it is or how many different services there are.

 

 

He is a warden in his Church. I live in a different country and do not attend that Church.

[NewLeaf512]

To be clear, exposure doesn't "force" anything. Have you ever watched the show, Intervention? Sometimes the only way to wake someone up is to have them look what they are doing in the face, with all of its ramifications.

 

At any rate, a BS telling family and friends about an A in order to get the support they so desperately need, or letting a boss know that two of his/her employees are possible squandering company times and resources are not "revenge."

 

 

What if the WS or AP exposes? How do you view that?

 

 

In my case when ex MM and I (OW) were in my home country, exMM presented as though he was separated and therefore, was included in my group of friends, etc.

[autumnnight]

What if the WS or AP exposes? How do you view that?

 

 

In my case when ex MM and I (OW) were in my home country, exMM presented as though he was separated and therefore, was included in my group of friends, etc.

 

Honestly, IMO, the best case scenario for recovery is when a WS exposes themselves. First to their spouse and then to a small group of supportive friends of the marriage.

 

As for the AP, I know some do it out of spite or to force the WS' hand, but I do believe that some do it for honorable reasons, and certainly if the WS won't go away, that is an option.

 

My basic opinion is that any affair-busting exposure should be done by the BS, and confession and/or exposure after the end should be done by the WS and/or BS in a timely manner after D-day. In other words, if Judy confessed 10 years ago and ended the A and they have worked through recovery, there is no need for exposure to be done 10 years down the line. However, if Judy hid id all those years, and Bob found out about it yesterday, exposure MAY be appropriate for support. BUT, it isn't anybody's business to expose except Bob and/or Judy. If Judy works in my office or I follow her on Pinterest, it isn't my job to insert myself into her marriage as some sort of Don Quixote tattletale.

[NewLeaf512]

This truly is a fascinating thread! I don't know where to begin :/

 

Firstly I must correct some info in my post about a milion pages ago. Broderick was in fact found guilty of 2nd-degree murder. So similarly to Harris, a jury believed that the killings she committed were not premeditated. So there you go!

 

Secondly I have to comment on young marriage. We now know that the brain is not fully devrloped until approximately 25 years of age. Some of the last areas to mature are in the prefrontal cortex; the area of the brain responsible for emotion regulation, risk assessment and impulse control (amongst other things). Given this, it is absolutely no surprise that one of the biggest predictors of divorce is marriage under the age of 25. And further, that the rise in average age when first married (28 for females and 30 for men where I am) is a contributing factor in the falling divorce rate.

 

Yep, throughout the developed world while marriage rates in general are falling, the percentage of those marriages ending in divorce is falling as well. Interesting times!

 

Now back to revenge...

 

This whole thread is essentially about game theory in application. Game theory as in strategic decision making. (I'm a much bigger fan of the behavioral science elements than the math :-) I'm assuming that most of you have been exposed to prisoner's dillema?

 

Human cooperation, and the form and extent of it, is all about constant decision making with reference to risk and return. We constantly calculate what behaviour in a certain circumstance will deliver the biggest return calculated against probability of loss; variously consciously and not.

 

When revenge as discussed here is put through this prism it's actually all understable (if not necessarily excusable). One BS will choose to widely expose an OW because in their context it delivers an emotional dividend that far exceeds the relationship cost given there is no relationship currency with the OW (and therefore little risk) from the action. Conversely, their treatment of the WS will be more measured because there is more risk to self intetest in taking action in this sphere.

 

While another BS may carpet bomb expose a WS because in their calculation the payoff of humiliating and shaming a spouse is a precondition of reconciliation; which to that spouse is the ultimate payoff.

 

And lets not forget my fellow OW who feel the compulsion to confess to a BS... after the A has ended. While some maybe altruistic in their intentions, some are playing vengeful tit for tat. They no longer have a relationship investment so now can afford the risk of seeking payoff by hoping to upset the M.

 

Simplistic examples I know, but I'm sure you can extrapolate to the more complex where full contexts include children, and other factors.

 

Generous tit for tat is known to be a generically effective strategy. I wonder if that holds true for romantic relationships?

 

 

Wow! Favourite post so far on any thread. You seamlessly combined Decision Science and Human Behaviour in a way that made it very digestible to everyone. John Nash (RIP) would be proud! Well done! In another thread an esteemed poster (to me she is a BS of her own mind and whilst I don't always agree with her, she certainly gets the grey matter moving) suggested that perhaps I was so interested in all these topics was because I wanted exMM back or his marriage to fall apart but in actual fact, I like to have raw data and derive it into data sets to help me understand things.

We can use your risk/reward model, but perhaps in an A prior to the DDay and revenge thoughts, AP and WS are operating on more of a probability/outcome model.

 

 

Regarding revenge, I believe if you are a creationist there are examples of revenge (eye for an eye) and so on. If you are not a creationist but more of a universalist, you may believe in Karmic retribution.

 

 

This thread has mostly been about BS taking revenge on either WS or AP and not the other permutations, such as the AP taking revenge on WS.

 

 

In my eyes, revenge is a wasted game with a boomerang effect. As in an eye for an eye, there are now 2 partially sighted people. If BS wants to expose or get revenge on WS painting WS with the scarlet letter and stays with him she often looks weak or that BS had to shame WS into staying, if AP does anything they are mad, insane, crazy nuts who need to be locked away. The potential for collateral damage is too high. I'll get my just desserts for being OW and exMM will too someday but it won't be at my hands.

[hotpotato]

Oh my GOD. Sleeping with my husband is one thing.... poisoning my dog is entirely another. I'd kill her myself....

 

Wow. Id hunt her down like a wild animal.

[cocorico]

Even where it becomes necessary to discuss negative behavior by one parent care should be taken how that's done and neither parent should be trying to alienate the child from the other. Children will eventually decide for themselves and are pretty astute about seeing the strengths and weaknesses of both parents.

 

This is a difficult one. We probably erred in the wrong direction, trying not to alienate the kids from their mother (xBW) when they wanted nothing to do with her. We encouraged them to keep at least some contact, when they would have preferred none. It's always hard to know, until later.

[NewLeaf512]

If he did not want to lose his job, he should not have conducted the Affair on company time, possibly with company resources, and with another company employee (especially if there is any kind of ethics policy).

 

As far as church goes, I am not a believer that someone who has an affair has to have it spread all over church if they repent because, quite frankly, Matthew 18 covers that quite clearly. However, if there is church leadership involved, then ABSOLUTELY it should be exposed. And no way in heck can the WS/AP continue to attend the same church. I don't care how big it is or how many different services there are.

 

Just to be clear: you think the OW should expose exMM to someone at his church if he has a leadership role?

[autumnnight]

Just to be clear: you think the OW should expose exMM to someone at his church if he has a leadership role?

 

I may have misunderstood your initial question.

 

If a church leader has an affair, SOMEONE should expose that, and he/she should step down until some counseling and amends and such has been made.

[NewLeaf512]

I may have misunderstood your initial question.

 

If a church leader has an affair, SOMEONE should expose that, and he/she should step down until some counseling and amends and such has been made.

 

 

ExMM is a church leader and the only ones who know are ExMM , me OW and BS

[Susmay]

Was this the thread where there was some confusion about what the OP meant? Then posters said he'd clarified what he meant but he hadn't. Sorry if I've got this wrong but there are at least 2 similar threads on revenge after infidelity, with many posts, and the threads have been moved from where they originally were.

 

 

Anyway in the original post he talks about revenge on the BS and the OW/OM. Later people discuss revenge on the WS. There's also the question of who's taking the revenge, so there a number of permutations of revenge relationships.

 

 

Here are my thoughts on exposure as a form of revenge, where nothing that is illegal or could be a legal (civil or criminal) offence occurs:

 

 

BS exposing the WS: This is up to the BS, but seems counterproductive if the BS and WS have agreed to at least try to reconcile. The BS and WS have made promises to each other that they may want to keep.

 

 

BS exposing the OW/OM: Again up to the BS. Again the BS needs to consider whether this will adversely impact her own family, marriage, support systems and wellbeing. Generally the BS has not made any promises to the AP so may consider s/he has no obligations to keep it a secret. Exposure is a good way of ending the A because often the OW/OM is embarrassed by what has happened and doesn't want others to know.

 

 

The WS exposing the OW/OM: Hmm seems it may be a breach of whatever agreements/arrangements the APs may have made. Perhaps the BS may insist on it. Generally after several years on LS I have rarely (if ever) seen this.

 

 

The OW/OM exposing the WS: Probably also a breach of whatever private arrangements the APs have made, but very common. Rationalisations abound from the OW/OM as to why they did it, or are contemplating it.

 

 

The OW/OM exposing the BS: The idea seems odd at first but sometimes OW/OM see the BS being cheated on as a weakness, or feel the BS is a bad person so assume (sometimes wrongly) that the BS is as worried about exposure of either the BS themselves or their WS.

 

 

My only experience of exposure is as the BW exposing the OW where I felt it could do her most damage and my WH no damage, and of exposing my WH to family and friends as a means of getting support for myself and our marriage recovery. Fortunately they no longer worked together and we move in different circles so there was virtually no overlap or crossover. I didn't regret this (it was many years ago now) and there was no adverse impact on me.

[velvette]

Was this the thread where there was some confusion about what the OP meant? Then posters said he'd clarified what he meant but he hadn't. Sorry if I've got this wrong but there are at least 2 similar threads on revenge after infidelity, with many posts, and the threads have been moved from where they originally were.

 

 

Anyway in the original post he talks about revenge on the BS and the OW/OM. Later people discuss revenge on the WS. There's also the question of who's taking the revenge, so there a number of permutations of revenge relationships.

 

 

Here are my thoughts on exposure as a form of revenge, where nothing that is illegal or could be a legal (civil or criminal) offence occurs:

 

 

BS exposing the WS: This is up to the BS, but seems counterproductive if the BS and WS have agreed to at least try to reconcile. The BS and WS have made promises to each other that they may want to keep.

 

 

BS exposing the OW/OM: Again up to the BS. Again the BS needs to consider whether this will adversely impact her own family, marriage, support systems and wellbeing. Generally the BS has not made any promises to the AP so may consider s/he has no obligations to keep it a secret. Exposure is a good way of ending the A because often the OW/OM is embarrassed by what has happened and doesn't want others to know.

 

 

The WS exposing the OW/OM: Hmm seems it may be a breach of whatever agreements/arrangements the APs may have made. Perhaps the BS may insist on it. Generally after several years on LS I have rarely (if ever) seen this.

 

 

The OW/OM exposing the WS: Probably also a breach of whatever private arrangements the APs have made, but very common. Rationalisations abound from the OW/OM as to why they did it, or are contemplating it.

 

 

The OW/OM exposing the BS: The idea seems odd at first but sometimes OW/OM see the BS being cheated on as a weakness, or feel the BS is a bad person so assume (sometimes wrongly) that the BS is as worried about exposure of either the BS themselves or their WS.

 

 

My only experience of exposure is as the BW exposing the OW where I felt it could do her most damage and my WH no damage, and of exposing my WH to family and friends as a means of getting support for myself and our marriage recovery. Fortunately they no longer worked together and we move in different circles so there was virtually no overlap or crossover. I didn't regret this (it was many years ago now) and there was no adverse impact on me.

 

Good synopsis. The only thing you left out is inadvertent exposure because the AP's are clueless that everyone around them is observing their behavior and knows they are having an affair or they tell one person "who will never tell anyone" except they do and then that person tells another and so on and so on.

 

 

Usually this happens in workplace affairs. Seen it a million times. Often there is exposure to BS or employers from this process and it may be revenge related having to do with animosity in the workplace between coworkers and having really nothing to do with the affair.

[cocorico]

 

BS exposing the WS: This is up to the BS, but seems counterproductive if the BS and WS have agreed to at least try to reconcile. The BS and WS have made promises to each other that they may want to keep.

 

 

BS exposing the OW/OM: Again up to the BS. Again the BS needs to consider whether this will adversely impact her own family, marriage, support systems and wellbeing. Generally the BS has not made any promises to the AP so may consider s/he has no obligations to keep it a secret. Exposure is a good way of ending the A because often the OW/OM is embarrassed by what has happened and doesn't want others to know.

 

 

The WS exposing the OW/OM: Hmm seems it may be a breach of whatever agreements/arrangements the APs may have made. Perhaps the BS may insist on it. Generally after several years on LS I have rarely (if ever) seen this.

 

 

The OW/OM exposing the WS: Probably also a breach of whatever private arrangements the APs have made, but very common. Rationalisations abound from the OW/OM as to why they did it, or are contemplating it.

 

 

The OW/OM exposing the BS: The idea seems odd at first but sometimes OW/OM see the BS being cheated on as a weakness, or feel the BS is a bad person so assume (sometimes wrongly) that the BS is as worried about exposure of either the BS themselves or their WS.

 

 

There is also The WS exposing the BS: In this situation, the APs feel they have the moral high ground, often due to abuse or other toxic behaviour by the BS, and feel no shame in having others know about their R. The BS, however, relies on their image of being "the one who is always in the right", and so being exposed as the perpetrator of wrong is deeply damage NB to their sense of identity. All the more if they feel a sense of embarrassment at being cuckolded or otherwise subjected to infidelity.

 

I've seen a number of those.

[SolG]

Wow! Favourite post so far on any thread. You seamlessly combined Decision Science and Human Behaviour in a way that made it very digestible to everyone. John Nash (RIP) would be proud! Well done!

 

...in actual fact, I like to have raw data and derive it into data sets to help me understand...

 

Ah yes, RIP indeed. Wherever Nash is in his afterlife I hope he has found his 'equilibrium'. Lol :-D (Well, that amused me if not anyone else... *sigh*)

 

NewLeaf I totally get the pursuit of understanding. It's what I do too. And as an OW I do find the theory and research helpful. But just as equally threads and blogs like this that give the human dimension.

 

These stories of revenge all come from such pain.

[Susmay]

Good synopsis. The only thing you left out is inadvertent exposure ...

 

 

...

 

There is also The WS exposing the BS: ....

 

 

 

 

As I mentioned there are several permutations and I left out some. Others I've heard of are the BS and OW/OM banding together to expose the WS, or the WS and OW/OM ganging up on the BS, or the WS and BS (ie married to each other) ganging up on the OW/OM (this I've seen a few times), or as happened a little in my case, the 2 BWs getting together to expose the one OW who'd been having affairs with both our husbands. I'm sure there are others as well, especially when you factor in children, other family members, colleagues, fellow churchgoers etc.

[regret143]

I quit coming back, because the thread was "hijacked", hahaha

 

Anyways, the revenge would be mine (BS) on the OM. Exposure to his friends and family is not an option anymore, his wife did it. And also divorced him.

My idea was to either humiliate and embarrass him, or hurt his business. He works with his father, mother and sister, they have a real estate agency.

What I could have done (now it's too late) was to create a situation where he would be really, really mad at me (wouldn't be difficult, I already had options), to the point that he would come to my house to do something about it. Then either get him arrested, or shoot him (I live in Texas, so I would walk away).