angel.eyes Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Like it or not hooking up, and it's consequences, have been around since time im memoriam. Since you mention "polite" society around Civil War times: Novels from relatively recent history do depict cads (yesteryear's playas) who ran around, played the field with gullible women who thought they cared, hurt their feelings, ruined their reputations and prospects, etc. Try Edith Wharton, Thomas Hardy, Jane Austen, Gustav Flaubert...the list of authors who have dealt with this topic in their novels is endless. Pick any time period in history, and there will be some discussion of hooking up, sexual promiscuity in general, and its consequences. I just saw Mozart's Le nozze di Figaro. Guess what the storyline of the opera is? Yup, the count trying to hookup with his wife's maid. The nobility, and certainly royalty, were highly promiscuous. Henry VIII, who repeatedly remarried, nevertheless had a small army of illegitimate children on the side. Based on who inherited certain rare diseases that are common in European Royal Houses, it's clear that women, not just men (who were pretty open about it) commonly fooled around. The only differences from today's hookup culture: women bore the brunt of shaming (not guys) and they dealt with its consequences--unwanted pregnancy. But then again, has that really changed? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Like it or not hooking up, and it's consequences, have been around since time im memoriam. Since you mention "polite" society around Civil War times: Novels from relatively recent history do depict cads (yesteryear's playas) who ran around, played the field with gullible women who thought they cared, hurt their feelings, ruined their reputations and prospects, etc. Try Edith Wharton, Thomas Hardy, Jane Austen, Gustav Flaubert...the list of authors who have dealt with this topic in their novels is endless. Pick any time period in history, and there will be some discussion of hooking up, sexual promiscuity in general, and its consequences. I just saw Mozart's Le nozze di Figaro. Guess what the storyline of the opera is? Yup, the count trying to hookup with his wife's maid. The nobility, and certainly royalty, were highly promiscuous. Henry VIII, who repeatedly remarried, nevertheless had a small army of illegitimate children on the side. Based on who inherited certain rare diseases that are common in European Royal Houses, it's clear that women, not just men (who were pretty open about it) commonly fooled around. The only differences from today's hookup culture: women bore the brunt of shaming (not guys) and they dealt with its consequences--unwanted pregnancy. But then again, has that really changed? The big difference is now.... nobody is tricking anyone. It's all out in the open and both sexes seem to be doing it.. turbo charge by instagram, snapchat and Facebook. It takes minutes to find one of your dudes or chicks for a hookup. There are also no apologies for it It's the norm. Very different from before when therr was courtship and getting to know someone a bit. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
angel.eyes Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 We went out on a few dates at first-then he said that a relationship was taking a backseat. After that we just hooked-up. We would see each other every 2 weeks-at times I was more invested in it than he was. He didn't really care much about it-He would reply, I'm busy, I'll text you next time I'm free, etc, etc. He just stopped replying when I asked if he wanted to see me. Sounds like you were looking for dating and a relationship when this started. When that's the case, don't agree to a downgrade should the guy tell you he doesn't want that anymore. Walk away. By demoting you, he's telling you that you don't have whatever it is that will get him to focus on you and invest emotionally in you. He'll continue tostick around as long as it's convenient and beneficial for him, if you're agreeable, but he no longer cares about you. That's not a good spot because you still care. Spending more time with him will only result in you becoming more attached...and when he leaves, which will happen, more hurt than you would have experienced if you left when the relationship first went into reverse. You don't go backwards when you're dating. When you do, it's a signal that things will be ending. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Brigit_1 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The big difference is now.... nobody is tricking anyone. It's all out in the open and both sexes seem to be doing it.. turbo charge by instagram, snapchat and Facebook. It takes minutes to find one of your dudes or chicks for a hookup. There are also no apologies for it It's the norm. Very different from before when therr was courtship and getting to know someone a bit. The only thing that hasn't changed is that only women can get pregnant and women who sleep around are still looked down upon by society. In a way it's great that girls are now able to express themselves sexually with less restraint. But I can't help but wonder if they are only doing this because they're worried if they don't guys won't like them? I have a feeling that many of these "liberated" women are really just kidding themselves. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 can't help but wonder if they are only doing this because they're worried if they don't guys won't like them? I wish i knew... All i can say is they force the hookup culture with me. If you show actual interest in a modern single girl, they don't like it. If you keep them at an arm's length and contact them every once in a while, they are far more interested. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 ...but there also was something called "courtship." Even way back before the Civil War there was something called courtly love, that was practiced at least be the upper echelons of society. Yea, they call that the Victorian era... followed the Cretaceous Period Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The only thing that hasn't changed is that only women can get pregnant and women who sleep around are still looked down upon by society. In a way it's great that girls are now able to express themselves sexually with less restraint. But I can't help but wonder if they are only doing this because they're worried if they don't guys won't like them? I have a feeling that many of these "liberated" women are really just kidding themselves. I don't think they are kidding anyone. These women are horney as hell and want the sex. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The big difference is now.... Very different from before when therr was courtship and getting to know someone a bit. What I don't get is why people presume our current time to be unique in the annals of sexual history. Sure there are nuances, I get that. What a lot of these threads do is ask why... followed by a huge presumption that is not at all established, and then everyone starts speculating about why something is true when it's actually not true, or certainly not in the black and white way that it was presented. Placing the word why before an assumption does not turn it into an incontrovertible fact. So, yea we've had periods where there were intricate courtship routines prescribed by etiquette and social stratification. We also had times when warriors raided other tribe's camps and stole all the women, and then there were times when you just picked out one you liked and bonked her on the head. In all seriousness, young folks are simply comparing their perception of the way things were as adolescents to the way they perceive them ten years later. What is changing in ten years is the individual's perceptions not the societal/sexual paradigms. I was a young guy in the 60-70s. I think y'all need to do a little reading about that era before you declare 2010s to be the decade of sexual revolution and hookup culture. What's actually new? Now you can text; we had to call. Link to post Share on other sites
Brigit_1 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 What I don't get is why people presume our current time to be unique in the annals of sexual history. Sure there are nuances, I get that. What a lot of these threads do is ask why... followed by a huge presumption that is not at all established, and then everyone starts speculating about why something is true when it's actually not true, or certainly not in the black and white way that it was presented. Placing the word why before an assumption does not turn it into an incontrovertible fact. So, yea we've had periods where there were intricate courtship routines prescribed by etiquette and social stratification. We also had times when warriors raided other tribe's camps and stole all the women, and then there were times when you just picked out one you liked and bonked her on the head. In all seriousness, young folks are simply comparing their perception of the way things were as adolescents to the way they perceive them ten years later. What is changing in ten years is the individual's perceptions not the societal/sexual paradigms. I was a young guy in the 60-70s. I think y'all need to do a little reading about that era before you declare 2010s to be the decade of sexual revolution and hookup culture. What's actually new? Now you can text; we had to call. I understand what you're saying. The pendulum always swings back. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I wish i knew... All i can say is they force the hookup culture with me. If you show actual interest in a modern single girl, they don't like it. If you keep them at an arm's length and contact them every once in a while, they are far more interested. I'm beginning to think that seems to be the general thinking of men of any generation these days. For me, as a woman, showing no interest is just that, no interest. Next!! I've never been into "hookups", even when I was younger....guess I will be single for a very long time if that is all men on dating sites are looking for. (Not directing that specifically at you LoveWeary, just personal experience of how some men act on dating sites.) The ones that seem nice and actually want a real date...conversation.... tend to be "no shows" for a second date.....or worse, they wind up talking about the ex, other women, other dates....etc. That's definitely a chemistry killer right there. lol!! I just can't see any future coming from a "hookup" or a FWB that hasn't established some sort of mutual care and an emotional connection to benefit the physical. For the OP, never, ever, ever make someone else a priority if they aren't making you one. Maybe the next guy will be better suited, but I wouldn't wait on a man that isn't even participating. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I'm beginning to think that seems to be the general thinking of men of any generation these days. For me, as a woman, showing no interest is just that, no interest. Next!! I've never been into "hookups", even when I was younger....guess I will be single for a very long time if that is all men on dating sites are looking for. (Not directing that specifically at you LoveWeary, just personal experience of how some men act on dating sites.) The ones that seem nice and actually want a real date...conversation.... tend to be "no shows" for a second date.....or worse, they wind up talking about the ex, other women, other dates....etc. That's definitely a chemistry killer right there. lol!! I just can't see any future coming from a "hookup" or a FWB that hasn't established some sort of mutual care and an emotional connection to benefit the physical. For the OP, never, ever, ever make someone else a priority if they aren't making you one. Maybe the next guy will be better suited, but I wouldn't wait on a man that isn't even participating. I feel the same way you do. I must stress this is what girls want, not what I want. Link to post Share on other sites
Brigit_1 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I feel the same way you do. I must stress this is what girls want, not what I want. Awww. The yoga girl might be the one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) The only thing that hasn't changed is that only women can get pregnant and women who sleep around are still looked down upon by society. In a way it's great that girls are now able to express themselves sexually with less restraint. But I can't help but wonder if they are only doing this because they're worried if they don't guys won't like them? I have a feeling that many of these "liberated" women are really just kidding themselves. Yeah, I read this interpretation of the hook up culture and it doesn't click. In my experience women who put out quickly did it cause they wanted me to like them. Same with FWB cause they were looking to lock me down, not "sure I'll fu*k him, no big deal" Just take a look at the FWB forum. Everyday some heart broken girl makes a thread about a guy not wanting to them anymore and everybody tells "he was a friend with benefits, not your BF" Edited July 12, 2015 by jay1983 3 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I think many young people are just still idealistic enough to believe that all roads lead to true romance, whether they be hookup or FWB or whatever. The cold reality just hasn't set in yet that some people are just as content with just sex. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I think many young women are just still idealistic enough to believe that all roads lead to true romance, whether they be hookup or FWB or whatever. The cold reality just hasn't set in yet that some men are just as content with just sex. I changed 2 words so your comment reflects more accurately. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ASG Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I changed 2 words so your comment reflects more accurately. Er.. no. Some PEOPLE want romance and some PEOPLE are ok with just sex. I've read here, time and again, MEN saying they don't understand casual sex and how they could never do it. Not even mentioning the ones I know, personally, in real life. On the other hand, there are plenty of women who are happy with casual sex and are happy with just that. Sure, it might be more prevalent that men are ok with sex, while women want the romance, but it doesn't make it universal. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Brigit_1 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I read this interpretation of the hook up culture and it doesn't click. In my experience women who put out quickly did it cause they wanted me to like them. Same with FWB cause they were looking to lock me down, not "sure I'll fu*k him, no big deal" Just take a look at the FWB forum. Everyday some heart broken girl makes a thread about a guy not wanting to them anymore and everybody tells "he was a friend with benefits, not your BF" I figured as much. If a guy goes home and says "Yo dad I got laid tonight" his father would probably be proud and ask about condom use. Girl goes home and tells dad same story: way different ending. Women are natural "nesters" and are by nature very romantic when it comes to boys. The little girl toys are the same now as when I was a child. Barbie dolls in pink boxes with clothes and long hair. It's hard for me to believe that the 20 something girls have all become insatiable sex maniacs and no longer want love and romance. They might have sex faster but it's probably for all the wrong reasons. Edited July 13, 2015 by Brigit_1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yeah, I read this interpretation of the hook up culture and it doesn't click. In my experience women who put out quickly did it cause they wanted me to like them. Same with FWB cause they were looking to lock me down, not "sure I'll fu*k him, no big deal" Just take a look at the FWB forum. Everyday some heart broken girl makes a thread about a guy not wanting to them anymore and everybody tells "he was a friend with benefits, not your BF" Actually women are told not to put out so the guy will think highly of her and consider her relationship material. These girls could wait but they don't and that's because they are horny for the guy, has sex with him, he doesn't come back, then all of a sudden they feel used. They could have listened to the advice not to put out but most times they don't. They want the sex. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Brigit_1 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Er.. no. Some PEOPLE want romance and some PEOPLE are ok with just sex. I've read here, time and again, MEN saying they don't understand casual sex and how they could never do it. Not even mentioning the ones I know, personally, in real life. On the other hand, there are plenty of women who are happy with casual sex and are happy with just that. Sure, it might be more prevalent that men are ok with sex, while women want the romance, but it doesn't make it universal. But it still goes back to the same issue. Girls get pregnant and boys don't. Also... (and this might be a bit vulgar so just warning you) A guy can stick his d*ck into 100 vagina's and the d*ck will look the same. The vagina that has 100 d*ck's....that thang aint looking so good. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ASG Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Actually women are told not to put out so the guy will think highly of her and consider her relationship material. These girls could wait but they don't and that's because they are horny for the guy, has sex with him, he doesn't come back, then all of a sudden they feel used. They could have listened to the advice not to put out but most times they don't. They want the sex. Exactly. And I have to say, I've done it to guys as well, and I'm sure they felt a bit crappy afterwards, that I just wasn't that into them and didn't want to continue with the sex. It happens both way. And it sucks both ways. Doesn't mean we're not ok with just sex. I've had casual relationships that were great and mutually beneficial, without either side wanting more, that after a while faded on their own, without anyone being hurt. It only sucks when you would have liked to carry on (even if just the sex) and the other person isn't interested. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ASG Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 But it still goes back to the same issue. Girls get pregnant and boys don't. Also... (and this might be a bit vulgar so just warning you) A guy can stick his d*ck into 100 vagina's and the d*ck will look the same. The vagina that has 100 d*ck's....that thang aint looking so good. Er... yeah it will. I can tell you that I've had sex with many many guys. Way above average. And my vagina is pristine! It's awesome! and no different from when I was a virgin. What exactly do you think happens to a vagina that has 100 dicks??? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I figured as much. If a guy goes home and says "Yo dad I got laid tonight" his father would probably be proud and ask about condom use. Girl goes home and tells dad same story: way different ending. . that isn't fair, but the way I look at it is, it shouldn't be cool for boys to do it either. But when women fight it, they don't go hey guys who do this shouldn't be excepted. It's more like, we wanna be just as fu*ked up as men! Women are natural "nesters" and are by nature very romantic when it comes to boys. The little girl toys are the same now as when I was a child. Barbie dolls in pink boxes with clothes and long hair. It's hard for me to believe that the 20 something girls have all become insatiable sex maniacs and no longer want love and romance. They might have sex faster but it's probably for all the wrong reasons. you're right on track, that's exactly what it is. This has been true in my experience. I'll also add that most women seem to prefer a FWB situation with a better looking guy who isn't really interested in them over a guy that might not look as good, but actually digs them. Hence, the hook up culture. Yes, but on subconscious or a semi-subconscious level. Remember a while back, (I don't remember which thread) you said women don't like you to be direct about your intentions? You were right, and that's true cause then they'd have to admit to themselves that you're not interested in anything serious. Conclusion - after putting out too fast and getting burnt a few times, they say they hook up cause they're liberated, cause that's better than admitting the former. Edited July 13, 2015 by jay1983 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Brigit_1 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 And my vagina is pristine! It's awesome! and no different from when I was a virgin. LOL! Well...you know your vagina better than me and if you say you're a replenishing virgin who am I to argue. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
guest569 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) But it still goes back to the same issue. Girls get pregnant and boys don't. Also... (and this might be a bit vulgar so just warning you) A guy can stick his d*ck into 100 vagina's and the d*ck will look the same. The vagina that has 100 d*ck's....that thang aint looking so good. Well there is a great example of how society shame women for engaging in sex, but have no issue when men engage in sex. What an incredibly vulgar and sexist post. P.S. There's a thing now called birth control. Oh, and I went for it cause i wanted to get laid. Simple as that. Shock horror, women like sex too. Edited July 13, 2015 by smiley1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Brigit_1 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 And I have a giant penis. It's awesome! Never seen a woman admit their vagina might be sub-par. LOL! A giant penis can do a lot of damage. You may want to hang a warning sign on that bad boy. Link to post Share on other sites
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