Abusive girlfriend left me. I feel deeply depressed and need !

[aloneinaz]

Idk what to think right now, I'm going to take as long as I need to figure out what is going on. The girl needs help but it's not my job to lead her to a therapist.

 

My last ex of 2 plus years ago demonstrated all the classic BPD symptoms. She knew she had issues but was never FORMALLY diagnosed. After she ended it with me, I spoke to a couple of people who knew behavioral health and shared he behavior. The both suspected she did as well.

 

 

What she's doing is NOT bizarre or odd at all for a BPD person. My ex ended us. I left, got my stuff two days later and VANISHED from her life. I healed, which was HARD as hell, moved on to a mentally healthy woman several months later and life was good.

 

 

My ex did exactly what yours is doing. She first stopped by my house after 6 months of NC. I was napping but heard the bell and figured it was a solicitor. She then sent me a LLONNGG, apologetic text the next night saying our relationship failed due to her issues. I ignored it and my new GF said "it must be nice to be vindicated and she clearly wants you back".. Two weeks later, she sends a LLOONNGG email apologizing all over herself, said she was a terrible GF, didn't appreciate what she had, etc. My GF asked me to reply a couple days later letting her know I was happy w/someone else and good luck. This didn't stop her either. She kept emailing off/on for a few months and was ignored.

 

 

Guess what else? I ran into her ex-husband a week after text. He said she'd just broken up w/another guy and chuckled "at least she waited a week before contacting you"..

 

 

They are classic, manipulative, tree swingers. They can't be alone. They are always un-happy and expect their partners to stimulate it in them. She had done the same before me as well, I just ignored that red flag.

 

 

My friend, she's not going to change. If you give her another chance, she'll be on her best behavior for a few weeks then go right back to her typical personality. You've already survived combat w/her the first time, don't go thru it again.. I know I'd NEEVVEERR date my bat @hit crazy ex again..

[Itspointless]

Idk what to think right now, I'm going to take as long as I need to figure out what is going on. The girl needs help but it's not my job to lead her to a therapist.

I respect her for what she said to you, takes guts!

 

Well, if you decide another try that should be one of the demands: an evaluation with a psychiatrist and therapy, for her and for you both together.

[frigginlost]

My last ex of 2 plus years ago demonstrated all the classic BPD symptoms. She knew she had issues but was never FORMALLY diagnosed. After she ended it with me, I spoke to a couple of people who knew behavioral health and shared he behavior. The both suspected she did as well.

 

If she was not formally diagnosed, than you can't say she was regardless of what someone says. BPD traits are found in all of us and can be misinterpreted.

 

 

What she's doing is NOT bizarre or odd at all for a BPD person. My ex ended us. I left, got my stuff two days later and VANISHED from her life. I healed, which was HARD as hell, moved on to a mentally healthy woman several months later and life was good.

 

Disagree.

 

I was with a BPD and have a very close female friend who is BPD. Both diagnosed, and neither of them displayed/display what the OP's ex has. Not saying it does not happen, but to call it not bizarre is incorrect.

 

My ex did exactly what yours is doing. She first stopped by my house after 6 months of NC. I was napping but heard the bell and figured it was a solicitor. She then sent me a LLONNGG, apologetic text the next night saying our relationship failed due to her issues. I ignored it and my new GF said "it must be nice to be vindicated and she clearly wants you back".. Two weeks later, she sends a LLOONNGG email apologizing all over herself, said she was a terrible GF, didn't appreciate what she had, etc. My GF asked me to reply a couple days later letting her know I was happy w/someone else and good luck. This didn't stop her either. She kept emailing off/on for a few months and was ignored.

 

BPD's Do not (as I have experienced) continue to bother months after the fact. They move on rather quickly, and stay moved on.

 

They are classic, manipulative, tree swingers.

 

Agree, completely.

 

They can't be alone. They are always un-happy and expect their partners to stimulate it in them. She had done the same before me as well, I just ignored that red flag.

 

Disagree. BPD's do not expect that, it triggers their engulfment fears.

 

My friend, she's not going to change. If you give her another chance, she'll be on her best behavior for a few weeks then go right back to her typical personality. You've already survived combat w/her the first time, don't go thru it again.. I know I'd NEEVVEERR date my bat @hit crazy ex again..

 

Disagree.

 

BPD's can and do change with therapy.

Edited July 20, 2015 by frigginlost

[Nolan 93]

A lot of people wish that an ex would return to them, here is your chance if you want her or not.

 

I understand if she treated you poorly and yes sometimes even through that you still deeply care about them. If that is you slowly see where it takes you, if she becomes mean again don't put up with it and immediately end it.

 

If you still reminisce being with her then take a gamble and risk it happening again. I for sure know that I would rather take a risk to see what happens than always wokdering "what if".

 

You have already felt the first heartbreak with her and you seem to have your emotions in check, give it a shot but only if you want too and you set the pace.

[aloneinaz]

If she was not formally diagnosed, than you can't say she was regardless of what someone says. BPD traits are found in all of us and can be misinterpreted.

 

 

 

 

Disagree.

 

I was with a BPD and have a very close female friend who is BPD. Both diagnosed, and neither of them displayed/display what the OP's ex has. Not saying it does not happen, but to call it not bizarre is incorrect.

 

 

 

BPD's Do not (as I have experienced) continue to bother months after the fact. They move on rather quickly, and stay moved on.

 

 

 

Agree, completely.

 

 

 

Disagree. BPD's do not expect that, it triggers their engulfment fears.

 

 

 

Disagree.

 

BPD's can and do change with therapy.

 

 

We can agree on certain points and on others, we don't. When my ex aligned with 90% of the common traits of a BPD person, it helped me make sense of her actions. We'd been to couple therapy with a psychologist. I saw her after the break up and she too felt she was probably a BPD person.

 

 

I hope you're right that people can get better with therapy to treat their BPD or whatever causes their chaotic behavior. After getting a better understanding of this condition and others similar to it, the take home value was; I went from being very angry (mainly at myself for putting up with her) to a deep sense of sadness for her and hoped she'd get back to therapy to address her issues. Despite how horrible she was to me, I still hope she finds happiness in her life for her kids sake. I'll also give her credit for taking full responsibility for her actions while apologizing all over herself.

 

 

Everyone deserves to be happy in their lives, including our exes.

[frigginlost]

We can agree on certain points and on others, we don't. When my ex aligned with 90% of the common traits of a BPD person, it helped me make sense of her actions. We'd been to couple therapy with a psychologist. I saw her after the break up and she too felt she was probably a BPD person.

 

 

I hope you're right that people can get better with therapy to treat their BPD or whatever causes their chaotic behavior. After getting a better understanding of this condition and others similar to it, the take home value was; I went from being very angry (mainly at myself for putting up with her) to a deep sense of sadness for her and hoped she'd get back to therapy to address her issues. Despite how horrible she was to me, I still hope she finds happiness in her life for her kids sake. I'll also give her credit for taking full responsibility for her actions while apologizing all over herself.

 

 

Everyone deserves to be happy in their lives, including our exes.

 

Awesome stuff, there. I agree completely. I'm still trying to unwind my head from the ex with BPD. It is not easy at all. Like you said, they are master manipulators and extremely adept at gleening info off an honest person for the purpose of manipulation. It's frickin' rough.

 

If the OP is indeed dealing with a BPD person, it is nearly impossible to have a nurturing relationship.

[ahall1701]

She called twice today. I didn't answer or call back. I'm just not totally sure what to do.

[Simon Phoenix]

She called twice today. I didn't answer or call back. I'm just not totally sure what to do.

 

Her pressuring you isn't a great sign. I'd find it a bit more genuine if she let you think about it, but the full-court press thing isn't cool IMO.

[ravfour4]

My ex came back to me after her mom bitched at her for seeing a married man, after that man turned down her invitation to go to an outdoor spot saying "no, I don't want to do that, that's you're thing" and after her and I had recently had a fun day together. He was also about to leave his wife's house to get his own apartment and she thought he was doing it solely for her and couldn't handle the pressure.

 

She made a rash decision just like she has consistently done over the past few months and came back. After he still moved out, she went back to him. Then dumped him a week later and for all I know she's back with him again.

 

BPD women are crazy and follow their emotions regardless of where they take them and without thinking of the long term consequences. What you're getting seems to be a much more sincere attempt, but if she's truly BPD, it's just because of her primal fear of being alone. Perhaps she did have someone lined up that just didn't work out and after everyone calling her behavior "whore" like, she wants to come back to the only one that won't leave her - you.

[aloneinaz]

She called twice today. I didn't answer or call back. I'm just not totally sure what to do.

 

 

 

Let's stop all our amateur labeling of her potential behavioral health issues and stick to the facts-

 

 

* She treated you how during your time with her?

* Where you gloriously happy in that relationship?

* Would you REALLY want to be w/someone long term like this?

** Most important.. People don't generally change much. What you see is what you get. People are typically on their best behavior during the first few months of a relationship. Then, they relax, get comfortable and let their hair down. What did you get with her at that stage?

 

 

You have two choices-

 

 

1) Continue on your path to healing from this failed relationship and move onto in all likelihood a better, more stable relationship.

 

 

2) Recycle that failed relationship and give her another chance and risk more drama, dysfunction, chaos and misery..

 

 

It's true that coming out of an abusive relationship can cause similar symptoms to post traumatic stress disorder. Don't lose sight of that.

[54JA]

(Text she sent after she hung up on me)

 

Text Message: This is complete ****ing BULL****. You have literally screwed me over in the worst ****ing way possible. This was my dream, my one ****ing dream and you have ruined it. You RUINED my one dream. You lied to my ****ing face because u can't man up and quit a dumb ****ty job that you don't even like. **** your pride. I could probably pay for all of your **** and still u wouldn't go to Europe, with your girlfriend. That's pretty ****ing messed up. Every ****ing day I have dreamed of going, with u, and you have crushed that. Every day I wished and hoped u would be excited that u would even talk about it. But u don't. Ur own family doesn't even know u "decided" to go. Guess I was the only obvious one. Thanks for ruining my whole day, week, year, life. And that's all on you. I could have found someone else could have planned things different but it's too late now cause u don't have the balls. I have never been so ****ing heart broken in my whole ****ing life. **** you seriously. You have screwed over my one dream. My one dream is gone. Thank you.

 

:End Text

 

Based on your descriptions of your relationship from your previous thread, and this text in particular, I think your ex will benefit from being alone. She sounds like she needs to really go "find herself (I know, please don't laugh)" for real. When I say "find herself," I don't mean date around/hook up, etc (like someone we read about). I mean find her emotional independence. Her logic of you ruining her dream of going to Europe suggests her happiness is VERY dependent on others. Yes, we all depend on each other to some extent, but the notion that one can ruin her life long dream by the mere act of "not joining her" is ridiculous and suggests a need for some serious soul searching. (Her sense of identify appears to be weak, like that of a teenager. If it was solid enough, she would not have allowed the peer pressure from her church friends to impact her relationship with you).

 

She also lacks patience and consideration (obviously). Truly loving someone involves considering the needs other than one's own (to an extent, of course) and being patient. Despite her recent gestures, I don't think she understands this yet. She keeps texting you, probably in her attempt to get you to make her feel better because she can't stand the uncertainty. She can't take the pain, even though it's temporary. If she is truly ready to start considering your needs, why did she pick the most inconvenient time to talk about reconciliation, showing up at your work like that (ER! of all places).

 

I know I just pointed out the obvious, but I honestly don't think 17 days (or however long your NC was) was enough for her to change. It's gonna take a lot more than 17 days for her to "find herself" and learn to love herself. More importantly, I don't think she can do that while she's in a relationship. This is probably something she needs to do on her own.

[Downtown]

If she does indeed have BPD (confirmed!) then I would think that you have some serious, serious, thinking to do.

Friggin, my view is that Ahall has some serious thinking to do even if his exGF's BPD traits are not "confirmed," as you say. For the purpose of deciding whether to reconcile with a woman he's dated for a year and a half, having a formal diagnosis is unlikely to be of much value to Ahall. That is, it doesn't really matter -- if he has been seeing strong BPD traits for over a year -- whether a therapist determines she satisfies 80% of the diagnostic criteria (thus, "not having BPD") or 100% of those criteria (thus, "having BPD"). A person meeting 80% of the criteria likely will be nearly as impossible to live with as one meeting 100%.

 

I'm not sure your ex is BPD.

BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is something every adult has to some degree. Moreover, at different stages of life, each person's position on that BPD spectrum likely will change greatly. During early childhood, for example, we all behave like full-blown BPDers on a 24/7 basis -- and many of us repeat this behavior for several years during our early teens. This is why the American psychiatric community is in the process of replacing its current dichotomous diagnostic methodology (i.e., "having" or "not having" BPD) with a graduated approach (e.g., normal, moderate, strong, or severe).

 

Hence, until that new methodology is implemented, being told that your exGF "doesn't have BPD" would NOT mean you are safe to reconcile with her. That diagnosis only means that she doesn't have "full-blown BPD." It doesn't tell you a thing about whether she has perhaps 80% or 90% of the traits. The existing diagnostic procedure, then, is as silly as declaring everyone over 6'4" to be "tall" and everyone else to be "short" -- or declaring everyone over 280 pounds to be "fat" and everyone else to be "skinny."

 

I was with a BPD and have a very close female friend who is BPD. Both diagnosed, and neither of them displayed/display what the OP's ex has.... BPD's Do not (as I have experienced) continue to bother months after the fact. They move on rather quickly, and stay moved on.

Like the experience of AloneInAz, my experience with BPDers has been different than yours. As AloneInAz observed, BPDers HATE to be alone. Moreover, they are unstable and thus often will reverse course by 180 degrees. It therefore is common for a BPDer, fearing abandonment by her partner, to quickly leave for a R/S with another man. Then, because she cannot trust him either, she may start triangulating, i.e., playing the two men off one another by sometimes favoring one and then -- months later -- favoring the other. Or, finding herself rejected by the other man, she may start love bombing the initial partner in an effort to reconcile.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, was so frightened I was going to abandon her (after 15 years of marriage) that she had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing her." That gave her an opportunity to obtain a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for the 18 months it takes to get a D in this State. Throughout the D process, however, she called me every week or two and met with me at various locations around town.

 

At the D hearing, she claimed that she really did not want the D when the judge asked her. The judge just rolled her eyes and granted the D anyway. In the 8 years following the D, she has called me many times wanting to reconcile. I'm quite sure she would marry me again if I wanted to.

 

BPD's can and do change with therapy.

I agree with AloneInAz that Ahall has very little chance of seeing a substantial improvement if his exGF has strong BPD traits. Granted, you are correct that there are excellent therapy programs available in most major cities and some BPDers do take advantage of them. But, sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to stay in therapy long enought (several years at least) to make a real difference.

 

Moreover, even when you insist on their staying in therapy, it won't make any difference if they are not strongly motivated and highly self aware. My exW, for example, saw six different psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years -- at enormous expense to me. It did not even make a dent in her behavior.

 

And, granted, there are a few recent studies showing that BPDers tend to mellow a bit starting in the late 40's or in the 50's. Unfortunately, none of the researchers have quantified the actual extent of that "mellowing." They only claim that a substantial share of BPDers no longer "have BPD" in their old age. Yet, as I noted above, a BPDer whose behavior improves to where it satisfies only 80% of the diagnostic criteria is said to "not have BPD." Such a person, however, likely would be nearly as difficult to live with as a person satisfying 100%.

[ahall1701]

Thank you all for your continued support. I wish this was easier. I though I was really moving past this then BANG, she's back. Now all of those feeling of affection and love are getting mixed into my logical thinking. I need time to process all of these feelings. I told her that I needed time. She said all she could think about in europe was me. If that's the case then why go without me? Pride?

[ravfour4]

I think most "professional" diagnosers would ask the gf similar questions to what Downtown is asking/pointing out, it's just a series of observed behaviors that make up most of these disorders and I don't think your average person thinks in white and black and is so inept at explaining their feelings - therefore, at a minimum something is off.

 

At OP, I think the main thing you need to know is that she will likely go through this crazy up/down cycle again unless you can be "perfect" going forward. She won't be forgiving like you want to be and chances are higher that she'll do this again than she won't. If you really love her and feel like you have a better understanding of what triggers her and what bothered her, then you could give it a try, but you'd have to be willing to break it off if she starts doing this again. That's the hard part.

[aloneinaz]

Friggin, my view is that Ahall has some serious thinking to do even if his exGF's BPD traits are not "confirmed," as you say. For the purpose of deciding whether to reconcile with a woman he's dated for a year and a half, having a formal diagnosis is unlikely to be of much value to Ahall. That is, it doesn't really matter -- if he has been seeing strong BPD traits for over a year -- whether a therapist determines she satisfies 80% of the diagnostic criteria (thus, "not having BPD") or 100% of those criteria (thus, "having BPD"). A person meeting 80% of the criteria likely will be nearly as impossible to live with as one meeting 100%.

 

BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is something every adult has to some degree. Moreover, at different stages of life, each person's position on that BPD spectrum likely will change greatly. During early childhood, for example, we all behave like full-blown BPDers on a 24/7 basis -- and many of us repeat this behavior for several years during our early teens. This is why the American psychiatric community is in the process of replacing its current dichotomous diagnostic methodology (i.e., "having" or "not having" BPD) with a graduated approach (e.g., normal, moderate, strong, or severe).

 

Hence, until that new methodology is implemented, being told that your exGF "doesn't have BPD" would NOT mean you are safe to reconcile with her. That diagnosis only means that she doesn't have "full-blown BPD." It doesn't tell you a thing about whether she has perhaps 80% or 90% of the traits. The existing diagnostic procedure, then, is as silly as declaring everyone over 6'4" to be "tall" and everyone else to be "short" -- or declaring everyone over 280 pounds to be "fat" and everyone else to be "skinny."

 

Like the experience of AloneInAz, my experience with BPDers has been different than yours. As AloneInAz observed, BPDers HATE to be alone. Moreover, they are unstable and thus often will reverse course by 180 degrees. It therefore is common for a BPDer, fearing abandonment by her partner, to quickly leave for a R/S with another man. Then, because she cannot trust him either, she may start triangulating, i.e., playing the two men off one another by sometimes favoring one and then -- months later -- favoring the other. Or, finding herself rejected by the other man, she may start love bombing the initial partner in an effort to reconcile.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, was so frightened I was going to abandon her (after 15 years of marriage) that she had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing her." That gave her an opportunity to obtain a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for the 18 months it takes to get a D in this State. Throughout the D process, however, she called me every week or two and met with me at various locations around town.

 

At the D hearing, she claimed that she really did not want the D when the judge asked her. The judge just rolled her eyes and granted the D anyway. In the 8 years following the D, she has called me many times wanting to reconcile. I'm quite sure she would marry me again if I wanted to.

 

I agree with AloneInAz that Ahall has very little chance of seeing a substantial improvement if his exGF has strong BPD traits. Granted, you are correct that there are excellent therapy programs available in most major cities and some BPDers do take advantage of them. But, sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to stay in therapy long enought (several years at least) to make a real difference.

 

Moreover, even when you insist on their staying in therapy, it won't make any difference if they are not strongly motivated and highly self aware. My exW, for example, saw six different psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years -- at enormous expense to me. It did not even make a dent in her behavior.

 

And, granted, there are a few recent studies showing that BPDers tend to mellow a bit starting in the late 40's or in the 50's. Unfortunately, none of the researchers have quantified the actual extent of that "mellowing." They only claim that a substantial share of BPDers no longer "have BPD" in their old age. Yet, as I noted above, a BPDer whose behavior improves to where it satisfies only 80% of the diagnostic criteria is said to "not have BPD." Such a person, however, likely would be nearly as difficult to live with as a person satisfying 100%.

 

 

Boy.. you clearly know the BPD woman. I hope you've healed from those 15 years. My time was "only" about the same as the OP (1.5 years).

 

 

This ex of mine had also been in therapy off/on for a number of years. She would never stay in it long enough to make any progress. Also, one thing not mentioned is how fast a BPD person can swing from idealization where you're on this huge pedestal to them loathing you in a very short time period. They experience rapid mood changes.

 

 

Her sister I think felt sorry for the hell she put me through. She told me one time during a break up that this was her typical behavior in relationships. For the first few months, the person was "perfect" only to turn quickly at looking for and finding fault in the person until she dumped them. She had a huge fear of abandonment as well and told me that many times. She'd often dump guys because she "thought" they were going to abandon her. After dumping someone, she'd be right back on the dating sites within days, looking for someone else. She admitted she couldn't be alone in her own thoughts and life.

 

 

I also didn't agree with the statement that BPD folks don't return to previous R/S. It is common and is stated on BPD sites. As I mentioned, she reappeared 5-6 months after she ended us. Funny, her rebound failed and a week later, she was knocking on my door despite not hearing one word from me after she ended us. Pretty ballsy.

 

 

OP, spend some time googling BPD women. There's lots of good information out there. It's hard to break away from these folks too, so don't lose your momentum if you can help it.

Edited July 21, 2015 by aloneinaz

[TaraMaiden2]

Thank you all for your continued support. I wish this was easier. I though I was really moving past this then BANG, she's back. Now all of those feeling of affection and love are getting mixed into my logical thinking. I need time to process all of these feelings. I told her that I needed time. She said all she could think about in europe was me. If that's the case then why go without me? Pride?

 

 

Well, once there, it's kinda difficult to back out....

 

She obviously did the right thing for her at that moment.

We all have things we do which 'seemed right at the time' and end up being a complete custard pie....

 

Hindsight is, as they say, 20/20 vision...

[mtnbiker3000]

^^^ Agreed. It took me a while to realize that my ex was not an evil or 'diagnosed', this or that. I now know that she just did what she did. It was what she needed to do. Nothing more, nothing less...

 

Not saying this is the case for the OP, but this is quite common, and OP will most likely realize, and "understand' much more as time goes by...

Edited July 21, 2015 by mtnbiker3000

[ahall1701]

Part of me is still so angry with her. The fact that I was replaced by her friend to go on a trip we planned for a really long time and now that she's back and wants to make up really grinds my gears... She said she saw the sites but it was a big let down and without me there it wasn't fun. Her behavior toward me before the end still hurts, bad. How can someone expect to walk back into someone's life after they did such things. Idk. Now I'm having this flood of emotions and Idk what the hell is going on. She said she was sorry and that she wants to work everyday to regain my trust. I just don't know if it's possible. I feel like I'm just too hurt, too angry. I want to let go of this pain. I want to feel happy again. I know I'll be fine in my own. I know I don't need her to be a happy person. However, I still love her and want her. I'm just very conflicted at this point. But thank you all for you help. It's just amazing what you guys do

[anna121]

I am a little surprised at the advice you are getting to think about giving her a chance. TBH, I am kind of shocked. I guess I am pretty jaded but I am not terribly impressed by her actions. Coming to your work is a serious breach of your boundaries. And her continued contact with you is troubling. Basically, it all screams "ME, ME, ME".

 

My advice is to maintain no or extremely low contact for a set period of time - at least a few months. See if she takes steps to get intensive therapy, because that is what she will need. A person does not just exhibit the extreme behaviours that she did in an on/off fashion. There is some deep-seated screwed-up-ness that needs to be addressed in a serious, serious manner. BY HER. And NOT with the goal of getting you back, but with the goal of becoming a better-adjusted person in the world.

 

Good luck and I hope you can stay strong in the face of what is obviously (and in my mind, though I could be wrong, quite calculated) manipulation from someone you obviously still care deeply for.

[frigginlost]

Friggin, my view is that Ahall has some serious thinking to do even if his exGF's BPD traits are not "confirmed," as you say. For the purpose of deciding whether to reconcile with a woman he's dated for a year and a half, having a formal diagnosis is unlikely to be of much value to Ahall. That is, it doesn't really matter -- if he has been seeing strong BPD traits for over a year -- whether a therapist determines she satisfies 80% of the diagnostic criteria (thus, "not having BPD") or 100% of those criteria (thus, "having BPD"). A person meeting 80% of the criteria likely will be nearly as impossible to live with as one meeting 100%.

 

BPD is thrown around on these boards a ton as a reason on why an ex left. While I agree with what you say, I think it's important to not throw gasoline on a fire that does not exist, which is why I talk of "confirmed" BPD (others read these threads looking for reasons and it's too easy to label an ex as a "nutcase" etc. While it's true we all look for reasons on why we were left, sometimes there really is not a concrete single reason. Things just didn't work out.

 

BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is something every adult has to some degree. Moreover, at different stages of life, each person's position on that BPD spectrum likely will change greatly. During early childhood, for example, we all behave like full-blown BPDers on a 24/7 basis -- and many of us repeat this behavior for several years during our early teens. This is why the American psychiatric community is in the process of replacing its current dichotomous diagnostic methodology (i.e., "having" or "not having" BPD) with a graduated approach (e.g., normal, moderate, strong, or severe).

 

I understand that completely, which is why I stated that we all have BPD traits. I just did not word it as eloquently as you.

 

Hence, until that new methodology is implemented, being told that your exGF "doesn't have BPD" would NOT mean you are safe to reconcile with her. That diagnosis only means that she doesn't have "full-blown BPD." It doesn't tell you a thing about whether she has perhaps 80% or 90% of the traits. The existing diagnostic procedure, then, is as silly as declaring everyone over 6'4" to be "tall" and everyone else to be "short" -- or declaring everyone over 280 pounds to be "fat" and everyone else to be "skinny."

 

I agree, which is why I opined that the OP should take things very slowly if he decided to see how things play out.

 

Like the experience of AloneInAz, my experience with BPDers has been different than yours. As AloneInAz observed, BPDers HATE to be alone. Moreover, they are unstable and thus often will reverse course by 180 degrees. It therefore is common for a BPDer, fearing abandonment by her partner, to quickly leave for a R/S with another man. Then, because she cannot trust him either, she may start triangulating, i.e., playing the two men off one another by sometimes favoring one and then -- months later -- favoring the other. Or, finding herself rejected by the other man, she may start love bombing the initial partner in an effort to reconcile.

 

Thank you. This is absolutely fascinating to me. My ex did in fact start to triangulate but I did not wait around for any love bombing and it never happened. The friend I speak of with BPD has never shown any triangulation or love bombing and I have known her for 15 years. She simply would straddle the engulfment and abandonment slide until her abandonment fear would take over and bolt. She never returned to an ex. I always thought "ex-recyling" was a symptom of something else.

 

[My BPDer exW, for example, was so frightened I was going to abandon her (after 15 years of marriage) that she had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing her." That gave her an opportunity to obtain a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for the 18 months it takes to get a D in this State. Throughout the D process, however, she called me every week or two and met with me at various locations around town.

 

Wow. I am sorry you had to go through that.

 

At the D hearing, she claimed that she really did not want the D when the judge asked her. The judge just rolled her eyes and granted the D anyway. In the 8 years following the D, she has called me many times wanting to reconcile. I'm quite sure she would marry me again if I wanted to.

 

Downtown, I have always considered you to be the go-to guy regarding BPD. Your insight and understanding of it is just fantastic. I have never seen in either cases of the BPD's I know, those actions. Thank you.

 

I agree with AloneInAz that Ahall has very little chance of seeing a substantial improvement if his exGF has strong BPD traits. Granted, you are correct that there are excellent therapy programs available in most major cities and some BPDers do take advantage of them. But, sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to stay in therapy long enought (several years at least) to make a real difference.

 

Moreover, even when you insist on their staying in therapy, it won't make any difference if they are not strongly motivated and highly self aware. My exW, for example, saw six different psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years -- at enormous expense to me. It did not even make a dent in her behavior.

 

Yes! It does not happen over night. My ex tried therapy, but just played head games with the therapist. Master in manipulation she is. The friend I speak of was in therapy for four years. She fully understands her feelings and actions and has for all intents and purposes "grown up".

 

And, granted, there are a few recent studies showing that BPDers tend to mellow a bit starting in the late 40's or in the 50's. Unfortunately, none of the researchers have quantified the actual extent of that "mellowing." They only claim that a substantial share of BPDers no longer "have BPD" in their old age. Yet, as I noted above, a BPDer whose behavior improves to where it satisfies only 80% of the diagnostic criteria is said to "not have BPD." Such a person, however, likely would be nearly as difficult to live with as a person satisfying 100%.

 

Interesting. Personally I don't believe that you cannot "have BPD" or be cured of it. I believe that the person learns how to deal with it, and understand it, but truly is never without their "normal" reactions they always have at the surface. It's how they process them before acting on them...

 

Case in point -- The friend I speak of still has major feelings of abandonment but eases these feelings by the use of feeling love. Not from her boyfriend (they have been happily together now going on three years) but from her puppy. She knows that the engulfment trigger will happen if her boyfriend tries to "sooth" her abandonment issue, so she refocuses.

 

Again, Downtown, thank you for being a part of these forums. Your participation is one of the reasons on why these boards are fantastic!

[ahall1701]

I also didn't mention that the church friend she went with was a 40 some year old guy. I know this guy. He's a total weirdo. He's the one who said he was attracted to her. She said he's just a friend. She shut him down several times when we were together. She pleaded with me that nothing happened. Apparently no one else could go because no one else had money amd she was afraid to go alone. It makes me super angry. I mean how dumb can you be. Obviously this guy is attracted to her. **** that guy. Man. And how could she think I'd be ok with that?! Then come crawling back to me?!

[ravfour4]

Ahall, I think she went there with that guy thinking it'd be great fun only to realize that he was a loser or that you were much better and that's why she's acting the way she is. Both of my ex's did essentially the same thing, went to some other guy who was showing them more love (since before both break ups I was thinking of breaking up with them as they were being distant, annoying and cold and I was done putting up with it), then they realize that dude is a chump and it was just a rebound and they want to come back because they're scared of being all alone. I think I've had a "do whatever it takes to make it work" mentality and an overly loyal, I end up staying in relationships too long when the other person is no longer trying and end up getting dumped myself. I will be the dumper next time!!

[ahall1701]

Ahall, I think she went there with that guy thinking it'd be great fun only to realize that he was a loser or that you were much better and that's why she's acting the way she is. Both of my ex's did essentially the same thing, went to some other guy who was showing them more love (since before both break ups I was thinking of breaking up with them as they were being distant, annoying and cold and I was done putting up with it), then they realize that dude is a chump and it was just a rebound and they want to come back because they're scared of being all alone. I think I've had a "do whatever it takes to make it work" mentality and an overly loyal, I end up staying in relationships too long when the other person is no longer trying and end up getting dumped myself. I will be the dumper next time!!

 

 

The worst part is that she didn't see anything wrong with going with her guy friend. Of course I'd be ok with you going with a older man who admitted to you he had an attraction to you. Sure, he installs windows for a living. He seems like a real winner. Dude is beyond strange. He's very short and has a drinking problem. She is so naive with her thinking. It's mind boggling. This guy only drinks, that's all I've ever seen him do. I'm so ANGRY and I am trying to keep a level head. Basically I feel replaced for a pile of **** regarding that trip. Am I right thinking that it bothers me the way it does?

[ahall1701]

Some of you mentioned wanted to keep updated. Here's my latest post.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/538945-ex-wants-get-back-together-after-returning-europe

[SpokenFor]

You are perfectly correct in being pissed off!

 

Thing is, you should now have some clarity on a couple things:

1) There are a lot of things you like and love about her

2) There are absolute killer flaws that mean you cannot have a healthy relationship with her unless she wants to fix them

3) She has to fix them herself, for herself

4) If she did fix them and you could believe her, you'd want to re-engage

5) In the meantime, you need to move on with your life. You yourself will be working towards your own happiness regardless of what she does.

 

I wouldn't waste much time stewing over drunk dwarven window installers -- just lump all that into the category of "flaws she has to fix to move forward", and not even a significant entry in that category.

 

To be very, very clear: I am in no way convinced she really recognizes her problems, or if she wants to fix her problems, or if she can. I will say that I believe people can conquer and control their negative aspects -- have seen it done. Have also seen folks fail.

 

You are handling this great -- if the points above make sense I think you could express them to her. It could be illuminating to see her response.