Did I deserve so much punishment?

[Friskyone4u]

Remorseful,

 

I think you are in UK. There is a PHD author in US, Dr. Barry McCarthy, who has written some well read books on sexuality and infidelity. In one of them he states that the most DIFFICULT type affair to recover from and the type with the LEAST odds of the marriage surviving is what he calls " a WW comparison affair".

 

You letter detailed exactly that and it appears that this was exactly the type affair you were in. You might want to read some his writings to help you understand.

[remorseful_tab]

I get all the anger I am getting on my last post. I understand it seems self centered and selfish.

 

But trust me, I really made my H my priority these last 8 years (barring the 3 months of the "fog" post DDay). As I said, I did IC. I told him what was discussed. I apologized even when he lashed out. I asked him to go to MC. He wouldn't. I took responsibility for the affair (its one of the reason I was scared to have another child fearing it might strain my relationship with H again). I was always open and honest with him. I answered any questions he had asked, Had he mentioned the letter then, I would have addressed it too. He did npt initiate sex much so I always made it my responsibilty to do so.

 

Doesn't these mean anything?

 

I know it was my affair that killed his love for. But it still hurts when he has left me like this when I am still in love with him.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

I believe I read all of the op's posts. I didn't see much about refalling in love with him all over again & vise versa. Just being together is not the same as being in love. Did you really love your husband or just do everything you could think of to keep him with you? I get the feeling you guys acted like a typical couple with a kid, not as a new relationship, as it kinda should have been. Hopefully I wont get modded, but honestly you sound a bit selfish. It seems all about you & your son.

 

 

I think it was a mistake to not go with his family. If you really want him in your life & he decides to change his mind, your best hope is to show him total loyalty. Put his son & family above you & yours. Follow the other posters advice of spending a whole year without spending any time with another guy. Be a super mom. Make his life as a now single father as easy as possible, even if he decides to whore around. Your angry reaction to his call was a big mistake. If he lashes out at you or baits you, bite your tongue, quietly apologize & tell him that you hope someday he can forgive you. Send him sincere stuff on anniversary dates & stuff like his birthday & fathers day. Be involved with his family as much as possible. Your son is their grandchild. Remind him that all you want you want is to be the best mom you can to his son & you only want him in your life. Don't fight the divorce. Who knows, he might get burned a few times & realize that he misses his family. If he finds someone serious, then you should move on.

[World's.Edge]

How can he easily throw away our family? How can he so easily throw away our 15 yrs together?

I'm sure that none of this as well as the past years have been "easy" for him. Not saying this to attack you, but his actions now are a consequence of your choices then, that's just the reality of it.

 

You haven't experienced infidelity so you have no idea what it does to someone and how it affects them.

 

Why wouldn't he give me warning that he was struggling? Why wouldn't he give me a chance to address his issues? If he told me that he was having trouble I would have went above and beyond to make him feel secure.

 

Maybe he tried live with what happened but couldn't any longer. It could also be that he wasn't acutely aware he felt this way, perhaps he didn't know how to tell you or just didn't want to.

 

Your reassurance probably wouldn't have meant anything to him. Infidelity affects how someone sees and feels about you.

 

There is possibly nothing that you could have done. The outcome now having been almost always the end result.

 

Some people just can't accept and move past adultery. Maybe it's taken him all this time to realize that. It's not uncommon, there are instances where it's taken decades for someone to leave after their spouse's affair.

 

Infidelity tends to end relationships, it's not always immediate but inevitable.

[SoulStorm]

I get all the anger I am getting on my last post. I understand it seems self centered and selfish.

 

But trust me, I really made my H my priority these last 8 years (barring the 3 months of the "fog" post DDay). As I said, I did IC. I told him what was discussed. I apologized even when he lashed out. I asked him to go to MC. He wouldn't. I took responsibility for the affair (its one of the reason I was scared to have another child fearing it might strain my relationship with H again). I was always open and honest with him. I answered any questions he had asked, Had he mentioned the letter then, I would have addressed it too. He did npt initiate sex much so I always made it my responsibilty to do so.

 

Doesn't these mean anything?

 

I know it was my affair that killed his love for. But it still hurts when he has left me like this when I am still in love with him.

 

 

Of course they mean something. They mean you were trying. He saw you were trying and that could be why he stayed so long. The infidelity and the letter that made him probably feel inadequate were just a deal breaker for him. He probably will never believe you are in love with him.

[remorseful_tab]

I forgot to mention this in my last post: He has blocked me in FB and LinkenIn

[SoulStorm]

I forgot to mention this in my last post: He has blocked me in FB and LinkenIn

 

Pretty much those are " nails in the coffin" statements. He is moving on. I am really sorry he didn't choose to stick it out all the way through.

[Friskyone4u]

Remorseful,

 

If he just told you he wanted a divorce and he is going away for week end, i would just "tread water" here for a little bit. he could come back from Amsterdam and change his mind since no one, including you really knows yet what prompted this SUDDEN decision.

 

I would not put too much credence in the FB and social media blocking. he just told you he wanted a divorce so why would he want to be reading multiple messages from you right now. That can be undone in 30 seconds if he chooses to.

 

You also got some good advice about if he files and divorces you giving it some time before jumping in to a relationship with another man. of course, you have the right to do that, but if you immediately start with another man that will ceetainly cement in his mind that he made the right decision. There is no guarantee that if you do not date for a while that the outcome will be different but if you still want to see what happens i would hold off on the social life.

[elaine567]

Make his life as a now single father as easy as possible, even if he decides to whore around.

OK, and how do you suggest she gets over his "whoring around"?

How do you suggest she copes with that day to day, week to week?

She is NOT going to cope well with that, who could?

No-one should put themselves in the position you are suggesting.

 

She has already spent 8 years prostrate before him to no avail, another year of fawning to a hostile man, is a complete waste of her time and could even be highly damaging to her sense of self worth.

 

I guess he ain't coming back, she needs to work from that perspective, communicate as a parent only, heal and move on.

[turnera]

OK, and how do you suggest she gets over his "whoring around"?

How do you suggest she copes with that day to day, week to week?

I guess the same way her husband did.

 

Maybe this will help her understand what he's been going through, and help her improve herself.

[merrmeade]

I get all the anger I am getting on my last post. I understand it seems self centered and selfish.

 

But trust me, I really made my H my priority these last 8 years (barring the 3 months of the "fog" post DDay). As I said, I did IC. I told him what was discussed. I apologized even when he lashed out. I asked him to go to MC. He wouldn't. I took responsibility for the affair (its one of the reason I was scared to have another child fearing it might strain my relationship with H again). I was always open and honest with him. I answered any questions he had asked, Had he mentioned the letter then, I would have addressed it too. He did npt initiate sex much so I always made it my responsibilty to do so.

 

Doesn't these mean anything?

 

I know it was my affair that killed his love for. But it still hurts when he has left me like this when I am still in love with him.

It does sound like you tried to give what he needed. That you did IC is exemplary. That he didn't is perplexing. Why? That he wouldn't do MC even more so. Why? You imply he initiated sex more before he found out about the affair. Initiating 3.8 times per year average does sound like he's holding back. But why?

 

Also I generally never believe anyone who tells me how they were with someone else. It's a subjective perception and may be completely inaccurate. Also, it leaves out the other half of the interaction—the other person's perception of what you said and did. This is why we should do counseling. I know this first-hand and find it corroborated on LS. As a BS, it's essential to me to SEE that he feels my pain (aka empathy). Now it doesn't get more subjective than that. But he THINKS he's done that by apologizing, so if he tells someone else that he's done everything I need he will be completely believable. This is why we should do counseling.

 

The fact that YOU are the one initiating the reconciliation and even MC is the most telling. The fact that he resists but still stayed (a while) suggests that he thinks he tried as long as he could. It's not surprising it didn't work since he didn't get any help. It sounds like he never moved beyond the initial hurt and trauma. He held the evidence close and ruminated; that much is clear.

 

I did that, too, and hated my life. I had to do something because HE WASN'T HELPING ME HEAL. Reconciliation can't happen until that happens - healing the deep wounds and trauma of the BS. Have you ever read Mrs. John Adams' posts on LS? That's the behavior of a WS able to see, understand and respond to her spouse's injury caused by her cheating behavior. She not only does everything right, she has accepted as her accountability that she must be vigilant and responsive to his needs and issues caused by her affair for as long as she lives.

 

We all do that ruminating, holding evidence close when we don't get what we need from the WS. I can't tell you what that was in your case, but your BH didn't get it obviously - what he needed. I don't doubt that you feel you tried. Maybe, like my WH, you think that staying together, not complaining, being cheery, meeting needs (that you're aware of) is reconciliation. Clearly you do actually. Making him "a priority" you call it. But maybe, like me, your BH felt so hopeless that he stopped trying to explain what you're not giving him that he really needed to open up and trust you again, and maybe he doesn't know. Maybe he never tried. But the fact is he didn't get it and you didn't figure out what it was (is). My WH, like you, truly believes he's done so much. He feels he's suffered feeling shame and remorse, and it's been painful. He doesn't think about it on his own, like other bad things that have happened to him.

 

In my case, I didn't divorce when I saw that he wasn't up to helping me heal from the damage of his cheating. I did give up that I would get the help I NEEDED, however, and finally said f-ck this, I'm getting out of this state with or without you and went to IC - alone. He stopped MC because he's a cheapskate (proving once more I wasn't important enough?). We're going a route different from yours. What's important to me - and ALL that's important - is that I'm stronger now. A good result of that is that am able and willing to help him. I don't resent that he doesn't get it or appreciate what this means. I see glimmers of hope and am okay with it.

 

So that's what I think. Whatever it was (is) that YOUR BH needed to HEAL himself from the injuries you caused, he didn't get. I can't tell you what that was, and I'm sorry because I think you're sincere.

Edited July 18, 2015 by merrmeade

[sandylee1]

I get all the anger I am getting on my last post. I understand it seems self centered and selfish.

 

But trust me, I really made my H my priority these last 8 years (barring the 3 months of the "fog" post DDay). As I said, I did IC. I told him what was discussed. I apologized even when he lashed out. I asked him to go to MC. He wouldn't. I took responsibility for the affair (its one of the reason I was scared to have another child fearing it might strain my relationship with H again). I was always open and honest with him. I answered any questions he had asked, Had he mentioned the letter then, I would have addressed it too. He did npt initiate sex much so I always made it my responsibilty to do so.

 

Doesn't these mean anything?

 

I know it was my affair that killed his love for. But it still hurts when he has left me like this when I am still in love with him.

 

 

As much as you tried he couldn't get passed it. If you really gave it your best, then there's nothing more you could do. I understand you're hurt, but that doesn't make your H a bad person.

 

What explanation could you really have given him for that letter?

 

Whilst you say you made him a priority apart from the three months it was just more than he could handle.

 

I don't think he stabbed you in the back. He blindsided you with leaving and I'm sure that was intentional, but it's nothing compared to the shock he must have had from discovering your affair.

 

No need to wait around for him, just grieve the end of the marriage move on with your life.

 

There's no fixed time line on getting over it. He could have told you 6 months or a year ago he was going to file for D, but he wanted to take you by suprise.

 

As for FB and linedin he doesn't want any other contact with you apart from relating to your son.

 

You'll be fine in time. IC and keeping busy will help you take your mind of for a while.

 

It's going to be on your mind for a long time yet , so go easy on yourself , but don't put this on your H.

[bigman1]

something you said is just pointed out the most obvious flaw in everything that you said. you were not honest with him because you did not disclose that letter or the thoughts expressed in that letter to your husband. if you were telling him all the things he needed to know and we're being open and honest with him then you would have disclosed perhaps not the letter but the contents or thoughts expressed in that letter. your BH read the letter and knew of your innermost thoughts and then watched to see if you would be truthful with him about them and you concealed that information. it sounds like he waited 8 years for you to come clean and you never did. the whole time it was just festering. He could not trust you because he knew the truth of the depths of your feelings for OM and how he did not measure up. He felt like you kept those intense feelings secret so that you could cherish them.

 

That's why he told you that he was gonna hook up with someone else. He wanted you to know how it felt to know that your spouse desired another over you. He picked that date because it was symbolic.

 

This is an example of how trickle truth kills relationships.

Edited July 18, 2015 by bigman1

[Chrisstro6692]

#428 remorseful_tab

Member

 

Join Date: Jul 2015

Posts: 23

 

I get all the anger I am getting on my last post. I understand it seems self centered and selfish.

 

But trust me, I really made my H my priority these last 8 years (barring the 3 months of the "fog" post DDay). As I said, I did IC. I told him what was discussed. I apologized even when he lashed out. I asked him to go to MC. He wouldn't. I took responsibility for the affair (its one of the reason I was scared to have another child fearing it might strain my relationship with H again). I was always open and honest with him. I answered any questions he had asked, Had he mentioned the letter then, I would have addressed it too. He did npt initiate sex much so I always made it my responsibilty to do so.

 

Doesn't these mean anything?

 

I know it was my affair that killed his love for. But it still hurts when he has left me like this when I am still in love with him.

 

 

Ive been reading this thread and it sounds like you do regret your actions and are truly sorry for what happened, but try to put yourself in his shoes. You carried on an affair for a long time. You lied to the man that you made VOWS too. I guarantee you that in the back of his mind all he could think about was you f***ing this guy and how you would come home and kiss him and tell him how much you loved. How you would probably do things with the OM that you would do with him and he has probably gotten tired of trying to live a lie pretending that everything is all right even with you for the past 8 years doing everything right. Here is the thing is not about how you feel, is about how he feels. You betrayed him at the deepest level that you could only to get laid by someone who got you OFF more than him. You Emasculated him and for a lot of guys that is hard to deal with.

I know you are sorry for your actions and from what I hear sound like a great wife now and a good person, but you have to remember you started this eight years ago. Not trying to be mean, just the truth.

[autumnnight]

Ive been reading this thread and it sounds like you do regret your actions and are truly sorry for what happened, but try to put yourself in his shoes. You carried on an affair for a long time. You lied to the man that you made VOWS too. I guarantee you that in the back of his mind all he could think about was you f***ing this guy and how you would come home and kiss him and tell him how much you loved. How you would probably do things with the OM that you would do with him and he has probably gotten tired of trying to live a lie pretending that everything is all right even with you for the past 8 years doing everything right. Here is the thing is not about how you feel, is about how he feels. You betrayed him at the deepest level that you could only to get laid by someone who got you OFF more than him. You Emasculated him and for a lot of guys that is hard to deal with.

I know you are sorry for your actions and from what I hear sound like a great wife now and a good person, but you have to remember you started this eight years ago. Not trying to be mean, just the truth.

 

This is very well said...excellent personal insight into how her husband probably feels.

 

remorseful, this can be a new start for both of you. He will be free of his pain, and you will be free of the cloud and guilt and being identified by your A.

[Hope Shimmers]

I have an impossible time wrapping my brain around how someone could be married and carry on an affair with a person for more than a YEAR. That is just SO much conscientious and deliberate deceit. It's a whole other LIFE.

 

I was in a marriage for sixteen years that was abusive in every way. I never could have done that. How does someone DO that, even if there are "problems" in the marriage? I will never get it.

 

Still, I agree that he could have let you know earlier that he was not able to continue the marriage.

 

I would have walked immediately. Would you trust your H if he had done the same thing? Would you believe that he would never, ever do it again? A person capable of doing it once is capable of doing it again.

 

The marriage is over. Move on, learn lessons, and live a better life.

[bigman1]

My last post was on a phone and it was hard to type. I wanted to add that you should not take my words as a harsh judgment on you. That was not the spirit that I intended.

 

My point was to simply say that all of your work really could not have been accepted or believed by your BH. He read your innermost thoughts and feelings. Everything that you assert that you were doing was most likely viewed with suspicion.

 

It was like he heard you talking and saying how you loved OM, had better sex with OM, and craved Om and thought your H was nothing. Then, you get caught and start saying, honey I promise to tell you the truth, I love you and no other. I'll tell you everything. Then you never tell him that you said those things. Add to that the 3 months of getting over the OM.

 

That was my point. Not being harsh, just evaluating what you said and trying to find reason in this whole puzzle.

[Friskyone4u]

Remorseful,

 

At this point you probably have just about every theory as to what is in your husbands mind and his reasoning that is imaginable. But none of us have any real clue of what is in his mind specifically. Thefre are people on these forums 20 yeaqrs out from infidelity still struggling, and we all know it can be a marriage killer.

 

It will all come out probably pretty soon. Your husband will come home from Amsterdam and you will probably get a clearer picture of his true thoughts. He will either

(1) come back and proceed warp speed ahead with divorce

(2) come back and tell you there is another woman involved here

(3) come back and reconsider

 

Since you have a child he will be in your life in some way so just like your affair, the details will eventually show up. Until then, we are all guessing I am afraid and there is no rushing the process.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

OK, and how do you suggest she gets over his "whoring around"?

How do you suggest she copes with that day to day, week to week?

She is NOT going to cope well with that, who could?

No-one should put themselves in the position you are suggesting.

 

She has already spent 8 years prostrate before him to no avail, another year of fawning to a hostile man, is a complete waste of her time and could even be highly damaging to her sense of self worth.

 

I guess he ain't coming back, she needs to work from that perspective, communicate as a parent only, heal and move on.

 

 

Easy, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. She's had a year + of thrilling extramarital sex. As far as we know, he's been faithful. He didn't run out & have revenge sex once he found out. If he does start having sex with other girls, he's doing it in an ethical manner, after separating from his wife. She has no legitimate right to complain about that, even if he does it once & realizes that he's made a mistake & wants to reconcile. Only a selfish person would flip out in a situation like that, which I bet she would. Remember that she wigged out at the mere mention of him being physical with a random girl.

 

 

We don't know what her husband really wants & I suspect he doesn't either at this time. He might be going through an early midlife crisis. He stayed for 8 years, so the odds are good that he will come back. It's obvious he loves his son very much. Her job is to figure out what he needs to be happy with her. It's surprising that she couldn't do that in 8 years. The bottom line is that she wants him & right now he doesn't want to; be with her, hear her or see her. She's in an unfavorable position, but do you really think her getting involved with guys right after he leaves will make things easy if he decides to come back after a few months?

[drifter777]

I think we do know what her husband wants - a divorce. I don't think OP could have been any clearer on that point.

[Oberfeldwebel]

This is a very sad story, yet one that I am glad that you posted as I think that it can be helpful to others. It is unfortunate that your ex-husband has decided to take this route. Certainly it is understandable that he was unable to beyond the affair, but to wait this long is unusual. DTK had stated that he lasted 14 months before he made his decision. This seems very reasonable to me, as it gave it all he had, but just could not get by the events. To wait 8 years though and then leave shows that he obviously did not truly forgive you for the affair, this is a waste of both your lives. If you are going to reconcile then do everything you can to get over the affair. I believe that counseling is essential to this process as a good counselor can be the fair broker in the deal. Still as DTK said from personal experience, sometimes you just can’t get by the affair, no matter how hard the WS tries to make amends. As for Remorseful, don’t beg, plead or even attempt further reconciliation, you can’t nice him back. Additionally, don’t let him further disrespect you, let him know that if he does you terminate the conversation. Seek council, if you have not already done so and prepare for the future without him.

[William]

To stave off the inevitable Sunday night pile-on, and noting a marked absence by the thread starter, I'll table this discussion pending the thread starter's alert to moderation that they wish to continue. Long thread, lots of stuff shared. Thanks for that and I want to preserve member's posting privileges by moderating the flow a bit. Thread starter, the 'alert us' button on this post is at your disposal. Thanks!

 

 

Update: Received request and thread re-opened.

Edited July 21, 2015 by William

[cgiles]

Before he announced his wish to move out, did you see any sign warning it ?

 

Less nightouts or weekend family trip, taking more time to answer messages,ect ?

 

It sounds like he applied the 180lists, for move on emotionally of you, and stop to care for you.

 

Even if his announcent sounds like he continues to feel hate toward you.

 

And I'm sorry for you, but I think your husband dissapeared 8 years ago, and the man you rebuild something with, was just looking, smelling, speaking like your husband, but his love, his respect for you, everything you builded together before your affair was gone since he readen this letter.

 

It only takes few words for destroy love.

[remorseful_tab]

He returned from Amsterdam Sunday night. My nother called him yesterday.

 

My mother is devastated to learn of our separation. She is upset with me. But she didn't explicitlt say. She wanted to talk to my H.

 

My husband cut her short on the call and said he wasn't going to change his decision. My mother tried to plead with him and asked him to consider one more chance for me. He wouldn't. He told her he can't see me as his wife anymore.

 

I am waking up scared everyday thinking this would be the day when those dreaded divorce papers arrive.

 

I haven't met any lawyer but I have fixed an appointment with one by the phone. She was the lawyer in one of my friend's divorce.

[remorseful_tab]

Thats a good question. Did I see any signs?

 

My H changed company almost a year ago. Here he got a higher paycheck and a more senior position. He came home a bit late than his previous company and during the week he was a bit more stressed. But weekend were normal as usual.

 

In hindsight this may look as some sign but then, no.