Fiance went for sex /tantra massage

[goingcrazy111]

Thank you for all the advice. 95% of you seem to agree that I should dump him.

There is only one of you who thinks that once a cheater will not necessarily always be a cheater.

Part of me wants to consider his cheating as some "panic-before-marriage" kind of thing. Part of me wants to excuse his cheating by telling myself that he really was very naive and thought he did it because he wanted spiritual relaxation (he tells me that he expected it to be different and had he known it was basically sex he wouldn't have done it). He says the person who did it to him was an esoteric hippy-type person who even has degrees in tantra and that's why he didn't think of it as a prostitute. So I actually think in his mind he might have thought it's not cheating if it's a sensual massage.

 

Of course I would love to believe this and hope that it is a one-time thing.

 

However, there is still no getting around the fact that he went through with this (he could have stopped once he realised what it really was). Also, he disrespected my wishes and to me it is clear that he was bored of always having sex with the same person. I think when he had those massages on holiday (I still believe they were normal because it was in hotel spas where we were staying) he was fantasizing like crazy and that alone is wrong to me!

 

The second reason why I can't trust him anymore is because he did it in the honeymoon phase of our relationship where we had sex all the time and were super loved-up (big time honeymoon phase - every day we told one another that we are so lucky to have found each other and we were one of those couples that are inseperable and where your friends get annoyed that they never see you alone anymore).

 

The third reason is that he had a friend who cheated a few times on his girlfriend and he would always lecture that friend on how wrong it is to cheat, to the extent that the friend would not confide in him anymore. (He told me this). We always talked about how we don't understand people who cheat and that we would never take each other back if one of us cheated.

 

I am going to tell him tonight that we have to break up and end our engagement. It will be one of the most difficult decisions I have ever taken and I know it will be hard to get on my feet again, but I have to be strong and time will eventually heal my wounds. I am also sad because I don't have years and years to wait if I want children, and I know it will take forever to find a new partner, so maybe this crushes my dream to ever have children. I wanted a big family, like 3 to 4 kids.

[goingcrazy111]

As a side note, we have had things where he really did change his behaviour for me (he went into a different (better) career direction for me, he quit smoking, he adopted different lifestyles in certain ways), so sometimes I do hope he would be able to change. However, quitting sex is much more difficult than any of those other decisions and he probably won't be able to control himself forever, especially if we ever happen to have a crisis.

[elaine567]

The third reason is that he had a friend who cheated a few times on his girlfriend and he would always lecture that friend on how wrong it is to cheat, to the extent that the friend would not confide in him anymore. (He told me this). We always talked about how we don't understand people who cheat and that we would never take each other back if one of us cheated.

 

Yes, that is a quite common.

The opinion being expressed is that all cheaters are horrible and the lowest of the low, and they overreact when others cheat, but are actually cheating themselves.

I guess it may be just denial, "they cheated they need punished but I am not cheating, not really, it is just sex, a bj, a hj, a massage...".

 

Or a way of registering their own disgust at themselves, by taking out their anger on another person,

Or it is just a deliberate calculated attempt to throw someone off the scent.

 

It seems many on here have said my husband/wife/bf/gf will not cheat or I cannot believe they will cheat, as he/she hates cheaters, but unfortunately they soon have to eat their words, when the cheating is confirmed.

 

The reason why he didn't want you to have a male masseur->

Psychological projection is a really strange human behavior in which a person ascribes flaws to others that they deny possessing. As a result of this twisted reverse psychology, projection also happens to be a great indicator of cheating in a relationship.

For example, if your significant other is all of the sudden accusing you of sneaking around or being untrustworthy, it is probably because they are being deceitful themselves and are paranoid that you will do the same.

 

I am glad you are making a good decision here and breaking your engagement.

Do not think this is your last chance, you are still young.

As the reasons here for splitting are clear cut, then you can move cleanly on. Do not look back.

Heal and find a much better man to give your love to and have children with.

[goingcrazy111]

Yes, thank you! The projection thing is interesting, and I think he was doing this the past few weeks. He would get paranoid about how he thinks so many guys would fancy me, for example I had lunch with a male friend and he freaked out, or there was someone business-related to me interested in me but I found this very awkward and previously my fiance didn't care about things like that whereas in the past few weeks he flipped out all the time over these insignificant things.

 

He keeps saying how disgusted he is in himself, but he also started saying that people who love each other will get over such things together and this is a bit of a red flag to me.

 

I think the boundary thing is the main problem!

 

Our parents know what happened (my dad thinks I should dump him while my mother thinks I should call off the wedding but give him a chance), his parents were very keen on us marrying and now his mother texted me a few times, saying: if you really love him as much as you say, I think a one-time slip-up is fogivable...

I think this is additional pressure and not healthy. I think he is not a bad person, but (this is partly due to his social background I think - powerful and very wealthy family and people licking their boots right and left) no one ever set him any boundaries and he thinks he can get away with anything. His parents always acted as friends or were not around and nannies were not allowed to deny any wish because otherwise fired.

 

Bottomline, I don't think he is a bad person, but weak and not used to not getting his way (ever since we were dating he actually made progress, he learned to apologise and make compromises). I truly think that he might learn from this, I truly think he is just as heartbroken as I am, so maybe if he ever falls in love with someone new, he will not cheat again.

 

I will end it because I know that if I accept it, the boundary once crossed will be again and again.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Thank you for your replies (can you tell how desperate I am, I am checking this every minute). My mind and heart also tell me that the case is clear. The oooonly small hang up I still have is that I'm thinking maybe he really needed this experience to explore his sexuality and now that it has happened, it's out of his system.

 

Sweetie, don't be so naive. Ever heard of Pandora's Box? There's more where that came from, trust me.

 

You deserve better than this.

 

Good luck.

[Mr. Lucky]

I will end it because I know that if I accept it, the boundary once crossed will be again and again.

 

To me, the most salient point is your concern this happened during the honeymoon period of your relationship. What does that forecast 20 years into the marriage?

 

I'm on my second marriage. Both partners showed me exactly who they were before we tied the knot - in the case of my first wife, selfish with poor boundaries. Not believing her cost me 10 years...

 

Mr. Lucky

[turnera]

One thing I think many women have trouble understanding is just HOW important sex is to men. From what I've gathered from being around so many in my life, it's more than just a mental need; it's a physical need. It literally pushes them to want, to do, stuff, to get more sex. There's a reason for the old saying, all men need is a willing host. If you go around thinking your H doesn't think about sex at least 5 times a day, you're probably wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be naive.

[Fleur de cactus]

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. You are heartbroken now and no one could understand how you feel right now. Be strong, i am very happy you made the right decision by calling off the wedding. Don't listen to his mother, she is very manipulative and what she wants is to save her son from a shame for him and the family.

 

What he is doing is not acceptable. I had to google tantra to understand what it is. At the beginning I did not see anything wrong, but as I read your post, what he was doing was sex which is cheating but he was manipulating to make you think that it is a tantra! and nothing wrong.

 

End this. If you had to teach him good behavior, he change for you but really he may became the true himself again after your marriage. Be glad he showed you his real him before the wedding.

 

I am very sorry, and hope you continue to find strength to cope with his situation.

[Phoenician]

One thing I think many women have trouble understanding is just HOW important sex is to men. From what I've gathered from being around so many in my life, it's more than just a mental need; it's a physical need. It literally pushes them to want, to do, stuff, to get more sex. There's a reason for the old saying, all men need is a willing host. If you go around thinking your H doesn't think about sex at least 5 times a day, you're probably wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be naive.

 

the worst is that most of the time women assume or indirectly show that when they do sex to their partner they are doing a favor , and expect a service or a return out of it .rarely you see a man rejecting sex even if tired or sick, while a woman needs to be in the mood , have all her other needs satisfied in order to have a successful intercourse.

if women understands that the only language of love a man can speak is physical and if men can help in services without any expectations , they could be in heaven again.

[goingcrazy111]

turnera One thing I think many women have trouble understanding is just HOW important sex is to men. From what I've gathered from being around so many in my life, it's more than just a mental need; it's a physical need. It literally pushes them to want, to do, stuff, to get more sex. There's a reason for the old saying, all men need is a willing host. If you go around thinking your H doesn't think about sex at least 5 times a day, you're probably wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be naive.

 

What do you mean by being naive? That no man is to be trusted and that I should accept it? I hope that there are me out there who are able to control themselves if they have regular sex with the fiance they claim to love more thzn anything.

[goingcrazy111]

"the worst is that most of the time women assume or indirectly show that when they do sex to their partner they are doing a favor , and expect a service or a return out of it .rarely you see a man rejecting sex even if tired or sick, while a woman needs to be in the mood , have all her other needs satisfied in order to have a successful intercourse.

if women understands that the only language of love a man can speak is physical and if men can help in services without any expectations , they could be in heaven again."

 

I think this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Personally I love sex and never pretended to do a favour to my prtner. I did the tantra regularly with him and in my earlier post I stated that I liked it. My fiance knew I loved sex and would regularly tell me how great it was.

 

And it is untrue that men rarely reject sex. There were times when my fiance would reject sex because he was stressed and overworked.

[No Limit]

Our parents know what happened (my dad thinks I should dump him while my mother thinks I should call off the wedding but give him a chance), his parents were very keen on us marrying and now his mother texted me a few times, saying: if you really love him as much as you say, I think a one-time slip-up is fogivable...

I think this is additional pressure and not healthy. I think he is not a bad person, but (this is partly due to his social background I think - powerful and very wealthy family and people licking their boots right and left) no one ever set him any boundaries and he thinks he can get away with anything. His parents always acted as friends or were not around and nannies were not allowed to deny any wish because otherwise fired.

 

Don't be manipulated by his parents; they'd just prefer their son was not dumped, on top of that for cheating. And if it's really true that he would prefer to have things going his way all the time, maybe he should 'buy a wife' instead. Or maybe one of his tantra "massage therapists" coule be pursued for more if he flashes her a good amount of cash.

[Satu]

He cheated.

 

That's the issue.

 

That, and nothing else.

[turnera]

the worst is that most of the time women assume or indirectly show that when they do sex to their partner they are doing a favor , and expect a service or a return out of it .rarely you see a man rejecting sex even if tired or sick, while a woman needs to be in the mood , have all her other needs satisfied in order to have a successful intercourse.

if women understands that the only language of love a man can speak is physical and if men can help in services without any expectations , they could be in heaven again.

This is very true. Women DO have to have their needs met to want to have sex (generally speaking). We do NOT have the same physical drive to have sex like bunnies (generally speaking). Goes back to caveman days, to keep the species going. That's just how it is. And, IMO, that's the BALANCE nature set in motion so that women have SOME semblance of power, since they are not the stronger sex. If a man wants sex, he'd better be offering something the woman wants in return. And that something is usually getting emotional needs met, like conversation, safety, security - the most typical top 3 Emotional Needs for woman.

 

And conversely, when the woman's top 3 ENs are being met, she usually WANTS to please her man to meet HIS top 3 ENs (usually sex, recreation, and admiration).

 

Of course there are people who don't fit the norm. For a myriad of reasons. And the more complex society gets, the more likely you are to mate with one of those people who don't fit the norm. Eventually, there won't BE a norm any more.

[turnera]

turnera One thing I think many women have trouble understanding is just HOW important sex is to men. From what I've gathered from being around so many in my life, it's more than just a mental need; it's a physical need. It literally pushes them to want, to do, stuff, to get more sex. There's a reason for the old saying, all men need is a willing host. If you go around thinking your H doesn't think about sex at least 5 times a day, you're probably wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be naive.

 

What do you mean by being naive? That no man is to be trusted and that I should accept it? I hope that there are me out there who are able to control themselves if they have regular sex with the fiance they claim to love more thzn anything.

What I mean is if you say to your H 'if you love me, you'll stop thinking about sex with anyone but me, you'll never get a hard on unless you're in our bedroom, and you'll never be in a position where you're considering cheating BECAUSE YOU WANT MORE SEX.'

 

Many women grow up with this fairy tale vision of what a 'man' is - Prince Charming who wants you, only you, and will shower you with affection for the next 60 years. In reality, he's a human man with manly desires and urges and - based on his FOO rules and problems - will either control those desires and urges, or he won't.

 

I work in a man's industry. And I can count more men that EXPECT TO CHEAT than those who don't. Many of them just see lying to their wives as part of doing business, while it's their 'job' to get as much skirt on the side as they can manage.

 

That's what I mean by being naive. If you don't EXPECT your man to have such feelings - whether he acts on them or not, he still has them - you are being naive and you will make decisions based on FALSE KNOWLEDGE.

[goingcrazy111]

I ended our engagement last night... I give hime the chance to justify himself and tried to find out why he did it. He wouldn't say anything other than that he only realised the gravity of his actions after it happened. I told him I knew this wasn't the first time, which he stronlgy denied and said it was an absolute lie and it was the first time. He would not give any details, nothing. I said I could never trust him and that I couldn't marry him. He was sitting there for a long time without talking, just staring into the distane almost looking angry. He said he is glad that he told me what happened because he couldn't have gone into marriage with a secret like that. In the end he hugged me for a very long time, crying, and said he was incredibly sorry for the pain he put me through.

 

All well but five minutes afterwards I get this really mean message from his mother saying that obviously we weren't meant to be then and that if I loved him, I would have taken him back after his mistake. On top of it they offered me a ridiculous price to buy the house from me. Can't believe it is ending like this!!! Time to call a lawyer...

 

I just hope I will find someone who will be able to control his urges and not cheat, or at least not cheat when we are in the honeymoon phase of our relationship, and never cheat with prostitutes!!!

 

Thank you for all your advice. It is very helpful to see things from an outside perspective and it seems clear to me that both male and female advisors would agree that I should leave him. It has made my decision easier.

[TaraMaiden2]

....and who dafuq has 'a Degree in Tantra'...?

 

Tantra is a religious/spirtual practice which takes years and years to accomplish, understand and implement.

There are sadly many stories in relevant news outlets of Western women feeling they were duped, tricked and coerced into having sex with their tantic Masters in the Asian East.

They have even gone so far as to take these Masters to court for rape and assault.

 

Perhaps they are right. Maybe they were duped.....

 

It is up to a Master of Tantric practices to evaluate if the pupil is ready.

 

Either these women WERE duped, or they simply were NOT ready and didn't understand the implications of the ritual, the requirements and the mental level and stage of involvement.

 

But a Degree? In 'Tantra'...?

 

Gimme a break...

 

And his parents' values just go to show his upbringing and standards lack a certain ... something.

 

Who knows? Maybe his dad was unfaithful to his mom, but his mom made the 'ultimate sacrifice' and stayed with him.

So maybe ( I would bet) she is projecting her dormant anger and resentment of her husband's infidelity onto you, because you cannot bring yourself to make a similar gesture. ("I stayed with my husband in spite of his cheating! Why can't you do the same?! It makes a mockery of everything I sacrificed for this man!")

 

As well you shouldn't.

 

Ask her.

Was your husband ever unfaithful to you? REPEATEDLY??

 

If she says no, then she's in no position to judge. What would she do if her husband visited a massage parlour for sex with a stranger?

 

If she says yes - then more fool her for sticking around. You're NOT her, and your standards are higher, thank you very much.....

[Popsicle]

Honey you've got a cheater on your hands (always did based on the background info you gave regarding his mentality). Don't sign up for a lifetime of this and call off the wedding now!

 

PS- don't ever buy a house with someone you're not legally married to (already).

Edited July 17, 2015 by Popsicle

[CarrieT]

OP, as hard as that was, I am proud of you.

 

So many people have posted here on how they gave someone a second chance only to find out later they had been cheated on again (and again).

 

You did well and we are here for you.

[Phoenician]

My opinuon about men and women was a general thing ,nit repsonding to ur situation. Sorry for what u havebeen through , u cant live with a cheater , what u have done is the best . Better now than later...

 

Not men are like this , sone are faithfull and desrve u . Good luck in your seperation , unless u decide to firgive him , but trust is broken in this case.

[spanz1]

so he likes tantric massages, he asked you to be involved in them, and you basically shut him down, and now are surprised he went and found them outside somewhere?

 

 

Ok. Maybe you should consider giving him his tantric massage every day, and that would be the end of it. If you are not willing to put in the effort, then don't ask/don't tell is the rule.

[TaraMaiden2]

so he likes tantric massages,

There's no such thing...

 

he asked you to be involved in them, and you basically shut him down, and now are surprised he went and found them outside somewhere?

No, she's disappointed that he cheated on her after he assured her he never would....

 

 

Ok. Maybe you should consider giving him his tantric massage every day,

Could you describe to us what you think a 'Tantric massage' actually is?

 

and that would be the end of it.

well, in spite of the fact that they were enjoying a healthy sex life, it obviously wasn't the end of it - was it?

 

If you are not willing to put in the effort, then don't ask/don't tell is the rule.

Pardon me for asking, but have you even actually read the thread....? Edited July 17, 2015 by TaraMaiden2

[No Limit]

All well but five minutes afterwards I get this really mean message from his mother saying that obviously we weren't meant to be then and that if I loved him, I would have taken him back after his mistake.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she was the type of woman that just ignored her husband's cheating and now expects everyone to tolerate the same treatment because "it didn't kill her". But just because she set her bar so low doesn't mean you have to. Next to the cheating husband it sounds like you also got rid of a dragon-in-law.

 

I just hope I will find someone who will be able to control his urges and not cheat, or at least not cheat when we are in the honeymoon phase of our relationship, and never cheat with prostitutes!!!

 

There's plenty of them out there. Good luck.

[Satu]

so he likes tantric massages, he asked you to be involved in them, and you basically shut him down, and now are surprised he went and found them outside somewhere?

 

 

Ok. Maybe you should consider giving him his tantric massage every day, and that would be the end of it. If you are not willing to put in the effort, then don't ask/don't tell is the rule.

 

He cheated.

 

That's the issue.

 

That, and nothing else.

 

 

My comment above is the point that you didn't get.

[elaine567]

so he likes tantric massages, he asked you to be involved in them, and you basically shut him down, and now are surprised he went and found them outside somewhere?

 

Ok. Maybe you should consider giving him his tantric massage every day, and that would be the end of it. If you are not willing to put in the effort, then don't ask/don't tell is the rule.

 

A bit of reading comprehension required here.

She gave him "tantric" massages regularly, BUT she just wasn't willing to involve third parties and told him so.

 

He decided to go off and involve third parties off his own bat, daily on holiday, and that is called cheating...