RoseVille Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This is a first for me. I've been dating someone new. I'm interested to know how I could have done better, if at all, and how to respond now, if at all. We were having a conversation on the phone about various topics, sharing what we did that day, talking about random things in the news, things we've experienced recently at work, with hobbies, etc., pretty random chit chat. A number of times he'd talk to me in what I felt was a very rude, condescending, patronizing voice, really out of place for what we were talking about. For the most part, I let it go, but I'd think to myself, "That was a little strange." He's done it before in other conversations, but this conversation it happened several times. He'd correct my grammar mid-sentence, and criticize other thoughts/opinions/joys I hold. The details really aren't important; I have thick skin when teasing and playing around, and enjoy sarcasm. His manner of communicating is just very difficult to accept and ignore. I've never been talked down to quite that way. Towards the end of the call, when he did it for the fourth time, I told him word for word: "I understand the point you're making, but I have to say this because it's really bugging me. When you say it that way, in that tone of voice, it comes across to me as very condescending and patronizing, as though you see me as a stupid little girl." He apologized profusely and said he meant it to be funny, not offensive. I gladly accepted his apology, as it seemed sincere and had a sort of, "ah jeez, yeah, I've heard that before" sort of tone of grimace and regret. We awkwardly got off the phone shortly after that, as it was late. Today, he sends me a text telling me he's "angry that I called him patronizing and condescending," and that "he doesn't want to talk to me today, but will accept an email later if I want to discuss it further." When I read it, I said out loud to myself, "You're angry that I told you the truth? In the most tactful way I could in that moment? Okay, buddy." How could I have expressed to him that I felt he was patronizing me, without telling him that I felt like the way he was saying what he was saying was patronizing me? And should I respond to him? If so, how? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
DaisyBug Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Danger, Will Robinson!!!!! OMG, please reconsider being with this guy. Trust me.... (Sorry, short reply.... To be continued.) 9 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Danger, Will Robinson!!!!! OMG, please reconsider being with this guy. Trust me.... (Sorry, short reply.... To be continued.) Oh, I'm with you on reconsidering. I'm just having a hard time putting my finger on why this particular instance is a bad sign. I know it is a bad sign, but help me put together the reasons why. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Yeaaaahhh...this lack of emotional intelligence and tact is not going to get BETTER with time Trust me on this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
GemmaUK Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Wow! I certainly wouldn't be having any further contact with him. That's even worse than my abusive short term ex was. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
GemmaUK Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Oh, I'm with you on reconsidering. I'm just having a hard time putting my finger on why this particular instance is a bad sign. I know it is a bad sign, but help me put together the reasons why. Briefly put he has: A: Put you down on a few occasions from the sound of it. B: Says he is angry that you told him that you didn't like being treated that way. (No one should expect to be treated that way in a relationship by the way). C: Tells you he isn't speaking to you but 'will accept' email. He sounds like a controller and it sounds like he has no respect for you - these are my initial thoughts. Having said all of that there are more signs that make up someone who is abusive, never just one or two signs. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
DaisyBug Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This will be a man who does no wrong. Everything that does go wrong will be your fault. He will be emotionally and verbally abusive (if not physically as well) and cold. Basically, you will just have to "shut up" or else. Walk on eggshells. You're lucky this is happening so early. I wouldn't stick around another second. 11 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Briefly put he has: A: Put you down on a few occasions from the sound of it. B: Says he is angry that you told him that you didn't like being treated that way. (No one should expect to be treated that way in a relationship by the way). C: Tells you he isn't speaking to you but 'will accept' email. He sounds like a controller and it sounds like he has no respect for you - these are my initial thoughts. Having said all of that there are more signs that make up someone who is abusive, never just one or two signs. ^ Yes to the controller vibe. Also I don't like the sound of "will accept e-mail" - suggests to me that after some reflection, with which ppl usually cool off and accept some fault and come to the center, he instead initially started off semi-apologetic but then after reflection got mad and offended (for no legit reason). e.g. kneejerk defensive reaction, e.g. childishness, e.g. big ego, e.g. 'little woman' issues. As to how to respond, I wouldn't at all. To me, the "I don't want to talk to you today (bc I'm mad that you were right and you stood up for yourself)" is the final little boy's nail in the big person's coffin, and to cater to it at all would be to play ball by his rules. That's a bad precedent. Instead he needs to understand that his actions have consequences, and that he got exactly what he asked for by acting like a slightly scary kid in a man's body. Too bad, but this one sounds like a bust. There will be others I'm sure. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Satu Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 If he didn't realise how he was behaving, he lacks self awareness. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
DaisyBug Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I agree, don't respond at all. I would immediately cease contact and thank God you dodged a bullet. At the VERY least, he is a complete a**hole. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
GemmaUK Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This will be a man who does no wrong. Everything that does go wrong will be your fault. The 'does no wrong' part can also apply to anyone else he can blame for anything at all that goes wrong or has gone wrong but you being his partner will be in the line of fire the most often. It's actually one of the biggest first signals of an abuser if he can't own his own 'stuff'. I suspect all of his ex's were 'psycho' in some way or another too if he has the blame it all on someone else philosophy. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
DaisyBug Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) If he didn't realise how he was behaving, he lacks self awareness. I think he knows. She just may have caught him off guard by standing up for herself (his other women probably didn't dare) then realized he lost his "power" by apologizing. He's letting her know not to ever do that again. Big, huge, freaking ginormous red flag. Edited July 16, 2015 by DaisyBug 5 Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm just having a hard time putting my finger on why this particular instance is a bad sign. I think because he's bringing unnecessary drama. You said how you felt about that interaction. He came back saying that he was angry, accusing you of calling him names (if you are reporting accurately, you did not), and saying he didn't want to talk to you. It's not necessarily a problem to me that he wasn't finished with the interaction, but I think he might have handled it in a more mature and less drama filled way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 ^ Yes to the controller vibe. Also I don't like the sound of "will accept e-mail" - suggests to me that after some reflection, with which ppl usually cool off and accept some fault and come to the center, he instead initially started off semi-apologetic but then after reflection got mad and offended (for no legit reason). e.g. kneejerk defensive reaction, e.g. childishness, e.g. big ego, e.g. 'little woman' issues. As to how to respond, I wouldn't at all. To me, the "I don't want to talk to you today (bc I'm mad that you were right and you stood up for yourself)" is the final little boy's nail in the big person's coffin, and to cater to it at all would be to play ball by his rules. That's a bad precedent. Instead he needs to understand that his actions have consequences, and that he got exactly what he asked for by acting like a slightly scary kid in a man's body. Too bad, but this one sounds like a bust. There will be others I'm sure. Your post makes me want to respond to him and use some of your phrasing! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AppleKakes Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'd have to overhear your convos, cuz I've had women under me in the workplace pull the "I don't like your tone" and/or "You're condescending" when they simply didn't like the "message"... Also, women and men's communication styles/needs are different. Women wanna talk about random things and men, IMO, are more "matter of fact". Men don't sit around like the SATC crew and just "talk". When they speak it has to have a point...like 'what's the issue and how can we solve it'. Look at TV, who watches certain things like Lifetime? Women do - not men. So, I think both of you need to have a talk about communication styles/differences. He probably went on the defensive when you told him he was talking down to you. Maybe you can let him know that you need to vent/chat after a long day and appreciate him just providing a ear to absorb it...and in return, you'll let him know how much he is a sweet guy for being there for you....OR, stop chatting with him and do that with your female friends. My fav podcaster had two similar calls. One couple on their "date nite" for her, she literally wanted to sit around and talk. On his nite, sex. Again, men and women are different...Another call? The man and wife are both teachers and after a long day, her idea of unwinding is to rehash her terrible day and he wants to forget his workday. My fav podcaster advised him to "guide her" into a bubble bath with wine and teach her a different way to winddown w/o barking his ear off... Link to post Share on other sites
Satu Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I Also, women and men's communication styles/needs are different. Women wanna talk about random things and men, IMO, are more "matter of fact". Men are from Mars, women are from Boston. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Let me boil this down: He acts like a dick, repeatedly. You finally get bugged by it and call him on it. His first reaction is to backtrack and apologize, but as he thinks about it, he says to himself "how dare she point out that I was being a dick". Then goes into silent treatment mode, though if you want to reach out to him, he might entertain your entreaty. Sounds swell. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Satu Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Lazy man: "How dare you say I'm lazy?" Greedy man: "How dare you say I'm greedy?" His behaviour fell within his blind spot. How dare you say's he's patronising and condescending? He can't see it. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
melodymatters Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I agree with all of the above posters and that he comes off as controlling. If nothing else consider this : if someone you cared about said they felt like YOU were being patronizing, how would you react ? A healthy caring friend or partner would immediately feel badly, would think about it, would ask for examples and apologize for making you feel that way. Even if they didn't see it themselves they would be a big enough person to CONSIDER that they might inadvertently have come off that way and try to correct it. In this case it's No, you're wrong and I'm mad at you for telling me how YOU feel. Ugh ! 6 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'd have to overhear your convos, cuz I've had women under me in the workplace pull the "I don't like your tone" and/or "You're condescending" when they simply didn't like the "message"... Also, women and men's communication styles/needs are different. Women wanna talk about random things and men, IMO, are more "matter of fact". Men don't sit around like the SATC crew and just "talk". When they speak it has to have a point...like 'what's the issue and how can we solve it'. Look at TV, who watches certain things like Lifetime? Women do - not men. So, I think both of you need to have a talk about communication styles/differences. He probably went on the defensive when you told him he was talking down to you. Maybe you can let him know that you need to vent/chat after a long day and appreciate him just providing a ear to absorb it...and in return, you'll let him know how much he is a sweet guy for being there for you....OR, stop chatting with him and do that with your female friends. My fav podcaster had two similar calls. One couple on their "date nite" for her, she literally wanted to sit around and talk. On his nite, sex. Again, men and women are different...Another call? The man and wife are both teachers and after a long day, her idea of unwinding is to rehash her terrible day and he wants to forget his workday. My fav podcaster advised him to "guide her" into a bubble bath with wine and teach her a different way to winddown w/o barking his ear off... Not sure where that narrative came from ....Rose said they were sharing a conversation, he was participating equally, etc. In fact it almost sounds like he was more into it than her since he made a point about being so emphatic about his ends. I don't think we can assume he was just "being a sweet guy" by being there for her and listening to her babble on indulgently. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'd have to overhear your convos, cuz I've had women under me in the workplace pull the "I don't like your tone" and/or "You're condescending" when they simply didn't like the "message"... Also, women and men's communication styles/needs are different. Women wanna talk about random things and men, IMO, are more "matter of fact". Men don't sit around like the SATC crew and just "talk". When they speak it has to have a point...like 'what's the issue and how can we solve it'. Look at TV, who watches certain things like Lifetime? Women do - not men. So, I think both of you need to have a talk about communication styles/differences. He probably went on the defensive when you told him he was talking down to you. Maybe you can let him know that you need to vent/chat after a long day and appreciate him just providing a ear to absorb it...and in return, you'll let him know how much he is a sweet guy for being there for you....OR, stop chatting with him and do that with your female friends. My fav podcaster had two similar calls. One couple on their "date nite" for her, she literally wanted to sit around and talk. On his nite, sex. Again, men and women are different...Another call? The man and wife are both teachers and after a long day, her idea of unwinding is to rehash her terrible day and he wants to forget his workday. My fav podcaster advised him to "guide her" into a bubble bath with wine and teach her a different way to winddown w/o barking his ear off... No, to all of this. It's rude and condescending to interrupt someone mid-sentence to correct their grammar, or to tell them they chose the wrong word ("You mean Affect not Effect" [he misheard me, I did have the correct word]), in a correcting, fatherly voice. When discussing your favorite books, it's rude and condescending to tell the person who's talking about their favorite book that their book is fine for "people who don't want to have to think too much" in a baby voice. It's rude and condescending to tell someone, yet again in a baby voice, that it's silly for them to participate in triathlons when they're slow on the bike, "But sweetie, you don't want to embarrass yourself when you come in last!" 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Not sure where that narrative came from ....Rose said they were sharing a conversation, he was participating equally, etc. In fact it almost sounds like he was more into it than her since he made a point about being so emphatic about his ends. I don't think we can assume he was just "being a sweet guy" by being there for her and listening to her babble on indulgently. Yes, it was very much a back-and-forth sharing conversation. "What did you do today?" led to discussions about reading a book, which led to a discussion about our favorite books, which led to discussions about how/when we read, which led to conversations about falling asleep when reading, which led to discussions about what makes us tired, that triathalon training makes me tired... etc. It was a very natural conversation, like you'd have with anyone when just hanging out. Only this time, it was over the phone. In the past, I think when he'd be an ass, he could see the reaction on my face/body language, and he monitored himself. With this phone call, he didn't have those cues to pick up on. And perhaps that annoyed me too, since it kept happening. And I realized the only way he'd know is if I TOLD him. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Satu Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 In the past, I think when he'd be an ass, he could see the reaction on my face/body language, and he monitored himself. With this phone call, he didn't have those cues to pick up on. And perhaps that annoyed me too, since it kept happening. And I realized the only way he'd know is if I TOLD him. It sounds like he's got something he wants to prove to himself... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
cerridwen Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 It sounds like he's got something he wants to prove to himself... From where I sit, he wants to prove that he's a real dildo. To which I say, "Mission accomplished." 9 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 From where I sit, he wants to prove that he's a real dildo. To which I say, "Mission accomplished." Afternoon coffee just hit the screen, thanks! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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