Loose Wife?

[TaraMaiden2]

Call it what you want. You sound like criminals nowadays who expect a red carpet to jail and if they don't get it they cry police brutality. Sure I wasn't easy on her but what do you expect when you continue to lie to your spouse and have emotional affairs behind their back? A red carpet?

I thougfht we had established she didn't do anything 'behind your back'? That this was 17 years ago when you were apart?

And that the only leverage you have against her is the fact she lied, and we have also established why she chose to lie, because of your judgemental condemnatory attitude?

Seriously, I thought that had been a given....

 

I was the one who reached out to marriage counseling. My counselor even gave me credit in front of my wife who accused me of doing NOTHING about our problems. He said how did you get here?

But you weren't 'doing anything' about the problems. You were building up an extremely negative image and attitude - one you are still clinging to, by referring to her in far-less-than-complimentary terms.... You haven't moved on and shed the negative feelings you have... While many of us have tried to explain how twisted this all is, you have persisted in your justification of treating her this way, because you feel entitled to do so... ?

 

Again it's so easy for people, including myself, to suggest that the marriage is over and we should go separate ways. In reality it isn't nearly as simple especially when you have 4 kids and years of investment into it.

 

I had two kids and 22 years. I walked away from it in the bat of an eyelid.

It can be done.

Which would be better, in your eyes?

Staying or going?

If you stay, you MUST address your own opinions and attitude....

[sandylee1]

Thanks Sandy. That is the constructive feedback that I really need. Thanks for listening and getting right to the point. Much appreciated!!!

 

Your welcome.

 

There's a couple of things I'd be concerned about in your shoes. Her cheating on her Ex three times and the FB stuff.

 

Whilst it's in the past.......I'd want to know why she cheated. Was she very young? Problems in the relationship? Just so you know for the future. Although having said that my H and I didn't grill each other about past relationships.

 

The FB stuff........it's not what a married person should do, so I'd want to get to the bottom of it.

 

Not mentioning the guy she slept with during the break up was out of fear. Perhaps she regretted it and just wanted to forget it , or knowing your views she might have felt ashamed.

 

I think the important thing is the here and now and how authentic she is. I'd hate to be judged on those 2 incidents alone.

 

My view is to let the past go and address any current problems , with a view to moving forward.

 

Is she transparent?

Does she let you know where she's going? Any unaccounted time?

Do you think she's cheating now?

[Snaggletooth]

I can't believe the way the OP is being jumped on. He's been called everything from psychotic to a wife abuser.

 

This man was lied to and deceived. He unwittingly based his life on lies and deceit. It's a bloody awful thing to discover. I've been there, so has my girlfriend, so have many others. The person you base your life around, the person you chose to be the mother/father of your kids, the person you dedicated and committed your life too..... and it was based on lies. It's a hell of a punch in the guts and you don't get those years back.

 

This person married you, knowing they were lying to you. They had kids with you, knowing they were lying to you. The watched you make the biggest and most important decisions of your life, based on their lies. Based on false pretence.

 

How's that for respect, honour, love, kindness, consideration and compassion?

 

The OP is currently upset and angry. Understandably so. He's just found out his wife has lied to him from day one. He feels deceived and manipulated. He feels betrayed and robbed of choice made from truth and honesty. He needs time to settle down, step back and think. Whatever path he chooses, it's his choice. He should be able to make that choice without being insulted for not being happy about discovering he woman he based his entire life around was lying to him.

 

The problem with lies is often not so much what the lie was about, it's the fact the one person in the world you should be able to trust was lying to you all along. In order to get past that you need to rebuild trust, and that means the truth.

[serial muse]

All I can say is it's going to be one long road to recovery. One baby step at a time.

 

You want an unequivocal absolute from your wife but you aren't willing to offer the same?

[SSJROMANCE]

You want an unequivocal absolute from your wife but you aren't willing to offer the same?

 

 

What do you mean?

[serial muse]

I can't believe the way the OP is being jumped on. He's been called everything from psychotic to a wife abuser.

 

This man was lied to and deceived. He unwittingly based his life on lies and deceit. It's a bloody awful thing to discover. I've been there, so has my girlfriend, so have many others. The person you base your life around, the person you chose to be the mother/father of your kids, the person you dedicated and committed your life too..... and it was based on lies. It's a hell of a punch in the guts and you don't get those years back.

 

This person married you, knowing they were lying to you. They had kids with you, knowing they were lying to you. The watched you make the biggest and most important decisions of your life, based on their lies. Based on false pretence.

 

How's that for respect, honour, love, kindness, consideration and compassion?

 

The OP is currently upset and angry. Understandably so. He's just found out his wife has lied to him from day one. He feels deceived and manipulated. He feels betrayed and robbed of choice made from truth and honesty. He needs time to settle down, step back and think. Whatever path he chooses, it's his choice. He should be able to make that choice without being insulted for not being happy about discovering he woman he based his entire life around was lying to him.

 

The problem with lies is often not so much what the lie was about, it's the fact the one person in the world you should be able to trust was lying to you all along. In order to get past that you need to rebuild trust, and that means the truth.

 

If it were just the lies, I would agree with you. As I said in my earlier post, that would be a big problem for me too. In fact, it has been. My exH was a cheater and a habitual liar. The lying was the thing that I couldn't get past.

 

So, you know, I left.

 

The issue here, though, is about the present. He wants her to come clean but he already isn't happy with her past. He calls her a whore. He disparages her and looks down on her. It's not just anger; it's spite. It's ugly.

 

Then he says this:

 

All I EVER wanted was the truth and that has been hard to come by.

 

which is actually not true. He wants the truth AND he wants her past to not have happened. But it did happen and that's that. And berating her for the rest of her life for it isn't good for anybody. If she didn't have low self esteem I'd guess she would have left long since.

 

People are saying they should split because she can't change any of that now. And he hasn't given any assurance that he will be kind to her even if she never lies again. He still thinks of her this way, and that's what she would have to live with. And so would he. So what is the point? It's frankly awful.

 

At some point he'd have to let the past and his judgments of it go if they're to have any chance of future happiness. I agree that without trust it's very hard to do that. But that's why I've been asking what he's willing to do, if she offers up that trust. And the answer is: Nothing. He thinks it's all on her. He's not willing to forgive the past or release judgment of her, but he's willing to entertain the idea of staying married as long as he can give her hell about it for the rest of their lives, and she should thank him for it.

 

And frankly, given that, she probably would cheat.

 

So they sound like each others' hell, and I cannot fathom why they'd stay married and let their children watch that continue to unfold.

[serial muse]

What do you mean?

 

I mean you say you'll take it day by day with the whole being kind to her thing, but she'd better never tell even a white lie or you're dunzo.

 

See my above post for why that sounds like a terrible nightmare for everyone involved, including you.

[SSJROMANCE]

I thougfht we had established she didn't do anything 'behind your back'? That this was 17 years ago when you were apart?

And that the only leverage you have against her is the fact she lied, and we have also established why she chose to lie, because of your judgemental condemnatory attitude?

Seriously, I thought that had been a given....

 

 

But you weren't 'doing anything' about the problems. You were building up an extremely negative image and attitude - one you are still clinging to, by referring to her in far-less-than-complimentary terms.... You haven't moved on and shed the negative feelings you have... While many of us have tried to explain how twisted this all is, you have persisted in your justification of treating her this way, because you feel entitled to do so... ?

 

 

 

I had two kids and 22 years. I walked away from it in the bat of an eyelid.

It can be done.

Which would be better, in your eyes?

Staying or going?

If you stay, you MUST address your own opinions and attitude....

 

 

I don't know if she has done anything behind my back but let's assume not. Just about a year ago she got a ride home with the husband of a friend's house she was at. He was drunk. He stopped short of our house on the street, put the car in park, slide over to her and asked if she wanted to get something going. She claims nothing happened told him no in which he continued to drop her off.

 

She waited a month to tell me. Reason (she said) was she was protecting our friendship and wanted to talk to the wife first. Well by the time she told me she still hadn't talked to the wife. What message did that send to the husband? If that were me I would have marched right over to her house the next day. So things like that is why I wonder if she has been faithful because her story just doesn't add up. So I really wouldn't know if she has or not.

 

I find it unfair for you to say I wasn't "doing anything about the problem". For one when you have a wife who changes her story every day every week to something else yes it's going to take awhile to get the truth out. And when you bust her in another lie then everything else you have talked about becomes questionable once again. So it took years of work.

 

I am persistent in finding out that ever changing truth. You bet. You call it "treating her this way" and I simply call it wanting to know the truth. Why doesn't she stop treating ME this way. What about that? Why doesn't she just stop lying? Isn't that abuse?

[autumnnight]

All I can say is it's going to be one long road to recovery. One baby step at a time.

 

All of my questions were yes/no, so I will take your response to mean that as of now, all the answers are no?

[SSJROMANCE]

If it were just the lies, I would agree with you. As I said in my earlier post, that would be a big problem for me too. In fact, it has been. My exH was a cheater and a habitual liar. The lying was the thing that I couldn't get past.

 

So, you know, I left.

 

The issue here, though, is about the present. He wants her to come clean but he already isn't happy with her past. He calls her a whore. He disparages her and looks down on her. It's not just anger; it's spite. It's ugly.

 

Then he says this:

 

 

 

which is actually not true. He wants the truth AND he wants her past to not have happened. But it did happen and that's that. And berating her for the rest of her life for it isn't good for anybody. If she didn't have low self esteem I'd guess she would have left long since.

 

People are saying they should split because she can't change any of that now. And he hasn't given any assurance that he will be kind to her even if she never lies again. He still thinks of her this way, and that's what she would have to live with. And so would he. So what is the point? It's frankly awful.

 

At some point he'd have to let the past and his judgments of it go if they're to have any chance of future happiness. I agree that without trust it's very hard to do that. But that's why I've been asking what he's willing to do, if she offers up that trust. And the answer is: Nothing. He thinks it's all on her. He's not willing to forgive the past or release judgment of her, but he's willing to entertain the idea of staying married as long as he can give her hell about it for the rest of their lives, and she should thank him for it.

 

And frankly, given that, she probably would cheat.

 

So they sound like each others' hell, and I cannot fathom why they'd stay married and let their children watch that continue to unfold.

 

 

The issue is trust. My original question had to do with am I the only one that thinks this story is BS? I think she is lying. She has changed her story many times before. It's been a nightmare. Thanks to some I have some new light shed onto what she says and will confer with her on it. I have only commented on other aspects just to make things clearer but it's always been about trust. Am I happy she slept with every guy who raised his hand? Nope. Will I ever? Nope. Will I find a way to go on? That's the plan.

 

The question as to what am I willing to offer up if she offers trust? I think that's absurd. I have alway offered trust. She shouldn't have to reward me for that and the same applies to her. Trust is the foundation of a good marriage. That's marriage 101. I expect that by default.

[autumnnight]

The issue is trust. My original question had to do with am I the only one that thinks this story is BS? I think she is lying. She has changed her story many times before. It's been a nightmare. Thanks to some I have some new light shed onto what she says and will confer with her on it. I have only commented on other aspects just to make things clearer but it's always been about trust. Am I happy she slept with every guy who raised his hand? Nope. Will I ever? Nope. Will I find a way to go on? That's the plan.

 

The question as to what am I willing to offer up if she offers trust? I think that's absurd. I have alway offered trust. She shouldn't have to reward me for that and the same applies to her. Trust is the foundation of a good marriage. That's marriage 101. I expect that by default.

 

I understand what you mean by this....I think. But most women want to be actually loved and cherished. Has that been a part of your marriage?

[Thegameoflife]

OP, people gave you the answer to your question.

 

You're never going to get what you want from your wife. The reason is that the people who are always lied to are those who motivate others to lie to them. You've established that you will judge and dish out retribution if you don't hear the truth you want. Unless you offer tolerance, understanding, and forgiveness; you're never going to get the honest dialogue needed to repair your marriage.

[TaraMaiden2]

OP, people gave you the answer to your question.

 

You're never going to get what you want from your wife. The reason is that the people who are always lied to are those who motivate others to lie to them. You've established that you will judge and dish out retribution if you don't hear the truth you want. Unless you offer tolerance, understanding, and forgiveness; you're never going to get the honest dialogue needed to repair your marriage.

 

Very well put.

Unless you're willing to Let Go, repair and move on, you're going nowhere with this.

 

You will re-establish Trust when you afford her the respect and dignity of making her 100% believe that you can repair, and move on, without recriminations, accusations and disbelief.

 

She will lie to you because your manner towards her invites lies.

[deadelvis]

I understand what you are going through. You want the truth. But you must realize that there are certain personality types out there who aren't really capable of being honest, with you or with themselves. She's afraid to tell you the truth because you've reacted poorly to the things she already told you, and that made her afraid to confide in you. Sadly, she will probably never really come clean and tell you the "real truth".

 

I realize you are probably never going to leave her. I can sense that much from your wording. But the feeling of not trusting your partner has become too much for you to bear, which is why you are here, looking for advice. I empathize because I am in a similar situation... You want the truth. No matter how difficult the truth is, it's better to get it out in the open, deal with it and then move forward with a clean slate and a foundation of trust and honesty. I get it. Unfortunately, my partner, like yours, can't ever seem to just come forward and tell me the truth. She does something I like to call "the slow trickle of truth".

 

I've given up on playing detective and trying to figure out what she's been hiding. It was making me sick and it was destroying our relationship. I had to just accept that whatever the worst case scenario is that's been playing in your mind... it's probably true. If you can just accept it and find peace, your life will improve. And maybe someday when you've learned to accept your "whore of a wife", she will actually come forward and tell you the truth. And maybe the truth won't be nearly as bad as what you had assumed. But just accept that she will probably never tell you the truth.

 

I realize you are a person like me who expects accountability for ones actions, adherance to a moral code, and honesty in all things. Face it, that's not who your wife is. She probably won't cheat on you but she will always hide things from you. Accept it or it will eat you like a cancer inside. She has mental health issues and a low self esteem. You probably had good parents and a strong sense of morality growing up. She probably didn't. You have to just accept that she lies because she has emotional damage and it's not some intentional thing she's doing to destroy the relationship. She still loves you, and she probably wishes she could have the strength to just own her past choices and be honest with you, but she doesn't. She's a weaker person than you. You said that yourself. It doesn't make her bad. Try to look inside yourself and forgive her, not just for the things she's done, but for not being strong enough to tell you the truth. Try to find empathy and understanding. She lies to protect herself, to protect you, to protect the relationship and your children. Try not to be angry. A stronger person should always try to help those who are weaker, not look down on them. If you really love her, accept that she doesn't have the strength to be honest. She's got some problems, but you already know that. You don't need to know the truth to forgive someone. I realize it helps. Trust me. I know. But ultimately the choice to forgive is yours alone, just like her choice to lie is hers alone, and there's nothing you can do to force the truth out of her.

 

You have to trust her. If she betrays your trust in the future you can deal with it then. But even knowing that she lies... you still have to trust her. I know it sounds crazy, but I do it every day. And surprisingly... when you always trust your lying partner and "believe" all the BS they tell you it makes them actually less likely to lie. If you can free yourself from judgmental thoughts that will also help her open up. Also never asking for details or information about the topics in question will help restore trust in the rest of your lives. She will always have a few things she keeps from you, but in your heart you probably already know exactly what she's lied about, and you probably have a pretty good idea what the truth is. It's unfortunate that she holds onto those lies, but you shouldn't let it sit on your shoulders. Those lies (and her past) are her cross to bear, not yours. Good luck.

Edited July 20, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[sandylee1]

Not really, no.

 

I've slept with 2 guys that I didn't want to. It was when I was much younger. I felt pressured to do it. I did like the guys, but I didn't want to sleep with them at that point in time. I wanted to get to know them better, but they just kept pushing for it.

 

I was interested in a relationship with them , but after the extreme pressure I didn't want to see either of them again. I didn't enjoy it at all and I was angry with myself for doing it. I cut them both off after it happened.

 

So I see how it can happen.

 

Just read this back and need to clarify that it wasn't 2 guys at the same time, they were seperate occasions. It reads a bit like a threesome on reflection.

[AnotherSadSong]

I personally do not think a person's past sex life is anyone's business unless offered. You sound controlling. If you want a virgin go for a set up marriage with a virgin, Muslim...something like that.

 

 

If your relationship holds this much judgment and grudge then let it go. It is not healthy for either one.

[Radu]

You sound a little uptight, and I suspect that's affecting her ability to be honest with you.

 

To be clear, if I read this correctly, she's never actually cheated on you. She's just had relations prior to you and during your break that you don't approve of. (I think the only 'issue' she had during your break was the need for sexual satisfaction, which - news flash - women don't have to apologize for.)

 

BUT, I'll try to look at this from your POV, which is just that you have major incompatibilities here. Bc of that you should probably re-evaluate the marriage. Ask yourself honestly if you can live with her past and her sexual autonomy, and if you can't, do the both of you a favor and let her go.

 

OP, while i don't agree in full with this post, in spirit jen is quite correct.

 

I'd like to further add that your biggest problem is not the sex :

- she keeps lying to you

- you get upset but you do nothing constructive about it

- so in order to keep being the ppl pleaser and what not she keeps lying

 

What the enemy in reality is, is her low self-esteem.

I might get some flak over this, but her track record of sleeping with guys on 1st and 2nd date, together with the encounter during your breakup hints at her being weak willed and not really capable of imposing her will.

 

So get some IC time, for both her and you ...

You also need some IC, she technically did not cheat ... but she did lie.

[autumnnight]

There was a phrase that went something like "sleeping with every guy who raised his hand."

 

Was it specifically the man/men she had the ONS's with during the breakup, or has she slept with a high number of people throughout her life?

[SSJROMANCE]

I personally do not think a person's past sex life is anyone's business unless offered. You sound controlling. If you want a virgin go for a set up marriage with a virgin, Muslim...something like that.

 

 

If your relationship holds this much judgment and grudge then let it go. It is not healthy for either one.

 

 

You have a right to your opinion. If I ask you because I am looking for a match and you say exactly that then that's your right. I don't think we would be dating after that but that is your right. But if you lie to me now that becomes a big problem.

[SSJROMANCE]

OP, while i don't agree in full with this post, in spirit jen is quite correct.

 

I'd like to further add that your biggest problem is not the sex :

- she keeps lying to you

- you get upset but you do nothing constructive about it

- so in order to keep being the ppl pleaser and what not she keeps lying

 

What the enemy in reality is, is her low self-esteem.

I might get some flak over this, but her track record of sleeping with guys on 1st and 2nd date, together with the encounter during your breakup hints at her being weak willed and not really capable of imposing her will.

 

So get some IC time, for both her and you ...

You also need some IC, she technically did not cheat ... but she did lie.

 

 

Jen is wrong on one major point. She may not have to apologize for her past and for her breakup sex but I did ask her specific questions about her past when we first started dating and before we go back together. Had she told the truth about it I would have made different choices in life. But you see she DIDN'T answer truthfully to me and choose my destination in life for me. That is the key difference. Jen is coming from the fact that I never asked her about her past and I just found out about it later. That's not the case. She had an obligation to tell me the truth OR take the 5th.

[SSJROMANCE]

OP, people gave you the answer to your question.

 

You're never going to get what you want from your wife. The reason is that the people who are always lied to are those who motivate others to lie to them. You've established that you will judge and dish out retribution if you don't hear the truth you want. Unless you offer tolerance, understanding, and forgiveness; you're never going to get the honest dialogue needed to repair your marriage.

 

 

Isn't that sad. That's like saying people who break the law are never going to turn themselves in because they will be judged and given a sentence. So the county is accused of motivating these people to continue to break the law. That's what I'm hearing you say. What did the county ever do?

[TaraMaiden2]

Isn't that sad. That's like saying people who break the law are never going to turn themselves in because they will be judged and given a sentence.

 

That's not the same thing at all. For a start your wife isn't a criminal, and what you accuse her of is not on the statute books...

So you are Judge, Jury and executioner, huh? Your sense of personal entitlement is breathtaking....

So the county is accused of motivating these people to continue to break the law. That's what I'm hearing you say. What did the county ever do?

Well if my county ever acted the way you do, I'd move.....

[deadelvis]

Isn't that sad. That's like saying people who break the law are never going to turn themselves in because they will be judged and given a sentence. So the county is accused of motivating these people to continue to break the law. That's what I'm hearing you say. What did the county ever do?

 

I agree. Nobody can ever blame anyone else for their own dishonesty. It's the classic excuse. "It's your fault I (insert inexcusable behavior)!! If only you had (insert ongoing complaint about the relationship), then I wouldn't have been forced to (lie, cheat etc.)"

 

We make our own choices. Nobody ever forces anyone else to lie, cheat etc. Those are personal choices we each make.

 

She could have refused to answer.

 

I'm so sick of that excuse. "of course I lied. look how you reacted when I told you the truth..."

then I'm like "you crazy woman. I'm mad because you lied, not because I'm hearing the truth."

Edited July 17, 2015 by deadelvis

[Lois_Griffin]

If she is willing to jump into bed with a total stranger that quickly after a breakup what is she willing to do during marriage when the tough gets going?

But in all fairness, you already KNEW she had a habit of sleeping with strangers. You said before you married her, she had a long history of sleeping with men on the first or second dates. If she slept with you on your first or second date back when you started dating, then that was your FIRST clue. Unless you thought, like some guys do, that you were the FIRST one she'd ever done that with? (Not bloody likely).

 

Honestly? It just sounds like she reverted back to form the second she was 'single' during your split. Right back to sleeping with strangers. Of course she's not going to paint herself in a bad light and tell you anything except it was horrible and distasteful and she couldn't wait for him to leave (after 4 rounds, that is) and that it meant nothing and she was temporarily insane and blah blah blah.

 

I'm actually siding with you. You have every right on earth to be ticked off as hell for her BLATANT lying to you in order to get back together after your separation. Add to the fact that she's acted inappropriately since you've been married with her secret conversations with guys and God only knows what she's done that you DON'T know about, and I don't blame you at all for being mad as hell. Not at all.

[deadelvis]

there are two issues here.

 

1. She lied to you. This sucks. Not good. It can be resolved with time, patience and giving her the unequivocal trust that she hasn't earned. Be better than her and forgive. Rise above it.

 

2. She was slutty in the past. Do you really care about this? There's no correct answer to that question. If it really bothers you maybe look into "overcoming retroactive jealousy" and other topics like that. It's not difficult to get over. I freaked out when I found out my partner has been with a huge number of men, done crazy sex acts, sex for money, threesomes with men... etc. It was really painful for about 2 months. Now it doesn't even bother me. You can get over that if you want.

 

But the lying issue requires a whole different level of Buddha strength and compassion if you're going to swallow that pill.