Loose Wife?

[autumnnight]

I think I asked this before, but it is a foundation question I don't think you answered:

 

Do you love your wife?

 

IMO, if the answer to that cannot be a very simple yes without paragraphs of qualifiers, then there really isn't any point in continuing the marriage, even with kids. Because kids are learning all sorts of things from watching you.

[Poutrew]

Unlike many posters here, I am of the firm belief that past sexual history does play a part in the present. The old saying "You are what you eat" is true. Your wife lied to you about her past. Cold bloodedly. Why? Because, being a sexually promiscuous person, she saw the value in snagging a virgin man - someone who she could have never captured being honest. She was literally, on the wrong side of the tracks. Question is, what do you do about it? If she lied about something so fundamentally important to you at the very beginning, what else did / does she lie about? If you believe she has been a good wife, perhaps you should do nothing. However, with the fact that your wife is going to have opportunities to cheat in the future with her new job, at the very least, I'd keep my eyes open. Trust, but verify.

[SSJROMANCE]

I guess I forgot to mention one key evidence why I feel my wife is lying about the one night she had sex while broken up. For two years prior she had been seeing a counselor and continued for about 3 more years. For two years she poured her heart out to this counselor trying to figure out why she allowed certain things to happen. A big part of that was sex and her past. Well for two years she had been going every week. Then this one night stand happen and claimed it was horrific and didn't want the guy there and on and on. If that was the case why didn't u mention this to your counselor? She never did. She claimed to be going for help for the very reason that happened that night and she doesn't mention it? Isn't that like going to AA falling off the bandwagon and continuing to go as if everything was going as planned? Wouldn't you think her counselor would have wanted to know and wouldn't you think you needed to let him know if u were serious about getting help? Just another reason I don't believe her story.

[Snaggletooth]

I guess I forgot to mention one key evidence why I feel my wife is lying about the one night she had sex while broken up. For two years prior she had been seeing a counselor and continued for about 3 more years. For two years she poured her heart out to this counselor trying to figure out why she allowed certain things to happen. A big part of that was sex and her past. Well for two years she had been going every week. Then this one night stand happen and claimed it was horrific and didn't want the guy there and on and on. If that was the case why didn't u mention this to your counselor? She never did. She claimed to be going for help for the very reason that happened that night and she doesn't mention it? Isn't that like going to AA falling off the bandwagon and continuing to go as if everything was going as planned? Wouldn't you think her counselor would have wanted to know and wouldn't you think you needed to let him know if u were serious about getting help? Just another reason I don't believe her story.

 

Man, on the night in question she was a willing participant and wanted it. She may have regretted the next morning but during the moment, for whatever reason, she wanted it. She didn't necessarily want him, but the night she wanted at that moment in time.

 

She had free will and choice. She still has free will and choice. She is not the victim of players or "animals". She got what she wanted at the moment in time. Same as the dude did. What she got may not be sexual pleasure, that may not be her motivator, but she got what she wanted. Its a 50/50 deal. Her choice.

 

If she didn't want that night to happen, it wouldn't have happened. She doesn't need to tell you that for you to know it. You already know it.

 

What's done is done. It sucks. Its sh*t. For all of you. You. Her. The kids. If she could go back in time and erase it, I'm sure she would.

 

She regrets it. She is also trying to protect your feelings.

 

Your reaction is understandable and as I said before, you do not deserve the cr*p you have received on this forum. This place is Jerry Springer. People want to boo and hiss. To point and judge. To project. To assume. To niggle. Cowards behind a screen. You are their entertainment. Their cheap shot. Their flattering mirror. Their ugly that does not reflect back into their eyes. Their fear and desire.

 

This situation is going to chew you up for a while yet. Can you get past it, though? With time? With patience? With understanding?

 

Can you accept that she wanted that night without the need for her to say it? Does she have to say it? Can you just know it and live with it without it being said? Can you hold her accountable and say no more?

 

You were the last, you know? She stopped at you. You were better than anything that went before. She changed, for you.....

 

It's all in the eye of the beholder. Can you see your wife in a new light and love her for what you now see? Can you see the hollow person that needed to feel desired. Can you see the tragic beauty in that? Can you see the bast*rd innocence in that? Can you see the rued corruption in that? The weakness and strength in that? The bittersweet poetry in that?

 

Can you walk through this fire with your concern being for her?

 

Can you see the woman she wishes she was? The woman she wishes she never was?

 

Can you be the man she wants? The man you will one day, in the future, wish you once were? Wise without experience or regret.

 

One day you will both be dead. All you are is walking, talking, squawking worm food. Part of natures cycle. Can you love each other without being eaten by the before? Can you let the eventual trivialities rest?

Edited July 18, 2015 by Snaggletooth

[autumnnight]

Can you see your wife in a new light and love her for what you now see?

 

A variation of this question is one I have asked repeatedly. I even asked flat out "do you love your wife" with no answer.

 

I can only assume that means the answer is no.

 

How sad to be in a marriage where you do not love your wife, and how sad to be a wife whose husband does not love her

[PrettyEmily77]

A variation of this question is one I have asked repeatedly. I even asked flat out "do you love your wife" with no answer.

 

I can only assume that means the answer is no.

 

How sad to be in a marriage where you do not love your wife, and how sad to be a wife whose husband does not love her

 

To be fair to the OP for a minute, it's not easy to answer this question right now, when he's at his most upset. Not saying yes doesn't mean he's saying no. He's on the fence, understandably at this stage. Doesn't look like he wanted a pure woman from the outset. He knew some of her past and accepted her for what she said she was. Makes sense he'd be ****ed off at the lies and breach of trust as much as his wife's actions. She chose to deceive him, probs because he meant that much to her, and as Snaggletooth said, it sucks for them all.

[spanz1]

sounds like you married someone who is bipolar. unfortunately, trying to keep a bipolar person monogamous is nearly impossible. they will seek out other partners just to validate their attractiveness.

 

 

I suppose you have to decide if having this unstable person around your 4 children is good for the children. And if you do divorce, can you get sole custody, or will she have the kids most of the time? You being there is definitely a calming influence. And you can lay down some strict boundaries and TRY to get her to adhere to them.

 

 

and being bipolar, it is not that unusual that she was able to convincingly lie to you about her past. that is what bipolars do!

 

 

One thing that might make some sense is for her, during one of her lucid moments, to give her counselor permission to discuss her with you. that way you two can tag-team her about her issues and fidelity....really try to come up with some coping strategies for her to lead a semi-normal life from here on out...

 

 

good luck man!

[elaine567]

sounds like you married someone who is bipolar. !

 

...and what on earth gives you that impression?

 

smh.

[autumnnight]

sounds like you married someone who is bipolar. unfortunately, trying to keep a bipolar person monogamous is nearly impossible. they will seek out other partners just to validate their attractiveness.

 

 

I suppose you have to decide if having this unstable person around your 4 children is good for the children. And if you do divorce, can you get sole custody, or will she have the kids most of the time? You being there is definitely a calming influence. And you can lay down some strict boundaries and TRY to get her to adhere to them.

 

 

and being bipolar, it is not that unusual that she was able to convincingly lie to you about her past. that is what bipolars do!

 

 

One thing that might make some sense is for her, during one of her lucid moments, to give her counselor permission to discuss her with you. that way you two can tag-team her about her issues and fidelity....really try to come up with some coping strategies for her to lead a semi-normal life from here on out...

 

 

good luck man!

 

And where again did you receive your medical degree, and when did you examine this patient?

 

This is ridiculous.

[SSJROMANCE]

...and what on earth gives you that impression?

 

smh.

 

 

When she started counseling she was diagnosed with bi-polar and put on meds. What surprised me just the other day she said she thinks she was misdiagnosed something I never heard her say before. So I don't know - so hard to figure it out because she is all over the board.

 

We had a deep rooted talk last night. She continued to defend herself saying she didn't want any of it and was scared and horrified about the whole ordeal. She said something she never said before - that she needed to be accepted at that point in her life. Being at her low she needed acceptance from not just him but everybody so because of this sick state she allowed herself to go along it because she couldn't take anymore criticism even from someone who she says preyed on her weak state and wouldn't take no for an answer.

 

It's all crazy to me but I guess I'm going to let this soak in.

[anika99]

sounds like you married someone who is bipolar. unfortunately, trying to keep a bipolar person monogamous is nearly impossible. they will seek out other partners just to validate their attractiveness.

 

 

I suppose you have to decide if having this unstable person around your 4 children is good for the children. And if you do divorce, can you get sole custody, or will she have the kids most of the time? You being there is definitely a calming influence. And you can lay down some strict boundaries and TRY to get her to adhere to them.

 

 

and being bipolar, it is not that unusual that she was able to convincingly lie to you about her past. that is what bipolars do!

 

 

One thing that might make some sense is for her, during one of her lucid moments, to give her counselor permission to discuss her with you. that way you two can tag-team her about her issues and fidelity....really try to come up with some coping strategies for her to lead a semi-normal life from here on out...

 

 

good luck man!

 

 

Yes please tell us how you arrived at that diagnosis based on the little information the OP has given us. We know she had lots of premarital sex which was many years ago and that during a break up she had a one night stand which was also a long long time ago. I too had lots and lots of sex in my youth and engaged in a couple of one night stands about 20 years ago. I must be bipolar too.

[anika99]

When she started counseling she was diagnosed with bi-polar and put on meds. What surprised me just the other day she said she thinks she was misdiagnosed something I never heard her say before. So I don't know - so hard to figure it out because she is all over the board.

 

We had a deep rooted talk last night. She continued to defend herself saying she didn't want any of it and was scared and horrified about the whole ordeal. She said something she never said before - that she needed to be accepted at that point in her life. Being at her low she needed acceptance from not just him but everybody so because of this sick state she allowed herself to go along it because she couldn't take anymore criticism even from someone who she says preyed on her weak state and wouldn't take no for an answer.

 

It's all crazy to me but I guess I'm going to let this soak in.

 

 

What your wife says isn't all that far fetched. Sometimes women will engage in sex when what they are really after is just some love and affection. If your wife was in pain and feeling rejected, which is likely considering you had broken up with her, then it's perfectly possible she turned to the OM for some comfort which led to sex. When I was very

young I too sometimes used sex to get love or comfort. It was immature and misguided and thankfully I outgrew that. Possibly your wife reacted impulsively and immaturely at the time because she was young and immature but people do grow and learn.

[SSJROMANCE]

What your wife says isn't all that far fetched. Sometimes women will engage in sex when what they are really after is just some love and affection. If your wife was in pain and feeling rejected, which is likely considering you had broken up with her, then it's perfectly possible she turned to the OM for some comfort which led to sex. When I was very

young I too sometimes used sex to get love or comfort. It was immature and misguided and thankfully I outgrew that. Possibly your wife reacted impulsively and immaturely at the time because she was young and immature but people do grow and learn.

 

Thanks for the feedback. That could be one possibility but I more or less asked her about this. She swears she never wanted him didn't want to be around him she swears when he came to the door she was screaming inside for him to leave she pretty much was screaming inside the whole time so she says. If that is true then she was so F'ed up in the head that even though she didn't want him there she didn't want to hurt his feelings didn't want to be critized and needed his acceptance. As crazy as this sounds and hard for me to accept that seems to be the common theme. The problem for me is she seemed to have a pattern of being cheap. Always a different excuse why she did this and why she did that. Her counselor said there are always layer involved. In other words it's not usually one thing that allowed her to accept him. It was most likely a layer of issues she had.

[TaraMaiden2]

So maybe you could explain why you are prolonging both your agonies and not divorcing her....?

Edited July 20, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[autumnnight]

 

So maybe you could explain why you are prolonging both your agonies and not divorcing her....?

 

 

 

I believe that some men stay married to women they do not like, love, respect, who have betrayed them or who they believe has betrayed them for the following reasons:

 

Control

A feeling of superior righteousness

Social standing/avoiding embarrassment

If they are divorced, their wife will be divorced too, and possibly able to find love and happiness

 

No one voluntarily stays in misery unless there is some secondary gain. And as for children, I wonder what a man's son is learning about women when he grows up watching his father despise his mother.

Edited July 20, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[William]

Folks, it appears that, in my absence, another moderator did some cleanup but neglected to place a moderation directive to advise members of our guidelines officially....

 

1. Stay on topic

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4. When you view me or another moderator doing these directives, don't think we disappear. This post places the thread on my watch list and I or another moderator stops by regularly and moderates or suspends members who choose to ignore moderation. Fortunately, due to the lateness of this directive, many postings escaped that fate.

 

Thanks for reading and on-topic and respectful discussion is appreciated.

[Cephalopod]

One of the things that made it easier for me to break up with my cheating ex-wife was something I found out from her ex-best friend (whose husband my ex had one of her affairs with).

 

Right after filing for my divorce I met this woman one day and she dished the dirt on something my ex-wife did long ago when we were engaged. We had actually gotten engaged then she broke it off with me because she said she wasn't ready to settle down. Well, the same week she broke up with me she hooked up with a guy at her work and spent a week in Mexico with him, screwing and partying. Then when she got back she ended up sleeping with eleven (11) other guys in the span of about a month. This woman was actually with my ex while she was trolling for some of these guys, and my ex was bragging to her about all the men she was hooking up with.

 

When my ex found out I had started dating another chick, she panicked and called me up one night begging for us to get back together, that I was her "one true love" and how she couldn't live without me, blah, blah, blah. Yeah right. The rest is sad history.

 

My story is not to dissuade you from dating women with highly sexual pasts. I know many married women who were promiscuous as hell before marriage but who never (to my knowledge) have cheated on their husbands. But had I known what my ex was doing during that month and a half that we had broken up I would have never married her. Yes, she and I were "officially" broke up during the time she was out throwing her legs up for every guy who called her pretty, so technically what she was doing could not be considered cheating. But she was devious in her reasons for breaking up with me, and that is what hurts. She wasn't not wanting not to marry me, she just wanted a break to go out and bang as many guys as she could before we tied the knot; so she broke up with me on a false pretense. And I, being young and dumb, allowed myself to be manipulated.

 

Just don't let your wife manipulate you. Yes some women are after love and affection when they screw around like your wife did, but some women, like my ex, just wanted to screw as many guys as she could in a short a time span as possible.

 

A ho is a ho, and they are hard to change. Make sure your wife is not one of these.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Cephalopod

[SSJROMANCE]

I believe that some men stay married to women they do not like, love, respect, who have betrayed them or who they believe has betrayed them for the following reasons:

 

Control

A feeling of superior righteousness

Social standing/avoiding embarrassment

If they are divorced, their wife will be divorced too, and possibly able to find love and happiness

 

No one voluntarily stays in misery unless there is some secondary gain. And as for children, I wonder what a man's son is learning about women when he grows up watching his father despise his mother.

 

What is in a woman's mind when she doesn't leave?

 

Do u want to take a stab as to why my wife slept around when she says she never wanted or desired sex? U want to take a stab as to why she allowed a guy she just met to take control of her and make her give it up when all she said she wanted was for this guy to go away?

Edited July 24, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[SSJROMANCE]

One of the things that made it easier for me to break up with my cheating ex-wife was something I found out from her ex-best friend (whose husband my ex had one of her affairs with).

 

Right after filing for my divorce I met this woman one day and she dished the dirt on something my ex-wife did long ago when we were engaged. We had actually gotten engaged then she broke it off with me because she said she wasn't ready to settle down. Well, the same week she broke up with me she hooked up with a guy at her work and spent a week in Mexico with him, screwing and partying. Then when she got back she ended up sleeping with eleven (11) other guys in the span of about a month. This woman was actually with my ex while she was trolling for some of these guys, and my ex was bragging to her about all the men she was hooking up with.

 

When my ex found out I had started dating another chick, she panicked and called me up one night begging for us to get back together, that I was her "one true love" and how she couldn't live without me, blah, blah, blah. Yeah right. The rest is sad history.

 

My story is not to dissuade you from dating women with highly sexual pasts. I know many married women who were promiscuous as hell before marriage but who never (to my knowledge) have cheated on their husbands. But had I known what my ex was doing during that month and a half that we had broken up I would have never married her. Yes, she and I were "officially" broke up during the time she was out throwing her legs up for every guy who called her pretty, so technically what she was doing could not be considered cheating. But she was devious in her reasons for breaking up with me, and that is what hurts. She wasn't not wanting not to marry me, she just wanted a break to go out and bang as many guys as she could before we tied the knot; so she broke up with me on a false pretense. And I, being young and dumb, allowed myself to be manipulated.

 

Just don't let your wife manipulate you. Yes some women are after love and affection when they screw around like your wife did, but some women, like my ex, just wanted to screw as many guys as she could in a short a time span as possible.

 

A ho is a ho, and they are hard to change. Make sure your wife is not one of these.

 

Man I'm sorry. That's why I tell myself it can always be worse. I wonder if your ex would have told u any of this had u not talked with her friend. I will always suspect there is more to my wife's past. She said I know it all but she said that like 30 times and each time more and more came out. So I have accepted the fact that I will never know about the really really shameful things she did in her life that she has locked up forever and maybe at this point rightfully so.

[autumnnight]

Man I'm sorry. That's why I tell myself it can always be worse. I wonder if your ex would have told u any of this had u not talked with her friend. I will always suspect there is more to my wife's past. She said I know it all but she said that like 30 times and each time more and more came out. So I have accepted the fact that I will never know about the really really shameful things she did in her life that she has locked up forever and maybe at this point rightfully so.

 

Forgive me if I'm asking something you've already talked about, but have you ever thought about a polygraph? Do you think she would be willing to take one?

[Cephalopod]

Man I'm sorry. That's why I tell myself it can always be worse. I wonder if your ex would have told u any of this had u not talked with her friend. I will always suspect there is more to my wife's past. She said I know it all but she said that like 30 times and each time more and more came out. So I have accepted the fact that I will never know about the really really shameful things she did in her life that she has locked up forever and maybe at this point rightfully so.

 

And I'm not necessarily saying that any woman has a responsibility to tell her husband about all her dark secrets and all the things she did in her past. I do think we men need to be secure enough in ourselves to handle the fact that that the woman we love has done things in her past that she may not want to share or ever do with us. That's just the cold hard truth, and if a guy cannot handle it he needs to either find a virgin or go without.

 

In my heart, I feel like my ex-wife cheated me when she broke up with me and went on her porn queen trip. Not "cheated on me", but she cheated me -- by taking away my right to make an informed decision as to whether or not I should get back together with her by not fessing up to what she had done while we were apart.

 

There are a lot of women here who will probably say it was none of my business what she did, but I feel she manipulated me by dumping me, while knowing full well she would ask me to get back together with her afterwards and knowing I would take the bait. It is that cold, calculating manipulation that hurts the most. I have never gotten over that.

 

I hope that is not what your partner is doing to you. Sorry SSJ, I did not intend to threadjack, but your story hits close to home for me.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Cephalopod

[autumnnight]

What is in a woman's mind when she doesn't leave?

 

Do u want to take a stab as to why my wife slept around when she says she never wanted or desired sex? U want to take a stab as to why she allowed a guy she just met to take control of her and make her give it up when all she said she wanted was for this guy to go away?

 

I'm going to change the order a bit and guess. I admit readily that these are just wild guesses because i do not know your wife.

 

I think she may have been hurt after the breakup and wanted to know she was still attractive or desireable to someone? Maybe she was vulnerable and angry and some of it was insecurity and some of it was anger and hurt? I think she probably WASN'T thinking. I think at the time she may have wanted to ego boost or reassurance but not the sex. Or she may have actually wanted the physical contact at the time but has lied to everyone including herself because of the price of admitting that?

 

Note, none of the above justifies lying. Just my guesses as to why she did what she did.

 

As to why she doesn't leave? I don't think she has enough self, esteem, or person hood left. I believe she thinks that she is just as much of a piece of dirt as you think she is, so she doesn't deserve to leave. I think she hates herself. I thinks she is a beaten down, dead shell of a woman.

[jwi71]

OP,

 

What is the end game here? What are you hoping to achieve?

 

If you want the "truth" - forget it, you'll never know. Even if she told you the "absolute truth" right now you wouldn't believe her. So what's the point there? You want it but will be incapable of realizing it. By that I mean, the trust is zero and no matter what she says, truth or not, your doubts (rightfully) will persist. So there is no end to that conversation nor an end to that doubt. So what are you hoping to achieve with it given there is no practical solution for you? My advice, on that, drop it.

 

The other issue I will address is the lack of trust. Again, I don't think any really faults you for not having that. The question is do you want to work at regaining it? It takes two to rebuild trust yet only one to break it. Fair? No, but so what - life ain't fair.

 

Are you willing to work it? If not, file for D. No one will blame you.

 

Can you let the past go? If not, file for D. No one will blame you.

 

Can you "tone down" the anger and aggression? If not, file for D. No one will blame you.

 

Can you work towards positive change - even if it seems unfair? If not, file for D. No one will blame you.

 

But to stay as is and rail as and do nothing - you're to blame. You are the master of you. No one else. Don't like your life? Change it.

 

Simple.

 

So...what are you trying to achieve?

[SSJROMANCE]

And I'm not necessarily saying that any woman has a responsibility to tell her husband about all her dark secrets and all the things she did in her past. I do think we men need to be secure enough in ourselves to handle the fact that that the woman we love has done things in her past that she may not want to share or ever do with us. That's just the cold hard truth, and if a guy cannot handle it he needs to either find a virgin or go without.

 

In my heart, I feel like my ex-wife cheated me when she broke up with me and went on her porn queen trip. Not "cheated on me", but she cheated me -- by taking away my right to make an informed decision as to whether or not I should get back together with her by not fessing up to what she had done while we were apart.

 

There are a lot of women here who will probably say it was none of my business what she did, but I feel she manipulated me by dumping me, while knowing full well she would ask me to get back together with her afterwards and knowing I would take the bait. It is that cold, calculating manipulation that hurts the most. I have never gotten over that.

 

I hope that is not what your partner is doing to you. Sorry SSJ, I did not intend to threadjack, but your story hits close to home for me.

 

 

It is every bit of your right to know her past if you ask. You are entitled to an honest answer. Who is she to dictate your future dreams based on lies? She can always take the 5th in which then you can decide what you want to do. Ignore those women who say it's none of your business. I'd hate to imagine their past for those who express that opinion. I'm sure lot's of them are pissed off about it too. Your case is seven worse. She had bad intentions. At least from what I am told my wife didn't have bad intentions and I believe her. I just don't believe what she says her thoughts were and what actually happened. One can then argue why do I even believe her at all. And let me also point out it does feel like her cheating on you. I think the feelings are pretty close as if you guys were still together and she cheated.

[SSJROMANCE]

OP,

 

What is the end game here? What are you hoping to achieve?

 

If you want the "truth" - forget it, you'll never know. Even if she told you the "absolute truth" right now you wouldn't believe her. So what's the point there? You want it but will be incapable of realizing it. By that I mean, the trust is zero and no matter what she says, truth or not, your doubts (rightfully) will persist. So there is no end to that conversation nor an end to that doubt. So what are you hoping to achieve with it given there is no practical solution for you? My advice, on that, drop it.

 

The other issue I will address is the lack of trust. Again, I don't think any really faults you for not having that. The question is do you want to work at regaining it? It takes two to rebuild trust yet only one to break it. Fair? No, but so what - life ain't fair.

 

Are you willing to work it? If not, file for D. No one will blame you.

 

Can you let the past go? If not, file for D. No one will blame you.

 

Can you "tone down" the anger and aggression? If not, file for D. No one will blame you.

 

Can you work towards positive change - even if it seems unfair? If not, file for D. No one will blame you.

 

But to stay as is and rail as and do nothing - you're to blame. You are the master of you. No one else. Don't like your life? Change it.

 

Simple.

 

So...what are you trying to achieve?

 

 

Trying to achieve understanding. But in order to achieve that I need the truth. You are right in that I may never get the truth and it's been so long I don't think sometimes she even knows as she is all over the board. Understanding why it happened will also help understand how to prevent it again in the future.