Both feet in

[katielee]

In recovery, is it important to have both feet completely in? I know the first few months are a wait and see type thing. But after a year, two, three, is waiting for the other shoe to drop limbo? I think it's possible to be committed, vulnerable and intimate, but yet still hold something back.

 

I won't trust anyone 100% again, but does one have to have that for a marriage to work? I can't do it, I got too hurt. Once - ok, twice - just can't do it. But maybe that safety thing needs to come from inside ME, not wondering about HIM. Yet, when you've had to discover everything on your own, it's really hard to make your way back to being comfortable.

 

I guess I'm rambling.. Maybe I just need to make a decision to decide to settle for less than ideal. It would sure make things easier.

[No Limit]

100% trust will never return. The goal of R is to rescue a marriage and avoid painful triggers.

[MuddyFootprints]

No, the goal is not to avoid triggers. It is to be safe enough as a couple to address them and confront them honestly and openly.

 

Op, I will contribute further once I have a chance to organise my thoughts on this better.

[ladydesigner]

Yes katielee I am in a similar position. The first time we were in R after Dday 1 I jumped in with both feet, now after False R I am keeping one foot out. I'm not sure it is necessary to have both feet in, but currently it feels like my M may just be limping along.

 

My WH for one does not help me get through triggers and he can't understand why I still have them so until my WH 'get's it' there is no way I can even dip the other foot into the water.

[RightThere]

In recovery, is it important to have both feet completely in? I know the first few months are a wait and see type thing. But after a year, two, three, is waiting for the other shoe to drop limbo? I think it's possible to be committed, vulnerable and intimate, but yet still hold something back.

 

My opinion, yes, you need to be 100% in if you are in year 2, 3, or whatever.

 

At this point, if you want to be in the relationship, you need to be vulnerable and accept the fact that they may cheat on you again. You need to do everything you can to affair-proof your marriage. But keeping only one foot in so you can run at the first sign of trouble only sets things up to fail.

[Mr. Lucky]

At this point, if you want to be in the relationship, you need to be vulnerable and accept the fact that they may cheat on you again. You need to do everything you can to affair-proof your marriage. But keeping only one foot in so you can run at the first sign of trouble only sets things up to fail.

 

Well said. Otherwise, why stay in a relationship that undermines the most important reason for being together? Closed off so you won't be hurt also screens out the love you need to sustain a life together.

 

If I was going to stay after infidelity, I'd want my marriage to be about the recovery, not the affair...

 

Mr. Lucky

[katielee]

My opinion, yes, you need to be 100% in if you are in year 2, 3, or whatever.

 

At this point, if you want to be in the relationship, you need to be vulnerable and accept the fact that they may cheat on you again. You need to do everything you can to affair-proof your marriage. But keeping only one foot in so you can run at the first sign of trouble only sets things up to fail.

 

I am as vulnerable as I can be, knowing he may cheat on me and I can't stop it. We've affair proofed. Yet there is a closeness that is missing. There is a side to him I didn't know he had - I'm sure he can say the same thing about me. But I feel his second affair was vindictive. And his first affair was not.

[velvette]

In recovery, is it important to have both feet completely in? I know the first few months are a wait and see type thing. But after a year, two, three, is waiting for the other shoe to drop limbo? I think it's possible to be committed, vulnerable and intimate, but yet still hold something back.

 

I won't trust anyone 100% again, but does one have to have that for a marriage to work? I can't do it, I got too hurt. Once - ok, twice - just can't do it. But maybe that safety thing needs to come from inside ME, not wondering about HIM. Yet, when you've had to discover everything on your own, it's really hard to make your way back to being comfortable.

 

I guess I'm rambling.. Maybe I just need to make a decision to decide to settle for less than ideal. It would sure make things easier.

 

 

I don't think it is about settling for less than ideal.

 

 

Its about accepting reality.

 

 

You have simply learned what you should have known or been taught all along.

 

 

We are all human. We all have the capacity to cheat.

 

 

You yourself could cheat again. You are less likely than most given what you have been through, but the right confluence of events could present a test for you in the future. There is simply no way you can guarantee you wouldn't cheat imo. Because you cant forsee what that confluence of events might be.

 

 

Being taught or believing or thinking you learned that any human being might not fail/betray you through infidelity or some other means is just magical thinking.

 

 

Human behavior is only as good as the resources we bring to the challenges that confront us. Sometimes our resources can be overwhelmed and that applies to all of us.

 

 

So yes you need to be both feet in. While addressing what could happen and how you will guard against it. At the same time, you have to acknowledge that despite your best efforts failure may occur.

 

 

Its scary and the only way to overcome that fear is to be sure that we develop our own personal resources so that we are able to be resilient and address adversity whether its infidelity or something else when/if it occurs.

 

 

There is no guarantee that other people will not hurt us, there never was. The only difference pre and post affair is that you know this for sure now. It was always true. Nothing really has changed about the world, only about you.

[flowergirl14]

Like you my h never gave me the whole truth so I always had one foot in and one out. Low and behold my h is cheating again. I think its a defense mechanism on the bs. Had my wh said this is what happened I would have been much more likely to be both feet in. At the same time, when your within 2 years of dday I think its reasonable to not be totally in R. It takes time to process an affair and figure out what you want. What you think and want in the beginning will evolve and change.

[lovinDKT3]

My BH has only recently (claimed) fully committed to recovery after some sticky situations. I think he had good intentions to start with, and he wanted it. He has had a hard time letting me in, he has a need to be in control of his emotions he does it by holding back.

 

I know he loves me, I dont know that he truly feels this is what he wants. For my part I want the marriage we had before my affair, I know everyone says it can never be or what we were ended in the affair. It was honestly a good marriage, I know a lot has happened. Full trust will never return, but I feel we can make this a stronger relationship if he will open himself up. I know he is scared (he will be upset for me outting him about that), and I know asking him to make this leap of faith is alot.

 

Im in this 100%, im waiting for him to meet me there. My question is when is it time to let go?

Edited July 17, 2015 by lovinDKT3

[nightmare01]

I think the one that needs to be in with both feet is the WS, not the BS.

 

If the WS wants to recover the relationship they can't hold anything back - because their job is to lay their life completely for the BS and do everything.. more than everything, they should be actively searching for ways to show they sincerely wants the BS and to convince the BS that they are safe.

 

Regardless of what the WS does the BS will probably never completely trust the WS again - and they shouldn't. The BS just needs to trust the WS enough to want to stay. The WS needs to accept this fact, and accept it as a consequence of what they did.

[katielee]

I think we are both 100% committed to the marriage, but both of us want the past to be different. I'm trying to reframe it so that we can be grateful of the growth going through all this has brought. We didn't really have a cruddy marriage before. I wish I could be more "we can do this" instead of "this is better than the alternative" and be excited about that.

We have gone through a lot and are still together, and have a good marriage. I'm not sure why the pain is still so very present. There is a sadness to us, even though we have many positive experiences. Maybe with more time it'll get better.

[RightThere]

But I feel his second affair was vindictive. And his first affair was not.

 

So did you have 2 different D-Days? Or did you find out about both affairs at the same time?

 

Because I can relate to being burned twice (or actually more than twice) and getting both feet back in is MUCH more difficult.

 

Although my answer doesn't change, I can't say my timeline is as applicable. 2 years out from a second betrayal is probably not enough time to feel like being all in on your relationship.

 

However your tone seems to feel like this relationship is more "It's better than the alternative." I could be wrong, but I know I've been there and it's hard to see past the end of your nose.

[nightmare01]

I think we are both 100% committed to the marriage, but both of us want the past to be different. I'm trying to reframe it so that we can be grateful of the growth going through all this has brought. We didn't really have a cruddy marriage before. I wish I could be more "we can do this" instead of "this is better than the alternative" and be excited about that.

We have gone through a lot and are still together, and have a good marriage. I'm not sure why the pain is still so very present. There is a sadness to us, even though we have many positive experiences. Maybe with more time it'll get better.

 

My WW and I have a good marriage now. I wouldn't say it's better than it was before. We've grown sure, but we would have done that without her affair. I think we would be in a much better place had the affair not happened. But it did, and for me it's about making the best of a very bad situation.

 

I think that I will always feel some pain about our past, and sadness too. I will always resent what she did, it was unjustified and wrong. But we remain compatible and get along well. We are good together. Our marriage is good - probably not as good as it could have been.. but as they say.. it is what it is.

[Bittersweetie]

Katielee,

 

My story...

 

About a year and a half after d-day (I'm a fWW), I was thinking about stuff and realized that I was still holding a small part of me back from my H. Not because I wanted to leave, but because I was afraid he would still leave me, and I thought it would be safer for me if I kept a small part not attached to him.

 

I wondered if that small part was holding us and/or me back. So I made the decision to be 100% in, be completely vulnerable, all of it. Because I'd only been giving 99%, not all, and what kind of relationship would we have if we didn't give it all?

 

My H must've thought I was nuts. It was late one night and I walked into the living room and said, "You don't have to agree, or answer, but I want you to know, I am all in with us."

 

It was like a weight lifted off me. Yes, he could've still decided to divorce me, and it would've hurt. It would've been a consequence of my own actions though, and I know that I had given it my complete all.

 

In reality, I think it helped us. I believe after my all-in confession he also let go of that last part. It wasn't long after this that we started talking seriously about trying for a baby. Which we had, 2.5 years after d-day.

 

One has to be vulnerable in a relationship. Yes, he is vulnerable to me, to the fact I could have another A. I am vulnerable to him, as he could change his mind at any time and decide he no longer wants to be with me. Yet every day we actively choose to be with each other and talk about stuff and let that vulnerability show. We communicate better and relate better than we did before my A. But like I've said before, I wish we could've gotten to this point without the pain I caused.

 

Hope this helps,

BSW

[RightThere]

My H must've thought I was nuts. It was late one night and I walked into the living room and said, "You don't have to agree, or answer, but I want you to know, I am all in with us."

 

I can tell you as a BS who went through fake reconciliation and some real reconciliation, this is exactly what I needed to hear from my WW.

 

Sadly she did what you did previously and kept a part of herself back. The reasons are irrelevant, but I know once you appeared vulnerable to your H, he knew you were offering him everything left that you had.

 

Glad to read a success story!

[katielee]

So did you have 2 different D-Days? Or did you find out about both affairs at the same time?

 

I confessed February 2010

I caught him January 2012 and April 2012 - different women.

[katielee]

Katielee,

 

My story...

 

About a year and a half after d-day (I'm a fWW), I was thinking about stuff and realized that I was still holding a small part of me back from my H. Not because I wanted to leave, but because I was afraid he would still leave me, and I thought it would be safer for me if I kept a small part not attached to him.

 

I wondered if that small part was holding us and/or me back. So I made the decision to be 100% in, be completely vulnerable, all of it. Because I'd only been giving 99%, not all, and what kind of relationship would we have if we didn't give it all?

 

My H must've thought I was nuts. It was late one night and I walked into the living room and said, "You don't have to agree, or answer, but I want you to know, I am all in with us."

 

It was like a weight lifted off me. Yes, he could've still decided to divorce me, and it would've hurt. It would've been a consequence of my own actions though, and I know that I had given it my complete all.

 

In reality, I think it helped us. I believe after my all-in confession he also let go of that last part. It wasn't long after this that we started talking seriously about trying for a baby. Which we had, 2.5 years after d-day.

 

One has to be vulnerable in a relationship. Yes, he is vulnerable to me, to the fact I could have another A. I am vulnerable to him, as he could change his mind at any time and decide he no longer wants to be with me. Yet every day we actively choose to be with each other and talk about stuff and let that vulnerability show. We communicate better and relate better than we did before my A. But like I've said before, I wish we could've gotten to this point without the pain I caused.

 

Hope this helps,

BSW

 

thank you. My holding back has to do with mistrust from his affairs. Believe me, I was 100% in after confessing to my affair.

 

I have also told him of a need of mine that he won't agree to. We both have sacrificed enough. But it feels like I'm still sacrificing and there is no resolution to it that wouldn't result in resentment from either side.

Edited July 17, 2015 by katielee
added a paragraph.

[RightThere]

I have also told him of a need of mine that he won't agree to. We both have sacrificed enough.

 

Then maybe you are just delaying the inevitable.

 

I know with my STBXW for a while during reconciliation, we were kinda waiting for the other one to eventually throw in the towel. That way, I'm not the bad guy because called it quits first.

 

After a while, I just knew she wasn't going to be fully into reconciling so I pulled the plug. It was a huge weight off for both of us. And I didn't feel like the bad guy at all.

[merrmeade]

In recovery, is it important to have both feet completely in? I know the first few months are a wait and see type thing. But after a year, two, three, is waiting for the other shoe to drop limbo? I think it's possible to be committed, vulnerable and intimate, but yet still hold something back.

 

I won't trust anyone 100% again, but does one have to have that for a marriage to work? I can't do it, I got too hurt. Once - ok, twice - just can't do it. But maybe that safety thing needs to come from inside ME, not wondering about HIM. Yet, when you've had to discover everything on your own, it's really hard to make your way back to being comfortable.

 

I guess I'm rambling.. Maybe I just need to make a decision to decide to settle for less than ideal. It would sure make things easier.

No, I understand. It's hard to put in words.

 

I feel like my recovery flops between irrational mindsets. Sometimes the in-house therapist. Other times roommate with benefits. Occasionally chatty friend.

 

The awful moments are rare, but I still mourn lost romantic ideals or despair at the inhumanity of being betrayed. It happens at certain parts of the day, when I'm quiet inside and fall into that deep, wrenching sadness of suddenly remembering and feeling. All of it. All at once.

 

The precipitating thoughts vary. Last night I woke up and began to sob, suddenly remembering how we were, how it felt next to him, resting in a closeness shared with no one else, mindless contentment borne of timeless trust for each other with only each other.

 

It's gone. Along with my trust and vulnerability to him. It can't be replaced or renewed.

 

Therapy and understanding him make me realize maybe that 'state' was mine alone anyway. Imagined. It obviously wasn't shared. Instead, I accept his sad limitations wounded by a dysfunctional family (yada yada) and so maybe try for something different, something as simple as making "your way back to being comfortable." I'd like to be surprised but won't hold my breath.

 

I might cry again for what I maybe lost and then keep trying to find something new and unexpected in the here and now. Maybe even offer some "new and unexpected" of my own. Not too high a goal, not to low a tolerance.

[Noirek]

There are people who live in the past. There are people who live in the present and there are people who live in the future. The people who live in the past will put some memories on a pedastel and others will be bigger than life terrible in the for front of their minds. People who mainly live in the present don't think of consequences often and don't always learn from their mistakes. People who live on the future can be insatiable. And as with anything, humans are unique and can be a mix of all sorts of things.

 

But if you are someone who lives in the past. You aren't going to find much contentment living with someone who has hurt you. you don't like his attitude towards his affairs and unwillingness to do everything that it takes.

 

On that other thread where the WW is getting ripped to shreds and judged, the main theme is that obviously it didn't matter the amount of time. Her H could not let go of the affair. Her affair 8 years before ended their marriage. It was over. It just took her H 8 years to actually let her know or figure it out. Of course there are judgements against her saying she didn't do enough, bla bla bla. But even if she had. She had no control over her BH. Nothing changes the fact she destroyed her marriage. Nothing good and right she did after wipes her slate clean. Lots of people share this opinion and express it over and over.

 

You simply don't always work past it. 5, 10, 15, 20 years the affair will still be there if you are a past dweller. All the right things you did post your own DDay? Good for your self respect but mean nothing in view of what you did wrong. (If your husband is also a past dweller) it Erases nothing. Your H? He has two strikes on him (one if you cancel his first out). Even if he did everything it wouldn't erase what he did and what you saw. Or his attitude about it in the past.

 

You can't change it. You can't change him. You may not be able to even change yourself. Do you mind being the person who decades past DDay is still living with a constant reminder of betrayal and has not moved to a better place?

[katielee]

Thanks merrmeade.

 

I do mind being that person. I'm not sure if not being able to move past it means it's a dealbreaker or some personal flaw in me.

[Noirek]

Thanks merrmeade.

 

I do mind being that person. I'm not sure if not being able to move past it means it's a dealbreaker or some personal flaw in me.

 

Who's to say what is a flaw and what is a strength? Sometimes they can be both. I know many people, with real life stories, don't fit into the moulds. But "they" say chances of reconciliation are very low when you see the act of cheating. Not to discourage you. I am sure there are success stories. But maybe to realize you are overcoming a lot. Or asking the impossible of yourself.