A practising Catholic Vs a non-practising beliver

[Hyonlife]

This isn't so much a theological debate as a question for me of values and how one reconciles the here and now with the 'life after'.

The wife (fiancé if we want to be accurate) are having all kinds of issues with intimacy; be it the physical act of penetrative sex or what we would all consider foreplay in all its guises, the fear of upsetting God is driving a wedge between us because of her insistence on selectively following the 10 Commandments.

I'll abbreviate this as much as possible for ease of reading and because nobody wants an essay.

We currently have a 2year old and another baby due in a few weeks. I'm excited. I'm still very much excited by the woman - she is smart, funny and incredibly beautiful as well as sexy. In saying that, our sex life truly consists of us going to bed when tired and getting the deed done without much in the way of foreplay. My ability to perform under these circumstances has been an issue whereby she will orgasm while I remain unrelieved. Taking away the pregnancy, it has become the norm rather than the exception.

I am accused of not being attracted to her which isn't true. It has been said to me it is because I watch porn when she has a vagina I could use. Also, it has become an issue that during times of her not being available for whatever reason, my masturbation causes her moral consternation. Having had these things pointed out too often in the last few weeks to listen to it again, we finally came to more of an understanding.

Her being Catholic, there are a number of things she has done clearly under sufferance, not just with me but since her becoming sexually active. Keeping in mind, we aren't actually married and have 1.8 children, I'm already Damned!

From masturbation, to anything other than sex for the purposes of procreation, according to her and the Bible, she should not be doing ANYTHING that goes against God's Word. Being a guy, unaffected by pregnancy hormones, I kind of laughed derisively and suggested it's /a little late for that considering your expanding foetal girth'. It didn't go down well.

Of course, my questions then started:

We now have another reason why you don't perform oral sex but have been willing since we dated to receive?!

Sex is being used as a weapon because if I don't acquiesce to your 'demands' and you withhold sex I can't relieve myself through self pleasure?!

Is this another reason, apart from your apparent discomfort, why you won't let me watch you touch yourself?!

It was a little like the Spanish Inquisition and it felt terrible. What it all means to me and what she has pretty much allowed me to believe since the end to our conversation, is that the things we have done, the things I have told her I would like to do more of and she's reluctantly agreed to (like her actually reciprocating foreplay) are strictly speaking, sins.

I'll profess I believe in God, but I don't believe in being held to ransom by a Church or dogma because I don't believe God gave us clits and frenula NOT to enjoy sex, rather than have it to simply create more sprogs that the world really doesn't need. I'm aware of the irony...let it go

 

 

Is there anyone out there in the same position?

A guy or girl of religion, who has always been religious all of a sudden having an epiphany that sinning is bad for the soul?

 

 

She has yet to grasp the concept that my lack of interest in sex isn't a lack of attraction to her but extreme displeasure in being the only one who shows an interest in showing desire and wanting to keep things relatively fresh and interesting. But the roadblock is always there when the other person's instinctive response is "No", "I'm not comfortable with trying", or as I've now been told emphatically it's 'because of God'.

 

Grr

[beach]

How does she claim to follow church rules when she about to have her second child before being married?

 

It looks like she has selective choosing.

 

If it's not working for you - you may want to rethink a future as her husband...

[carhill]

IMO, definitely don't marry her and definitely do focus on being a healthy co-parent and role model for your children.

 

I was the product of the reverse, gender-wise, but the fundamental difference was respect and love between the spouses. They respected each others religious differences and came together in a synergistic way which lasted for a lifetime. The fundamental Catholic who went as far as having the marriage to his first, unfaithful, wife annulled in the church, eloped and had a civil ceremony for his second, and last, marriage. The essentially non-religious Lutheran accepted the precepts of the Catholic faith and facilitated the product of the marriage, me, to be raised in that faith. Marriage is teamwork and, yes, religion is important but it doesn't supersede the team. The team is always number one.

 

If I even smelled sex being used as a weapon, regardless of the realities, I'd be gone so fast the door wouldn't know what hit it. And, yup I've been married and sex was never an issue in our M. It comes down to respect and love. If that's in doubt, get out.

[newmoon]

this really doesn't seem to be a religious issue, it's just a sex issue. she's obviously not a practicing catholic if she's ok with being unwed and having babies. she's just not interested in sex and decides to use religion and sinning as a handy excuse. perhaps once the baby is born it'll change for you guys? did it improve after the first child? there is also a sex forum on here... maybe the question is better there.

[Hyonlife]

Being selective was one of the first comments I made and you can imagine it went down like a lead balloon.

As far as marrying her, I am reconsidering because an argument about religion has already created a lot of world problems and I'm no smart enough to win this particular challenge of ideas.

Interesting to note she has already removed the engagement ring which, although I noticed a couple of weeks ago immediately following this rather heated debate, I commented on this morning.

I have a lot of faults and I tend to hold onto things, especially when it comes to intimacy because either people want to do things because they are keen and care, or they don't. I offered to 'convert' to Catholicism even though I don't subscribe to any one religion; it was a gesture for her because I care and consider her feelings.

It has got to the point where nearly everything is to her benefit and I recently told her I resent this being the case. As I said, a lot of faults - I said she was a wonderful mother but a woefully disinterested and horrible partner

[Tayla]

Consider counseling. The dogma that she is creating for herself is suppression of intimacy. That is unhealthy. If she is devout, suggest she speak to a priest. Most are respecting (despite what some poor priest have done to mar the faith). Its not that either one of you is wrong, a bit of re-adjustment needs brought forth.

 

You sound like you actually like her along with loving her. Consider the suggestions ... and then discuss.

 

Congrats on the upcoming child, may it be healthy. !

[Hyonlife]

this really doesn't seem to be a religious issue, it's just a sex issue

 

 

I respectfully disagree; the subtext is religion in relationships being used as a catchall for what does and doesn't happen in the partnership. The sex issue is incidental - an example, if you will.

 

 

Further along I asked if anyone else, guy or girl, has been in a situation whereby religion has been used to gain an advantage, for want of another way of putting it.

 

 

Perhaps I should have asked for suggestions of how to handle such a situation where religion takes precedence over more earthly matters.

 

My mistake. I hope this clears that up

Edited July 17, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[AppleKakes]

How does she claim to follow church rules when she about to have her second child before being married?

 

It looks like she has selective choosing.

 

If it's not working for you - you may want to rethink a future as her husband...

 

Sorry, but you've been played....Now that she got you hooked for 18 years, she could care less about your needs/desires.

 

I had a woman tell me that once...she said that 'now that she got her child, she doesn't care what he does'. So, he cheats, she cheats and IMO, sad/sick situation if you ask me.

 

What's important now is raising your kids. I just pray her "selective" religious beliefs don't end up hurting the kids.

 

I was just listening to my fav podcaster where a guy called in cuz the woman he's shacking up with and have a toddler with, thinks "yelling" a child to sleep works. So, he got up and slept with the kid and here she comes yelling at the both of them. Fortunately she lost steam and both father and son fell asleep. I almost wanna cry just rehashing that call...I remember as a child feeling "trapped" in an abusive home with dad yelling all the time and for the life of me can't see how people make babies with people they barely know and/or show red flags...

 

I don't know if she pulled a bait/switch on you or you ignored red flags...but quite frankly, a chick who would have two kids without providing a "nest" (marriage and loving home) would already would have been a red flag to me.

 

Well sorry, you're stuck. Next time watch who you get pregnant and focus on your kids...they are innocent and if their parents aren't gonna protect them - who will?

 

Side note: My fav podcaster recommended they get one of those plush bears/bunnies with the heartbeat that resembles the experience the child has in the woman's body - it soothes kids. Did this yelling maniac and guy not even consider trying to get the poor child a soothing toy?

Edited July 17, 2015 by AppleKakes

[Hyonlife]

Consider counseling.

 

 

That's something we have since discussed. Not so much for the physical intimacy, it's her body and she can do or not do with it what she likes. We both agreed that having someone impartial help us focus on what is important to us as individuals might help us work better as a couple.

 

 

For instance, we have different views on the importance of going to Church. It is my basic understanding that God doesn't care whether we frequent a particular building so long as we are active in practising the faith. Now, I'm almost certain were I to ask a Priest, a Bishop or someone intrinsic to a Church, I'm going to be told something about NEEDING to attend to be seen to believe. Frankly, I don't buy it. To me, that's like saying the only way you can be truly healthy is by seeing a doctor every day or week to ensure you are remaining healthy.

 

 

On a more personal level, I'm told it is a mark of my disrespect to her as a Catholic and the mother of our children that I am not seen with her at a Church. In a way, I could see this perspective if I was disrespectful to her as a mother in any other way but I'm not. I actually wonder if it has more to do with her being seen with a mixed baby at Church alone where we both have witnessed the disgusted stairs of so-called Christians, who stare daggers thinking we are blind.

Edited July 17, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[AppleKakes]

That's something we have since discussed. Not so much for the physical intimacy, it's her body and she can do or not do with it what she likes. We both agreed that having someone impartial help us focus on what is important to us as individuals might help us work better as a couple.

 

 

For instance, we have different views on the importance of going to Church. It is my basic understanding that God doesn't care whether we frequent a particular building so long as we are active in practising the faith. Now, I'm almost certain were I to ask a Priest, a Bishop or someone intrinsic to a Church, I'm going to be told something about NEEDING to attend to be seen to believe. Frankly, I don't buy it. To me, that's like saying the only way you can be truly healthy is by seeing a doctor every day or week to ensure you are remaining healthy.

 

 

On a more personal level, I'm told it is a mark of my disrespect to her as a Catholic and the mother of our children that I am not seen with her at a Church. In a way, I could see this perspective if I was disrespectful to her as a mother in any other way but I'm not. I actually wonder if it has more to do with her being seen with a mixed baby at Church alone where we both have witnessed the disgusted stairs of so-called Christians, who stare daggers thinking we are blind.

 

Dude, but did you have these frank discussions with her before any pregnancies? I guess not.

 

See, people don't talk about the "practical" and "unromantic" stuff before marrying and/or haing kids cuz "love conquers all", right? And now that the kids are here, you don't like how she wants to raise them (as nutty as it is).

 

Again, sorry, that's what happens when people don't do things "right". If you two got married, had pre-marital counseling and/or waited to have kids after getting married and/or waited to see how she is/was with kid #1, AND, took the time to "really" know each other - you minimize this type of drama.

 

But, here we are...nothing can really be done to make this better here. Cuz, if you leave her and co-parent, guess what she's gonna do on her time with the kids? Teach them what she wants. Either way you're screwed. The kids will probably end up with "no religion" cuz that's what usually happens in households w/religious disputes amongst the parents.

[BeaverMan]

Is there anyone out there in the same position?

Grr

 

I can fully empathise with your situation. I probably won't be able to offer you direct advice but only empathy in the form of my own story.

My wife was brought up in a practicing catholic family. My childhood was influenced by the Jehovah's Witnesses against which, as a teenager, I eventually rebelled. For most of my life I 'masqueraded' as a Christian. About 5 years ago I decided that I was not living a true Christian life, being unable to adhere to much of their principles, so by default became Agnostic.

 

When we started dating (more than 20 years ago) she had already been sexually active with 2 ex-boyfriends. After 2 years we moved in together. We were so in love and had a fabulously satisfying sex life - nothing too radical, just lots of PIV, oral, mutual masturbation and periodically watched porn together.

 

We got married in a catholic church, the priest offered to make me an 'instant' catholic a week prior but I politely declined.

 

Fast forward 20 years with 2 kids at university and things are quite different. After being in the 'wilderness' for many years she has started attending church again. I noticed a few years ago that she was prone to bouts of guilt, especially regarding our sex life.

Oral sex, which she had previously enjoyed to a point of uncontrollable ecstasy, steadily declined to a point where she refused on the grounds that it gave her vag thrush. This topic started popping up in every argument, she would always say she never enjoyed giving me bj's, she only did it because she loves me. I no longer ask for it but she still occasionally offers which I feel is unfair if I can't reciprocate.

 

When she reached a stage in her life (which I understand is quite normal) where virginal dryness became a problem I mischievously decided to reintroduce 'porn' as an experiment. I knew exactly from previous discussions what was off limits so decided on the educational style dvd's - explicit but instructional. For a while she appeared to accept and enjoy these - I made this deduction because we NEVER needed extra lube on these occasions. After many bouts of delayed guilt I finally decided about a year ago to trash my collection.

 

Things we use to do as foreplay like role-playing and sharing fantasies brought on the guilt so gradually ceased. Sex has now been reduced to about 15 minutes of missionary position on Saturday mornings - basically a break between her iPad activities.

I always try to be a considerate lover, never forcing her to do anything against her will and always ensuring that she orgasms.

 

By 'bouts of guilt' I mean the anxiety she suffers being torn between what she wants/likes doing conflicting with her religious teachings.

 

I recently became aware of a website called 'Christian nymphos' which I enjoy browsing. She had a look but showed no continued interest.

[AppleKakes]

"Religion" is not the issue here...

 

The OP's "fiance's" lack of desire to have sex with him anymore cuz she got what she wants (kids and his monetary support) are already locked in for the next 18 years. She also seems to be controlling (her denying sex, and forbidding him to masturbate to make up for it...shoot, maybe she wants him so hungry so next time she wants a kid, he'll hump her w/o thinking twice to quench his thirst for the sex she's been withholding).

 

Some women will use any excuse to stop having sex. Some use sexual abuse (some even lie about it), some say the kids, some say their jobs - whatever...

 

When a woman cares, she puts sex and her man as a priority. I've heard of women who had sexual abuse, dryness from menopause, etc. call my fav podcaster seeking help to be able to get back into taking care of their man's sexual needs.

 

But, unfortunately, many women don't know and/or care to know how sex is important to a man and just consider it a nuisance that he needs to "get over".

 

BTW, I believe she is not even having orgasms when they have sex - cuz I find it odd that she doesn't want foreplay and wants him to go straight to penetration (probably to get her preggo) and "poof" instant orgasm for her:rolleyes:. She probably claims she has orgasm so he'll stop and get off of her already.

 

Yes, some people do use religion to control people. My dad was like that. He only seemed to see the parts of the scriptures where the women were supposed to submit to the men - yet, he somehow missed the parts where he's supposed to provide and protect for his wife and kids. I mean, some men even go to the churches in order to find a "church goin' girl" they can control and manipulate. A ex-gf of mine? Her husband never had steady work and one day decided he wanted to "preach" - mind you he beat on her, was controlling, etc.

 

I'm an odd ball cuz while I have religious practices and beliefs, I also have another side - where sex and me is far from vanilla to say the least. That's one reason why dating is difficult for me, cuz I do not want to marry someone of my faith cuz I don't wanna be lectured on drinking, tattoos, music, way of dress, etc. But, I dress very prudish and do pray and stuff - and I guess that confuses some people/guys.

 

That's one reason why I try to keep things casual with guys I date and don't open up much. The less they know, the less complicated for me. I just want to have someone and enjoy their company. If I wanted to have kids and all that, then yes, I'd be more discerning on a mate cuz religious views are gonna be an issue that comes up when/if we have kids. People are funny, but like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, yes, some people reach a point in their lives where they seek a connection with a "higher power" and yes, some people diss their SOs when they reach that journey. But still, IMO, that goes to really getting to know your partner. Yes, people may change with time, but still, if you took the time to get to know them, you probably could have seen some red flags from early on.