Biggest Mistake of My Life

[Sad_Panda03]

So we've covered what I should do with my wife. I feel like that issue has been addressed.

 

Now, what I really need to prepare for is what do I do with this woman if she is pregnant, and decides to tell me. I have no idea how to react other than to urge her to get an abortion.

[Mr. Lucky]

Not drinking is a top priority of mine, and today I was planning on going back to an AA meeting to pick up my 1 month chip. Going to AA only made the desire to drink stronger, but I have been "white knuckling" my habit. I am making an appointment with a counselor next week to talk both about the infidelity and the drinking. I am a professional with a great career, and have had a history of substance abuse. It used to be drugs, then I went through rehab and never touched a hard drug again, but eventually turned to drinking.

 

I almost drank last night because I was so frustrated I didn't know what was going on. I guess I'm sort of a control freak and feel compelled to push and push until I get what I want. I've tried what I can to get this woman to respond to me, but she won't. I need to let go and realize that it is out of my control.

 

Right now, you're a dry drunk. Get back into the program, go to 90 meetings in the next 90 days. Other AA members have walked miles in your shoes and can give you invaluable advice and support.

 

Your transition from drugs to alcohol isn't uncommon, obviously the root issues are unaddressed. Time to surrender your life to a higher power...

 

Mr. Lucky

[beach]

Right now, you're a dry drunk. Get back into the program, go to 90 meetings in the next 90 days. Other AA members have walked miles in your shoes and can give you invaluable advice and support.

 

Your transition from drugs to alcohol isn't uncommon, obviously the root issues are unaddressed. Time to surrender your life to a higher power...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I agree. Get a sponsor and do the step work.

 

It doesn't sound as if the gal is pregnant - if she really is I'm sure she will contact you. You can't make her terminate the pregnancy, she will decide what she is going to do.

 

Have you read the big book? Have you sponsored others? You have work to do... I hope you hurry in getting the steps done so you can address the cause and trauma that makes you drink.

[Sad_Panda03]

I see that we have some AA members responding to my post now, which I appreciate. I tried NA after rehab and AA this spring, neither of which worked. I got a sponsor, read the big book, began step work with an open mind and heart, etc. In AA, I feel that I can't connect with my peers, as many of them come off as unintelligent, low-lives, etc. with serious personality disorders. I met few professionals in AA, but many ex-professionals that lost everything when they turned to alcohol. Also, nearly any meeting I go to, homosexuals seem to flock to me and come on to me, and that makes me really uncomfortable. I don't believe the 12 steps to be an effective method to my recovery. As I've been told in AA, "There is no wrong way to be sober".

 

I'm finding my way to be sober and I feel that through professional counseling, outpatient therapy, and personal meditation that I will be able to conquer this illness.

 

The Irrationality of Alcoholics Anonymous - The Atlantic

 

This article describes the issues that I have with AA and why I believe it to be an ineffective method to achieve sobriety, for me at least.

 

I'm fairly fed up with AA. I've attended hundreds of meetings, to little or no avail. So I'm seeking alternative methods that certainly seem to be working, for the time being. I'm glad that it works for some people, but I don't think it is the right program of recovery for me.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Sad_Panda03

[Lovebug66]

Hi Panda,

Congrats on your sobriety! That is a huge accomplishment.

 

I'm always in the camp of telling your spouse. Having said that, I'm going to offer you a little bit of a different suggestion than I would most, take it or leave it.

 

My H is 3 1/2 years sober in AA, I have been in Alanon for that amount of time. From the little you have wrote about her, I highly suggest your wife gets to Alanon. Not only for this situation, but for all the rest she has dealt with with your alcoholism.

 

I understand you not wanting to pile on more when she is already fragile. Usually I think not telling is pretty selfish, but my gut says you have good intentions in your heart. You are newly sober, and it is really easy to get overwhelmed by 'normal' things, this one is a whopper. You have to protect your sobriety, the other stuff will fall into place if you have a sponsor and are working those steps hard and honestly. Sobriety gone, you will just be back to square one doing more things to hurt yourself and your wife. Everyone has big problems when they get sober. The past, when you were too drunk to think long term, catches up. It's painful, and you are used to getting a quick fix to your pain. Sorry to tell you the quick fixes are over, but I hope you trust me in how rewarding it is to work thru them. You are still sober, so I think you get it

 

As things stand now, I would wait on telling your wife. Work hard, stay sober, be the man you are committed to now being and show her how much you love and appreciate her. If you are doing all that, when you get to your 9th step, making amends, this is when I would tell your wife. It's easy to waffle and not want to get to that step, but if you have put in the work it will come out right.

 

If your wife is getting help too, she will most likely know in her heart you have cheated. When I first found out about my H's A, I thought I knew he could do x, y and z, but I never thought he'd cheat. Looking back now, that is laughable. I was in denial. I see pretty clearly other times he probably cheated too. My H has not come clean about his past with me, I would not suggest that. I'm very willing to forgive what he did in his drug fueled haze. It bothers me greatly he can continue to live dishonestly, that does not show growth to me. Does that make sense? I want to believe my H is a good person who makes good, moral, considerate decisions and the only reason he didn't was because he was using. What he is showing me now is that his character beneath is not as solid as I thought.

 

My apologies for the long response. I wish I could offer you more on how to deal with the OW. If you are blowing her up and she won't respond then there is really no solution to be had yet. Sucks to have to wait it out, but sometimes that's all you can do. I wish you all the best.

[Sad_Panda03]

Thank you for the long response. When I attend a meeting after work today, I will try and make some new connections. I'm not completely against AA, I've just failed in the program so many times that I feel like other avenues may be better for me. I know this is blasphemy to AA and Al-Anon members, etc. Most of you think your program is the only way one will achieve true sobriety... but I believe in there being more than one way to overcoming problems.

 

Your response meant a lot to me and I will take it all to heart.

[Lovebug66]

Ha, I see you wrote a post while I was posting about AA I get your reservations. I believe in the principles of AA strongly, I don't always like the way some people carry it. There is a lot of room for your own interpretations, and I have noticed some of the loudest aren't always working the program the way I interpret it and quite frankly I think their message can be detrimental to others.

 

However you chose to stay sober is ok with me. I do suggest you follow some key principles tho, like honesty, personal inventory, actively repairing the damage you have done to yourself and others, not doing it on your own and receiving guidance. Remember it is so much more than just staying sober, you are changing the way you approach life. Good luck

[beach]

I see that we have some AA members responding to my post now, which I appreciate. I tried NA after rehab and AA this spring, neither of which worked. I got a sponsor, read the big book, began step work with an open mind and heart, etc. In AA, I feel that I can't connect with my peers, as many of them come off as unintelligent, low-lives, etc. with serious personality disorders. I met few professionals in AA, but many ex-professionals that lost everything when they turned to alcohol. Also, nearly any meeting I go to, homosexuals seem to flock to me and come on to me, and that makes me really uncomfortable. I don't believe the 12 steps to be an effective method to my recovery. As I've been told in AA, "There is no wrong way to be sober".

 

I'm finding my way to be sober and I feel that through professional counseling, outpatient therapy, and personal meditation that I will be able to conquer this illness.

 

The Irrationality of Alcoholics Anonymous - The Atlantic

 

This article describes the issues that I have with AA and why I believe it to be an ineffective method to achieve sobriety, for me at least.

 

I'm fairly fed up with AA. I've attended hundreds of meetings, to little or no avail. So I'm seeking alternative methods that certainly seem to be working, for the time being. I'm glad that it works for some people, but I don't think it is the right program of recovery for me.

 

I think you are giving evidence that when any person hasn't done the step work - they are likely to drink again.

 

You haven't "done" AA. That's why it hasn't worked yet, for you.

 

Sitting in a meeting isn't necessarily AA. Doing ALL the steps is.

 

You are providing your own evidence of why it hasn't worked for you.

 

Self will only goes so far. Self can't heal self with self.

 

And take the judgment of others out of it - those are people that could potentially save your life! You're no different than them. Pick a sponsor - anyone will do as long as they have done the steps.

 

You've failed because you didn't do the work or action part of the program.

 

It's not a counsellors job to do steps with you. It helps with trauma that's uncovered - but you need help.

 

I hope you get busy doing the action part of the program.

[velvette]

I'm not telling her anything unless the OW is pregnant. Is there any benefit to causing my wife to suffer other than to selfishly abolish my own guilt?

 

Your W deserves to know. She deserves a H who will be honest with her.

 

 

And heres a practical reason..........OW tells you she's not pregnant (shes already said if she is she doesn't want you involved). But, later you find out she really was when a 20 year old shows up on your and W doorstep and says you are their father. What then?

[autumnnight]

How do you recommend going about sharing something that devastating with your spouse?

 

Own your behavior 100%

 

Don't blame your BS

 

Don't blame the AP

 

Don't mention any marriage problems

 

Don't beat around the bush but be compassionate

 

Listen...listen...listen

 

Answer whatever questions she asks

[Sad_Panda03]

Beach, I met with my sponsor for ~2-3 hours a day every day, sometimes half a day on the weekends. We would read the big book together and then discuss the steps. I did writing assignments correlated to each step as I made my way through them.

 

Is this not what the AA program and step-work is all about? Perhaps I'm one of those unfortunates who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with myself?

 

I really think the issue lies deeper, perhaps with undiagnosed psychological or personality disorders that I may have. I want to fully exhaust all my options. I still go to AA often, but not every day any more. I don't consider AA a bad thing, some of the meetings are wonderful and very helpful for my recovery. I just know that I can't rely only on non-professionals to aid me in my quest to fully recover from alcoholism.

 

However, this is turning more into an AA post than a "what do I do if this potentially pregnant woman actually is pregnant" post.

 

Everything has been touched on except what to do if this woman is actually pregnant.

[Sad_Panda03]

Velvette, that's the easy EASY route. I'll be long retired by then with a pension and probably living quite nicely. If a 20 year old son shows up, I'd certainly do everything I could at that point to make up for lost time with him.

 

No matter what I'm going to have to answer for my wrongdoings. One way or another, I will have to account for my infidelity, and I am aware of this.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think you are giving evidence that when any person hasn't done the step work - they are likely to drink again.

 

You haven't "done" AA. That's why it hasn't worked yet, for you.

 

Sitting in a meeting isn't necessarily AA. Doing ALL the steps is.

 

You are providing your own evidence of why it hasn't worked for you.

 

Self will only goes so far. Self can't heal self with self.

 

 

Saved me time, was going to write the same response. It isn't AA that hasn't worked, it's you that hasn't done the work. AA provides the bricks, it's you that gets to cement them together.

 

Addiction is a disease. How many people that have other recurring and life-threatening diseases - diabetes, hypertension, etc. - say "I'll just fix this myself" and do so successfully? Very few as your own history proves.

 

Remorse and humility are two different things. You're strong on the former, a ways to go on the latter...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sad_Panda03]

Thanks for your insight, but you all don't seem to believe that I have actually given AA an honest attempt. This is typical among AA members, and it also makes me not desire to return. "If you still desire to drink, or slip up, there's something wrong with YOU. YOU'RE not working the steps. YOU'RE not fully giving yourself to the program." Yadda Yadda Yadda.

 

I have been to, I'm not joking, hundreds of meetings, a few hundred NA, and >100 AA this year. I'd often go to two per day, one during my lunch break and one after work.

 

This thread goes to show that AA cliches are certainly universal.

 

Now, can we please stop talking about AA and my inadequate attempts at the program and focus a bit more on what steps I should take if I find out in the next few weeks that this other woman is pregnant?

[velvette]

Velvette, that's the easy EASY route. I'll be long retired by then with a pension and probably living quite nicely. If a 20 year old son shows up, I'd certainly do everything I could at that point to make up for lost time with him.

 

No matter what I'm going to have to answer for my wrongdoings. One way or another, I will have to account for my infidelity, and I am aware of this.

 

Yes but how would you account to your W for a twenty year old lie of omission?

[MidwestUSA]

Again, I'm going to mention that I highly doubt she's pregnant. The junk from her vagina doesn't sound like a miscarriage, it sounds like ovulation or any of a whole host of gunk we're able, as women, to produce.

 

You said she's obese and has PCOS. I have to ask, and I'm really sorry, but is she hairy?

[Sad_Panda03]

Also, I used to be morbidly obese with hypertension of up to 195/120 (Highest recorded at a doctor's appointment in my medical records) and Triglycerides levels over 400 mg/dl and total cholesterol around 250.

 

Rather than going on medication I began dieting and exercising. I lost 110 lbs in 9 months. My life was threatened and I changed my habits.

 

Alcohol is threatening my life and my marriage. I no longer desire to drink. I think about it sometimes, just like I think about food. I'd love to eat an entire pizza or a dozen krispy kreme doughnuts, but I don't because I will not go back to who I used to be. I didn't need Overeaters Anonymous, medication, or surgery. I needed will power. Alcoholism and addiction has been harder as it's more tempting. I know it affects similar neurotransmitters, but on much more severe levels.

 

I'm not trying to justify not going to AA. I'm just saying it's not the only way to recover. I will have AA as a part of my life, but people who are fanatical about it really make me not want to be a part of it. I want to be a part of a program of recovery, not a cult.

[Sad_Panda03]

Not hairy at all. If it was ovulation, why was there no blood?

 

Also, Velvette, I'm not sure. It's all a balance of pros and cons. Is 20 years of mistrust worth 20 years of a potentially phenomenal marriage only later to find out that I wasn't faithful. I believe people can change. Perhaps she would understand that the person I am 20 years later is not the person I was when I was a drunkard.

[Lovebug66]

If OW is pregnant, I'd get on the fast track to telling your wife. She needs to be included as this would effect her life greatly too. I'm with the others that there is a lot of evidence to support she isn't pregnant.

 

I have found there are a lot of 'what ifs' in life, Panda. When we focus on the what ifs, we miss out on focusing on reality. For me, what ifs were my golden ticket to put off dealing with what was already reality. You have said this possible pregnancy is consuming your thoughts, and I don't blame you for that. It's a doozy. But if that is consuming you, are you really giving 100% to what is your reality, what is under your control? Just something to chew on.

[beach]

Also, I used to be morbidly obese with hypertension of up to 195/120 (Highest recorded at a doctor's appointment in my medical records) and Triglycerides levels over 400 mg/dl and total cholesterol around 250.

 

Rather than going on medication I began dieting and exercising. I lost 110 lbs in 9 months. My life was threatened and I changed my habits.

 

Alcohol is threatening my life and my marriage. I no longer desire to drink. I think about it sometimes, just like I think about food. I'd love to eat an entire pizza or a dozen krispy kreme doughnuts, but I don't because I will not go back to who I used to be. I didn't need Overeaters Anonymous, medication, or surgery. I needed will power. Alcoholism and addiction has been harder as it's more tempting. I know it affects similar neurotransmitters, but on much more severe levels.

 

I'm not trying to justify not going to AA. I'm just saying it's not the only way to recover. I will have AA as a part of my life, but people who are fanatical about it really make me not want to be a part of it. I want to be a part of a program of recovery, not a cult.

 

You will only recover according to how much energy you put into it.

 

And it's NOT a cult. YOU get to choose whatever you wish for your higher power. As long as it's no longer alcohol or drugs...

 

You have a lot of misconceptions about AA.

 

How about no meetings but work the steps with another person?

[Sad_Panda03]

Yeah, lovebug, in my local AA groups they call it "having one foot in the past, one in the future, and ****ting all over the present".

 

I know I shouldn't, but it seems like my life is consumed by those types of thoughts, not just this scenario specifically.

 

Beach, I'm still going to meetings, and am open minded to working the steps all over again with a sponsor.

[MidwestUSA]

Not hairy at all. If it was ovulation, why was there no blood?

 

There is no blood with ovulation. You're thinking of menstruation. There is sometimes a special mucus that accompanies the expelled egg on its journey. It can pretty heavy.

[Satu]

Alcoholism is an illness, so you deserve to be treated with compassion regarding that.

 

The cheating? As an alcoholic you deserve *some* slack, if you were using heavily.

 

The lying? You are doing that sober, so you don't deserve any compassion or slack for doing that.

 

None at all.

[OldRover]

Yeah, lovebug, in my local AA groups they call it "having one foot in the past, one in the future, and ****ting all over the present".

 

I know I shouldn't, but it seems like my life is consumed by those types of thoughts, not just this scenario specifically.

 

Beach, I'm still going to meetings, and am open minded to working the steps all over again with a sponsor.

 

Panda,

 

I'll probably go against the grain here, but any alcohol program has value for what YOU put into it, however AA has a dismal success record (as do a lot of others). I'm in the camp that it's NOT a disease, it's an addiction. I've been involved with alcohol treatment for 20 years and found that some of the very best treatments are from quality professionals, usually involving individual counseling or small groups, however can easily run into 10s of thousands of dollars... yes I've spend all of that and more. Best to you on that....

 

But, if you find out the OW is pregnant you and she will have to make choices (mainly hers), and you'll really need to let your wife know. She will probably make the choice of abortion, adoption, or keeping the child. And whatever the choice, you'll have to live with it. Hope it really shows up negative, that would be one big relief for you.

 

Overall, you sound like a good guy, that just got into a sh** load of trouble. Doesn't mean life is over... it's in the recovery stage, and you can go up and become the man you want to be and end up with a happy life.

 

You do have to get thru a few things, first..... and the Alcohol is by far the most important..... and best of luck for that.

[Sad_Panda03]

Satu, are you referring to lying by omission regarding my infidelity to my wife while sober, or are you calling me out on another lie? If it's the latter, I'd like to know what you're referring to because I'm at a loss.

 

Old Rover, thank you for everything you just posted.

 

Also, thank everyone else. I've spent most of my day darting between this forum and my work and you guys have helped me get through the day. A weight has seriously been lifted off my shoulders as I no longer feel lost in this situation. I realize that no matter what the outcome, it is not the end of the world, that there are solutions, even if the worst comes to pass.

 

I can not express through words alone how much gratitude I have for you all, even the ones giving me "tough love" lol.