Is crate training a dog abusive?

[Noproblem]

and just when I was thinking I couldn't be madder and more upset I read your topic

 

This monster should rot in a cage and we should send her to Iran since i heard they are having a 150 f degree

 

How can they do that!

 

Don't let this go, you should tell her what she is doing is a crime and inhumane

 

My cousin did it to his dog

 

my mom told me about it and I was about to cry

 

His poor husky would be rotting in a cage in the garden!

 

How can people be like this

 

I couldn't sleep when I heard about it..

 

then my mom interfered told them that she dreamed bad dreams about the dogs and they got scared and sold it..

 

Maybe they didn't, but at least now I now the dog with a better owner..

 

You should interfere for the sake of this poor dog

[Noproblem]

Some dogs will tear up your house if you don't crate them while you're gone.

 

Maybe the dog needs more training, but, without that, crating may be the owner's only option.

 

if you can't handle a dog, you should not bring him in your house!

 

you are not doing him any favor by bringing him inside and putting him inside a cage or a crate

 

killing him at the shelter would be more humane than this!

[Noproblem]

I have no issues with crate training and all animal behaviorist I know or have studied accept/promote crate training. Both of my dogs, rescues, are crate trained.

 

The only time we crated for that long was our youngest dog at night. He was not happy downstairs so he was crated in our room or the kids' room while we were sleeping and let out once in the middle of the night as a puppy and that stopped when he got to be more than 6 months old. As he grew we moved from the crate (he is a big boy almost 95 pounds) and had a moveable gate thingie that we could great a pen area in our bedroom for him to settle down at night. At 16 months he was able to be free in that area and will settle down on his bed with a kong.

 

He was crated during the day if we were gone, no more than 4 hours. It was hit or miss with letting him loose in the kitchen as he chewed up the ottoman and the pillows on the couch. Finally at 2 years old he is much better and does not need crating at all.

 

But it is a good skill to have as crating can be necessary at times.

 

For us, when we are at work, if we aren't working from home, or overlapping schedules then the dogs go to doggy daycare. The dogs are not left home alone longer than 5-6 hours still.

 

You don't mind?

would you swap places, why don't we try putting you inside a cage or crate for 8 hours, how would you like that then?

[sweetjasmine]

I'm sure "crating" is successful cuz the poor thing has probably went into depression. Look at people in jails, they, after a while have no choice "but" to get used to being locked up...not cuz they enjoy it.

 

Oh, in shelters? Hello, the dogs have room to walk around in the cage. But sadly they pee and defecate right there. Ever wonder why they give a bath to them before you pick them up and/or won't give you a tour of the facilities?

 

If you think crating a dog at home for a few hours every once in a while is equivalent to an actual prison sentence or a shelter stay, I don't even know what to say to you. You really lack understanding of this issue.

 

you are not doing him any favor by bringing him inside and putting him inside a cage or a crate

 

killing him at the shelter would be more humane than this!

 

So are dogs better of dead than being boarded or hospitalized since putting them in a crate is criminal and inhumane?

Edited August 1, 2015 by sweetjasmine

[Tobin]

You don't mind?

would you swap places, why don't we try putting you inside a cage or crate for 8 hours, how would you like that then?

 

That's like saying "how would you like it if someone tied a rope to your neck and made you walk alongside them" or "how would you like it if someone made you eat your dinner out of a bowl or drink your water out of a dish on the floor" or "how would you like it if you had to squat and poop on the floor"

 

People go to the park to smell the flowers, dogs smell the other dog's crap.

 

Dogs are not the same as people, do not humanize them.

[amaysngrace]

My dog is more human than some humans...it would seem...

 

I've been stuck at a red light next to a kennel after hours. All you can hear is barking.

[xxoo]

Dogs adapt. Many grow to love their crate. The one dog I raised from a pup (all others have been adult rescues) was crate trained from a pup and loved his crate through old age. Even with the door open, he slept in it. If I left the house without crating him, he got anxious and barked/misbehaved. If I crated him, he chilled and slept. Neighbors confirmed he was quiet.

 

Like parenting, there is more than one right way to be a dog owner. Meet her dog and judge for yourself. Does the dog seem well adjusted? If so, obviously the dog isn't stressed about its situation.

[Tayla]

Neither of my dogs were crate trained.

 

No reason too. They took to directions and schedules well.

 

My boss crate trained his , but his were strictly hunting dogs , not house pets . Kept in the barn.

[bathtub-row]

I don't own birds because I think it's cruel to cage them. I don't own exotic animals because I think they belong in the wild. My cats have a kitty door to the outside and can come and go as they please. I don't have a dog because, no matter how much I love dogs, I don't want the responsibility. However, if I did have one, I would never put him/her in a cage. I understand the rationale about hyper or nervous dogs but most do not fit that category.

[turnera]

I don't see anywhere on here that this section is species specific, if so feel free to move it.

 

 

I'm pretty much an animal lover & I connect with dogs much more than with cats. I've been chatting platonically with a girl online for awhile. The subject of dogs came up. We're both into rescue dogs. She has a fairly new one. She told me that she keeps it crated (locked in a transport cage) while at work. I had never heard of that before. I had only done that when I had 2 dogs & one was old and feeble. I crated both dogs at feeding time to avoid any conflict or stress. I didn't have the time or energy to try to train the younger one to not be a bully during feeding. It worked out to crate feed them both side by side. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around locking a dog in a tiny cage for a big part of the day. I used to be gone a lot, but my dog(s) had a lot of the house to move around in & access to water. I had tile by the front door with a scrap piece of carpet & if they had to go or vomit, doing it there was not an issue.

 

 

What does the LS population think about crating dogs for 8+ hours a day? I don't want to judge without all the facts, but it seems kinda cruel or unnecessary to me.

It is absolutely not abusive. In fact, it gives a dog his safe place. We had dogs before we learned about crating and dogs since we started crating, and there is no difference in whether they 'feel' wronged. In fact, they love having a place to go to when they're tired or scared; they can sleep in there securely without keeping an eye open for danger; one of mine is sleeping in his right now and the other was in his just a minute ago. And when you're at work, all they do is sleep anyway, so this is a way for them to get that over with so they're ready to play with you when you get home. Of course, the crate should be big enough for them to walk into and around in. Edited August 4, 2015 by turnera

[TaraMaiden2]

I think, after having read this thread, the motive and reasons a dog is crated would determine whether it's an 'ok' thing or not.

 

For some dogs, a crate is a personal space and a 'safe haven' they are happy to retreat to.

 

For others, it's a condemnation, a prison, a place of misery.

 

It depends on how the dog has been brought up, trained and treated in the first place.

A dog should willingly occupy a crate, and it should be a big enough crate for it to move around in, comfortably.

 

A dog should not be confined therough fear and intimidation, and left in a crate that is evidently too small, cramped and uncomfortable, simply because the dog owner sees it as a convenient means of controlling the dog.

 

And if you work all day, every day - what dafuq do you own a dog for anyway!?

 

I'm a dog behaviourist (great articles, earlier on, BtW....) and I do not own a dog, because I work too many hours to justify owning one.

Hang on. I have to add, in all fairness, that we live in rented accommodation.

My landlord has a no-pets policy.

But even if this was not so, I still wouldn't own a dog, for the above reason.

[preraph]

My opinion and that of my vet is it's cruel any longer than about 3 hours. If you're going to have to crate them, you need to come home at lunch and walk them. The thing about it being a den is nonsense. Dens don't have doors. If your dog is a house dog, the house is its den and maybe it has a favorite place. People then say "but my dog gets in it even when I don't make it." Stockholm Syndrome. Conditioning.

 

I went through orientation and classes at the zoo and they taught the many nervous habits and neurotic behaviors that come from caging animals. Crating all day while you're at work is caging, not crating, not a den. It's cruel. If you wouldn't like it done to yourself or your children, then don't delude yourselves it's good for dogs. It's for when you travel or when the pet is sick. Vets use cages because they have to, so when someone asks them if its' okay, many of them will say yes -- because what else CAN they say? They do it because they have to. They can't tell someone it's not okay and then be seen doing it. Likewise, many rescuers have to do it because they have too many animals in one space.

 

Crating should only be for special situations.

 

And potty training by crate method? Really? Giving the dog a choice between holding it for 8 hours or laying in its own pee all day? That's inhumane.

[carhill]

What does the LS population think about crating dogs for 8+ hours a day?

 

We halfway-housed a young purebred dachshund who had been treated in this manner due to both owners working and the dog having a 'weak back' and it being operated on, apparently at great expense. When the dog became too much of a burden, they offered to re-home it and a client of my exW's brought it to her attention.

 

When we got him, he could walk but was very out of shape and couldn't stand up or jump at all. His whole demeanor was 'down'. He seemed sad. After about six months of consistent care and life outside of a crate and in the country, he was running around, going on mile walks, jumping on the sofa and his whole demeanor changed into a carefree and fun-loving animal I've known dachshunds throughout my life to be.

 

We ended up adopting him out to a friend of my exW's for her daughter and, AFAIK, he's still with that family nearly a decade later.

 

Myself, the only time I crate my cat is when I travel by car and he's in a crate designed for a 70lb dog (huge). It's big enough for his litter box, a full bed, feeding area and room to move around. Otherwise, he has full run of his indoor environment whether I'm home or not.

 

I think crating a domestic pet who doesn't require it, temporarily, for medical reasons is a very poor choice. Personally, I'd never do it.

[Raena]

What if the dogs sleep in bed with the kids? Mine sleep with our kids and still seem to know my husband and I are the alphas. I don't give our kids a bedtime in summer when school's out, and some mornings i get up for work and all three kids and two dogs are sleeping in the family room. Otherwise they take turns- the dogs are always in a bed at night.

 

My dog sleeps with my son too... that's his latest craze, he insists on it... will pace and whine if I don't let him in there to snuggle with him. I like it, makes me feel like my son is safer with the dog with him.

 

He used to sleep on my bed, but I don't really like it. He's a bed hog, so I make him sleep on the floor. When he does sleep in my room, the sneaky pup waits until I fall asleep and then he gets on the bed.

 

Despite all of this, it's obvious that he knows who is master is... me. He doesn't listen to my son though... doesn't see him as an alpha yet.

[Raena]

I think, after having read this thread, the motive and reasons a dog is crated would determine whether it's an 'ok' thing or not.

 

For some dogs, a crate is a personal space and a 'safe haven' they are happy to retreat to.

 

For others, it's a condemnation, a prison, a place of misery.

 

It depends on how the dog has been brought up, trained and treated in the first place.

A dog should willingly occupy a crate, and it should be a big enough crate for it to move around in, comfortably.

 

A dog should not be confined therough fear and intimidation, and left in a crate that is evidently too small, cramped and uncomfortable, simply because the dog owner sees it as a convenient means of controlling the dog.

 

And if you work all day, every day - what dafuq do you own a dog for anyway!?

 

I'm a dog behaviourist (great articles, earlier on, BtW....) and I do not own a dog, because I work too many hours to justify owning one.

Hang on. I have to add, in all fairness, that we live in rented accommodation.

My landlord has a no-pets policy.

But even if this was not so, I still wouldn't own a dog, for the above reason.

 

In response to the bolded portion... don't MOST people work all day at least 5 days out of a week? Following your logic, almost no one would have a dog... at least not those who have a job anyway and aren't retired, mooching off the system or disabled.

[TaraMaiden2]

In response to the bolded portion... don't MOST people work all day at least 5 days out of a week? Following your logic, almost no one would have a dog... at least not those who have a job anyway and aren't retired, mooching off the system or disabled.

 

I know many people (as I work in that line) who either work but have stay-at-home partners, or who don't work full-time and have time for their pets.

Here in the UK, crating is not as widespread or habitual as it is in the USA it seems, but the majority of people I know, who have dogs, do not confine them to one tiny space.

 

Whenever I have met people who confine their pets for a whole day, they say that it's because the pet is destructive.

 

The pet is destructive for a reason.

I help them eliminate that reason, and they go on to eliminate the confinement.

[Taramere]

In response to the bolded portion... don't MOST people work all day at least 5 days out of a week? Following your logic, almost no one would have a dog... at least not those who have a job anyway and aren't retired, mooching off the system or disabled.

 

My parents always had a dog - even when they were both working. They'd come home at lunchtime, and the dog would be walked then. Every dog they had would just have the run of the house, and they were never destructive. That's always been the situation of most people I've known who work and have dogs. Colleagues of mine who have dogs but who live too far from work to go home at lunchtime pay a dogwalker to take them out. Other people, I suppose, have relatives or friends who love dogs and are happy to help out.

 

I agree with you that if the only people who could own dogs were people who didn't work full time then only a minority of people would be able to enjoy dog ownership. There are plenty of ways around the "work full-time" problem, but most of them probably do involve either living fairly close to your place of work, being able to afford a dogwalker or having a dog-loving support network of people who can't have a pet of their own but are more than happy to help out with other people's.

 

I'd never heard of crating dogs while you're out at work. Obviously I've heard of them being crated for travelling purposes and it makes sense to get them accustomed to a crate for those occasions they need to be in one....but not putting a dog in a small crate for hours on end whenever you go out.

 

Unless your dog has it's own Facebook account, gets doggie safe birthday cakes every year, has his own stocking, sleeps with you in the bed, and wears a thundershirt, someone is going to think you are abusing your dog.

 

I keep my dog crated while I am at work, and my GF might let her out to use the bathroom a couple times while I am gone. I also bought my dog from a breeder, so I am considered evil by the "rescue" crowd anyway.

 

Refusing to spoil a dog isn't unkind. In fact I would say it's a responsible approach. However, there's a huge difference between not spoiling a dog, and shutting it in a crate all day. You seem to be perceiving people who don't agree with keeping a dog confined in a crate for hours on end as being sloppily sentimental. I just think it would be a terrible life for an animal as active as a dog. I know they spend a lot of the day sleeping, but they do like to get up and stretch, walk around, be able to check for intruders if they hear sounds and so on. That's part of their role in life. To feel that they're able to guard their territory...which they can't do if they're in a small crate that they're unable to get out of.

 

What breed is your dog? When you say that you crate it, do you mean that you actually shut it in the crate - or is it able to get out when it needs to? I can see the logic of having a crate with an open door, as others on the thread have talked about...but I can't understand confining a dog for hours on end in a small crate. Is the dog able to stand up and move around within the crate?

Edited August 5, 2015 by Taramere

[Taramere]

My dog is crate trained. I leave it set up and open, and sometimes he goes in there and curls up on his pillow. It's his safe spot and his own space where not even the cats go. Nearly every day, he gets left out loose in the house, but every once in a while I need to put him in there. Sometimes I've had to leave him in his crate for longer than 6 hours. Life happens when circumstances prevent you from going home and there's no one in your life who has a spare key and who you can trust to go into your house and walk your dog. If we bring him to a friend or family member's house where we're staying overnight, he gets crated when he's left alone because most of these houses aren't dogproof, and we don't need him getting into the chocolate someone left out or whatever.

 

I can see the logic of training a dog to be in a crate, so that it doesn't get stressed out on those occasions it has to be in one.

 

I'm curious, though, what people think about boarding facilities. What happens when it's closing time, and the staff go home? The dogs stay in their crate or run until the morning shift comes. It's really not any different.

 

The ones I've seen have pens for dogs - so there's room for the dog to move around. You mentioned that people are assuming that the crate is not big enough for a dog to move about in...and I must admit, that's what I picture a crate as involving. Something like this I mean I suppose the dog could stand up in that, and take a couple of steps - but if I had to board a dog and I was told it would be kept in something like that as opposed to in a traditional pen it could move around in (as with the boarding kennels I've seen) then I would be looking elsewhere to board it, or paying somebody to look after it in its own home while I was away (or asking a dog loving friend).

 

Inevitably there are times when circumstances require that dogs are confined, and sometimes for longer than their owners would like. I just can't fathom people routinely shutting their dog in a crate (one it can't get out of) though.

 

If somebody I knew was talking about keeping their dog shut in a crate routinely and for long periods of time while they were out at work, I'd really want to know more about that. There's obviously a huge difference between a dog having a crate that it can go into if it wishes (and occasionally being confined to that crate for a few hours) and a dog being shut in a crate it can't get out of for the majority of the time.

 

I had a look to see what official (ASPCA) guidelines there are about crating dogs...

 

https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/weekend-crate-training

 

An adult dog can be crated for as long as eight hours on occasion, but daily crating of this length could compromise your dog’s mental and physical well-being. Be sure that she’s received adequate exercise before a long stay in the crate—at least 30 to 60 minutes. If your dog is crated overnight as well, she should receive at least 60 to 90 minutes of outdoor exercise in the morning and before being put back in the crate at night.

 

What they say makes sense, and ties in with what you're saying. There are times when a dog needs to be crated - and they note that occasionally it would need to be crated for long periods, but that routinely crating a dog for long periods of times may jeopardise its mental and physical health.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Taramere

[mapofyourhead]

As a vet, I advocate the use of crates for specific purposes AND when a dog is properly trained to see the crate as a positive experience. I would not automatically suggest crate training or crating for every dog.

 

Crating a dog for an entire work day (~8 hours) is, IMO, not the nicest thing, even if it's a big crate that allows the dog to stand up comfortably and take a few steps around in. No dog should have to hold his/her urine/feces in for that long, nor be confined in such a small space.

 

Putting a dog into a crate when he/she hasn't been trained is cruel, and not all dogs can be crate-trained or like crates. An exercise pen is a good alternative, or confining the dog to a particular area of the house.

[lollipopspot]

I keep my dog crated while I am at work, and my GF might let her out to use the bathroom a couple times while I am gone.

 

I had a look to see what official (ASPCA) guidelines there are about crating dogs...

 

https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/weekend-crate-training

 

An adult dog can be crated for as long as eight hours on occasion, but daily crating of this length could compromise your dog’s mental and physical well-being. Be sure that she’s received adequate exercise before a long stay in the crate—at least 30 to 60 minutes. If your dog is crated overnight as well, she should receive at least 60 to 90 minutes of outdoor exercise in the morning and before being put back in the crate at night.

 

What they say makes sense, and ties in with what you're saying. There are times when a dog needs to be crated - and they note that occasionally it would need to be crated for long periods, but that routinely crating a dog for long periods of times may jeopardise its mental and physical health.

 

O.k. then, enigma, your dog, your choice - nothing anyone here can do about it - but what you're doing isn't the best thing. Why not just let them run around the house or baby gate the kitchen?

Edited August 6, 2015 by lollipopspot

[Taramere]

O.k. then, enigma, your dog, your choice - nothing anyone here can do about it - but what you're doing isn't the best thing. Why not just let them run around the house or baby gate the kitchen?

 

A big dog, in particular, could easily start to develop joint problems if it's not getting opportunities to move around.

 

Regarding posters who use crates in a responsible way, I can see why the title of the thread might annoy them. Training a dog to become accustomed to being in a crate is a good idea. For travelling - and as Jasmine points out, there may be times when an injured animal needs to have rest imposed on it if it's to heal properly.

 

Where the notion of crate training seems to go horribly wrong is when people take it to an extreme where they use it to justify routine, long term confinement of an animal that badly needs opportunities for physical and mental stimulation. Any dog is probably going to start getting a bit screwed up in the head if (as a result of the impossibility of the situation it finds itself in - ie being left in the crate for more than 8 hours a day, given travelling time on top of the usual working day hours) it starts messing its own sleeping place against all its instincts not to.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Taramere

[bathtub-row]

Maybe slightly off topic but I admire people who think about the responsibilities of owning a dog before they go down that road. For me, after being a single mom for many years, I don't want the responsibility of having a dog. They require a lot of work and can distract from your freedom. I totally love them but know that having one isn't for me right now. If someone feels that they work too much or don't have a home environment that's conducive to owning a dog, I say good for them. Too many people dive into getting a dog without thinking it through.

 

As far as crating is concerned, I think it's cruel to cage an animal for hours. How many wolves in the wild do you see relegated to caves all day long? Being caged up goes contrary to any living thing's nature.

[LostBoy.]

I've been stuck at a red light next to a kennel after hours. All you can hear is barking.

Not a great kennels then!

 

 

As a dog trainer I work with a kennel, at 6:30 you could hear a single pin drop!

In that sense kennels and crates are the same, it's not simply one size fits all.

 

 

Crates are a tool. And there a really good tool. Nothing abusive about a tool. How they're used and implemented in training is what defines whether they are 'great' or 'abusive'.

 

 

No dog should be caged in punishment, in an unsuitable or cramped environment, or for very long periods. This is detrimental to the dogs well being and hence abusive.

That means there's a lot wrong with the owner and the training but not the tool.

 

 

Crates can really be an aid for dogs with anxiety for example, but it should not be used to cover up issues like barking or destruction that are caused by boredom or aggression etc

[Noproblem]

If you think crating a dog at home for a few hours every once in a while is equivalent to an actual prison sentence or a shelter stay, I don't even know what to say to you. You really lack understanding of this issue.

 

 

 

So are dogs better of dead than being boarded or hospitalized since putting them in a crate is criminal and inhumane?

 

yes they are better dead than to put them in shelters for months in these miserable tiny cages..

but if you put them in cages for a week or two in order to make them feel better after you have treated them and because you are a facility with not enough open space. That's ok

 

Do you really want to be in a cage? No of course no

dogs also don't want to be in cages ...

It's common sense..

no one wants to be caged..

[Noproblem]

That's like saying "how would you like it if someone tied a rope to your neck and made you walk alongside them" or "how would you like it if someone made you eat your dinner out of a bowl or drink your water out of a dish on the floor" or "how would you like it if you had to squat and poop on the floor"

 

People go to the park to smell the flowers, dogs smell the other dog's crap.

 

Dogs are not the same as people, do not humanize them.

 

yes, it's false logic, but regardless of that..

humans or not

they feel pain, sadness, anger, happiness..

 

So I am not humanizing them.. I am advocating treating them in a humane way!

 

and there is a difference between humanizing them and treating them in a humane way..

 

and you are avoiding the question..

 

would you like it to be caged in a tiny place for 8 hours everyday?