Broke up but still thinking...

[thespacey1]

Gee... Thanks Ravfour4 and other posters. Makes sense.

 

I just didn't see him talking about my trip(saying he should be there) as him saying he wanted to hang out. I almost felt like he was just pitying out empty flirts to try and taunt me knowing he was gonna just pull back and not say anything else regarding "us". But that's one thing men often say about me, that I'm aloof and non-romantic, etc. I don't know why I'm like that, but I don't take hints and innuendos well. Not sure why, but I've always been like that.

 

I really appreciate this feedback. I have to keep in mind though, the back story of our relationship.

 

Ravfour4, so even if your behavior and temper were to be signed with like my ex, would you still expect me to reach our to you...? IMO, that changes things.

 

Holla!

Edited July 29, 2015 by thespacey1

[thespacey1]

Just corrected a typo in previous post. Sorry

[Meli22]

Thespacey1 I get that you miss your ex on some level, and a part of you wants to communicate with him and even have him back in your life. Its not my place to say at all but please think about that carefully, because from what you've said in this thread you weren't very happy with him and his behaviour towards you wasn't good or healthy. It's totally understandable to idealise them after a break up and miss what you had and wonder what if, but in reality they don't always change.

 

That is just my ten cents however and of course if you were to go back it would be your decision and supported by everyone. I'm just speaking from experience because I've been in your situation before, literally just weeks/months ago. I wouldn't even worry about you being the one to reach out. I wouldn't expect anything less than him crawling back on his hands and knees, but again that's just me!

[thespacey1]

Agree with other posters, only you are putting pressure on yourself. You dumped him and he was angry, most people are angry or incredibly sad when they're broken up with. You can't expect him to go all out and ask you to hang out, continually flirting with you about making brownies knowing you like that and talking about being on your trip with you is him essentially asking to hang out. Like everyone says on here - the dumper is the one who needs to reach out since they are the one who decided to do the dumping.

 

As a guy, if my ex wanted to sincerely hangout and see how things went as a couple - I'd want a "hey, after all this time I've realized that I really miss you, can we please meet up and talk? I made a mistake"

 

If you're not sure, but want to give it a shot, I'd want "hey, I miss you, can we hang out sometime soon?"

 

If you're really afraid you'll get denied, it's probably because you do still have feelings for him in which case you might as well give it a shot

 

 

Ravfour4, so even if your behavior and temper were to be signed with like my ex, would you still expect me to reach our to you...? IMO, that changes things.

[thespacey1]

Thespacey1 I get that you miss your ex on some level, and a part of you wants to communicate with him and even have him back in your life. Its not my place to say at all but please think about that carefully, because from what you've said in this thread you weren't very happy with him and his behaviour towards you wasn't good or healthy. It's totally understandable to idealise them after a break up and miss what you had and wonder what if, but in reality they don't always change.

 

That is just my ten cents however and of course if you were to go back it would be your decision and supported by everyone. I'm just speaking from experience because I've been in your situation before, literally just weeks/months ago. I wouldn't even worry about you being the one to reach out. I wouldn't expect anything less than him crawling back on his hands and knees, but again that's just me!

 

Yep, i hear everything you've said... I do.

 

Update: My ex actually texted me before i woke up this morning saying he just wanted to let me know he thought about me. Of course I was pleased but i was thinking for a while about what to say and if I'd get any ideas from this thread. I texted back, nothing mushy or over the top.

 

Just try to keep in mind, my goal is not to get back together. I'm not thinking long term with regard to contacting him. I just wanted to contact him or him to contact me. Or him to make me know that he misses me. Another poster suggested that he's done that in some of his earlier contact with me and that I can't expect but so much from someone I broke up with.

 

Well some of that I agree with and some I don't.

 

Perhaps I need to see and interact with him again under different settings/circumstances to really know. I haven't been around him to know whether or not he's made any attempts to change, get help,etc.

 

So right now, it is kind of idealized and abstract in my mind.

[thespacey1]

If you're really afraid you'll get denied, it's probably because you do still have feelings for him in which case you might as well give it a shot

Typos corrected below:

 

Ravfour4, so even if your behavior and temper were to be reckoned with like my ex's, would you still expect me to reach out to you...? IMO, that changes things.

[Meli22]

My bad.. In that case I completely understand where you're coming from. And to be honest I can bet my bottom dollar that he IS missing you. He's just too stubborn/proud to admit it and too self absorbed to realise that this is HIS fault

 

I've felt exactly the same way as you before and wanted my ex to miss me. I have no idea if he did or does, I know he was upset to a mutual friend about it all but that's all I know. I felt a lot of injustice with it all because I was like... After all you put me through, I want you to miss me and feel the pain of me not being there anymore. So yeah I totally get what you mean on that one!

[thespacey1]

My bad.. In that case I completely understand where you're coming from. And to be honest I can bet my bottom dollar that he IS missing you. He's just too stubborn/proud to admit it and too self absorbed to realise that this is HIS fault

 

I've felt exactly the same way as you before and wanted my ex to miss me. I have no idea if he did or does, I know he was upset to a mutual friend about it all but that's all I know. I felt a lot of injustice with it all because I was like... After all you put me through, I want you to miss me and feel the pain of me not being there anymore. So yeah I totally get what you mean on that one!

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Yea. I'm sure your ex was upset to a degree regretting his decision... I can truly say that being on that end of the situation, I can 50% understand someone being unsure of a break up. There are so many intangibles that exist every relationship and your as well I assume. But nobody's going to disclose all that on LS. It'd take too long and/or disclose too much specific info... I wasn't mean to my ex,however I wasn't perfect. He definitely wasn't perfect either. Thing is his reactions were 90% always over the top,in additional to other reasons for him being over the top, i.e. jealously, bad temper, and some other things that I'll keep to myself for privacy sake.

 

I try not replaying everything too much, but its hard to not think about everything in order to make a fair/sensible decision in terms of breaking up or reconciliation.

 

In love&lust, does everything have to make sense?

[surferchic]

How goes it OP?

 

How do you feel after having contact with him now?

[thespacey1]

Going OK, thanks. Nothing more to do at this point I don't think.

 

Still getting better. Heard from ex early yesterday and I responded. Im pleased about that so I don't plan on doing more. I don't feel I need to, just because I broke up with him. No I wasn't perfect in the relationship, but I wasn't controlling or mean when I got mad. So, I'm not really motivated to do much else but continue focusing on healing, my friends and family who've been in my life since forever... And just live without being too reflective of this relationship...

 

I think he actually WANTS me.to think about him and feel guilty. Each time we communicate he sends me a pic of his daughter b/c he knows how much I love her, as if she were my own. He'd often use that as spouses often do, as a control tactic...by taking her away from our place and I wouldn't be able to spend time with her all day. Then when they came back he'd send me pix of her in the house (which was his way of summoning me back home especially if I was gone all day). Weird & funny stuff...

[callmesally]

I'm glad to hear the decision to reach out to your ex. He's possibly waiting for you to initiate more or all contact, which another poster said.

 

I agree that maintaining balance of reaching out is being necessary.

 

Keep us posted.

[thespacey1]

A mutual friend (female) of me and my ex, called me today. She's my ex's best buddy's fiance. We've only hung out once coupled up. Went sailing.I don't know why, but she never , ever... Ever leaves a message. She'll text or call from time to time, but never leaves a voicemail.

 

What's strange is that whenever she contacts me seems to be when my ex hadn't heard from me. She had also contacted me (this year)around the exact same time that we all went sailing (last year) all together... Asking me if I wanted to go sailing again... I already had something planned so I couldn't go. She never made or clear if it was going to me just girls or her fiance as well with me being the 3rd wheel. I don't think my ex would have been bold enough to just show up without me knowing... Weird.. Glad I didnt go, just didn't feel right...

 

This buddy of his is a bit "interesting". His fiance is a bit weird.

 

My ex even admitted it after introducing them to me. Anyway, just thought I'd share that.

Edited July 30, 2015 by thespacey1

[muse08]

Another reason to either stay clear of your ex and any of his associations. Or, tread extra lightly with your ex.

 

Nothing like a MAN scorned.

[thespacey1]

Yeah, good advice. And I am treading lightly.

 

What to do if he makes contact?

[thespacey1]

...and I don't think he will any time soon. He knows my sister's husband pretty well and knew that they were about to have a child. So they recently had the baby and my ex fiance asked about what they might need because he wanted to get them something. Then he asked that I keep him posted on how the baby is doing. So this morning I sent him a pic of my their newborn, but he never responded. He has recently been sending me lots of pix of his daughter as has always has. When w lived together,he would even send me pix of his daughter to "summon" me home (kind of cute/borderline crafty) when I was out longer than usual...

 

When I used to text him more than call, he would get mad saying I don't even call him, because I'm too busy texting him. (Mind you we lived together)

 

Also, when I've called him recently, he always responds within several minutes. But when texting/sending the pic he didn't respond at all...not even letting me know he got it. 2 days ago he said that he wanted to bring his daughter to me when I'm free, so that I can see how much she's grown. So we establised a time next week to commect because that's when I'll be back in town from seeing some relatives. Whenever I've traveled to be with family he would act distant or like there's something wrong ,I felt he just wanted me to have my mind ON HIM...and that's exactly what happened during those times...

 

At this point,I'm not sure if he's playing some game now or he's just choosing not to even acknowledge getting pix of a little baby that he has been asking about because he's never seen the baby yet. I don't like when he chooses stupid times to be non responsive. Its a pic of a baby that I'm sending, not me... Geesh.

Edited August 2, 2015 by thespacey1

[surferchic]

If he weren't contacting you, I could saying he's using no contact no contact and doesn't want to hear from you for sure.

 

However, I'd say that he's being consistent with his emotional tactics. I'd also say that it looks like he's being successful...

 

Consider keeping your distance and as mean as this may sound, perhaps you should not be available to meet his daughter as discussed. He may be taking your kindness for weaknesses.

 

Flip side, maybe he didn't even get the pix. I've had it happen to me several times as the sender and recipient.

[thespacey1]

My gut tells me that he did, receive the pictures I sent. Although, I'll never be absolutely certain. I feel like one of the posters is right about him playing on my emotions.

 

Let me clarify the BIG issue with this relationship and me leaving him. I should have clarified this in my initial post, although it doesn't much difference:

 

√ He was clearly caught off guard the day and time that I told him, "we need to split and move into our separate places. If it means we breakup completely then, so be it." It was the morning after we stayed home all day playing video games, making love and eating pizza... It was a laid back day for us. (Still in my mind i could not forget that around that time other issues still existed to the point where I was miserable in general, except for the few days that were actually "laid back".)

 

√ He spoke about that several times, asking me what happened to make me say that to him. He asked me about it a few times during those following weeks, saying that out of nowhere I said I wanted to leave him.

 

 

√he felt the need to make sure I was not trying to " use" him because he just didn't trust people/women. He'd say things like, "Look, we have extremely good sex. But you need to know I ain't no 'tender d*ck' dude. Your ##### might be good as *****,but don't think that you can do anything you want in this relationship because of that..." I was always wishing he'd stop saying that. I never tried using him. I even tried giving things back to him if I felt they were excessive or too expensive. But he'd get offended. Crazy!

 

√So his narrative has been: " I just don't understand what happened overnight for you to say that we need to breakup. We were having a good time that night. Then we wake up ate breakfast and out of nowhere you're telling me we need to move and breakup? I told you that I didn't want you to move, but you insisted."

 

Ah, yeah. I did insist over those following weeks and months because he would be fine for a few days or a week, then something would set him off, i.e. work, me, his daughter, his brother, father, his buddies, etc. And he always blamed someone else for upsetting him. In addition to that, when I'd speak up for myself or anybody else in his family, he'd get mad. Then I noticed certain things about his life that would not make me safe in the long term. So all that contributed to me leaving. And I told him that, but he still acted confused and angry about perhaps the timing of me telling him I was leaving. I told him twice.

 

He was in denial for a while saying that he didn't think I was going to go through with the move and had hope that we'd work things out.

 

 

During the time he actually started preparing to leave, he starting getting more moody, drinking and acting weirder than usual. We continued to sleep together and be intimate.

Edited August 2, 2015 by thespacey1

[thespacey1]

Sorry for the length of the previous post but it helps me to remember details. And not even to speak bad about him,but to see how non-trusting he was and insecure as well. I feel like I'm truly going to have let go of communication with him sooner than later mainly because it's draining trying to be nice/mature and have contact with him regarding mutual friends& family. Its almost like being together.... at some point I had to start getting real with him, not care how upset he got.

 

At this point I'm feeling like moving away to another state and changing my number so I'm not tempted to respond to or contact him and I'll eventually forget his number and none of his friends will be able to contact me to signify or tell me about him.

[thespacey1]

If he weren't contacting you, I could saying he's using no contact no contact and doesn't want to hear from you for sure.

 

However, I'd say that he's being consistent with his emotional tactics. I'd also say that it looks like he's being successful...

 

Consider keeping your distance and as mean as this may sound, perhaps you should not be available to meet his daughter as discussed. He may be taking your kindness for weaknesses.

 

Flip side, maybe he didn't even get the pix. I've had it happen to me several times as the sender and recipient.

 

Yeah, I thought about not contacting him to follow through with seeing his daughter, as mean as it sounds. I'm not sure how to handle that yet. Ideas are welcomed please)))

 

@Flip side... Ah, well anything is possible.

[surferchic]

Not sure what avoiding him is going to accomplish or say.

 

Do what will give you the most peace and dignity,if that makes sense.

[thespacey1]

Thanks...

 

Makes sense. Even though he did end up making further contact in response to the pix (he asked for), I'm in a weird space right now. Don't feel motivated to even seen his daughter because that's involves making more contact w/him.

[thespacey1]

Today is an "ok" day. Been so busy taking care of errands, etc to the point that I hadn't thought much about him the past 2 days.

 

I have a friend/guy that I see from time to time because he's a handy man. We also used to date... He also asked me to marry him and have his child about 3yrs ago , even after we'd already been intimate. He's tried getting together to "date" again, during and after my breakup. I had to turn him away while with my fiance of course, and now as well because I don't feel like he's the marrying type, honestly but nonetheless a"cool" guy . we both still career for one another in many ways, but its different now. My fiance actually called him to tell him to stop contacting me while I was engaged. We're still friends and he consoled me while I was going through emotional hell with my fiance. It's the quiet times that I reflect on my fiance or when I'm with family or other couples, that I think of him... "Us". I wish the thoughts would disappear...

 

I feel numb almost to the thought of my fiance now, weird... When thinking of him now I don't get tingly to much anymore, which is true PROGRESS for ME.

 

I just looked at old pictures of us in a photo album that I packed away. I didn't feel sentimental like I used to. I'd almost forgotten what he looked like, but i got a negative vibe from seeing his pix,even of us together. Weird...

 

So I'm not sure if I need to connect with his daughter/him at all this weekend. Since I'm making this minimal PROGRESS, I don't want to regress. In sure his daughter will be fine without seeing me since she's so young, even though she interacted with me as if she were my own because she stayed with my fiance and I every weekend. If you have a suggestion about this please do share.

 

Thank you so much

[sacg]

Spacey, I agree with Rav4 that your exFiance might have strong traits of a personality disorder like BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). The behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, paranoia, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling behavior, feeling of entitlement, lack of empathy, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exFiance has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exFiance exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as strong verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, and irrational jealousy.

 

 

Perhaps you are seeing warning signs for bipolar. That is not what you seem to be describing, however. The rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) are a hallmark of having strong BPD traits. Because a BPDer carries enormous hurt and rage from early childhood, you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to say or do some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of the anger that's always there. This is why a BPDer can flip from adoration to hatred in just ten seconds.

 

With respect to bipolar, the mood swings tend to be far slower -- usually taking a week or two to develop -- because they arise from gradual changes in body chemistry, which typically takes far more time. Granted, it is possible for a bipolar sufferer to be an ultra-rapid cycler, but that behavior is quite rare. If you're interested in reading about more differences, please see my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences.

 

As I noted above, I cannot know whether his BPD traits are strong because I've never met the guy. Yet, if you decide they are strong, I can tell you that BPDers (i.e., folks having strong traits) usually sincerely believe the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths. And then -- a week later when they are saying the exact opposite -- they likely are convinced THAT is true too.

 

BPDers are so immature that they are unable to manage their emotions. The result is that they experience such intense feelings that their judgment flies out the window. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion," which refers to the way intense feelings distort the BPDer's perception of your intentions and motivations.

 

Do his temper tantrums erupt around total strangers, even when you are not involved? For example, does he frequently exhibit rages in a work environment or road rage when driving? I ask because such behavior would be a red flag for IED (Intermittent Explosive Disorder), which is NOT a personality disorder. People suffering from IED typically are very apologetic and quick to admit fault after they have time to cool down (as you say your exFiance did in the early stages of your relationship).

 

In contrast, a BPDer is so filled with self loathing and insecurity that he is loath to ever admit a mistake or flaw. The last thing a BPDer wants to find is one more mistake to add to the long list of things he hates about himself.

 

If he actually has strong BPD traits, the type of emotional "immaturity" you would be seeing is not that of a 15- or 18-year-old. Rather, it would be that of a 4-year-old. Due to a childhood trauma and/or heredity, a BPDer's emotional development typically is frozen at that young level. He therefore is fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses we all must rely on as very young children. These include, e.g., projection, temper tantrums, denial, black-white thinking, and magical thinking.

 

The repeated breaking of laws is a warning sign for Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e., "APD" or "sociopathy") -- not for BPD. Yet, if he exhibits strong APD traits, he is incapable of actually loving anyone. I mention this because you seem to believe he really did love you (e.g., "He so giving and kind"). I note that BPDers, like young children, are capable of loving very intensely, albeit in an immature manner. I also note that having strong traits of one PD does not rule out having strong traits of another one too. On the contrary, most people having BPD also have one or two other PDs.

 

If he has strong BPD traits, walking away typically is very painful. One reason is that you will mistakenly believe that, if you only were to figure out what YOU were doing wrong, you could somehow fix him and restore him to that wonderful man you saw at the beginning. A second reason is that the repeated swings between adoration and devaluation can become as addictive as the swings between ecstatic highs and painful withdrawals so characteristic of heroine and cocaine.

 

A third reason is that BPDers exhibit a passion, vulnerability, and purity of emotional expression that is extremely childlike. Hence, leaving a BPDer can feel as painful as leaving behind a young child. But, of course, this means you're not walking away from a wife/husband relationship but, rather, from a parent/child relationship. If this is the case, he would make a very poor choice for a husband.

 

I agree with all the other respondents that you should not contact your exFiance. Yet, if you ever feel strongly tempted to take him back, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you've been dealing with.

 

I also suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of these warning signs at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Rav4 and other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exFiance's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful experience -- i.e., avoid taking him back and avoid running into the arms of another man just like the one you left (if he has strong BPD traits). Take care, Spacey.

 

You, my man...are the nuts. So educated on this. helped me a lot dude. I thank you brother

[Meli22]

Today is an "ok" day. Been so busy taking care of errands, etc to the point that I hadn't thought much about him the past 2 days.

 

I have a friend/guy that I see from time to time because he's a handy man. We also used to date... He also asked me to marry him and have his child about 3yrs ago , even after we'd already been intimate. He's tried getting together to "date" again, during and after my breakup. I had to turn him away while with my fiance of course, and now as well because I don't feel like he's the marrying type, honestly but nonetheless a"cool" guy . we both still career for one another in many ways, but its different now. My fiance actually called him to tell him to stop contacting me while I was engaged. We're still friends and he consoled me while I was going through emotional hell with my fiance. It's the quiet times that I reflect on my fiance or when I'm with family or other couples, that I think of him... "Us". I wish the thoughts would disappear...

 

I feel numb almost to the thought of my fiance now, weird... When thinking of him now I don't get tingly to much anymore, which is true PROGRESS for ME.

 

I just looked at old pictures of us in a photo album that I packed away. I didn't feel sentimental like I used to. I'd almost forgotten what he looked like, but i got a negative vibe from seeing his pix,even of us together. Weird...

 

So I'm not sure if I need to connect with his daughter/him at all this weekend. Since I'm making this minimal PROGRESS, I don't want to regress. In sure his daughter will be fine without seeing me since she's so young, even though she interacted with me as if she were my own because she stayed with my fiance and I every weekend. If you have a suggestion about this please do share.

 

Thank you so much

 

I'd cut contact completely, even with his daughter. I get that you miss her and stuff, but she isn't your daughter or responsibility. You shouldn't feel obliged at all to remain connected with her in any way. If you do you'll always be in contact with him. He knows this, hence why he uses her as a ploy to reel you back in, every time. The sad thing is with break ups we lose touch with other people too, not just the ex. But sadly that's life. Our own well being is far more important than keeping in touch with these people, especially if they are children.

[thespacey1]

I'd cut contact completely, even with his daughter. I get that you miss her and stuff, but she isn't your daughter or responsibility. You shouldn't feel obliged at all to remain connected with her in any way. If you do you'll always be in contact with him. He knows this, hence why he uses her as a ploy to reel you back in, every time. The sad thing is with break ups we lose touch with other people too, not just the ex. But sadly that's life. Our own well being is far more important than keeping in touch with these people, especially if they are children.

 

Yea...I agree. And I think I'll take that advice. I've been telling myself that over the past few days. Plus my friends are more concerned that I SHOULD NOT let him know where I stay. True as well.

 

I have all the same concerns.