Your experience with Dating down ?

[Treasa]

That is exactly what happened. He was really into me, I even was not-so-nice with him at one point and he let it slide and kept asking me out. Then he told me he felt like he could not read me, had no clue if I was into him at all etc so I changed my tactic and started showing interest and POOF! gone.

 

I admittedly stopped reading at this point. This alone would be enough to make me say, "Not worth it. I'll find someone who's nice from the get-go."

 

Also, I don't believe in "dating down." For me, looks are subjective, and adjust according to personality.

[GemmaUK]

I could be far wrong but I am trying to get into his head here.

 

Started out as dates and I am assuming nice dates, drinks, dinner and dressing up.

Date 3 - what happened on date three? What were the plans and how did you end up sleeping together?

You seemed coolish towards him on date one and two and then bam, sex on date three.

You go on other dates all ending in sleeping together.

You get home from your hols and you don't mind (or so it seems to him) that he hasn't been in touch for 3 days.

All this while also you set no boundaries of 'don't call me after a reasonable time'.

 

He's a man and would expect to work a bit to get to hit the sack stage with a lady.

I suspect he has no clue as to whether you want a relationship or whether he is just your sex toy.

This makes me understand his questioning of missing kisses - it seems a bit OTT for a sex toy type/FWB situation - that is what he thinks this is with you as all signs point to it.

He's had to make little effort, you are so laid back you are horizontal about everything and every time you meet you are also horizontal (pardon the pun).

[Gaeta]

It doesn't matter how I felt so-so about him at first. I grew quickly into him and now I'd prefer him over all the hot stuff I dated in the past.

[phineas]

Now I'm curious. What did you say?

 

I told her the Sex was boring.

 

she refused to have sex with the lights on or any position other than missionary & wouldn't perform oral.

 

When I wanted to do anything more than the standard she said "i'm not a whore"

 

so I broke up with her.

[katiegrl]

He did not call back an hour later. I am not impressed. He tells me he can't read me and he can't tell if I'm into it with him and when I allow myself some vulnerability I get this.

 

Gaeta, try not to be mad, he just gave you some great and valuable info and it's not unlike what other men have told you too.

 

You said yourself you were "not very nice" sometimes but he still asked you out?

 

How were you *not very nice*? What were some of the things you did that were "not so nice"? I KNOW you are into him now, talking about before you fell for him. You were not very nice? Why?

 

Don't get mad at me, but I am wondering, I know you love "attention" from men, but do you *like* men?

 

You sure you are not subconsciously *angry* at men? Because of (1) the abuse you experienced by your ex-husband, and (2) being invisible to men until the age of 45 when you decided to make yourself more attractive?

 

Because based on what this guy AND other men have told you (i.e. can't read you, cannot tell how you feel), apparently you are giving off some sort of vibe (aloofness, apathy, nonchalance, anger? (albeit subtle).....that is giving them the impression that maybe you don't give a shyt.

 

I know you don't *intend* to give off this vibe, like you said you think you are being vulnerable....but because so many men have essentially said the same thing, I think this possibility is worth exploring.

 

If you just get mad and say screw him, he is just like all the others, they all just want to fu*k me, then disappear eventually..... you will never get anywhere, and the same thing will keep happening.

 

I dunno, I could be way off, but then again, maybe not.

 

What do you think? Am I way off?

Edited July 19, 2015 by katiegrl

[Redhead14]

It doesn't matter how I felt so-so about him at first. I grew quickly into him and now I'd prefer him over all the hot stuff I dated in the past.

 

It does matter how you felt about him at first. You felt wishy washy, and now he's treating you that way. He's confirming the vibe you gave.

 

Not only that, you decided to date him and not really caring if it continued, but now that he losing interest, you want him. This is classic rebound behavior. You thought you had him at hello, but when it seems hes saying goodbye and theres nothing better on the horizon, you change to accommodate and figure out how to adjust and get him interested again.

 

If you want to try to keep it going, sit back and let him keep showing you one way or the other what he wants. Let him call you first or text from this poi t first for a while. Observe how he's behaving. If he calls late at night let it go

To voicemail and return the call the next day. If he calls you last minute, dont accept. Offer an alternate date. And dont sleep with him for a little while again. Hit the reset button. Slow this down and observe how he makes you feel.

[Versacehottie]

Wrong again. It is only dating down if the other has no self-worth or love and feels like: 'oh she really must be dating down with me'.

 

She probably gave vibes being emotionally-unavailable.

 

I actually don't think that OP would give emotionally unavailable vibes. She posts here a lot and that's just not how she seems. She is very open.

 

I do think it's possible that by being so open for a relationship in general, the guy will get the impression that he has done nothing special himself to earn that relationship thus it loses it's appeal, like a new toy. Everyone has an ego involved in a relationship that likes to believe there was something special about him that unlocked the door to more with her. Not that the door was unlocked already.

[Brigit_1]

I told her the Sex was boring.

 

she refused to have sex with the lights on or any position other than missionary & wouldn't perform oral.

 

When I wanted to do anything more than the standard she said "i'm not a whore"

 

so I broke up with her.

 

I guess being told she's a crappy fu*k didn't sit well. Sounds like she didn't really want to have sex and did it to please you. Why any woman would want to have sex missionary style is beyond me but that is another thread.

 

(Thanks for sharing. )

[candie13]

He did not call back an hour later. I am not impressed. He tells me he can't read me and he can't tell if I'm into it with him and when I allow myself some vulnerability I get this.

 

he's jerking your chain. words are nice, but if you truly want to know what a guy's thinking, watch his actions.

 

what do you mean he can call you late? how about you and your time and your sleep ? hoW about your boundaries?

 

lose the guy. he's not the one. cheers.

[Brigit_1]

he's jerking your chain. words are nice, but if you truly want to know what a guy's thinking, watch his actions.

 

what do you mean he can call you late? how about you and your time and your sleep ? hoW about your boundaries?

 

lose the guy. he's not the one. cheers.

 

I agree. You can do better. This time: Date Up.

[Itspointless]

I actually don't think that OP would give emotionally unavailable vibes. She posts here a lot and that's just not how she seems. She is very open.

I don't know Versacehottie, it can be either way. Many unavailable people actually are really open and sociable to strangers.

[katiegrl]

 

 

**I actually don't think that OP would give emotionally unavailable vibes.***

 

She posts here a lot and that's just not how she seems. She is very open.

 

 

 

I do think it's possible that by being so open for a relationship in general, the guy will get the impression that he has done nothing special himself to earn that relationship thus it loses it's appeal, like a new toy. Everyone has an ego involved in a relationship that likes to believe there was something special about him that unlocked the door to more with her. Not that the door was unlocked already.

 

Versacehottie.... I think she might be (subconsciously). . Or vibes that she's not really into it (like this guy told her!).

 

Oh sure, she is definitely *available* for a relationship... no doubt! Ofen times, too available..... too open. Almost desperate.

 

But is she REALLY *into* the particular guy she is open to having a relationship with?

 

The guys may feel they could be anyone, as long as he is MAN, good job, appears stable, decent looking, attracted to her, she's open to a relationship with him!

 

What is missing is that chemistry (between them), that connection, the emotional availability... maybe it is hard for them to define exactly.....just a vibe they get that he could be any man. Not someone she thinks is *special* .....the man who stands out, who is different from the others..... the man she has been waiting for.

 

I myself am somewhat astounded at how many men Gaeta has attempted to have a relationship with over the months.

 

It takes me and I think most people a long time, and meeting many many people before we find that one special person we wish to embark on a relationship with.

[Versacehottie]

I don't know Versacehottie, it can be either way. Many unavailable people actually are really open and sociable to strangers.

 

hmmmmm, I'll look for that But I wasn't talking about OP's interactions with us on LS. Her posts over time regarding her relationships. I would say that her date's comment about not knowing how to read her might give some weight to your position though. I think he meant that though because she went from lukewarm to hot and has some arbitrary timeframes in her head that he is not aware of and in tune with. Also if you are sexual open in timeframe she has been with him and open your home to the guy, acting 'as if' you are in a relationship for some purposes but then still needing the courting etc, it's confusing to the guy. I think his actions say that he is not invested and not that into it. I think (could be wrong) that saying he can't read her is a tiny reason or excuse but not indicative of the whole real reason. Sorry, Gaeta.

[Gaeta]

I could be far wrong but I am trying to get into his head here.

 

Started out as dates and I am assuming nice dates, drinks, dinner and dressing up.

Date 3 - what happened on date three? What were the plans and how did you end up sleeping together?

You seemed coolish towards him on date one and two and then bam, sex on date three.

You go on other dates all ending in sleeping together.

You get home from your hols and you don't mind (or so it seems to him) that he hasn't been in touch for 3 days.

All this while also you set no boundaries of 'don't call me after a reasonable time'.

 

He's a man and would expect to work a bit to get to hit the sack stage with a lady.

I suspect he has no clue as to whether you want a relationship or whether he is just your sex toy.

This makes me understand his questioning of missing kisses - it seems a bit OTT for a sex toy type/FWB situation - that is what he thinks this is with you as all signs point to it.

He's had to make little effort, you are so laid back you are horizontal about everything and every time you meet you are also horizontal (pardon the pun).

 

Date 3 we had dinner, then we went to a movie. After the movie he walked me to my car, we kissed good bye and I came home. He asked me to call him upon my arrival.

 

When I got home I called him to let him know and he asked me why I was so in a hurry to leave after the movie that he would have liked we spend more time together and he had offered me earlier to go for a stroll by the canal and I had never replied.

 

I was confused because I didn't remember him asking for a stroll, he said: don't you remember between the restaurant and the movies I said what a beautiful night for a stroll? I said yes I remember but it didn't sound like an invitation to me, it sounded like you were making a comment on the nice weather.

 

That lead us into a conversation about how I am hard to read and he feels I am not on board, etc. Then he said the night is young lets go for that stroll. I said I am not driving back into town but he's welcome to come over. That's how intimacy started.

 

Once I am intimate with a man there is no going back to platonic dating. Yes dates end with sex because that's what I want. I don't know how people can have good sex than go on with platonic dates and just kiss good bye.

 

The time of the phone call was not disrespectful as we are in a habit of calling late, I can call him till 1 am, and he can call me up to midnight. We went through that already.

[Versacehottie]

Versacehottie.... I think she might be (subconsciously). . Or vibes that she's not really into it (like this guy told her!).

 

Oh sure, she is definitely *available* for a relationship... no doubt! Ofen times, too available..... too open. Almost desperate.

 

But is she REALLY *into* the particular guy she is open to having a relationship with?

 

The guys may feel they could be anyone, as long as he is MAN, good job, appears stable, decent looking, attracted to her, she's open to a relationship with him!

 

What is missing is that chemistry (between them), that connection, the emotional availability... maybe it is hard for them to define exactly.....just a vibe they get that he could be any man. Not someone she thinks is *special* .....the man who stands out, who is different from the others..... the man she has been waiting for.

 

I myself am somewhat astounded at how many men Gaeta has attempted to have a relationship with over the months.

 

It takes me and I think most people a long time, and meeting many many people before we find that one special person we wish to embark on a relationship with.

 

Yes, I agree. That's what my original post on this thread was about. You can't want a relationship so much that the person doesn't feel special. Circle into a square, whatever I said. Plus if she feels like she is "dating down", well most smart people will get the vibe that the only reason she is doing this is because she desperately wants a relationship with anyone, which will be a turn off for the guy. And no particular chemistry, just trying to make it fit for sake of having a relationship--one or the other will bail at some point because it will feel that it is being forced.

[Itspointless]

hmmmmm, I'll look for that

Well at least that goes for people when we look at attachment theory, people who have a positive image of themselves, but a less positive outlook on others. Someone can be avoidant while most of the people who know him or her do not know as they know them as outgoing. For example one of my best friends disappeared from the radar when he was in the hospital. His parents and me included weren't invited to visit during that time, thus while he was vulnerable. After that time he just came back into the picture. Of-course I have talked with him about it.

[Gaeta]

Gaeta, try not to be mad, he just gave you some great and valuable info and it's not unlike what other men have told you too.

 

You said yourself you were "not very nice" sometimes but he still asked you out?

 

How were you *not very nice*? What were some of the things you did that were "not so nice"? I KNOW you are into him now, talking about before you fell for him. You were not very nice? Why?

 

Don't get mad at me, but I am wondering, I know you love "attention" from men, but do you *like* men?

 

You sure you are not subconsciously *angry* at men? Because of (1) the abuse you experienced by your ex-husband, and (2) being invisible to men until the age of 45 when you decided to make yourself more attractive?

 

Because based on what this guy AND other men have told you (i.e. can't read you, cannot tell how you feel), apparently you are giving off some sort of vibe (aloofness, apathy, nonchalance, anger? (albeit subtle).....that is giving them the impression that maybe you don't give a shyt.

 

I know you don't *intend* to give off this vibe, like you said you think you are being vulnerable....but because so many men have essentially said the same thing, I think this possibility is worth exploring.

 

If you just get mad and say screw him, he is just like all the others, they all just want to fu*k me, then disappear eventually..... you will never get anywhere, and the same thing will keep happening.

 

I dunno, I could be way off, but then again, maybe not.

 

What do you think? Am I way off?

 

I read that post with a lot of interest. You are underlining a few things that I can identify with.

 

I was not nice to him once when he left my text unattended then he contacted me to go out and I said: Is that normal to you to just ignore people's communication?? I am busy all day, no I don't have any free time, bye!

 

He called the following day. He said You're were a bit prompt with me yesterday....would you like to go out tonight?

 

It's possible unconsciously I hold a grudge against men and even look down on them. Yes, that's totally possible.

 

I think him and I need a conversation.

[katiegrl]

Gaeta, I don't know what exactly is going on.....but he is definitely NOT yanking your chain as another poster suggested.

 

Talk to him! Heart to heart.

 

By the way, when he did not return your text to him three days ago (which prompted you to assume he went POOF)..... did it not occur to shoot him another, I mean he is essentially your boyfriend..... were you not concerned that something may have happened?

 

That is what most women (and men) do when they *care*. They just don't assume they are being dumped.

 

Unless they are incredibly insecure and subconsciously believe all men are dogs who will eventually dump them. Is that how you feel?

 

Jmo, but I think he needed you to follow up three days ago. You did nothing except assume he dumped you!

 

Three days is NOT that long. He contacted you and obviously wants to talk. Don't talk to him. In person....heart to heart.

[katiegrl]

I read that post with a lot of interest. You are underlining a few things that I can identify with.

 

I was not nice to him once when he left my text unattended then he contacted me to go out and I said: Is that normal to you to just ignore people's communication?? I am busy all day, no I don't have any free time, bye!

 

He called the following day. He said You're were a bit prompt with me yesterday....would you like to go out tonight?

 

****It's possible unconsciously I hold a grudge against men and even look down on them. Yes, that's totally possible. ****

 

I think him and I need a conversation.

 

Finally.....a breakthrough!

 

Yes yes talk to him! Yay!!!!!:bunny:

[Gaeta]

By the way, when he did not return your text to him three days ago (which prompted you to assume he went POOF)..... did it not occur to shoot him another, I mean he is essentially your boyfriend..... were you not concerned that something may have happened?

 

I did send him another text the following day. On the 3rd day I didn't send any.

 

That is what most women (and men) do when they *care*. They just don't assume they are being dumped.

 

Unless they are incredibly insecure and subconsciously believe all men are dogs who will eventually dump them. Is that how you feel?

hhmmmm thinking real hard..........................yes. That's how I feel most of the time.

[katiegrl]

Gaeta, I don't know what exactly is going on.....but he is definitely NOT yanking your chain as another poster suggested.

 

Talk to him! Heart to heart.

 

By the way, when he did not return your text to him three days ago (which prompted you to assume he went POOF)..... did it not occur to shoot him another, I mean he is essentially your boyfriend..... were you not concerned that something may have happened?

 

That is what most women (and men) do when they *care*. They just don't assume they are being dumped.

 

Unless they are incredibly insecure and subconsciously believe all men are dogs who will eventually dump them. Is that how you feel?

 

Jmo, but I think he needed you to follow up three days ago. You did nothing except assume he dumped you!

 

Three days is NOT that long. He contacted you and obviously wants to talk. **Don't talk to him. ***In person....heart to heart.

 

Sorry, I meant "just" talk to him!

 

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Versacehottie]

If I may >>>>

 

I think you obviously must be very good looking to many because you have no problem getting in the door with the quantity of dates you've had over the time I've seen your posts.

 

I do think that you probably come on quite strong and give the impression that you are desperate for a relationship. I also think there is a seriousness involved where the guys are perceiving if they were in a relationship with you it would be a lot of drama and talks. You should try to just have more fun. That said, I think you are being true to your personality and it will be right for someone. While I think your widely-appealing good looks, which get you in the door rather easily, I think you might be expecting or assuming you will have similar easy results with your personality and deeper matters but yours is a more specific taste.

 

I'm not saying you ARE desperate. For some guy the forthrightness will be exactly what he is looking for. It's just not as widely accepted as perhaps your looks are.

 

I do think you need to relax some of the rules and such you put in place as a measure of how interested a guy is into you. And evaluate their actions on a case by case basis. I think that will help for you.

[GemmaUK]

I did send him another text the following day. On the 3rd day I didn't send any.

 

hhmmmm thinking real hard..........................yes. That's how I feel most of the time.

 

 

You need to get rid of that thought. it makes you sound like you think you are unworthy.

 

You also seem to go from dating to sex and see sex as intimacy.

Intimacy is way more than just sex.

The bit you said about not going back to platonic dating after sex has happened - um - well no one goes back to platonic dating but dating gives a chance for actual intimacy to grow. Intimacy in terms of closeness.

My dating and relationships which haven't been 'intimate' are akin to flogging a dead horse.

 

Maybe these guys who have said you are hard to read, intimidating and aloof (as it is more than this one guy) are missing the intimacy but just don't know how to explain it.

[GemmaUK]

I'm sitting here watching a film called Hector and the Search for Happiness.

 

In his notebook he just wrote down #11. Loving is listening.

This were words said to him by young woman who is dying but he cared and listened and looked after her through a flight. Mostly though, he just listened.

 

It's reminded me of a few times with me and my Dad after my Mum had passed away - he or I was not in a great place or just needed a shoulder and we were right there for each other. We were world's apart when Mum was alive.

 

Older men have the ability to do this is they have led a life as do older women.

It goes way beyond teen and early twenties dating though sometimes you do find it in younger ones - I did with the man I met at 22.

 

Maybe this is the thing that is missing.

Sitting here and thinking about it that is the intimacy I have not had in the 3 brief relationships (all less than a year) I have had since I split with my LT ex - the one I met at 22.

 

I wouldn't want to date him again but there are qualities in him that I still look for.

[katiegrl]

I'm sitting here watching a film called Hector and the Search for Happiness.

 

In his notebook he just wrote down #11. Loving is listening.

This were words said to him by young woman who is dying but he cared and listened and looked after her through a flight. Mostly though, he just listened.

 

It's reminded me of a few times with me and my Dad after my Mum had passed away - he or I was not in a great place or just needed a shoulder and we were right there for each other. We were world's apart when Mum was alive.

 

Older men have the ability to do this is they have led a life as do older women.

It goes way beyond teen and early twenties dating though sometimes you do find it in younger ones - I did with the man I met at 22.

 

Maybe this is the thing that is missing.

Sitting here and thinking about it that is the intimacy I have not had in the 3 brief relationships (all less than a year) I have had since I split with my LT ex - the one I met at 22.

 

I wouldn't want to date him again but there are qualities in him that I still look for.

 

I agree Gemma....and along with listening is "understanding," or attempting to understand your partner's feelings and "their" reactions.

 

It might not be how you (generic you) would feel in the same situation or how you would react..... but that does not mean how they feel and how they react is "wrong". Or as meaning the same thing it would mean for you had you reacted that way.

 

Just different.

 

It is so important not to assume and just communicate. I don't even believe when someone is doing the fade, to just let them fade. You have NO idea why he/she is fading!

 

It could be because of something totally opposite from what you are assuming. And if it is a relationship of some duration, sexually exclusive, etc.....find out! Talk about it! With an open mind, and open heart.

 

THAT is how true intimacy is developed. I have always known this (don't know how I just did,)....but it took my bf a LONG time to realize and learn that just cause my responses and reactions were different from his, did not mean I did not care! Amoing other things he "assumed" they meant.

 

Listening, understanding, and empathy go a long way in developing real intimacy with your partner, and a happy and harmonious relationship.......IMHO.

Edited July 19, 2015 by katiegrl