Staying for the kids

[Popsicle]

I was thinking about this in general and I totally get how and why this is important but I do wonder if there is ever a point (meaning: when) that you reach where it becomes okay to live for YOU, not your kids? Is it when they grow up and go off and get married themselves? Is it when they simply move out of the house? Is it when they are of legal age? Or, is it never?

[casey.lives]

when they turn 5 that they are full time in school .. that they are discovering their separate identity.. you will naturally be reconnecting with yourself and it's healthy. parents can become codependents with children and that's damaging to their future relationships. a parents job is to raise a healthy independent person capable of both love and work. it's the parents job to lead by example.

[minimariah]

I was thinking about this in general and I totally get how and why this is important but I do wonder if there is ever a point (meaning: when) that you reach where it becomes okay to live for YOU, not your kids? Is it when they grow up and go off and get married themselves? Is it when they simply move out of the house? Is it when they are of legal age? Or, is it never?

 

to my parents, it was when i moved out to go to college.

 

divorce is ALWAYS hard and it's actually easier with young kids... but i'm glad my parents decided to "wait it out" until my college. it allowed me to have a certain stability & to focus on my studies.

 

however - my parents had a really clear arrangement. they knew what it was and how long it will last.

[Popsicle]

however - my parents had a really clear arrangement. they knew what it was and how long it will last.

 

They told you this? If so, when did the tell you?

[No Limit]

A friend from my highschool class has had nervous breakdowns several times throughout the year at school - don't know how much she must have cried at home. She also told us once how she begged her parents to divorce. Haven't had much understanding for this "I stay for the kids" type of thinking since.

[autumnnight]

I regret waiting as long as I did. None of my kids have interest in ever marrying, and they are very vocal about why:

 

What is the point? I thought you were supposed to marry because you loved someone, not because you want a roommate. I can get a roommate cheaper.

 

And no, I did not discuss our marital problems with them, except my own mistakes. They have eyes and ears.

[minimariah]

They told you this? If so, when did the tell you?

 

years later, when i straight up asked my father did he have an A. when i met his new partner -- i saw the way they interact and it was obvious that they were long-term lovers. it's just something you can feel in the air + i was suspicious... so i asked him, asked for total honesty & he sat down and told me everything.

 

then i went to my mother and then we ALL had a chat and that was it. just to be clear - they never put that on me... as in, they never said that they had stayed together JUST for me. there were many other reasons, obviously & at the moment... staying together until the time is right was something that worked for them at that time.

 

my parents had a few "rough patches" in their marriage but there was never any tension or huge fights. i always felt at peace and happy with them.

 

later, when i started thinking about it -- i remembered them having a good relationship and close friendship (that had continued until this day) BUT 0 passion. they did ocassionaly kiss on lips... but there was 0 passion between them. when comparing it to the relationship between my father & his OW (now wife) and my mother & her partner... the difference is HUGE and obvious. so i guess that was the bad side of "staying for the kids" - it takes you a little longer to figure out that passion is NECESSARY in any relationship... let alone a marriage.

Edited July 18, 2015 by minimariah

[Satu]

I declared my own independence when I left home at the age of not quite 17.

 

I never took a penny from them from them from then on, and I never slept there another night.

 

So you could say that I also gave them their independence from me

[Popsicle]

my parents had a few "rough patches" in their marriage but there was never any tension or huge fights. i always felt at peace and happy with them.

 

Ahh, this is key and explains why you thought it was better for them to stay together. You thought they were happy! Perhaps, like other couples, if you had saw, through their tensions that they were so unhappy/miserable with each other, then you may have wanted them to divorce.

 

I think there are couples like your parents who "stay for the kids" and I can see why they would come to this decision. Their kids whole image would be devastated, but there are also couples who have tension and the kids know it and wish that they would split so they can be happier.

[Popsicle]

I declared my own independence when I left home at the age of not quite 17.

 

I never took a penny from them from them from then on, and I never slept there another night.

 

So you could say that I also gave them their independence from me

 

Yeah, some kids are like you, I was, and then others are dependent on their parents a lot longer. My friends was just telling me about her boyfriends kids, one of which is 30, and her boyfriend (his dad) still treats him like a small child.

 

But this thread is not to complain or focus on the kids being dependent or independent. It's about the parents and their patterns and motives for "Staying for the kids".

[Tayla]

because sometimes a family unit still consists of the roles of each members. They might just be the best dern Dad in the world and worthy of completing that task. Staying under the same roof can work when the married couple respect their roles even if the wife or husband role take a back seat. This of course is not for everyone though. My one friend stayed in her marriage because the one son was disabled and she and her husband knew that divorcing would bring more complications for various reasons. Reckon they loved each other as friends but the intimacy stopped there and they seemed to muddle thru. Where i have a problem is with the selfish spouse who puts their so called "needs" above all else. Addictions, philandering, abuse... those are activities that call for intervention and sometimes divorce.

[Phoenician]

Yeah, some kids are like you, I was, and then others are dependent on their parents a lot longer. My friends was just telling me about her boyfriends kids, one of which is 30, and her boyfriend (his dad) still treats him like a small child.

 

But this thread is not to complain or focus on the kids being dependent or independent. It's about the parents and their patterns and motives for "Staying for the kids".

 

Ps I'm sorry that u r not doing well in your marriage ;I came back home for the kids recently after a separation for few month . the main idea is that you should see two important factors

 

-your ability and their to cope ,and their way of thinking, some kids are not emotional by nature ,as well as their parents,you should see my 6 years old boy when I decided to build a tree house with him ! and u should see my face too

- the return on investment for every step to u and kids .like if I divorce my wife will get everything she wants (talking about kids here),and I will be broken heart away from my kids .

we are gradually approaching the peaceful planned divorce , which will take years,if we reach an agreement about open marriage then it will be good too.

 

Parents who stay really for the kids are willing to sacrifice for their kids more than to old or ne partners ,it is good if the overall ROi is better with staying.

I believe I fall in that category , until at least my girls are in university and boy is older.

[Minnie09]

According to my MM, it'll happen when they move out and on to college. Which will be soon. To me, that is an excuse. I don't believe it, and I think it's just buying him time. I'm not putting any pressure on him, so I think it's the "deadline" he sets for himself. I don't think he'll eventually D, I think it's something he just tells himself, so he doesn't have to act right away. What I mean is that his decision to D will have to wait, will be be delayed "for the sake of the kids". But it's really for him.

 

I personally think if someone wants to leave they will no matter what. And ASAP.

 

Otoh, like minimariah said above, it does apparently work out for some. So I might be wrong. And it can apparently benefit the child. It benefitted her. She was able to focus better on her studies. But as I understand it, the father and the mother were on the same page about it. They both knew that the M would end and when, and there was a mutual consent on that. That's not the case with my MM (IF he leaves - his W will be blindsided).

 

I also know a guy who's now in his early 40s, the opposite happened to him: his dad did not wait, but instead moved out right away to be with his GF, divorced his W when my friend was like 15 or 16, and he says it had a huge negative impact on him. Still does. So waiting until they're "out of the house / more mature / independent" does seem like a sensible thing to do, if you can pull it off as a couple.

[still_an_Angel]

I agreed to a "reconciliation" because of the effect of the initial separation to my oldest child. stbxh and myself agreed to live in the same roof and had separate bedrooms. The idea is to keep the family together and then maybe, we could really work on a reconciliation. Worst decision of my life, we had grown too far apart, it just didn't work. I asked him to move out after nearly all my strings were ready to break from too much stress. He wasn't happy and I was filled with resentment.

 

 

I think he only stayed because he wanted to keep up with the "happy family" façade, I stayed because of fear of what the future will bring to my kids' mental health. I decided that much as I would like to shield my kids from the harsh realities of life, I'd rather they are aware of how our marriage truly is. I'd like to prepare them for situations like ours, not ideal of course as we married to stay together. But this cuts both ways, its either I show them the unicorns and rainbows of what a marriage should be, or show them that not every relationship works, but there are ways to make things better, that in the end, both parties can be happy again.

[lollipopspot]

divorce is ALWAYS hard and it's actually easier with young kids... but i'm glad my parents decided to "wait it out" until my college. it allowed me to have a certain stability & to focus on my studies.

 

It's NOT easier on (with?) young kids. It's harder - their lives can change so completely with stepparents, half siblings, greater chance of poverty, moving etc. etc. Child development bears out that stability is crucial for young children. Even if they don't exactly know what has happened, less stability is never better.

 

You vastly underestimate the effect of stability, while you admit that it allowed you to focus on your studies.

 

my parents had a few "rough patches" in their marriage but there was never any tension or huge fights. i always felt at peace and happy with them.

 

later, when i started thinking about it -- i remembered them having a good relationship and close friendship (that had continued until this day) BUT 0 passion. they did ocassionaly kiss on lips... but there was 0 passion between them. when comparing it to the relationship between my father & his OW (now wife) and my mother & her partner... the difference is HUGE and obvious. so i guess that was the bad side of "staying for the kids" - it takes you a little longer to figure out that passion is NECESSARY in any relationship... let alone a marriage.

 

It wasn't "necessary" for the relationship - they came together to raise children and stayed for that reason. You have one idea of a relationship, but all kinds can be acceptable.

 

You felt at peace and happy growing up - only after the fact - after you were allowed to develop within a stable, happy (to you) home - do you feel it was somehow lacking. And now you are telling people who never got that stability or to experience that peace and happiness that it would have been better if your parents had allowed the turmoil of divorce with all that entails (their dating, having to work more to support separate households, stepchildren, etc). I honestly think you don't have a clue here.

 

If parents are able to stay together and be civil and not make each other and their kids miserable with fighting, I think that's appropriate and best for the children. Kids don't give a **** about your "passion" - they are concerned with their own feeling of being safe and loved.

[Popsicle]

Ps I'm sorry that u r not doing well in your marriage

 

I'm not married.

 

According to my MM, it'll happen when they move out and on to college. Which will be soon. To me, that is an excuse. I don't believe it, and I think it's just buying him time.

 

It IS difficult to know when someone is for real about this or just buying time/making excuses.

 

It's NOT easier on (with?) young kids.

 

This is not true for every situation. Not every situation is going to yield the same results. My divorce was easier because my kids were young. There were no stability issues that arised at all, and they have thrived, but that was my unique situation, and everyone has one.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Popsicle

[minimariah]

It's NOT easier on (with?) young kids.

 

it is -- will post links with detailed studies and explanations later.

 

It wasn't "necessary" for the relationship -

 

passion IS neccessary for a happy & a healthy relationship, yes. took me YEARS to find that out thanks to the dead marriage model i grew up with.

 

I honestly think you don't have a clue here.

 

you don't have to be rude -- after all, i was writing about my own experience.

 

for some reason -- you seem to think that stability comes ONLY from parents who stay together. you can have & provide stability, happiness & support POST divorce, too. divorce does not mean that there will be 0 stability in your child's life. the worst period for a divorce is probably when your kid is in a process of becoming a young adult... THAT is what i was refering to in my own case.

 

if my parents had divorced when i was 3 years old = my life would have been the same as it is today & i would have the same amount of stability. see, stability comes from PARENTS & their own relationship... not from them living together under the same roof. the problem would be if my parents had divorced when i was 12 - when i was a teen, becoming an adult and when i wouldn't be able to handle any major changes in my life. their marriage didn't break down until i was a teen so i am grateful that they had stayed together for those extra few years during my already turbulent growing up.

 

Kids don't give a **** about your "passion" -

 

kids aren't idiots & they actually see and know and "give a sh*t" about a lot more than you think, so there is that.

[lollipopspot]

This is not true for every situation.

 

I already qualified it in my post, but I think it kind of goes without saying that we're speaking in generalities here.

[oldshirt]

I was thinking about this in general and I totally get how and why this is important but I do wonder if there is ever a point (meaning: when) that you reach where it becomes okay to live for YOU, not your kids? Is it when they grow up and go off and get married themselves? Is it when they simply move out of the house? Is it when they are of legal age? Or, is it never?

 

The devil is all in the details on this one. It's situational and all a matter of context.

 

 

If there is abuse, abandonment, neglect, chronic adultery, chemical abuse etc, it's in everyone's, including the children's best interest to dissolve the marriage and get away from that environment.

 

 

In the absence of those deleterious factors, two people can choose to remain in the marriage and continue to coparent in the same home without love or marital relations etc if they want and feel it is in the best interests of everyone at that particular point in time.

 

 

However IMHO the key there is whether it is by mutual consent and bocth people agree to it.

 

 

If one person is wanting to remain together to coparent under the same roof but without marital relations and the other person does not, then it's I think the person not wanting to remain involuntarily in a loveless, sexless, connectionless marriage has the right to walk.

 

 

They will still need to meet their legal, financial and child care/support obligations but I do not believe anyone should be locked into a loveless marriage against their will.

 

 

In regards to the children, they are harmed by abuse, abandonment, neglect, addiction, chronic conflict and fighting etc but they are not harmed when they are raised by two loving, supportive parents that cooperatively coparent from two different households.

 

 

They may be saddened by not having two parents in the home 24/7 and they may be inconvenienced by being shuffled between houses and balancing holidays etc but they are not harmed when both parents are there for them and actively involved in their lives but from two different houses.

[SolG]

It wasn't "necessary" for the relationship - they came together to raise children and stayed for that reason. You have one idea of a relationship, but all kinds can be acceptable.

 

You felt at peace and happy growing up - only after the fact - after you were allowed to develop within a stable, happy (to you) home - do you feel it was somehow lacking. And now you are telling people who never got that stability or to experience that peace and happiness that it would have been better if your parents had allowed the turmoil of divorce with all that entails (their dating, having to work more to support separate households, stepchildren, etc). I honestly think you don't have a clue here.

 

If parents are able to stay together and be civil and not make each other and their kids miserable with fighting, I think that's appropriate and best for the children. Kids don't give a **** about your "passion" - they are concerned with their own feeling of being safe and loved.

 

My xH and I did as mini's did; we stayed together until our daughter left for college. Then we stayed separated under the one roof for about a year to sort assets. We're still good friends and the three of us still spend Christmas together as a family unit. Marriages may end, but family does not. xH is the father of my child and will always be family to me and mine. I'm not going to lie... there was a lot of work and pain to get this point way back in our M.

 

Yes, kids benefit from the peace and stability and this is foremost of their concerns. But they are not stupid and when they become adults they will have questions as they embark upon adult relationships of their own. Our daughter did, and I have answered to the best of my ability. She knows that our choice was not an unpleasant one for us, and that her father and I made many wonderful memories. And that she is a miracle to us both and no way a source of relationship bondage and dissatisfaction. But at the end of the day we needed to move on from what was essentially a friendship to free each other to seek relationships that included those important elements of romantic and physical attraction/connection.

 

On the back of that openness we have talked about all manner of things. The danger of oxytocin driven bonding vs real connection. The pitfalls of subscribing to Disneyfied versions of love at first sight and living happily ever after. How monogamy and marriage and children are not the only choices in life and relationships; that it is more important to consciously choose your own path that's right for you as opposed to blindly follow the well trodden one.

 

She recently told me that after lots of consideration she has decided that she is definitely a monogamist (she has friends who are polyamorous, so she has valid comparisons). Whilst who knows what the future will bring... I am so proud; not because I believe monogamy is the gold-plated standard (in fact, I don't), but because she has chosen it because it is what she wants as opposed to defaulting to it.

 

Sorry for getting so off track here Popsicle! I just think that we are all too quick to say that staying for the kids, or divorcing, or not being ecstatically deliriously happy in M automatically makes it a 'failure'. I personally don't think any relationship is a failure; they all have their joys, meaning and lessons. Relationships don't 'fail'... they change.

Edited July 19, 2015 by SolG

[DKT3]

I don't see anything wrong with staying for the kids as long as the parents can keep it a loving stable home. I have a hard time robbing the kids of having both parents 100% of the time.

 

I regret to admit this has been a topic of discussion in my home over the past few weeks. I don't see it working for us because we have a teen a preteen and 6 month old. 18 years is a long time without being more there then "the kids". Another issue is the desire or I should say thoughts along these lines are onesided. She is 100% in the relationship and has no doubts. Is it possible when one wants more? How much resentment would she build? It would make it very hard to maintain the stable loving home, right?

[autumnnight]

Kids don't give a **** about your "passion" - they are concerned with their own feeling of being safe and loved.

 

Funny, the lack of any kind of romantic marital love is THE reason my kids cite for thinking marriage is useless and "there's no point because they can have a roommate cheaper."

 

So I guess that isn't always the case.

[Gagirl]

You should make a point to live for yourself whenever you can. I go to Europe every year for a two week vacation with travel groups and it's wonderful. Gives me something to look forward to every year and helps deal with the loneliness and isolation. For 10 years, I wasn't able to read a book, go to the movies, experience romance or nothing. It certainly wasn't worth it. Go live your life while you can because you wil never get that time back and don't worry about whatever people think. Don't wait until your too old to have fun. Just glad I never gave up my career like my Inlaws wanted me too. Geez, I just spent thousands on my degree and they expected me to just sit home raising kids? Seriously!

[ASG]

I don't believe in staying for the kids...

 

My parents separated when I was 6. The stability remained there. My parents made their divorce work in our favour. And 20 odd years later, my dad still spends Christmas with us and my mom's family (he doesn't have much family of his own).

 

So that is the model I grew up with and, if I get married, have kids and at any point things aren't working, I will try to implement the same.

[Doublegold]

SoIG..'I just think that we are all too quick to say that staying for the kids, or divorcing, or not being ecstatically deliriously happy in M automatically makes it a 'failure'. I personally don't think any relationship is a failure; they all have their joys, meaning and lessons.'

 

THIS^^! I believe something doesn't have to last FOREVER to be considered a success! My longterm M produced incrediable now adult children. X and I see one another regulary and are friends. Even though divorced, I was in his Mother's obit as one of her survivors.

 

Just because you don't divorce doesnt mean your Marriage is a success.