BS exchange for OW theory

[sookie321]

I was talking about MM to a friend the other day and he told me of his theory:

 

Let's say in satisfaction scale from 1 to 10

 

MM values his M as a 5;

 

He sees the OW as a 9;

 

But the pain and transition would cost him a 7;

 

That leaves the M with the same 5 and the OW with only a 2.

 

Maybe it's stupid, but somehow it made sense to me.

[minimariah]

i don't get it.

[gettingstronger]

Lots of assumptions there- assuming the MM values the OW more than the BS- assuming the only thing that holds him back from leaving is the "pain" of leaving, etc..

 

Seems to me your friend was making excuses for your MM and for you staying with him-

 

In the end- its

 

BS-0

OW-0

MM- 10

 

Its about selfishness- what they can get away with and with who- its interesting because it seems like the OW will put up with more than the BS- usually, when the BS finds out, its all or nothing- the OW for whatever reason will put up with more from the MM than his own wife-

 

I also feel like, for whatever reason, being married seems to give the MM a pass to be a jerk to the OW- things they would never put up with from a single partner, they put up with from a married one- that must be pretty powerful to the MM- so yes, its selfishness and the MM is the only "winner" in this situation-

[Got it]

Having been in the MP's shoes and walking through the divorce process I don't get it either. Life isn't that simplistic.

 

Since there are other features of divorcing that are separate of the OW, simply deducting it from her doesn't work as even being alone has its pros and cons. And your friend is also not including the points of "not being alone" that may rate much higher with some people that has little to actually do with the OW.

 

It really is more like taking a leap of faith to divorce. You are going into uncharted waters, knowing that there are some rough waters you are going to hit, but the bad outweighs the good.

 

Sorry, my desire to divorce was separate from my affair partner. Regardless if he had been/was in my life, divorcing was the best thing and I have never regretted a moment of having done it.

[sookie321]

9-7=2 (OW) vs. 5 (M)

 

It means that it is not worth it.

 

It's just his theory of things. He is telling me to run away.

 

Of course it is not as simple in real life and there are many factors in every situation. It was interesting for me to hear male point of view and that is what he said.

Edited July 20, 2015 by sookie321
to add things

[gettingstronger]

Your not worth it? I disagree, I think you should be in a relationship where you are worth it-

[sookie321]

Not worth for MM to change anything.

[gettingstronger]

Sorry for the bad grammar, tried to edit

 

Your should be You're

[gettingstronger]

Not worth for MM to change anything.

 

 

 

So, now that it makes sense to you- are you going to do anything about it- seems like you have come to the realization he is never going to leave- that you will never be "high" enough points wise to be worth it- what is your next move? I think you should be a 10 with no others in the equation-

[Got it]

Not worth for MM to change anything.

 

But since you have agreed it isn't a complete comparison how are you putting "words" in your MMs mouth and assessing this analysis to him????

 

Listen, if you aren't happy in the affair then by all means end it. But don't assume things that may or may not be there because a male friend said something. You two are extrapolating things that could be pure fantasy. Talk to your MM, lay it out there, if you have a need for a deadline, discuss a deadline. If you are past the point of no return, then by all means go another way. But own it as the best decision for you. Not because some formula said something you guys made up.

[sookie321]

So, now that it makes sense to you- are you going to do anything about it- seems like you have come to the realization he is never going to leave- that you will never be "high" enough points wise to be worth it- what is your next move? I think you should be a 10 with no others in the equation-

 

It's just a theory of how men's mind might be calculating. I realized he's not leaving by his actions, not by this, really.

 

I am not happy. He's being childish and seems to me waiting for someone else to make a decision. Don't believe there are actions or options to make so NC it is.

Edited July 20, 2015 by sookie321

[fellini]

Experience has taught me its more like this (in most co-worker / non ONS infidelities)

 

NM (needs met) scale:

 

Pre-A:

M+WS >= 5

 

Day 1 NM begins to change: "That's a lovely dress you are wearing today"

 

NM M: -1 for each new need being met by growing EA future PA.

 

When the balance of NM by EA approaches or surpasses M, WS stops expecting any NM from M.

 

Full blown A: WS thinks M no longer capable of NM and surprisingly finds missing NM in AP.

 

WS actually believes N not being met was the reason for A. Not that she (in my example WW) shifted those needs to the AP.

 

WS never able to predict if NM with AP could include those NM in M that remain, and are part of sharing a real life vs. the imaginary life with AP. (For example, economic NM, child-rearing NM, take out the garbage NM...)

 

If WS begins to see that these non fantasy NM can be met, begins to believe in a future with AP. If not, continues to live her new life:

 

NM by BS + NM by Self + NM (AP) = level of comfort

 

and remains indeterminately in an affair until caught when suddenly:

 

DDAY:

NM not to be seen to be a "slut" > NM by AP and suddenly NM by AP transferred back into the enormous emotional space of BS.

 

NM to stay married (and not be seen to be a "slut" > NM by AP.

 

NC < Hyperbonding sex with BS

 

BUT if BH says "out slut":

 

NM to have AP validate "true love" NM by AP (thus explaining the A) and not M, attempts to stay with AP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was talking about MM to a friend the other day and he told me of his theory:

 

Let's say in satisfaction scale from 1 to 10

 

MM values his M as a 5;

 

He sees the OW as a 9;

 

But the pain and transition would cost him a 7;

 

That leaves the M with the same 5 and the OW with only a 2.

 

Maybe it's stupid, but somehow it made sense to me.

Edited July 20, 2015 by fellini

[elaine567]

I was talking about MM to a friend the other day and he told me of his theory:

Let's say in satisfaction scale from 1 to 10

MM values his M as a 5;

He sees the OW as a 9;

But the pain and transition would cost him a 7;

That leaves the M with the same 5 and the OW with only a 2.

 

Yes, I get it.

This is describing why most MM do not leave their marriages.

The negatives and cost to himself almost always exceeds the advantages of the OW, whatever they are.

 

OW (sex only) = 3

M= 5

Hassle of divorce, financial costs, potential work issues, loss of marital status and not seeing wife and kids =-7

OW (3-7= -4) vs M=5

He is going nowhere

 

OW(love of his life) =10

M=5

Hassle of divorce, financial costs, potential work issues, loss of marital status and not seeing wife and kids =-7

OW (10-7 =3) vs M=5

He is still going nowhere.

 

Only when value of M goes down, ie she blocks reconciliation, or she is abusive, impossible to live with or moves away altogether out of his life, could the equation then be in favour of the OW. M=3 for instance.

If he also has no kids, no house to lose, is financially sorted and stable, then the negatives may be less, so instead of -7 it may only be -3 and then the OW may have a chance too, especially if he rates her highly.

OW (10-3 = 7) vs M=3

He will leave.

 

Of course if the marriage is basically great M=8 and OW is [a sexual encounter] and he rates OW as 3 say, then leaving is never on the cards.

OW (3-7=-4) vs M=8

Chances of leaving nil.

Edited July 20, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language

[William]

Since this thread appears to be more about a mathematical formula surrounding affairs rather than aspects of a particular person's affair, we'll move this to GRD. Numbers and exchange theory discussions are fine but keep the adjectives clean and respectful. Thanks!

[whichwayisup]

9-7=2 (OW) vs. 5 (M)

 

It means that it is not worth it.

 

It's just his theory of things. He is telling me to run away.

 

Of course it is not as simple in real life and there are many factors in every situation. It was interesting for me to hear male point of view and that is what he said.

 

You should run away. Really, is this MM worth it? You lose out on a real relationship with someone who can spend actual real time with you, have sleep overs, no hiding and lying, sneaking around. Someone who loves only you!

[Cymbeline]

Oh well, never mind. At least you can assure yourself that you are a 9/10 and his miserable apology for a wife is only a three......

[Popsicle]

That's exactly correct (most of the time) and why A's are never worth it for a single AP.

[oldshirt]

People leave when the pain of staying outweighs the pain/effort/hardship and cost of leaving.

 

The AP May or may not factor into that equation at all.

 

What you need to realize as an AP is the MM may leave his M but may still not leave "for" you. And it is quite common for a marriage to dissolve and for the WS to be having an A or even multiple As, but once they are free of their marriage they ultimately end up with some completely different.

 

Cont...

[oldshirt]

So let's look at this using your formula -

 

M = 2

AP = 7

D = -5

 

 

WS decides he/she can't live with 2 forever and decides it will be worth the temporary -5 to divorce and AP is providing a 7 so net gain coming out of M is +4.

 

Ok but now WS is single and the A has created a bunch of baggage and hurt feelings and war wounds so AP is still holding in at a +4.

 

But now WS is single and able to date whoever they want and not just someone who is willing to screw a MM/MW at that time.

 

So now there is 5 in the accounting dept at work, a 6 at the coffee shop that just broke up with their BF/GF and are looking for a FWB, a couple 8s on his/her coed volleyball team and a whole host of 6s-10s at the gym.

[oldshirt]

Again, people leave their spouse when the pain of staying outweighs the pain of leaving. (Assuming making a conscious choice to leave and not their S kicking them out or leaving them)

 

It's usually based on how miserable the M is and not on how enticing the AP is.

 

A good bar of reference is to ask yourself if they would leave and be better off of on their own even if there was no AP.

 

The role of an AP for someone voluntarily leaving their spouse is often as a cushion to soften the blow and not be completely alone in the days immediately post-D.

 

It's actually quite rare for MM to leave M "for" the AP, and even when they do, that relationship is often short lived.

 

I've never seen your formula put into numbers before but I do think it has some validity.

 

I think the crux of this however is not only how big the spread is between the number of the M vs the number of the AP. The crux for the AP May be the spread between his/her number and the number of the other people that the WS will have access to once the are free and single.

 

An AP May have a crack at the WS if the AP is a 7 and the BS is only a 6 or less ( and many WS will even go less than BS just for the variety).

 

But once the WS is free and single, if they are able to pull 8s and 9s or even other 7s that don't have baggage and are a clean slate - the AP can, and often is, sitting alongside the road pretty quick after the D.

[anna121]

I was talking about MM to a friend the other day and he told me of his theory:

 

Let's say in satisfaction scale from 1 to 10

 

MM values his M as a 5;

 

He sees the OW as a 9;

 

But the pain and transition would cost him a 7;

 

That leaves the M with the same 5 and the OW with only a 2.

 

Maybe it's stupid, but somehow it made sense to me.

 

Shouldn't there also be a (negative) value for ending the affair that is subtracted from the marriage? Because at some point, that is what will happen.

 

Obviously, this is only talking about MM's feelings and is thus extremely self-absorbed, but that is the whole point.

[SolG]

The basis of all cooperation is payoff; or more accurately, perception/prediction of payoff. Game theory again... I'll try and explain without the math

 

In simple Prisoner's Dillema terms, the more a person can defect (ie, take advantage) against another and have the defectee still cooperate = the greater the payoff. And payoff comes in many currencies and is in the eye of the receiver.

 

Whilst in a secret A, the WS is defecting against the BS and AP whilst they both cooperate. Big payoff off for WS in both interractions. BS continues to cooperate with the WS because they are ignorant of the defection. AP continues to cooperate because there is (generally) both immediate payoff of some variety and they may also have their eye on a larger payoff to come that they perceive is contingent on their continued cooperation.

 

Now we all know that things don't stay in this state of equilibrium forever... In the most part cummulative A payoff is contingent on BOTH the BS and AP continuing to cooperate.

 

Sometimes the AP will become aware that the big payoff isn't coming and stop cooperating. The more common scenario is that the BS becomes aware of the defection and stops cooperating. In fact, in some cases a BS will not just stop cooperating, but may also retaliate with costly punishment. Game changer for the WS.

 

Even though an AP may still be willing to continue to cooperate, the WS will usually at this point defect and turn to cooperation with the BS. Because generally that yields the greater payoff to them. The payoff could be love of the BS, stability and security, status; generally a combo of all. Whereas a normal A may offer little in these dimensions and in fact, the A payoff (perhaps easy joy and excitement) may only exist with these payoffs intact elsewhere and are extinguished with disclosure.

 

And also funny thing about perception of payoff; it is usually moderated by perception of risk and possible consequence. Some WSs don't realise the scale of either so continue an A in semi-ignorance of what may come and the payoff price in the M. Some folk call this fog.

Edited July 20, 2015 by SolG

[BetrayedH]

Experience has taught me its more like this (in most co-worker / non ONS infidelities)

 

NM (needs met) scale:

 

Pre-A:

M+WS >= 5

 

Day 1 NM begins to change: "That's a lovely dress you are wearing today"

 

NM M: -1 for each new need being met by growing EA future PA.

 

When the balance of NM by EA approaches or surpasses M, WS stops expecting any NM from M.

 

Full blown A: WS thinks M no longer capable of NM and surprisingly finds missing NM in AP.

 

WS actually believes N not being met was the reason for A. Not that she (in my example WW) shifted those needs to the AP.

 

WS never able to predict if NM with AP could include those NM in M that remain, and are part of sharing a real life vs. the imaginary life with AP. (For example, economic NM, child-rearing NM, take out the garbage NM...)

 

If WS begins to see that these non fantasy NM can be met, begins to believe in a future with AP. If not, continues to live her new life:

 

NM by BS + NM by Self + NM (AP) = level of comfort

 

and remains indeterminately in an affair until caught when suddenly:

 

DDAY:

NM not to be seen to be a "slut" > NM by AP and suddenly NM by AP transferred back into the enormous emotional space of BS.

 

NM to stay married (and not be seen to be a "slut" > NM by AP.

 

NC < Hyperbonding sex with BS

 

BUT if BH says "out slut":

 

NM to have AP validate "true love" NM by AP (thus explaining the A) and not M, attempts to stay with AP.

 

Damn, I can't find my protractor.

 

[sookie321]

Oh well, never mind. At least you can assure yourself that you are a 9/10 and his miserable apology for a wife is only a three......

 

It is not about me, it's just random numbers

[beatcuff]

Damn, I can't find my protractor.

 

that's your problem. you should be using excel, with multiple tabs and fancy formulas and... i spent hours doing it last night to prove the theory, then realized the old saying "garbage in = garbage out".