Employer changed my employment status with no paperwork. Legal? Live in PA

[superkatnip]

I was unhappy in my job last year and went out looking. I was offered a "great' opportunity to join a financial advisory firm as their marketing/client service person. I was hired as an employee and was to get a flat salary while getting my licences. After passing my test, i was to get flat salary rate plus 10 of my bosses commissions.

Within 10 days of getting licensed, my boss called me in to explain the "New" compensation structure. I was to be a 15% co-owner and would received 15% of the office profits.

Now, understand that the boss pays most of his personal expenses out of the gross profits, meaning now that my pay is about 25% of what is was to be. I cannot live on what he is now offering and I have told him so.

Also, I left a salaried job to take this position.

 

Other key information, I was taken off the payroll as of the end of May of thsi year, but was never given any other paperwork to fill out, ie independent contractor forms or any details about what being a co-owner involves.

 

I have contacted a probono attorney, but have not heard back.

I am looking for new jobs, but would frankly do better if I could collect unemployment and focus on the job search as I had a good salary last year.

I get that I live in a right to work state and employers can change compensation at will, but can they change your status and don't I have to fill out paperwork?

Finally, I am expected to be in the office everyday 9-5 and attend seminars in and networking events in the evenings and on weekends.

I would like all thoughts.

[carhill]

Finally, I am expected to be in the office everyday 9-5 and attend seminars in and networking events in the evenings and on weekends.

 

You're an employee in every jurisdiction I've had contact with here in Cali. Independent contractors contract based on job and set their own hours of business. Of course, customers have choices as to who they contract with.

 

IMO, beware of any compensation scheme other than hourly/salary that doesn't directly tie to an easily and independently quantifiable metric, like your sales as one example. You invoice and you can easily record and compare to commissions.

 

A partner is someone who puts 'skin' into the game, whether that be money, patents, intellectual property, business savvy, etc, and forges a partnership agreement, generally with the help of one or more [paid] lawyers. Some startups offer employees 'partnership' in trade for low or non-extant wages but I'd be wary of those. For every Apple, there's thousands which fail miserably.

 

A labor lawyer could estimate potential recoverable damages versus legal fees and give you a basic understanding of PA law in this area.

 

Myself, I think you dodged a bullet and would consider any losses to be tuition at business/employment U and look for more gainful employment.

[d0nnivain]

Nobody is going to take your case on pro bono. Why should they? Why do you think some lawyer should work for you without getting paid? It's incredibly arrogant of you to expect a lawyer to work for you for free, especially when your gripe is that somebody else isn't paying you enough money.

 

 

That said you may be able to get some free assistance from your local department of labor. Sometimes you can file a claim with them at no costs to you. But you would still be better off with a lawyer.

 

 

As for the terms & conditions of your employment, if PA is an at will employment state and if you did not have a signed employment contract, your employer can change your terms of employment at any time to anything that suits your employer. If you don't like the changes, you can get a different job. the only time the employer can't change your employment is if the employer is doing it for discriminatory reasons (race, religion, gender, etc.)

[preraph]

I don't think you have a lawsuit. There's no past earnings to gauge what future earnings would have been in comparison. Also, be sure you know this is a worse deal because usually owning a piece of the company can benefit you in the long term. I don't agree with a lot of business practices to do with commissions, etc, but usually there is nothing to be done but change jobs.

 

I know the commissioned jobs I've had, when I met or exceeded their sales expectation, they would simply raise the quota so they didn't have to pay me as much. I'm sure that should be illegal, but at least where I live, it isn't. They set quotas to where they think it would be impossible to achieve them and tell themselves if someone does achieve it, they'll gladly pay, but that's usually not the case, in my experience. One place I worked just hired too many salespeople so that there was little chance any of them would make the quota because it was too many sales people to customers. In the inside sales job I had in music, I was apparently the only non-slacker they'd ever had and blew their doors off and then they just set my quota higher so they didn't think I could reach it. I was always curious if it was just my quota or if they had to raise the others' as well. But right before I resigned, I was ranking #1 or #2 for each of the last six months I was there, and that was me in Texas competing with the main music hubs of NY and LA, too.

[Tayla]

I work in pa and can state vehemently that based on your scenario you do have merits to be heard by the labor board. Yes there are lawyers that will take a case with stipulation of compensation for awards, sometimes 20-25%. Sometimes a pattern or consistency of the employer can be used to show proof of job title and pay. Unsure where you were advised that compensations or commissions can be changed on a whim. Thats not how it works. PA legal network may be able to assist you. A paralegal can also assist if you feel confident to represent yourself during the first stages of labor board hearings. Usually during appeals is when you'll want an attorney present. Again,speak with a professional for proper guidance.

[superkatnip]

Thank you to all for the feedback. I actually am amendable to a contingency situation. I guess my biggest issues is changing my employment status with no new written contract. I am thinking that technically I am unemployed as of 5/31 ad I am no longer on the payroll and have signed no new agreements that I am an independent contractor.

I would just like o be able to file for UI and some small damages as this stress ended up aggravating a health condition and I ended up in hospital for 2 days.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

Nobody is going to take your case on pro bono. Why should they? Why do you think some lawyer should work for you without getting paid? It's incredibly arrogant of you to expect a lawyer to work for you for free, especially when your gripe is that somebody else isn't paying you enough money.

 

 

That said you may be able to get some free assistance from your local department of labor. Sometimes you can file a claim with them at no costs to you. But you would still be better off with a lawyer.

 

 

As for the terms & conditions of your employment, if PA is an at will employment state and if you did not have a signed employment contract, your employer can change your terms of employment at any time to anything that suits your employer. If you don't like the changes, you can get a different job. the only time the employer can't change your employment is if the employer is doing it for discriminatory reasons (race, religion, gender, etc.)

 

 

Lawyers are required by the bar to provide a certain amount of free community service, which can include pro bono work.

 

 

Don't know PA employer laws & rules, but a right to work state status does not trump Federal wage & working laws and their own state laws. If PA has a state labor board, they will know what an employer can get away with.

 

 

I once got around $2000 because an arrogant boss or employer was pissed that I walked out on a Friday afternoon. I don't give 2 weeks notices, because employers are not required to do that when they lay employees off or fire for any reason. Cali is an at will employment state. This employer had a habit of treating employees who were fired or quit badly when they tried to get their last paycheck. They would purposely screw with them. I refuse to do any exit interviews, because I don't believe in them & in this case I was clocked off & was not going to benefit their company without getting paid. I told them to mail me my last paycheck. It took them 2 weeks to send it. In Cali they have 72 hours to mail it & must pay a days wage as a penalty for every day the paycheck is late. I filed a claim at the labor board & they didn't show for the voluntary pre hearing meeting. Their lawyer called me right before the hearing date offering less then 1/2 of what I was owed. I went to the hearing & showed the hearing officer the last check & the post mark on the envelope. The employer's lawyer tried to say they suffered a big loss by me walking off. I told the officer that I notified my boss in writing, that I will quit in two weeks if I don't receive a raise. I walked out when my next paycheck didn't include a raise. I showed the officer a copy of my notice of provide a raise or quit letter to my boss. I won, as it was an open & shut case. I made copies of all docs related to what happened & mailed it to the company owner, along with a chart showing how many hours of labor (along with what the company charges for that labor) my damage award would have covered.

[d0nnivain]

Lawyers are required by the bar to provide a certain amount of free community service, which can include pro bono work.

 

Those required hours are cases assigned by the court system through a program with a screening system, not some person who wants free legal services. Since the OP posted that s/he is agreeable to a contingency fee where the lawyer gets a % of the recovery I still vehemently disagree that the lawyer should be forced to work for free.

[RoseVille]

Lawyers are required by the bar to provide a certain amount of free community service, which can include pro bono work.

 

Uh, no. This is not the case in California.

[RoseVille]

Those required hours are cases assigned by the court system through a program with a screening system, not some person who wants free legal services. Since the OP posted that s/he is agreeable to a contingency fee where the lawyer gets a % of the recovery I still vehemently disagree that the lawyer should be forced to work for free.

 

I'm curious what states require attorneys to perform any work for free?

[carhill]

Here's an article from the Cali ABA regarding the pro bono requirement. Reading, it appears New York is already there and Cali is in the implementing process. According to the article, the pro bono requirement will become part of licensure for new lawyers. I didn't see anything about ongoing requirements but admittedly did skim.

 

However, most lawyers I've interviewed, though never an employment lawyer to date, do offer a complimentary meeting, where parameters can be outlined and a general overview of their services and potential solutions can be offered. I found their work in business and estate matters during these interviews to be pretty comprehensive, in that I learned a lot about matters of law in a short time. Armed with such information, one can make a determination of whether or not there is value in retaining the attorney and proceeding. Of course, due diligence and preparation can maximize such interviews and that's something the client is complete control of.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

An attorney I hired in the late 1990s for a auto related injury case told me some pro bono was was required in California. I didn't ask him about it.

 

 

Some huge damage awards have been given to lawyers taking on pro bono work. Study the work of Sacramento attorneys Mark Marin & Stewart Katz. Very inspirational.

[Fugu]

I was unhappy in my job last year and went out looking. I was offered a "great' opportunity to join a financial advisory firm as their marketing/client service person. I was hired as an employee and was to get a flat salary while getting my licences. After passing my test, i was to get flat salary rate plus 10 of my bosses commissions.

Within 10 days of getting licensed, my boss called me in to explain the "New" compensation structure. I was to be a 15% co-owner and would received 15% of the office profits.

Now, understand that the boss pays most of his personal expenses out of the gross profits, meaning now that my pay is about 25% of what is was to be. I cannot live on what he is now offering and I have told him so.

Also, I left a salaried job to take this position.

 

Other key information, I was taken off the payroll as of the end of May of thsi year, but was never given any other paperwork to fill out, ie independent contractor forms or any details about what being a co-owner involves.

 

I have contacted a probono attorney, but have not heard back.

I am looking for new jobs, but would frankly do better if I could collect unemployment and focus on the job search as I had a good salary last year.

I get that I live in a right to work state and employers can change compensation at will, but can they change your status and don't I have to fill out paperwork?

Finally, I am expected to be in the office everyday 9-5 and attend seminars in and networking events in the evenings and on weekends.

I would like all thoughts.

 

You will need to work with an employment attorney in PA, which should be relatively easy to find. PA tends to be somewhat friendly to employees compared to other states, but each case is different. There are lots of potential variables that can come into play in your situation.

[introverted1]

Thank you to all for the feedback. I actually am amendable to a contingency situation. I guess my biggest issues is changing my employment status with no new written contract. I am thinking that technically I am unemployed as of 5/31 ad I am no longer on the payroll and have signed no new agreements that I am an independent contractor.

I would just like o be able to file for UI and some small damages as this stress ended up aggravating a health condition and I ended up in hospital for 2 days.

 

So file for UI.

 

I'm unclear about the significance of 5/31 and you no longer being on payroll. Surely you were aware of this fact before now? Yet you've still been turning up to work, so you are essentially agreeing to the new terms. If you don't accept them, then quit and file UI. You will likely be able to get it (assuming you've worked the requisite number of quarters) since the terms of your employment changed.

 

I think it will be unlikely that you will be able to prove that your employer caused your health condition, but if you can find a lawyer willing to take that case on contingency, that's your choice.

[RoseVille]

Here's an article from the Cali ABA regarding the pro bono requirement. Reading, it appears New York is already there and Cali is in the implementing process. According to the article, the pro bono requirement will become part of licensure for new lawyers. I didn't see anything about ongoing requirements but admittedly did skim.

 

However, most lawyers I've interviewed, though never an employment lawyer to date, do offer a complimentary meeting, where parameters can be outlined and a general overview of their services and potential solutions can be offered. I found their work in business and estate matters during these interviews to be pretty comprehensive, in that I learned a lot about matters of law in a short time. Armed with such information, one can make a determination of whether or not there is value in retaining the attorney and proceeding. Of course, due diligence and preparation can maximize such interviews and that's something the client is complete control of.

 

There's no such thing as the "Cali ABA."

 

The American Bar Association (ABA) is a body that merely makes suggestions to state bars and attorneys in general with regard to rules of ethics. Membership is voluntary.

 

The State Bar of California, of which I'm a member, is a compulsory/mandatory organization and an actual government body (unlike many other jurisdictions' bars), in addition to two other state bars I belong to, does not require licensed attorneys to perform pro bono work to maintain licensure, and this is the first I've ever heard of such a requirement in the 15 years I've been in practice. It's a good idea for incoming/new attorneys for admission to help them get some experience, but I doubt it will ever effect already-licensed attorneys.

 

Note that in that article, you're getting "legal services" pro bono from folks who have not yet demonstrated the necessary competency to actually practice law by sitting for and passing a bar exam. They have to complete the pro bono work before even filing their application. It's basically law clerk work.

 

But yes... Most attorneys do provide initial consultations for free. If they don't, I'd be suspicious.

Edited July 21, 2015 by RoseVille

[carhill]

Pretty nit picky if you ask me but, then again, you're an attorney. Me, I hire them and provide resources for fellow members pro bono.

 

Then there's the 'holding oneself out as a professional' prohibition on this site, which you may or may not be aware of, but I am, because, well, the owner made me aware of it.

Edited July 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jen1447]

There's no such thing as the "Cali ABA."

 

The American Bar Association (ABA) is a body that merely makes suggestions to state bars and attorneys in general with regard to rules of ethics. Membership is voluntary.

 

The State Bar of California, of which I'm a member, is a compulsory/mandatory organization and an actual government body (unlike many other jurisdictions' bars), in addition to two other state bars I belong to, does not require licensed attorneys to perform pro bono work to maintain licensure, and this is the first I've ever heard of such a requirement in the 15 years I've been in practice. It's a good idea for incoming/new attorneys for admission to help them get some experience, but I doubt it will ever effect already-licensed attorneys.

 

Note that in that article, you're getting "legal services" pro bono from folks who have not yet demonstrated the necessary competency to actually practice law by sitting for and passing a bar exam. They have to complete the pro bono work before even filing their application. It's basically law clerk work.

 

But yes... Most attorneys do provide initial consultations for free. If they don't, I'd be suspicious.

 

Go for the voice of experience. I was actually curious about how the bar worked in that regard, being as I've seen public defenders and whatnot seemingly dragged into service against their will where I live.

 

OP, I'm unclear on your job status really, both in terms of how you're off the payroll but expected to perform x-y-z tasks, and also how the whole commissions thing was supposed to work, being as it doesn't sound like you were in a sales role specifically? I'm not a right to work expert by any means but I don't see how they could possibly expect you to work (under the pretense of having a job to come to and so on) or even change the terms with utter impunity. At-will can't possibly mean utter lawlessness.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

Unethical employers get spanked all the time for violations of labor laws & rules. Sadly most harmed employees don't stand up for themselves. Shady employers know this & exploit it.

[Got it]

OP - you can also contact the Department of Labor. You don't necessarily need an attorney though they are happy to get any cut of profits.

 

It doesn't sound like you meet the requirements of an independent contractor and I do think you have grounds with their lack of paper trail.

 

I would contact the DOL and file a complaint.

[clia]

This entire situation sounds bizarre.

 

I was unhappy in my job last year and went out looking. I was offered a "great' opportunity to join a financial advisory firm as their marketing/client service person. I was hired as an employee and was to get a flat salary while getting my licences. After passing my test, i was to get flat salary rate plus 10 of my bosses commissions.

Within 10 days of getting licensed, my boss called me in to explain the "New" compensation structure. I was to be a 15% co-owner and would received 15% of the office profits.

 

Did you get documentation showing your new 15% ownership status and 15% of office profits? Did you find out how office profits are calculated? Did you ask for any of this information? Did you ask him why your prior agreement had changed? Was any of that in writing?

 

Now, understand that the boss pays most of his personal expenses out of the gross profits, meaning now that my pay is about 25% of what is was to be. I cannot live on what he is now offering and I have told him so.

Also, I left a salaried job to take this position.

 

Um...if he's paying his personal expenses out of the business account that's not legit. Did you ask him about that? What did he say when you told him you couldn't live off what he is now paying you?

 

Other key information, I was taken off the payroll as of the end of May of thsi year, but was never given any other paperwork to fill out, ie independent contractor forms or any details about what being a co-owner involves.

 

Have you been paid since May? If so, how? Based on the 15% profits? Did you ask him why you were taken off payroll?

 

I have contacted a probono attorney, but have not heard back.

 

I can't see anyone taking this pro bono; there is minimal money in this for a contingency fee attorney. But maybe you'll find someone.

 

I am looking for new jobs, but would frankly do better if I could collect unemployment and focus on the job search as I had a good salary last year.

 

Can you get him to lay you off or fire you so you can collect unemployment? (I don't know what the requirements are.) But bear in mind that may work against you in finding a new job. Leaving voluntarily is always the preferred route.

 

Finally, I am expected to be in the office everyday 9-5 and attend seminars in and networking events in the evenings and on weekends.

I would like all thoughts.

 

Sounds like you are in a professional job. Do you fall under the type of jobs where overtime pay is expected?

[NewLeaf512]

There's no such thing as the "Cali ABA."

 

The American Bar Association (ABA) is a body that merely makes suggestions to state bars and attorneys in general with regard to rules of ethics. Membership is voluntary.

 

The State Bar of California, of which I'm a member, is a compulsory/mandatory organization and an actual government body (unlike many other jurisdictions' bars), in addition to two other state bars I belong to, does not require licensed attorneys to perform pro bono work to maintain licensure, and this is the first I've ever heard of such a requirement in the 15 years I've been in practice. It's a good idea for incoming/new attorneys for admission to help them get some experience, but I doubt it will ever effect already-licensed attorneys.

 

Note that in that article, you're getting "legal services" pro bono from folks who have not yet demonstrated the necessary competency to actually practice law by sitting for and passing a bar exam. They have to complete the pro bono work before even filing their application. It's basically law clerk work.

 

But yes... Most attorneys do provide initial consultations for free. If they don't, I'd be suspicious.

 

 

Too much information is not revealed to make any real judgment on case viability. Did you sign an employment contract? If so provide details. Did you sign a partnership contract if so what was your equity stake and buy in? PA is at will employees so your comment about being taken off the payroll is unclear. Were you terminated? For cause? How many employees are in the company? What was your base plus draw? Did you hit your goal? What was your average monthly salary (base plus draw) Did you experience any discrimination?

 

The only action I see here is : Additional consideration exists where an employee undergoes a substantial hardship to accept the job that is other than the services for which the employee is hired.

 

Unless you earned a high salaRy that would not really hold up. Get a free consultation. Lackawanna and Lancaster counties are the ones more favourable to the employee. There would have to be money in it for a lawyer to rake it on a contingent fee basis.

 

Good luck

[NewLeaf512]

Those required hours are cases assigned by the court system through a program with a screening system, not some person who wants free legal services. Since the OP posted that s/he is agreeable to a contingency fee where the lawyer gets a % of the recovery I still vehemently disagree that the lawyer should be forced to work for free.

 

 

Agreed. I'm called to the bar in several states as well as in my home country. Although I do work occasionally in employment I work on the company side for intellectual property, cyber security, eforensics regarding misuse of company assets particularly regarding transmission of non compliant data ( laptop, tablet , phone, smart phone, VoIP, unified Comms etc and raising the criminal complaint if gross misconduct has occurred.

The government of your state sets up the legal aid program ans assigns the cases which for me usually are family law. Good Luck

[pink_sugar]

Thank you to all for the feedback. I actually am amendable to a contingency situation. I guess my biggest issues is changing my employment status with no new written contract. I am thinking that technically I am unemployed as of 5/31 ad I am no longer on the payroll and have signed no new agreements that I am an independent contractor.

I would just like o be able to file for UI and some small damages as this stress ended up aggravating a health condition and I ended up in hospital for 2 days.

 

Labor commissioner can easily determine your status with a few quick questions and any rights you may have. Rule of thumb is if you go and perform work somewhere during certain hours, you are an employee. Independent contractors work on their own time and schedule and charge you a fee for their services. IC are often misclassified to save employers money on overhead. Talk to the Dept of Labor and they can advise.

[mightycpa]

I was unhappy in my job last year and went out looking. I was offered a "great' opportunity to join a financial advisory firm as their marketing/client service person. I was hired as an employee and was to get a flat salary while getting my licences. After passing my test, i was to get flat salary rate plus 10 of my bosses commissions.

Within 10 days of getting licensed, my boss called me in to explain the "New" compensation structure. I was to be a 15% co-owner and would received 15% of the office profits.

Now, understand that the boss pays most of his personal expenses out of the gross profits, meaning now that my pay is about 25% of what is was to be. I cannot live on what he is now offering and I have told him so.

Also, I left a salaried job to take this position.

 

Other key information, I was taken off the payroll as of the end of May of thsi year, but was never given any other paperwork to fill out, ie independent contractor forms or any details about what being a co-owner involves.

 

I have contacted a probono attorney, but have not heard back.

I am looking for new jobs, but would frankly do better if I could collect unemployment and focus on the job search as I had a good salary last year.

I get that I live in a right to work state and employers can change compensation at will, but can they change your status and don't I have to fill out paperwork?

Finally, I am expected to be in the office everyday 9-5 and attend seminars in and networking events in the evenings and on weekends.

I would like all thoughts.

Surely you were given some evidence of ownership? Because if you were, then you have tons of recourse. Your fellow owners owe you a fiduciary duty to protect the money of the business. Spending the business' money on personal expenses is a breach of that duty, and the legal ramifications could be serious, given that you have both the money and the stones to follow up with that.

 

More likely, you're a commission-only salesperson who owns nothing. It's doubtful that you'd even own the book of business that you bring in. What did you get your licenses in? So you could sell insurance and money market funds? One of two things is probably true:

 

1) you're working for a sleazeball

 

2) you're in over your head, and you don't even understand the nature of the job you find yourself in

 

Did I say two? I lied.

 

3) Could be both

 

No attorney is going to do this for free. Get off your wallet and hire someone, or get another job.

Edited July 29, 2015 by mightycpa