CarrieT Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yes, everyone's point in that thread was that I should be more secure and stop bugging him about marriage. No, everyone's point in that thread is that you should be more secure and LEAVE. so I'm consideing apologizing to him for that. It will fall on deaf ears. He doesn't care about an apology. But meanwhile there were real reasons I couldn't feel secure in the relationship! And you never will. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author rams10 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I always knew he was emotionally stunted. But I loved the way I felt a high, like it was a victory, whenever he DID do anything loving. Because it seemed so hard for him that whenever he did, I was convinced I must be super special. And I liked that he was strong and macho. Now, when I make small conversation and he actually asks questions in return, it makes me feel euphoric that this strong, independent guy might feel bad and is opening up to me again. I came home late last night and he asked if I'd been at work late. Maybe he really caress Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I always knew he was emotionally stunted. But I loved the way I felt a high, like it was a victory, whenever he DID do anything loving. Because it seemed so hard for him that whenever he did, I was convinced I must be super special. And I liked that he was strong and macho. Now, when I make small conversation and he actually asks questions in return, it makes me feel euphoric that this strong, independent guy might feel bad and is opening up to me again. I came home late last night and he asked if I'd been at work late. Maybe he really cares. This reminds me. I once spoke to a woman who used to rescue and tame feral cats. She said she did it because she felt so super special when they responded to her and to no-one else. They weren't super affectionate to her but she knew them and knew when progress was being made. Years tending for animals that so often gave little back. She stopped doing it and I asked her why. She said she had come to a point in her life where she felt she deserved more. She deserved to come home and find a cat that was pleased to see her, a cat that responded positively when she caressed it, a cat that showed it really liked her, and not a cat that appeared to hate her, would run away when she appeared, would not want touched, would not want normal interaction. A cat that needed never-ending patience, a cat that with a huge amount of work put in, could almost be seen to tolerate her, sometimes... She wanted what other people have with their animals, unconditional love and affection - no need for patience, no need for cajoling, no need to be hurt, when they appeared to hate her - just good old honest straightforwardness, calmness and peace. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Elaine567, As a worker for cat rescue for years I understand your analogly. Feral cats are feral. They have never been humanised, and therefore do not make good pets. The best we can do for them is trap them,(when possible) neuter them and then set them free to live their own lives, without increasing the cat population and creating more unwanted animals. Any kittens that belong to feral mothers (that can be caught) can be tamed and placed in new homes. and make loving pets. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Itspointless Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Because it seemed so hard for him that whenever he did, I was convinced I must be super special. Do you not deserve love without hard work, just like everybody else? Or was/is this man a project? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Xiomn Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) First you have to acknowledge what mistakes you made. Only then can you begin to correct them, better yourself and never make the same mistakes again. If you know what mistakes you made then you should know how to not make the same mistakes again. I know that was the case for me, I realised what mistakes I made, I wish I could go back in time and not repeat them, I can't. All I can do is look to the future. See if you can apply this to your case as well. Sorry I know this isn't specific to your case. Edited July 23, 2015 by Xiomn 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I think I understand a lot better now. He IS that feral cat that needs taming, he IS that wild mustang that needs breaking. He is a wild man that with the attention of a good woman is going to turn out to be a real diamond. So far from being abused, she is rolling with the punches, as she has a goal in mind. That wild mustang can cause as much damage as possible, but that man that wants to break him will put up with anything, just so that one day he will be victorious and he will sit on his back and gallop around the range. Rams10 will put up with all this man throws at her, because this is not a relationship to be enjoyed in the here and now, this is a challenge and a project. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author rams10 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Do you not deserve love without hard work, just like everybody else? Or was/is this man a project? I'm terrified of feeling bored and trapped. If I knew a man was truly into me & willing to give as much to a relationship as me, I wouldn't get the same excitement and boost to my self worth. I get such a high when I feel like a man who really loves no one, has chosen me! All I want is to keep playing the game. To go home tonight and This time he'll ask me a few more questions, since he already asked last night why I got home so late- if I was at work- jealousy??? However if he asked me multiple questions about my day or looked up from work to converse for more than 5 minutes, that'd actually be more effort than he gave to the relationship in good times . Which is confusing. I just want to know that on paper i "have" this man who has the same high quality job status as me, and that on the surface I have love. Seriously Elaine, your post is so perfectly on target. No, I've never really enjoyed the here & now, I'd rather work towards a goal to get him to love me- since he has high standing & is good on paper- than to look for "real" love with a good partner and potentially be let down that way too (through boredom, settling). Edited July 23, 2015 by rams10 Link to post Share on other sites
ManyDissapoint Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm terrified of feeling bored and trapped. If I knew a man was truly into me & willing to give as much to a relationship as me, I wouldn't get the same excitement and boost to my self worth. I get such a high when I feel like a man who really loves no one, has chosen me! All I want is to keep playing the game. To go home tonight and This time he'll ask me a few more questions, since he already asked last night why I got home so late- if I was at work- jealousy??? However if he asked me multiple questions about my day or looked up from work to converse for more than 5 minutes, that'd actually be more effort than he gave to the relationship in good times . Which is confusing. I just want to know that on paper i "have" this man who has the same high quality job status as me, and that on the surface I have love. Seriously Elaine, your post is so perfectly on target. No, I've never really enjoyed the here & now, I'd rather work towards a goal to get him to love me- since he has high standing & is good on paper- than to look for "real" love with a good partner and potentially be let down that way too (through boredom, settling). I am not qualified to diagnose what you have, but you have something and it's also combined with a pretty high level of self awareness. What I know is that what you describe is a recipe for unhappiness and being unfulfilled. Something along the lines of not wanting to be a part of any club that would accept you, and only wanting what you can't have. I really think you need some kind of help. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Gus Grimly Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 However if he asked me multiple questions about my day or looked up from work to converse for more than 5 minutes, that'd actually be more effort than he gave to the relationship in good times . WTF? Link to post Share on other sites
organizedchaos Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yes, everyone's point in that thread was that I should be more secure and stop bugging him about marriage. so I'm consideing apologizing to him for that. But meanwhile there were real reasons I couldn't feel secure in the relationship! No, you're still not reading what we wrote. We told you to leave him. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Elaine, your post is so perfectly on target. No, I've never really enjoyed the here & now, I'd rather work towards a goal to get him to love me- since he has high standing & is good on paper- than to look for "real" love with a good partner and potentially be let down that way too (through boredom, settling). Then you need to stop coming here, asking how to get him to change. Because after dozens upon dozens of pages of people telling you that you are wasting your time in workings towards what most people would want in a healthy relationship, you have finally confessed that you don't want that. You want this disfunction and belief that you are "working towards a goal to get him to love" you, when everyone here KNOWS it will never happen. Ram, you are happy with the trickle of occasional attention (all the while knowing he has cheated and will probably cheat on you). But please stop coming here and asking how to change him when that is not possible. Resign yourself to the fact that you have created this living hell and - for some reason - thrive in it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mightycpa Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 No, I've never really enjoyed the here & now, I'd rather work towards a goal to get him to love me- since he has high standing & is good on paper- than to look for "real" love with a good partner and potentially be let down that way too (through boredom, settling).Well, they do say that life is not about the destination, it's about the journey. It sounds like whether you're miserable or happy with the journey you're on, that this is the path you've chosen. God bless! Stop complaining. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 rams10, post #33, All I want is to keep playing the game. That's fine, that's your choice, so carry on playing the "game" - whatever it is -but please stop bugging the heck out of all of us here who are telling you to get off this toxic merry-go-round. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
LeslieKnope Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I came home late last night and he asked if I'd been at work late. Maybe he really caress *Sigh* Rams, this makes me very, very sad. Past behaviour is the best prognosticator for future behaviour, not a passing comment about you working late. Of course he noticed, you live together! Which brings me to another point: it's time to live somewhere else. Let him find another roommate to treat like garbage. He does not care. He's an abusive, egotistical s**t. But YOU let him treat you that way. You need to live by the Eleanor Roosevelt mantra: 'No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.' Years from now, you will be amazed at how much the younger version of you put up with this guy. This horrible, horrible man will be but a blip on your radar, a sad memory. You can and will move on. Link to post Share on other sites
Itspointless Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm terrified of feeling bored and trapped. If I knew a man was truly into me & willing to give as much to a relationship as me, I wouldn't get the same excitement and boost to my self worth. I get such a high when I feel like a man who really loves no one, has chosen me! All I want is to keep playing the game. To go home tonight and This time he'll ask me a few more questions, since he already asked last night why I got home so late- if I was at work- jealousy??? However if he asked me multiple questions about my day or looked up from work to converse for more than 5 minutes, that'd actually be more effort than he gave to the relationship in good times . Which is confusing. I just want to know that on paper i "have" this man who has the same high quality job status as me, and that on the surface I have love. Seriously Elaine, your post is so perfectly on target. No, I've never really enjoyed the here & now, I'd rather work towards a goal to get him to love me- since he has high standing & is good on paper- than to look for "real" love with a good partner and potentially be let down that way too (through boredom, settling). Hi Rams, thank you for your honest answer. You write that you want to play the game at the same time you post about trust and wanting him to put you a ring on the finger. You must agree that seems to be a bit at odds with each-other. It seems that your wishes clash and makes me sympathetic with ManyDissapoint post. You know, it is concerning that you need some kind of emotional abuse to feel good about your relationship. I am sorry to ask, have you been emotionally or otherwise been abused when young? Your writing makes me suspect it. A thrill can also be found in other parts of life! Link to post Share on other sites
Author rams10 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yes. I was both emotionally and physically abused by my ex fiancée. My BF did all the right things on the surface- took me to work parties, asked me to move in (even though he says I "pushed him into it"- true, but I'm sad that I nEEDeD to push and that he didn't want to freely share with me). But always has just felt like there's something missing. The way he'd be romantic but never want to have deep conversations, share about himself, offer any sort of compliments or support or encouragement. The way he asked me to move in then when his best friend asked if he was goingto buy a ring, he ignored that & just responded, "I'm warming up to the idea of her moving in- I like only having to pay half rent." He just seems cold, like he didn't think about living with me to share w me, but only in terms of the $. And indeed while I was there, he could barely be bothered to sit down and have 15 minute conversations w me at night, let alone make dinner together, go for a walk, etc. "how was your day?" "It was good, yours?" Me: "oh this happened"- and I jump into a quick work Story. Him "cool." That was it. Every time. Link to post Share on other sites
Itspointless Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yes. I was both emotionally and physically abused by my ex fiancée. My BF did all the right things on the surface This doesn’t surprise me. I also think this just scratches the surface of what happened to you. It may excite you if you get something by him, that is because you have learned that only such effort means something. and is really deserved That also is why a healthy relationship seems boring to you: you need some kind stress to feel good. But believe me, your body does not agree with that. I believe you write this threads here because deep down you know something isn’t right about all of this. What does it take you to take some action to change this? To stop this game? Link to post Share on other sites
Author rams10 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I would need to know 1) that he truly is scum so i didn't "lose" his affection, he was just playing with me for his own selfish gain; and 2) I can actually find true love and happiness and won't be bored by it Link to post Share on other sites
Itspointless Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I would need to know 1) that he truly is scum so i didn't "lose" his affection, he was just playing with me for his own selfish gain; and 2) I can actually find true love and happiness and won't be bored by it Well, in my world what he is offering you does not count as affection, it are bits of recognition. While meanwhile - what we know- he was lying to you about this girl and is charging you for rent that he sticks into his own pocket. One of these things alone already reads scum to me. 2. Your hormone-system is off, right now you are triggered to excitement by the wrong reasons. This is why therapy was advised to you. 3. He really does not deserve all this effort. Edited July 23, 2015 by Itspointless Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I would need to know 1) that he truly is scum so i didn't "lose" his affection, he was just playing with me for his own selfish gain; and Guaranteed. I like with Itspointless said. You aren't getting affection from him. It is simply recognition. And sex? That is using you. 2) I can actually find true love and happiness and won't be bored by it Do you have true love and happiness now? You find the game exciting, but how much satisfaction are you actually receiving from the relationship? And as for boredom? Only lazy people are bored. Anyone with any sense of adventure in their lives can keep from being bored - in relationships and their everyday existence. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Itspointless Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The aspect 'boredom' triggered with me the thought of insecure attachment and my earlier question about abuse. Insecure attachment people often confuse stability in people on a unconsciousness level with dullness and need some kind of arousal that is perceived as love. In the book Attached (2010) it is written down like this: 'Secures are not afraid of intimacy and know they are worthy of love. They don’t have to beat around the bush or play hard to get. Ambiguous messages are out of the mix, as are tension and suspense. As a result, your attachment system remains relatively calm. Because you are used to equating an activated attachment system with love, you conclude that this can’t be “the one” because no bells are going off. You associate a calm attachment system with boredom and indifference. Because of this fallacy you might let the perfect partner pass you by.' (p. 96) When they talk about an attachment system they also mean our nervous system. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author rams10 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Wow, that last post was incredibly helpful! Except I don't know if "insecurity" has anything to do with THIS relationship failing. He was lying early about small things- pushing back our date and telling me it was a late workday/ he came right home, when he actually responded to a single coworkers text to meet her for a drink w her at work gathering and she texted "was hoping you'd take me home ;)" I saw the Texts but he soon deletes them. Now it wasn't a big lie but got me wondering, could he do more? And YOU try not being insecure when your partner doesn't say I love you for over a year and never asks questions about your life and sneaks out to meet another girl he's been flirting with as soon as he says I love you for first time. He told me "and you think I'm ever going to change? You know I did it in last relationship too" Link to post Share on other sites
Itspointless Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Wow, that last post was incredibly helpful! Except I don't know if "insecurity" has anything to do with THIS relationship failing. Somehow I am attracted to women who might abandon me. It is not that they are awful people, but I apparently used to miss signs, pointing me that I have to look within myself. The insecurity I am talking about has to do with very deep believes about ourselves and other people and the way certain things are wired in our brains. I do think your boyfriend is treating you really awful though. I think it would be wise for you to read up on attachment theory and trauma. You mind want to start with the book 'Why Can't I Change? How to Conquer Your Self-Destructive Patterns.' and this test: Attachment Styles and Close Relationships You also might want to read the books on trauma (and attachment) by Jon G Allen: 'Coping with Trauma: Hope Through Understanding' and 'Mentalizing in the Development and Treatment of Attachment Trauma'. Also the book ''the body keeps the score brain mind and body in the healing of trauma' by Bessel van der Kolk. Really insightful books. I agree with ManyDissapoint that you seem to be self-aware. I do notice that you seem to have internalized some cognitive believes that you might want to work on for example with Schema Therapy or CBT. Next to this you might be helped with some kind of body work like the psychiatrist Van der Kolk is also writing about in his later chapters. I really think you should leave your boyfriend. Edited July 24, 2015 by Itspointless Link to post Share on other sites
Author rams10 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Don't you recall how many posters have told me in past its my fault for being non trusting and bugging him about marriage? Maybe they didn't know about lies he told, deleting texts, and how his first "I love you and will Marry you" was followed by hug from me but then sneaking to meet other girl. And that he never tried to make deep conversation ever Link to post Share on other sites
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