Epidemic of WAW

[chew123]

I am getting curious. Every day I come to this thread there seems to be a few more people whose wives are cheating on them and leaving. there seems to be a small number of women reporting that they have a WAH.

 

Is that because men are not walking away in similar numbers? Or is it because this is a forum that caters mainly to men. I know that there are many exceptions and I am not trying to discount the women who have suffered with a walk away spouse, it just seems that it is primarily women walking away.

 

As a counter to this the chumplady site seems to be made up of primarily woman who have had WAHs. So maybe it is site specific.

[GorillaTheater]

This is strictly anecdotal on my part, but while the numbers of cheaters split pretty evenly, with men perhaps still a little in the lead, my perception is that women in affairs are more likely to leave than men in affairs. Chalk it up to men's greater capacity to compartmentalize, or comfort with cake-eating, or whatever else.

[Mr. Lucky]

This is strictly anecdotal on my part, but while the numbers of cheaters split pretty evenly, with men perhaps still a little in the lead, my perception is that women in affairs are more likely to leave than men in affairs. Chalk it up to men's greater capacity to compartmentalize, or comfort with cake-eating, or whatever else.

 

Agreed. I think many men see their sexual needs and marital needs as two separate things. If they're married to a SAHM, I also think a sense of entitlement can come into play...

 

Mr. Lucky

[starglider]

I think that WHs don't usually want to divorce. BHs often do. I also think that WWs tend to know what they are risking when they get into an A (even if they are going through a midlife crisis, they know in the back of their mind what is at stake). Often it seems that BWs are willing to give reconciliation a shot with their WH.

 

The fact that 66%-80% of divorces are filed by women is staggering. I saw one study put it up near 90%. Something is wrong with gender politics in our culture. Even as a woman, I feel for men ... men tend to have it much worse in divorce.

[carhill]

IRL, I saw a bit of that (WAW's or MW's converting) in my late 40's but not so much now.

 

However, even in the incidences of WAW's, there was no immediacy. As example, one MW I was involved with when she was 22 had multiple affairs over the next 16 years and remained married, in total, for about 20 years. Another, unfortunately gone now, had an affair with her employer after nearly 16 years of marriage and remained married another four before getting divorced about the same time my exW and I did. I experienced her 'fishing expeditions' firsthand. Still, she didn't walk away, rather stayed in the marriage milieu. A couple others were like her, having affairs after relatively long marriages but, instead of divorcing, remained married, so didn't walk away. I'm only going on what the ladies shared with me directly, or what I experienced directly as an OM.

 

Since my D, even in contact with the same social circle, things are pretty quiet right now. I heard rumblings of a breakup at a friend's recent retirement party, not the friend retiring but rather the host and I did hear some gossip about him having a 'friend' there even as he and his wife were hosting the event for 100 or so people. Of course, none of that is verified. Other than that, though, eerily quiet. Lots of 25-35 year marriages going on as normal.

[starglider]

What is a WAW and WAH? I assumed it meant Wayward Affair Wife/Husband (same thing as WW WH - wayward wife/husband) but maybe I'm wrong?

[mrldii]

...

The fact that 66%-80% of divorces are filed by women is staggering. I saw one study put it up near 90%. Something is wrong with gender politics in our culture. Even as a woman, I feel for men ... men tend to have it much worse in divorce.

 

This may be misconstruing what that factual data represents; the information that the majority - perhaps as much as 90%! - of divorces are filed for by women could simply be statistics bearing out the fact that it is [generally-speaking] women who are typically charged with being the relationship-keepers.

 

Once she says she's had enough and will no longer work towards a resolution/reconciliation with her mate (wayward or otherwise), the next step IS filing for a divorce.

 

Who actually files for the divorce is rarely indicative of who was 'most at fault' in the demise of the relationship...if such a thing is even measurable.

[lollipopspot]

men tend to have it much worse in divorce.

 

The law is not based on gender, it is based on role. If the man is the SAHF, he will get the same support as a SAHM. If the woman earns more, she will have to pay more to her spouse.

 

If someone doesn't want to pay any support to their spouse after divorce, then don't support them being a nonworking spouse/parent for years, and choose someone whose earning capacity is roughly similar. It's fairly obvious.

[starglider]

Who actually files for the divorce is rarely indicative of who was 'most at fault' in the demise of the relationship...if such a thing is even measurable.

I agree with your statement that the actual filing does not tell the full story of the trajectory or "fault" of the demise. However, anecdotally I've witnessed about that same percentage of women being the ones who ultimately decided the M was over. Even when there was no infidelity, it is quite significant to me that women decide to end M much more often then men do.

 

I think this needs to be explored more by our culture. Evolutionary Psychology, MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way), "The Rational Male" are some arenas where this topic is being explored, and rightly so, I believe.

[elaine567]

Women are leaving in droves, because it is apparent to me that many men are not putting the work into relationships that modern women need. Women have changed and men are struggling to keep up.

 

Many married men are happy with their regular sex, their sport, their nights out, their affairs... they then free-wheel through their marriages - leaving women to do the real emotional work.

The fairy tale does not have a good ending, resentment builds until the women either leave on their own or they find a willing partner to have an exit affair with.

 

As women are now totally capable of living alone with or without kids, and are now free of the dreadful traditional stigma of being a female "divorcee", they are also now capable of securing a better model if the old one doesn't come up to expectations.

Prior to this modern age, she had to basically suck it up - no matter how bad it got - now she has options.

[mrldii]

I agree with your statement that the actual filing does not tell the full story of the trajectory or "fault" of the demise. However, anecdotally I've witnessed about that same percentage of women being the ones who ultimately decided the M was over. Even when there was no infidelity, it is quite significant to me that women decide to end M much more often then men do.

 

I think this needs to be explored more by our culture. Evolutionary Psychology, MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way), "The Rational Male" are some arenas where this topic is being explored, and rightly so, I believe.

 

 

We can explore it all we want, but sociologically-speaking, we've pretty much determined that women - who are *better* suited to being nurturing, emotional types and are more *needing* of emotional attachments - are the Keepers of the Relationship.

 

MGTOW and all the other such *new* phenomena may be nothing more than (a particular group of) men's reaction to the fact that Western women now have more economic and political power and no longer require marriage to ensure her financial stability in life and when raising her young. It also may have to do with the fact that women are becoming more educated...to the point that they are graduating with college degrees at higher rates than men are.

 

As women of all ages realize a mate is a luxury within - not a necessity to - A Good Life, some men are picking up their ball(s) and going home...i.e., MGTOW-g. Often, much to their dismay, the men who choose to 'MGTOW' are hurt to discover The Women haven't even noticed their departure.

Edited July 22, 2015 by mrldii
double quoted-post

[elaine567]

As women of all ages realize a mate is a luxury within - not a necessity to - A Good Life, some men are picking up their ball(s) and going home...i.e., MGTOW-g.

Often, much to their dismay, the men who choose to 'MGTOW' are hurt to discover The Women haven't even noticed their departure.

 

^^^true^^^

 

30 years ago, some women may have been aghast at MGTOW.

Men who do not want to have anything to do with women, men who do not want to marry and have children...Shocking!

 

But in the intervening period women have got a lot stronger and more self-reliant and confident, so

 

"Don't want to play the game?

That's OK, see ya..."

[chew123]

Elaine,

 

If I understand it you are saying that woman are leaving because the men are not good enough? And the woman are the ones putting the effort into the relationships? Most of the WAW that I see on this site are leaving because they are having affairs and leaving for the AP. So yes they are putting in the effort but it is with their AP and not their loyal spouse.

 

And many of the bs are left behind wondering what happened because the wives never plainly voiced that anything was wrong. Instead they left passive aggressive hints and clues that they may be unhappy. If that is how woman have changed i guess that may be true but I would not call it change for the better.

 

Either way it sounds like we do agree. Woman are the ones who are leaving. I wonder what the stats are on how many are happier a few years after leaving and how many regret blowing up their family. Impossible to know I guess.

[DKT3]

Women file for divorce but men abandon the marriage well before that. Wife file at a much higher clip because they more often WIN the divorce. I know three men that walked out on their wives having been done yet none filed for divorce.

 

While its true that a WW is far more likely to leave the marriage (generally to be with AP and not to get away from the BH), infidelity is still less the a 1/4 or the reasons for divorce and firmly behind money problems. I don't thing that it would change that 80-90% that much.

[LoveMyCat]

Jmo, at least with many men I have encountered...they tend to be "lazier" i.e to just let things go on, either while in a lackluster marriage or during a separation. Most men, unless they want to remarry, just can't be bothered with the actual filing, as long as they are relatively content with either the separation or the status of the home life, access to kids, etc...again just my opinion and experiences. Maybe they continue an affair, if they are having one. Eventually, the wife will take action by default.

 

I have been separated for eight months and just filed for a legal separation from my husband, in order to get our finances separated (community property state). He is in complete shock and angry beyond belief...despite the fact that he asked/told me to move out. He had it in his mind that I was having affairs (never happened, not even close, not even any friendships to be misconstrued. Just total fiction or paranoia of some sort-he suffers from depression and other issues.) He would have been perfectly content to leave things "as is" forever, it seems. We had never considered reconciling. If he had filed, I would have been thrilled and relieved. Instead I had to do,it and he is livid. Go figure.

[No Limit]

Seems that men are happy to 'keep' a woman while at the same time going out to 'claim' some more by keeping them 'under their thumb' via marriage contract. Maybe that's the less-annoying version of men who are trying to get women pregnant on purpose (which has also become a trend - so much for the fears and life-devastating-effects of paying child support)?

[elaine567]

Elaine,

 

If I understand it you are saying that woman are leaving because the men are not good enough? And the woman are the ones putting the effort into the relationships? Most of the WAW that I see on this site are leaving because they are having affairs and leaving for the AP. So yes they are putting in the effort but it is with their AP and not their loyal spouse.

 

And many of the bs are left behind wondering what happened because the wives never plainly voiced that anything was wrong. Instead they left passive aggressive hints and clues that they may be unhappy. If that is how woman have changed i guess that may be true but I would not call it change for the better.

 

Either way it sounds like we do agree. Woman are the ones who are leaving. I wonder what the stats are on how many are happier a few years after leaving and how many regret blowing up their family. Impossible to know I guess.

 

I believe that those "passive aggressive hints" are often the result of being dismissed or not listened to or her concerns are minimised.

Men can do this and think nothing of it, they then think the problem is sorted and solved, but not from her POV.

Women tend to remember.

She tolerates the behaviour, until resentment starts building and the passive aggression starts.

She then emotionally disconnects and starts looking around for an out.

That out can be in the shape of an OM.

-----------------------------------------

 

Her:Can you look after the kids one Saturday for me, so I can meet my friends in the afternoon for some coffee, Nina, Mary, Emily and Sarah are there usually once a month, it is Nina's birthday soon and I want to see her as it has been ages?

Him: You know that is my football time, but yeah sometime...

Six weeks later

Her: I still haven't been able to meet my friends...2 hours for coffee and a chat its not a lot to ask once a month... I never see them any more.

Him: But you women do too much talking anyway, wink wink!

Her: Cut the rubbish out...you are so self centred, can you just look after the kids for me next Saturday for a few hours?

Him: I'll see. (if she thinks I am ever giving up my Saturday football for some women's coffee meeting, she is nuts)

Six months later.

Her: I am so sick of bl**dy football every Saturday...

Him: Moan, moan moan... (thinks: must be her time of the month, a man can surely spend time at the football, without all this cr*p)

One year later

Saturday

Him: I'm just away out to meet the lads at the match, I might have a few beers, don't wait up.

Her: Silence.

Him: What the f*ck is wrong with you?

18 months later

Her: I am leaving and taking the kids with me.

Him: (blindsided) What did I do wrong...????

[chew123]

Elaine,

 

I guess that may be true in some cases. Not mine though. Thought no one is perfect.

 

I do have to say though that your tact on this seems to defend the affairs. Are you of the opinion that the bs is responsible for the affair? And that the WAS is justified in having the affair rather then being a normal partner and using words to communicate rather then hints?

 

I know many people do feel that affairs are justified. I am not in that camp though. Affairs cause too much damage and are never an appropriate response. Divorce on the other hand is certainly warranted in many situations.

[elaine567]

Elaine,

 

I guess that may be true in some cases. Not mine though. Thought no one is perfect.

 

I do have to say though that your tact on this seems to defend the affairs. Are you of the opinion that the bs is responsible for the affair? And that the WAS is justified in having the affair rather then being a normal partner and using words to communicate rather then hints?

 

I know many people do feel that affairs are justified. I am not in that camp though. Affairs cause too much damage and are never an appropriate response. Divorce on the other hand is certainly warranted in many situations.

 

I was speaking generally about women and divorce, not specifically about affairs.

 

I do not defend affairs, individuals who conduct affairs are usually conflict avoiders (hence the hints and no straight talking) or people with little empathy for those they hurt.

 

Affairs are devastating both for the present relationship and for any future relationships too, of anyone affected by them.

I think those who are unhappy in their marriages and see no way forward, should man up/woman up, bite the bullet, split, leave and/or divorce, not rely on an OM or OW to prop them up or get them out of a sticky situation.

Divorce is often not a totally clean solution, but it is so much better than the carnage that an affair can wreak on people's lives.

[m.snow]

don't let the site fool you in term's of raw statistics, husbands still cheat on wives more often than the vice versa.

 

its that most men to turn to sites like these cause its an environment to express their pains and suffering which is frowned upon (men don't cry). its difficult for men to talk to friends about infidelity. cause it would always lead to the man being the problem.

 

hence notions,

when a wife cheats the problem is with the husband

when a husband cheats his is just being a man

[chew123]

Elaine,

 

Thanks for the clarification and I agree with you totally.

[carhill]

In my demographic, given the realities of today's social and legal environment, I'm actually surprised that women don't walk away more often, rather choose to grow long marriages. In today's world, there is really little keeping them married other than their desire to want it. They're independent, often monied in their own right, kids are either done or can be handled by co-parenting or paid professionals, divorce is commonplace and legal partnerships can be quickly and easily dissolved. A replacement man usually will make his intentions known long before any divorce occurs. There's really no downside. Yet the ladies stay married. Heartening, if you ask me. Good on them.

[66Charger]

Women are being told, "They dont NEED a man.

 

Men are listening and saying, ok, then I wont marry you..

 

The increase in women divorcing parallels the increase in Men NEVER wanting to marry.

Why should we? We are Lazy, inattentive, dont validate enough, work to hard, work to little, are disposable, dont do the dishes, will get crucified in a divorce and now according to some here, are now told they dont even care. Next guy in line. Women are sweet, smart, perfect, caring and would never EVER cheat. Woman good, Man bad. Come in now. Thats not true. Stop beating on men so badly. Most try pretty hard.

 

The sepration of genders is coming at a huge cost. You think your winning. Really? This is killing the romantic and the thought of forever.

 

The diamond is a woman who is not jaded by soceity. Who still believes in romance and fairy tales and the forever. Who has no problem saying she needs her man. She gets the ring. You get the cats.

 

Tear the post apart, it is what you are being taught.

[elaine567]

In my demographic, given the realities of today's social and legal environment, I'm actually surprised that women don't walk away more often, rather choose to grow long marriages. In today's world, there is really little keeping them married other than their desire to want it. They're independent, often monied in their own right, kids are either done or can be handled by co-parenting or paid professionals, divorce is commonplace and legal partnerships can be quickly and easily dissolved. A replacement man usually will make his intentions known long before any divorce occurs. There's really no downside. Yet the ladies stay married. Heartening, if you ask me. Good on them.

 

Divorcing baby boomers seize the moment to go it alone | Life and style | The Guardian

They are called the "silver splitters", or grey divorcees. They are the baby boomers who have it all and still aren't happy, at least not together. As the divorce rate drops among other age groups, the rate of separations between couples in their 50s and 60s continues to rise. Not so much a seven-year itch as a 27- or 37-year one, the number of over-60s divorcing has risen by over a third in a decade.

[carhill]

Yeah, I've read that stuff but am not seeing it locally. I guess, once the M's around here get past silver range, the people are pretty much invested in them for life. From personal experience, the 5-15 years range was the most volatile from the divorce standpoint. Most of the single women I dated were members of that group, generally from age 25 to age 40. As an example, my exW was married for six years (21-27) to her first H and 8 years (28-36) to her second H. We were married ten. That's been pretty commonplace. It's been, generally, around the 35yo mark that the long marriages have begun, with rare exceptions. Most of my friends who've been married 25-30 years, generally second M's, got married between 30 and 35. Personally, I don't know anyone my age in my social circle who's still on their first M. A couple of friend's kids are and have been married 20-25 years but that's it. One of my prior anecdotes about an A without WAW came from that group.