Child's mother being unreasonable, completely lost as to how to handle it.

[Keenly]

I’d suggest writing up a proposed parenting plan using the online forms for your jurisdiction, tell her that you’d like to come up with a plan together, especially now that daughter is going to be in school more. Tell her that this plan was what you were thinking and listen to her position. When she disagrees (which she will- so don’t get mad if she does), ask , “ok. I want to work something out that works for everyone. So, what would you have in mind that will work for you and <daughter>?” Don’t force an immediate decision. Maybe suggest that she think about it and say you will too, and that you’d like to talk about it again in a week or two. Put your finger down and work with her on this. You have 12 years to go. Best to work on co-parenting now.

 

In my experience lots of the parents who have an awful irrational bad-guy co-parent are also being war-like, without even realizing it. At minimum, they’re entrenched in good guy/bad guy thinking themselves and that’s VERY hard to overcome internally. Read through the list of names and labels you’ve assigned to her and consider the possibility that you could both adjust your thinking and your interactions. It’s not evil to not like your ex, but own that it might be a two-way street and resolve to shift yourself for your daughter’s sake. Kids. Gotta love 'em. They force us to change even if they don't intend to.

 

I can say with absolute sincerity that in this specific case, it's a one way street. I treat her with a great deal of respect, and I always have. I do not start arguments, as I hate fighting, and I also walk on eggshells around every interaction I have with her.

 

 

I'll give another example. We're potty training right now. My daughter is 2 and 2 months old. She yelled at me because I had our two year old in a diaper. She was alleging that the sole reason our two year old has accidents at school is because one Wednesday I had my daughter in a diaper (so she didn't pee all over my apartment) . I tried to explain that I'm still taking her to the bathroom every twenty minutes, and that the diaper was strictly to prevent messy accidents, she didn't care.

 

It was my fault that our daughter has accidents at school. How is that even rational?

 

 

For however little a guy named Keenly on the intenets word is worth, I can assure you, I don't ever try and start **** with her, and I go out of my way to be nice to her.

[BlueIris]

On the potty training thing, did you two agree on how to go about it? Had you talked about it? If you don’t have an agreement, it’s more likely that you’ll have conflict. If one of you isn’t following an agreement, it’s going to cause conflict. That’s kid-focused and solution-focused rather than mom-versus-dad focused. There are various ways to do it:

6 Potty Training Methods | Parenting

[PrettyEmily77]

I can say with absolute sincerity that in this specific case, it's a one way street. I treat her with a great deal of respect, and I always have. I do not start arguments, as I hate fighting, and I also walk on eggshells around every interaction I have with her.

 

 

I'll give another example. We're potty training right now. My daughter is 2 and 2 months old. She yelled at me because I had our two year old in a diaper. She was alleging that the sole reason our two year old has accidents at school is because one Wednesday I had my daughter in a diaper (so she didn't pee all over my apartment) . I tried to explain that I'm still taking her to the bathroom every twenty minutes, and that the diaper was strictly to prevent messy accidents, she didn't care.

 

It was my fault that our daughter has accidents at school. How is that even rational?

 

 

For however little a guy named Keenly on the intenets word is worth, I can assure you, I don't ever try and start **** with her, and I go out of my way to be nice to her.

 

 

Man, I almost did the exact same mistake with my niece a few months ago with the whole potty training thing (she was roughly the same age as your daughter then) and both my brother and SIL were very, very clear - when potty training, no nappy (diaper?) is allowed at any time during the day or it will confuse the child and delay the whole process. They told me if I wasn't prepared to deal with accidents in my flat, that I should wait until she's fully potty trained to have her over. I actually think this is perfectly rational.

 

 

Your ex is allowing contact when she doesn't have to, which shows, all things considered, that she is not unreasonable. Like many posters said, an official legal review of your visitation rights should be sought at this stage, if t justified and beneficial to your daughter.

Edited July 24, 2015 by PrettyEmily77

[Keenly]

On the potty training thing, did you two agree on how to go about it? Had you talked about it? If you don’t have an agreement, it’s more likely that you’ll have conflict. If one of you isn’t following an agreement, it’s going to cause conflict. That’s kid-focused and solution-focused rather than mom-versus-dad focused. There are various ways to do it:

6 Potty Training Methods | Parenting

 

If you're asking me if we agree on anything regarding my daughter, I could not tell you whether I agreed or disagreed, because according to her, I don't deserve a say.

 

I am not now, nor have I ever been informed of, or involved in any kind of discussion regarding the raising of my daughter, the methods to be used, any information as to how to go about implementing said methods... Regarding anything. I didn't even get a say in her name, and I was never even told she went into labor when she was born (which she still blames me for not being there, even though she told the staff not to let me in, and also never told me it was happening or where)

 

So I couldn't say if I agreed. I'm never included on anything.

 

Keep in mind I've never hit her, hurt her physically, threatened her, put her in any harm, and I've never done anything that would warrant this kind of alienation. She just does it because that's the power she has over me at this point.

 

 

It breaks my heart that I'm not consulted as to my parental opinion on things, I'm not told about milestones being reached or any achievements she might accomplish. Everything I find out about my daughter is second hand through my mother or her family. Facebook knows everything about my daughter before any of it reaches my ears.

Honestly... Writing it out makes me want to cry because it makes me feel so worthless. Am I not worth my parenting opinions on how to raise my own daughter?

 

 

Am I not important enough to be consulted in what to name her, what values to instill in her, or anything like that? I keep asking myself what have I done to be treated like a total stranger.

[writergal]

That is why you need to listen to the divorced parents in this thread who advise you to submit a parenting plan. And to ask for 50% custody since your visitation is wide open. Without a parenting plan, your wife will never include you in how to raise your daughter. That's why you need a parenting plan. Anyway, listen to the advice from the divorced parents. They have been through what you're going through.

 

 

If you're asking me if we agree on anything regarding my daughter, I could not tell you whether I agreed or disagreed, because according to her, I don't deserve a say.

 

I am not now, nor have I ever been informed of, or involved in any kind of discussion regarding the raising of my daughter, the methods to be used, any information as to how to go about implementing said methods... Regarding anything. I didn't even get a say in her name, and I was never even told she went into labor when she was born (which she still blames me for not being there, even though she told the staff not to let me in, and also never told me it was happening or where)

 

So I couldn't say if I agreed. I'm never included on anything.

 

Keep in mind I've never hit her, hurt her physically, threatened her, put her in any harm, and I've never done anything that would warrant this kind of alienation. She just does it because that's the power she has over me at this point.

 

 

It breaks my heart that I'm not consulted as to my parental opinion on things, I'm not told about milestones being reached or any achievements she might accomplish. Everything I find out about my daughter is second hand through my mother or her family. Facebook knows everything about my daughter before any of it reaches my ears.

Honestly... Writing it out makes me want to cry because it makes me feel so worthless. Am I not worth my parenting opinions on how to raise my own daughter?

 

 

Am I not important enough to be consulted in what to name her, what values to instill in her, or anything like that? I keep asking myself what have I done to be treated like a total stranger.

[BlueIris]

Ok. You guys have some negative history and that will take time to heal.

 

I’m just giving a hypothetical here: So, Mom tells Dad that daughter is beginning potty training. Maybe she tells him why, maybe not. Preschool or day care is often a reason when there are two working parents. Is the potty training related to having daycare so both can work? If it is, then both want it, right?

 

The fact is, Mom is the 70% parent at this point and you don’t want more. That can lead some people to think that they're not an equal parent in their own mind, and they can kind of ride. If that's the case, you can change that. Having your child less time doesn’t mean you can’t be an involved and reflective parent. What does happen when a child is two? What’s on the horizon? What are three and four going to be like? No criticism meant- but, really, had you thought about when and how to go about potty training before she brought it up? If you hadn’t, take it as a lesson learned, and start reading and talking to other parents about parenting so that you can be a contributor.

 

Without a parenting plan, your wife will never include you in how to raise your daughter.

Maybe. But maybe not. She might be willing to and we don't know how OP is parenting. He might be too passive or defensive at this point- which can be changed, if it is the case.

Edited July 24, 2015 by BlueIris

[lollipopspot]

Am I not important enough to be consulted in what to name her

 

From what you wrote earlier, back when she was born you were not pleased at all, and it took awhile (1.5 years?) for you to be part of her life. I can see why you weren't consulted about the name, if the mother thought she would be doing it all herself. Now things have changed, and my guess is that she still resents how things played out in the beginning. I think these old resentments are poisoning the present. I assume that you didn't find the mother so irrational and difficult for the years that you knew her before the child was born, so it seems to me that anger and resentment is clouding the communication, and it's building on both sides now. Is there any way to seek some type of co-parenting counseling together?

 

I agree with the others that you'd best try to establish some type of legal standing for custody.

Edited July 24, 2015 by lollipopspot

[Keenly]

From what you wrote earlier, back when she was born you were not pleased at all, and it took awhile (1.5 years?) for you to be part of her life. I can see why you weren't consulted about the name, if the mother thought she would be doing it all herself. Now things have changed, and my guess is that she still resents how things played out in the beginning. I think these old resentments are poisoning the present. I assume that you didn't find the mother so irrational and difficult for the years that you knew her before the child was born, so it seems to me that anger and resentment is clouding the communication, and it's building on both sides now. Is there any way to seek some type of co-parenting counseling together?

 

I agree with the others that you'd best try to establish some type of legal standing for custody.

It's interesting that you would ask that because I had typed out that text message yesterday and chose not to send it. I knew how it would be denied instantly.

 

 

Random but of info, my ex is a teacher at the school my daughter attends. Is even the teacher of her current class.

 

I wasn't told about the potty training until that day that I had her. I could of used some information. But none was forthcoming from Her. So I went with what I could Google, and nothing said keep the diaper off. I still wouldn't do that, as I'm not okay with pee in my apartment.

 

Now, you are correct about her resentment and her still harboring it. When she got pregnant, we were at the rock bottom of our relationship. I hated being around her because she only wanted to insult me and tell me how horrible I was, and I was sure she was cheating on me ( she was) and as soon as she got pregnant she went into control mode. She was in charge, and that's when I started to notice my opinion not mattering.

 

Tried to work through it, but she didn't understand the fears that I had about being a parent. The fears that I had about our relationship, and how this was all going to work. Soon the negativity became a lot to bear, and we ended things.

 

That's when it got nasty. She would harass me with pictures of her new boyfriend. Right to my phone. She would text me terrible things, using everything I had ever confided in her in confidence against me, all.my fears, my weaknesses ( People wonder why women scare the hell out of me lol)

 

Basically I hated her because she was intentionally causing me pain, and loving it.

 

 

Fast forward to after she was born, I start spending time with her. I don't know how to care for an infant, and I didn't have any kind of support system or anyone to go to for advice or help, so I did what I could.

 

Our bond didn't really develop until about a year ago. She started seeing me as the role that I was, her daddy.

 

Things were going pretty okay for the most part, We had the usual fight over her impulsive way of living life vs my scheduling habit of living life and we agreed to make a schedul. Things were going smooth as butter. She has had classes and I'd watch her on her class days.

 

Then I found out that she was having her call the other boyfriend daddy. I was furious. She didn't seem to think she was wrong for doing so. Que Next big fight.

 

Stuff calmed down after I dropped all contact with her and stuck to the schedul. Her and her boyfriend break up, again, all of a sudden she's my best friend. Business as usual, as this always happens.

 

Last week we ran some errands while we were transferring my daughter from one parent to the other. Joking, laughing, typical friendly stuff. We were good in all ways a week ago.

 

Now we have this dumb argument over not changing the schedule so she could have dinner.

 

 

She is still resentful, yes. But it doesn't seem she's willing to let go of that resentment. I've never once been absent during an emergency, and I'm always there when I'm needed and mostly available when she just needs A little help. I've told her if she ever needs money or anything at all that I'm a phone call awa, anything she needs.

 

 

She knows I love her, she knows I'll always be there for her, but she still won't let go of her resentment. I've let go of mine, which was hard to do of course, and I just wish she would open up a little about it.

 

 

How many years must I be treated like a second class family member rather than as a father? How long do I deserve to be treated like nothing, and be expected to have no say in my daughter's life?

[Keenly]

What exactly do I need to do to earn my title as father? all I've ever wanted and asked for was to be seen as an equal member of a two person team.

 

 

Instead I get told I'm a deadbeat terrible father because he won't move one day.

[SammySammy]

What exactly do I need to do to earn my title as father? all I've ever wanted and asked for was to be seen as an equal member of a two person team.

 

 

Instead I get told I'm a deadbeat terrible father because he won't move one day.

 

You'll get that title from your daughter.

 

Your ex may never see as more than a deadbeat terrible father whether that is fair or not.

 

Your daughter saying you're a great father will make the ex's antics meaningless. Trust me.

[Keenly]

You'll get that title from your daughter.

 

Your ex may never see as more than a deadbeat terrible father whether that is fair or not.

 

Your daughter saying you're a great father will make the ex's antics meaningless. Trust me.

 

It might. Hopefully it does.

 

I've always wanted to have a real family, as I never had one. Makes me so sad that it won't happen for my little girl either.

 

What I am doing is keeping a close eye and ear out for anything that implies parental alienation. Going straight to court immediately if I ever see any of that.

[BlueIris]

OP, You’re a smart guy and you’ve fallen in love with your daughter and those are great things. Nothing will change you more than being a parent, no matter what anyone else in the world does or says.

 

And fully expect people to criticize your parenting. Wait til she gets to school and her teacher said something that’s different from what you said. Or the day she decides that her friend’s daddy is better than you. My kids chose better mommies every now and then. One even packed. That’s a real stab in the heart. (They’re fine kids, 28 & 24 now. They did not move in with the better mommies.)

 

“Honestly... Writing it out makes me want to cry because it makes me feel so worthless.” I can understand that. So here’s something you can do about it. Not a panacea, but a good step that’s about you and your little girl. Focus on your home, your daughter and your parenting. Read parenting books and sites. Talk to other parents when you go to the park with her. Ponder how YOU want to parent in your home, during your time.

 

The more you focus on the relationship between you and your daughter, the more confident you will feel and the less other people’s opinions will matter. Also, you might even find that you can see her mom’s opinion abut parenting. You might find you two actually agree on some things. You might start bringing up parenting things with the mom as time goes on. Like maybe daughter shows interest in something. You notice it. You take her to see or do it a few times. Then you mention it to her mom and ask her what she thinks about it- just discussion. My oldest was born loving horses (past life thing I guess- lol). My youngest was born with perfect pitch and perfect ballet feet and turn out, and yet her dad and I are clods. Anyway, my point is that lots of parenting is noticing who your kid is, focusing on her and not letting the chatter get in the way of that. And you’ll never question or care whether someone else thinks you’ve earned your dad-stripes.

[Haydn]

50-50 Even more....

 

Has to be keenly.

 

Making yourself available....

 

Dropping things you have planned.

 

Doing the dirty jobs.

 

Showing that you are actually available 24 hours a day for your child and wanting to be.

 

Nothing else will do. You are a father and `she` comes first.

 

All else at the moment is 2nd.

[wizer]

Last night she asked if I could switch from Friday and Saturday to Saturday and Sunday so that she could take my daughter with her to her sisters house so they could have dinner.I did not respond because I knew it would start a fight. I was right.

 

 

This morning I responded with "if it's all the same, I'd like to keep the schedule. "

 

You could have handled things a LOT better than you did and avoided this ongoing conflict and strife.

 

She asked if you could make a switch and you could not because it would interfere with your own plans.

 

That's fine.

 

So when she asked, you could have immediately responded and said "I'm sorry, normally I would be more than willing to make the switch to accommodate you as I usually do but this weekend won't work for me".

 

Rather than what you did say which was Nothing- you ignored her for a day and then responded with "If it's all the same.. I'd like to keep the schedule" without even offering a reason.

 

Look you don't HAVE to give a reason. You can IGNORE her requests for 24 hours and then refuse her without explaining why.

 

But when she freaks out on you, when she is unreasonable to your requests of her, you have only yourself to blame for the continued conflict.

[preraph]

IMO, if you're going to keep everything "open," you are just as good as still married. Go get on a real shared 50/50 custody schedule that's legal and stick to it and stop living in this hinterland where you have the worse of everything.

[Keenly]

You could have handled things a LOT better than you did and avoided this ongoing conflict and strife.

 

She asked if you could make a switch and you could not because it would interfere with your own plans.

 

That's fine.

 

So when she asked, you could have immediately responded and said "I'm sorry, normally I would be more than willing to make the switch to accommodate you as I usually do but this weekend won't work for me".

 

Rather than what you did say which was Nothing- you ignored her for a day and then responded with "If it's all the same.. I'd like to keep the schedule" without even offering a reason.

 

Look you don't HAVE to give a reason. You can IGNORE her requests for 24 hours and then refuse her without explaining why.

 

But when she freaks out on you, when she is unreasonable to your requests of her, you have only yourself to blame for the continued conflict.

 

You are applying facts that aren't there. I waited 6 hours to respond to her because I got this request around 1030 pm, right as I climbed into bed. I woke up at 5 and responded when I awake. I didn't just leave it there For a day.

 

I chose not to respond because I don't want an argument right before I go to Bed. I guess that somehow makes the entire premise of the argument my fault?

[BlueIris]

It might. Hopefully it does.

 

I've always wanted to have a real family, as I never had one. Makes me so sad that it won't happen for my little girl either.

 

What I am doing is keeping a close eye and ear out for anything that implies parental alienation. Going straight to court immediately if I ever see any of that.

 

C'mon, OP. This is so negative and war-like. So long as you stay in this perspective and posture, you're part of the problem. Work on this.

What's a "real" family? You've decided already that your child is growing up in disadvantaged circumstances? And you're bracing for a court fight?

Focus on being a daddy. This thinking is poison.

[Keenly]

IMO, if you're going to keep everything "open," you are just as good as still married. Go get on a real shared 50/50 custody schedule that's legal and stick to it and stop living in this hinterland where you have the worse of everything.

 

 

Did I say I had the worse of everything? I said that I'm not permitted apparently to keep the schedulet, and that I'm tired of arguments over things that don't make any sense.

 

 

Is it seriously too much to ask to have a schedule that we actually follow, for her to be just as flexible as I am, and for mutual respect? Too much to ask? Your right I'll just go back to getting " the worse of everything ".

[Keenly]

C'mon, OP. This is so negative and war-like. So long as you stay in this perspective and posture, you're part of the problem. Work on this.

What's a "real" family? You've decided already that your child is growing up in disadvantaged circumstances? And you're bracing for a court fight?

Focus on being a daddy. This thinking is poison.

 

Where do you think I get the negativity? Did you miss the thread where she is teaching my daughter to call the boyfriend that beats her daddy?

 

I don't pull these concerns out of my ass. Any parent would be furious to learn theirh counterpart was teaching their child to call another person daddy or mommy.

[Keenly]

As to what a real family is, two parents. Mom and Dad together raising a kid / kids. Too much to ask for? I guess so.

[BlueIris]

Ok. It's her fault. I get that you are really invested in that at this point. But it's an easy out and a convenient abrogation of responsibility. Your opinions about your family of origin are her fault, too? Of course they're not.

 

You can only change yourself. And that's a good thing. Really good. It's empowering.

[Keenly]

Ok. It's her fault. I get that you are really invested in that at this point. But it's an easy out and a convenient abrogation of responsibility. Your opinions about your family of origin are her fault, too? Of course they're not.

 

You can only change yourself. And that's a good thing. Really good. It's empowering.

 

Such a helpful response.

 

What exactly is it that I need to change?

 

 

 

Come on people. If I'm doing something wrong, telL me. I'll correct you if it's based on a misunderstanding, but I'm seriously all ears. This situation needs to be resolved, for daughter's sake.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Keenly

[wizer]

Such a helpful response.

 

What exactly is it that I need to change?

 

You don't have to change anything, if you want conflict with her until your children are emancipated.

 

If you want to coexist peacefully and have more cooperation, then learn to be more flexible, and don't cause problems where there aren't any.

 

When she asked you to switch the schedule, remind her that normally you'll be happy to do so, but this time around you can't, give her a brief reason why so she doesn't think you're intentionally being a prick, and watch how things get better with your improved attitude.

 

Or not.

 

What I am doing is keeping a close eye and ear out for anything that implies parental alienation. Going straight to court immediately if I ever see any of that.

 

You're worried about parental alienation, you're ready to drag her ass to court if she shows any of it. Well know this my friend, the courts are ill equipped to do anything about PA, your best best is to avoid it entirely and you do that by minimizing conflict and maximizing cooperation.

 

Stop shooting yourself in the foot.

Edited July 24, 2015 by wizer

[BlueIris]

Read though people's suggestions.

 

Personally I think the elephant in the living room is your own investment in being at war, the victim, etc. This kind of stuff doesn't matter one whit to our kids. This is our own internal crap that we do to ourselves.

 

Try to be more objective about why the mom might be resentful, angry or distrustful of you. I mean, you didn't parent at first. She was alone. It's not a contest; it's trying to understand.

 

I don't know... maybe think about your resentment toward your own parents. If you had an ideal, why didn't you make that ideal happen? Maybe think about why you and your daughter's mom didn't get married, get stable and then have kids. There were reasons, probably some good reasons. Maybe some you regret and would do differently.

 

Try your darnedest to be more objective and pull a win out instead of deciding that conflict and hardship are inevitable.

 

Focus on your parenting. Did you think about potty training before she brought it up? If you didn't, then resolve to be more attuned and parental.

 

There are things you can do to take the focus off your ex and onto your daughter and your home together.

 

And then, yes, approach her about changing parenting time. But I just don't think it's a good idea to do that until you're a solid as a parent yourself. It'll be very difficult for all involved until then. If you do want to go to court, learn about the prerequisite of "change of circumstances," how a judge might view you and the mom in the "best interests" factors. If there's something you're not great at yet in that list, improve it. They're actually helpful guidelines for parenting and co-parenting.

 

There's lots you can do and burying the hatchet is one of them.

[Keenly]

You don't have to change anything, if you want conflict with her until your children are emancipated.

 

If you want to coexist peacefully and have more cooperation, then learn to be more flexible, and don't cause problems where there aren't any.

 

When she asked you to switch the schedule, remind her that normally you'll be happy to do so, but this time around you can't, give her a brief reason why so she doesn't think you're intentionally being a prick, and watch how things get better with your improved attitude.

 

Or not.

 

You're worried about parental alienation, you're ready to drag her ass to court if she shows any of it. Well know this my friend, the courts are ill equipped to do anything about PA, your best best is to avoid it entirely and you do that by minimizing conflict and maximizing cooperation.

 

Stop shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Again, I have to correct you. As I said before, any interactions I make with her are always positive / neutral on my end. I usually comply with last minute changes, as they don't bother me when they don't interfere with anything I have going on of any importance.

 

I never am negative with her, that's the truth. I'm not a person of conflict and I must have been born in Japan because respect is a big deal to me. She might be a pain in the ass sometimes but I do respect her a great deal because of who she is to my little girl.

 

I'd like your opinion on a hypothetical.

 

 

The next time she asks last minute for a change, and it's a change i am not able to accommodate, and I send the following

 

" sorry, I won't be able to change that date. There is a legal seminar downtown and my attendance is required for work "

 

And I get back "you're such a piece of **** father " should I just accept that?

 

I mean I probably could Do that. It's hard though. Frustrating when you care so much about something and doing it the right way, but then you just get told it's meaningless.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Keenly