1 in 5 residents are cheaters? - How is this possible?

[loveflower]

It's all over the news that one fifth of the residents of this capital city are on Ashley Madison.

 

so when you deduct the very old and very young...is that means every married person cheats?

 

maybe it's just a totally made-up statistic?

 

damn, I hardly see any handsome men here. who are they cheating with? ugly people cheating with ugly people? mind-boggling... I hardly see anybody kiss and make out in public here. when I look at people on the streets I don't see any sign in them that indicate anything that they are cheaters. and now this?

 

I can't fathom this.........

 

should this be reason enough to totally lose faith in human decency?

[No Limit]

Unless every single human being on earth is questioned (and perhaps tortured to make sure they don't lie) and the result is that everyone has cheated, it proves that there are faithful people out there. And they do exist, even if they are few in number.

 

If your only interest is the big picture, it has never looked good, there will always be a risk and the overall odds will never be pro-faithfulness.

Sebastian Brant for example lived nearly 500 years ago and wrote that anyone who doesn't marry for money is setting himself/herself up for "nothing but squabble, sorrow, bitterness, pain."

[carhill]

IMO, that number (1 in 5) is pretty optimistic, if our entire lives are to be examined and we include infidelity, adultery and cheating all in the same category. Reflect on that. Only 20%?

 

As suggested, it also presumes survey takers are mind-readers and can accurately assess each subject for the truth.

 

From my generation, even back when marriage was supposedly sacrosanct, affairs weren't uncommon and often were the topics of movies, even with the general 'now you know this is bad and wrong' message being delivered.

 

People have been doing what they do since pair bonding began.

[loveflower]

so those single men I have 'known' for a few years...what have they been doing in all these years in this sin city?

[Robert Z]

It's all over the news that one fifth of the residents of this capital city are on Ashley Madison.

 

so when you deduct the very old and very young...is that means every married person cheats?

 

maybe it's just a totally made-up statistic?

 

damn, I hardly see any handsome men here. who are they cheating with? ugly people cheating with ugly people? mind-boggling... I hardly see anybody kiss and make out in public here. when I look at people on the streets I don't see any sign in them that indicate anything that they are cheaters. and now this?

 

I can't fathom this.........

 

should this be reason enough to totally lose faith in human decency?

 

It shows that the institution of marriage generally doesn't work. You can make this about decency, but with the horrid track record of marriage I don't think that is reasonable. It says more about marriage being a miserable failure than anything.

 

You are talking about Ottawa Canada and it suggest that on the average there is one cheating person in every marriage.

 

People could be "decent" and miserable. People could live up to some standard even if they hate their life. Is that your vision for society? Or would you prefer broken families? The people cheating are clearly trying to preserve something, and probably the home life for their kids.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Robert Z

[Eggplant]

IMO, that number (1 in 5) is pretty optimistic, if our entire lives are to be examined and we include infidelity, adultery and cheating all in the same category. Reflect on that. Only 20%?

 

As suggested, it also presumes survey takers are mind-readers and can accurately assess each subject for the truth.

 

From my generation, even back when marriage was supposedly sacrosanct, affairs weren't uncommon and often were the topics of movies, even with the general 'now you know this is bad and wrong' message being delivered.

 

People have been doing what they do since pair bonding began.

No -- the OP didn't say 20% of people were unfaithful. It said 20% were on Ashley Madison. The people who are on Ashley Madison are a (probably small) subset of all the people who are cheating.

 

 

By the way, I don't believe that stat.

[Robert Z]

No -- the OP didn't say 20% of people were unfaithful. It said 20% were on Ashley Madison. The people who are on Ashley Madison are a (probably small) subset of all the people who are cheating.

 

By the way, I don't believe that stat.

 

Why would you not believe it. You have to give a credit card tied to your address. It is pretty simple.

 

 

The fact they are on a cheater site pretty much tells you how they feel about their marriage. And yes, this is likely only a small subset of the people who are actually cheating.

[preraph]

I didn't find it in a google search. I'd believe the 1 in 5 being cheaters, but what I don't think I believe is 1 in 5 do it at Ashley Madison. That would mean there's a whole lot more cheaters out there NOt on Ashley Madison.

[pie2]

I'm not entirely sure how Ashley Madison works, but if a single man wanted to find a woman to have relatively unattached sex with, maybe he could find her on a site like Ashley Madison? Is there proof that everyone on the site is married?

 

Though, I also agree that the percentage of people who have been unfaithful (at some point in their marriage) is much higher than 20%. Much higher.

[Arieswoman]

"I can prove anything by statistics except the truth.

 

George Canning"

 

 

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

Benjamin Disraeli"

 

 

"An unsophisticated forecaster uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than for illumination.

 

Andrew Lang"

[TaraMaiden2]

When asked, 68% of people said they didn't believe in statistics, while 53% said they did.

 

16% were undecided.

 

[Eggplant]

Why would you not believe it. You have to give a credit card tied to your address. It is pretty simple.

 

 

The fact they are on a cheater site pretty much tells you how they feel about their marriage. And yes, this is likely only a small subset of the people who are actually cheating.

If there's a reputable source, I'll consider it.

 

 

But keep in perspective, 20% of American adults don't use the internet. 50% of Americans use Facebook. More than 50% of American adults are single.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Eggplant

[dreamingoftigers]

Couple things to point out about Ottawa:

 

 

1. It is out capital city. This means we have a ton of diplomatic and government contract posts there. It further means that many of those posting up as being in Ottawa doesn't make them PERMANENT RESIDENTS. It makes them in town for a bit. In general.

 

 

2. Plenty of metro area around Ottawa and low-density urban sprawl that isn't "technically" part of Ottawa, such as Smiths Falls, Arnprior etc. that would simply post as "Ottawa" especially if they want to improve their odds on cheating. Including Hull, which is directly across the river from Ottawa. So there is a much larger population area that would be the sample size. I would guess at least double.

[ascendotum]

No -- the OP didn't say 20% of people were unfaithful. It said 20% were on Ashley Madison. The people who are on Ashley Madison are a (probably small) subset of all the people who are cheating.

 

By the way, I don't believe that stat.

 

Yeh that's right. The real figure would be a lot worse. I don't know if I would use AM (if I had the inclination to cheat), but maybe its different from normal site and you don't have to show your photo or you can mask it and still be a viable prospect. In the meantime while they think about releasing the hacked details of users, it would be interesting to see statistics on their user base.

1 in 5 is a really crappy stat for Ottowa's residents.

[madjac74]

 

damn, I hardly see any handsome men here. who are they cheating with? ugly people cheating with ugly people? mind-boggling... I hardly see anybody kiss and make out in public here. when I look at people on the streets I don't see any sign in them that indicate anything that they are cheaters. and now this?

 

I can't fathom this.........

 

 

I don't fathom this either! Did you really follow your reasoning here?? You see people on the streets but there is no sign that they are cheaters??? I thought all cheaters wore a scarlet letter! I mean some people live with and are often married to a cheater! How do they not see the obvious signs??!!

[TaraMaiden2]

damn, I hardly see any handsome men here. who are they cheating with? ugly people cheating with ugly people? mind-boggling... I hardly see anybody kiss and make out in public here. when I look at people on the streets I don't see any sign in them that indicate anything that they are cheaters. and now this?

 

I can totally equate.

A colleague and I, half-jokingly, were looking at all the people passing through our store.

And we came up with 4 categories:

Old, Ugly, fat and foreign.

 

Initially we were just really kidding. I'm not sure what prompted it, or why we picked those 4 categories, but as time wore on during the day, we realised that virtually everyone - and I DO mean everyone - fell into one - or more - of those categories.

 

For instance, our advertising banners, brochures, catalogue pictures and photos, all depict young, slim, vibrant, smiling 'laughing' 32 - 38-year-olds.

 

But get this: the average age of shoppers who frequent our store, is 57. By far the vast majority of those who shop with us are just pre- or post-retirement.

In 2017, 47% of the UK population will be over 47.

See where the future lies?

 

But you know what attracts ugly people?

Ugly people. Who are we to say ugly people cheating with ugly people is 'mind-boggling'?

Actually it's fundamental logic. Of course they do.

 

People are attracted to that which is familiar.

And to be brutally honest, it's a question of personal perception.

 

I think Donald Sutherland is one of the sexiest guys I have seen.

My colleague thinks I'm nuts. She prefers Tommy Lee Jones.

 

people go for people they 'know'.

So I'm quitting my stupid game with my colleague because when push comes to shove, these people all have one thing in common:

 

They're humans.

And like every human, they have a right to be understood, appreciated and loved.

And just like young, beautiful slim and native people, old, ugly fat and foreign have a right to that.

 

I'm not saying cheating is 'right'. I never will.

But many cheaters end up happily with their APs.

 

And if they're in love, then they're in love, no matter what they look like.

[elaine567]

I can totally equate.

A colleague and I, half-jokingly, were looking at all the people passing through our store.

And we came up with 4 categories:

Old, Ugly, fat and foreign.

 

Initially we were just really kidding. I'm not sure what prompted it, or why we picked those 4 categories, but as time wore on during the day, we realised that virtually everyone - and I DO mean everyone - fell into one - or more - of those categories.

 

I agree, the media likes to portray the population as young, fit and beautiful, but IRL older people are very common and even the young can be unfit and ugly with it.

Rarely do I see any adult, who if I was to be brutally honest would I deem truly "young, fit and beautiful".

 

So far from cheaters being smokin' hot, they are just the same folk we see on the street every day.

 

Of course baby boomers are the ones with the most money, so that maybe explains the demographic visiting your store.

[jen1447]

Why would you not believe it. You have to give a credit card tied to your address. It is pretty simple.

 

Just fyi, you can't really abstract an address from a credit card account alone. Assuming all the user provides is a name and a card/#, your address isn't automatically known to the provider as well. You'd have to provide it to them independently. Does AM require that, and what would stop users from supplying false info? (Makes me wonder about Paypal too, which offers another layer of anonymity.)

 

Online retailers that ship goods would know your address since you'd give it to them for shipment. If only services were provided, there'd be no need to supply addresses, unless again AM has some specific business policy requiring that.

[Robert Z]

Just fyi, you can't really abstract an address from a credit card account alone. Assuming all the user provides is a name and a card/#, your address isn't automatically known to the provider as well.

 

In order to use a credit card the billing address has to be provided. And it would be a crime to give a false address. Most companies compare the zip code to the billing address associated with the card. Even gas pumps generally require a zip code for comparison. And Paypal also requires a legal billing address.

 

Either way, the popularity of the site speaks for itself.

 

What I find interesting is that people lament the loss of decency instead of worrying about why so many married people feel the desire to cheat. Again, no matter the situation in Ottawa, the stats speak for themselves. Marriage is not making people happy. But instead of blaming the institution, people sit back and judge others who are trying to find some happiness.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Robert Z

[loveflower]

I

What I find interesting is that people lament the loss of decency instead of worrying about why so many married people feel the desire to cheat. Again, no matter the situation in Ottawa, the stats speak for themselves. Marriage is not making people happy. But instead of blaming the institution, people sit back and judge others who are trying to find some happiness.

 

Then why did you and the likes got married? nobody force you to get married, right?

 

mind-boggling...........................

[jen1447]

In order to use a credit card the billing address has to be provided. And it would be a crime to give a false address. Most companies compare the zip code to the billing address associated with the card. Even gas pumps generally require a zip code for comparison. And Paypal also requires a legal billing address.

 

No it doesn't. My Netflix for example has my CC and name info, no address. If you use a CC at a brick and mortar store, they don't require you register and provide a home address. Even the gas pump thing is irregular and a zip code does not an address make.

 

Paypal knowing your address would be like your CC company knowing your address, not a vendor.

 

But maybe AM requires zip codes with registration ....that would be enough to determine its Ottawa membership.

[William]

Folks, if you want to discuss the specifics of the Ashley Madison site hack, like what personal information they collect and aspects of their database management, we have a thread for that:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/off-topic/water-cooler/538895-ashley-madison-hacked

 

If you wish to debate the premise forwarded by the thread starter based on their analysis of that current event, that 1 in 5 residents are cheaters, this is the thread for that. Since this is posted in our general relationship forum, our directive is to focus on the relationship aspects, like the cultural dynamics and mores of the Ottawa residents, as one example.

 

What we don't want is two threads running on a similar topic and, also, a proliferation of threads on topics which have nothing to do with member's personal interpersonal relationships, since such relationships are the primary directive of this forum, as spelled out by its owner.

 

Sure, a free for all would be fun but this is a private moderated forum and, well, that's how it goes. Thanks!

[loveflower]

If you wish to debate the premise forwarded by the thread starter based on their analysis of that current event, that 1 in 5 residents are cheaters, this is the thread for that. Since this is posted in our general relationship forum, our directive is to focus on the relationship aspects, like the cultural dynamics and mores of the Ottawa residents, as one example.

 

Yes, thank you for getting my concerns.

 

Reading news like that makes me quite depressed and feeling hopeless. in a environment like that, is it nearly impossible for find a decent opposite sex to be with, let alone to find someone to marry?

 

I am single, so it's not like that I worry about a cheating spouse. but I do want to be with a good person, both physically and mentally. I needed to be mentally attracted to that person as well. I think I am heart and soul kind of person.

 

Do cheating people have a soul and a heart? I am not judging. I am just wondering. I just want to know.

 

It's not like I really care about other people's business. I am just wondering what should I do and expect in such environment? so, I indeed came from other planet and have been living under a rock.

 

guess it's time for me to move out...maybe that will be better?

[xxoo]

I don't believe that Ashley Madison membership = cheater. Do they actually verify marital status? I think it would be a tempting site for single men to join, looking for easy sex with desperate housewives.

 

Also, it would be very tempting for someone who suspects their spouse of cheating to join and keep an eye out for anything suspicious.

 

I think those two factors could explain at least some of the numbers.

[elaine567]

 

Also, it would be very tempting for someone who suspects their spouse of cheating to join and keep an eye out for anything suspicious.

 

Her: (in an accusatory fashion) You have an Ashley Madison account?

Him: I was just checking up on you, in case you were cheating on me, darling.

Her: Oh, OK dear.

Edited July 26, 2015 by elaine567