What I deserve is insults, which I will accept, but I'm also asking for advice...

[Donburi]

Well, just like everyone else here, I have my terrible story. And just like everyone elses, its pretty complicated, but I'll try to make it simple as I possibly can.

 

 

I've been dating this wonderful guy for a little over than 3 years now. I was 17 when I met him, he was 20. I know thats pretty young but I feel as if we're both somewhat mature people. We both love eachother very much, we have plans for the future together, moving to another country, and the idea of marriage, even though we both know we're both too young to go into that topic too deeply, has been brought up many times. When we were both done with getting our degree, we were going to move to Japan next spring.

 

That is...until I f**ked everything up...

 

 

I've never had many friends. In fact, I only had one friend when I met my bf (we'll call him J.) And I'm not even friends with her anymore due to her drastic change in her life style (drugs, drinking, etc.) So, I basically, all I had was him. I know I've been questioned about how I may only be with him due to the fact that I'm lonely, dependent or whatever you may call it, but i know thats not the case. I know I could easily get friends if I wanted, but I actually prefer only being close with a few. Thats just how I am. He has many many friends (mostly males) and has dated enough girls to know how things work and also has expressed to me how I'm the best girl he's ever met and how he has no desire to ever date anyone else. I was the one for him, and vice versa.

 

 

After a year and a half, he didn't seem to try as hard to please me, which overall makes sense, thats just what happens when you start to feel comfortable with eachother, you know you love eachother w/o having to go to crazy measures to show it. However, I didn't understand this at the time, since I only had one serious relationship before him. I started to nag and pick fights about nothing. So, about a year ago, he took a break from me. I was heart broken. I did my fair share of pleading and begging, and he eventually took me back. Ever since then, I have learned how to control myself, and whenever something he did upset me, I would talk to him calmly about it instead of sulking and yelling. I really believed I matured.

 

 

A few months ago, I started to warm up more to other people. I wanted more friends. Its always kind of been an issue to J that I didn't have other friends which resulted in me clinging to him alot. He loved me, but he sometimes needed time away from me. Completely understandable. So I made it an effort to make friends. I became close to one of his friends, and we suprisingly had alot in common. I was so happy that I finally felt comfortable being around someone other than J. We hung out alot, and its always been innocent. But when I look back at it now, I noticed he complimented me way more than he needed to, but being a low self esteem kinda gal that I am, I never really wondered or took it seriously. But in a way, I was addicted to it. Addicted because I was being told nice things and addicted because J noticed this and started to pay attention to me more. He was being the J that I first met.

 

 

So, we'll call this friend M. I would talk to M alot about my relationship with J. It felt good to talk to someone about it. We mostly always talked about J, talked about how I felt neglected sometimes, talked about what I should do to be a better partner, etc... And like I said before, at the time I didn't notice it but when I look back now, he didn't seem very encouraging of my relationship with J. When I would bring up an old flame of J's he would say how J seemed to be more "in love" with her than with me, but then he would always say not to take him seriously, that was just his opinions. So, it was a bunch of little things, but it sure got to my head.

 

 

Almost two weeks ago, I find out that M has strong feelings for me. And I realize, I like him too. I dunno if its because he always paid attention to me and complimented me, or if we were just compatible enough, but there were definite feelings there. I felt guilty, so I asked J for a break, just a small one. I needed time to think about things, not to consider which guy to be with, but just to clear my head. It felt wrong to be with J and have feelings with someone else. But of course, when you continue to read the rest, you are going to think I am a fool for saying that...

 

 

Last Sunday, J, M and I were at J's house. M and I just came back from a restaurant ( I called J and invited him but he was napping). J wasn't in the best mood, and I understood why. He wanted us (just us two) to go iceskating that day but instead I wanted to hang out with a group of people. I still don't know why to this day I refused his date. Maybe I just wasn't in the mood to be alone with him or the fact that he wasn't respecting my wish to be on a break by acting like we were still dating, I don't know! Either way, I basically ditched him for M.

M and I were talking in another bedroom alone, while J was in his room with another buddy. Suddenly I heard J's door slam shut and I went to check. He had locked us out. After knocking several times, J's friend opened it for me. I peered inside asking J why he locked it and he basically ignored me. Upset, I left and went back to the room with M. I told him what happened and he comforted me.

It was dark in the room and I was laying down on my back. I still can't even remember how it exactly happened, but he leaned over me and started to touch me...down there. Since at the time I felt attracted to him, part of me wanted it. J and I, even before we took our break, hadn't done any phsyical stuff in quite a while so my hormones were raging. I told M to stop several times, but I wasn't trying as hard as I should have. I could have called for J but I didn't. Like I said, part of me wanted it, and I gave in. (he was rubbing me down there, we didn't have sex, kiss, or anything else.) Several moments later, J walked in the room to see the whole thing.

 

 

J is completely devestated. One of his best friends and his gf betrayed him. Right now, his world is falling apart. I don't know what to do.

 

We're broken up right now, but we're still talking to eachother, which is probably more than I deserve. All J can say right now is he doesn't know what to do. Right now, he says he needs time. I told him I would do anything he needs, if he needed to talk, I'll talk, and if the sight of me disgusts him, then I'll leave as soon as I can. I'm surprised that there are times when it seems like he wants to talk to me.

 

Right now, nothing is set in stone. I don't know if we may get back together someday or if this is it. I know for a fact J would tell me if he already decided on anything, good or bad. He is a very good guy with a good heart, not the revengeful type at all. I asked him if it was dumb of me to be hopeful, and he said no, there is nothing wrong with having hope.

 

 

I feel like ****. I don't know what to do. I never EVER thought I could be capable of doing something like that, but I'm sure all cheaters say that. I'm not gonna pull a Ross and Rachael and say "We were on a break!" because in my mind, that is no excuse. I'm devestated.

 

 

It seems like most people here believe that if you love someone you wouldn't do something like this, and I still agree. But I know for a fact I still love J with all of my heart. And I know he loves me very much, or used to anyway...one thing that he said that tore me up inside was that his heart did a 180...and that things could never be the same... It hurts me even more to know that I'm the cause of that.

 

So, I need your advice. What can I do to show him how much I care? Right now he must be doubting alot of things but I want him to know that he shouldn't question my love for him. He can question how weak and stupid I am, but not my love.

I know I earned all the insults you want to give and are probably going to give, but please, with your harsh but honest words please give me some advice on what I should do...

 

 

I guess I should add that he believes me when I say I would never do that again, and that he knows I'm a good person. He also said he would never find someone like me..which was a relief to hear... I've heard the saying "once a cheater always a cheater" but that can't always be true...please, you must know some people who have changed...

 

 

Geez this was ridiculously long, and I understand if you didn't read all of it or just skipped it. But it felt kinda good to write about it, so I have that at least if no one responds to it. And if you did read it, I really appreciate it, thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[SexKitten]

just to have a bit more clarification...why did he slam the door and lock you out? because you were alone in a bedroom with his friend? or was it something else?

 

also, i think it wouldn't be quite as difficult if it wasn't his own friend...you're right in saying "you were on a break" because you were. but i think the fact that it's his friend AND he had to walk in and see it didn't help matters very much.

 

the best thing to do is give him what he asks for...time. and keep in mind that your boyfriend isn't exactly what giving you what you want either.

 

very often, people get so caught up in getting someone back that they ignore why the problem happened and if the relationship is working and worth fighting for.

 

good luck, really.

 

let us know what happens.

[Marshbear]

What about M? I thought you have feelings for him. Do you feel you deserve to stick with J because you have dated for so long? Things change. People change. Maybe you and J have changed and you both need to explore other people to really see where you're at. If you still want J then you will have to take things slow and see if he is willing to come back to you. If you decide you like M then you really don't have a problem, except maybe some guilt over J. The choice is yours.

[Grinning Maniac]

Donburi, I'll be frank...You've commited one of the biggest dating no-no's in existance and I think you need to take a time-out from dating before you screw up anyone else's life. That's all I've got for you, really. The rest of this is just a rant to the group. Respond if you wish though.

 

Ok Loveshack...why do women do this? Can someone please tell me? When you feel like you need more friends, why don't you just go to the friggin arcade and make a few? Why be so lazy and dim-witted as to think you can just make best friends with your boyfriend's....best...friend. Surely you have to see that they can't be "best friend" to both of you. You can't play both sides of a couple. Someone's going to get screwed over. Loyalty ring a bell? I've never understood this. It always sounded like a REALLY bad idea to ME. Don't you ask yourself what might happen to that friendship if you have a very ugly breakup with the boyfriend?

 

If he's a loyal friend to your boyfriend, he'll probably wash his hands of you, in the event of you hurting his best friend. They've known each other longer.

 

If you end up luring your bf's friend away to satisfy your own...um...needs, you're giving your bf absolutely no shoulder to lean on after the break up. That's just cold. Why would you do something like that? Don't even say that you didn't think of that possibility all along. There's no way you can miss something that obvious.

 

Here's a personal example. By choice, I don't socialize much. Schmoozing with large groups of people doesn't interest me. I could probably count my friends on one hand. It's not that I'm nervous around people or anything like that. I'm great with people. I just enjoy having some degree of solitude. I've always been that way and I really have no complaints. However, my last girlfriend loved socializing with people. I never had an issue with it. After we broke up, she mentioned that my lack of what she considered a "normal" social life, really bothered her at times. She also had thought that she might meet some really interesting people through me, since I was such a cool guy.

 

I was flattered...but I couldn't help but wonder, why would she hope to gain social contacts from a lover? Relationships end all the time. They're temporary situations and it's bad "when worlds collide", to steal from Seinfeld. Regardless of who ends the relationship, I don't want to be forced to see you all the time just because you've latched onto a friend of mine like a barnacle. I CERTAINLY don't want to hear someday that you've been boning someone I've known since grade school... That's just ****ed up. Just find your own damn friends. Is that so hard?

 

I guess what I want to know is...WHY DO YOU BROADS DO THIS?

[Cecelius]

There's probably no need for strong rebukes, and frankly, you were "on a break." On the other hand, you showed your then-ex b/f that your level of self esteem requires attention from other men to make you feel good. Most mature men recognize this in younger girls, and assume its an aspect of being young.

 

Unless your b/f is a drama king or a sucker for punishment, you probably lost a lot of luster with him on that one (needy, young, etc., = not that attractive).

 

Add to that the picture of his pal hooking up with his ex g/f? No chance. He's too grossed out.

[tokyo]

Donburi, I'm not sure what you can do, but I think you need to communicate more. Your boyfriend sounds like a really nice person and he might get over it one day. The most important thing is to keep the communication line open. You made mistakes that indicate a lack of experience and a big insecurity, but also that in your relationship with your boyfriend things were not working that well either. If you had felt neglected you should have talked with him. I've done this mistake, too. I got upset instead of talking about my problems and it didn't solve anything. It's also important that you boyfriend can talk with you about these things. People tend to bottle their pain up and one day they walk away. If he talks about it with you, it will make it easier for him to forgive you if he's willing to. Be patient.

 

Good luck

[Grinning Maniac]

Dating friends of a former lover is a common thing, yeah. But is there any point to it? Does the good outweigh the harm? All I asked what sense it made to try playing that card (bf-friend-friend-lover-etc) or why it would even seem like a good idea.

 

I think she should take this as a lesson learned and just move on. Yes, they were on a "break", but it seems like this would be a very awkward situation to try and recover from, regardless. Especially over a relationship in which she didn't seem entirely happy in the first place. In my opinion the best thing for her to do would be to withdraw from both of them. Few things suck worse than friendships destroyed over poontang.

 

Let it be.

[EnigmaXOXO]

why would she hope to gain social contacts from a lover? Relationships end all the time. They're temporary situations and it's bad "when worlds collide", to steal from Seinfeld. Regardless of who ends the relationship, I don't want to be forced to see you all the time just because you've latched onto a friend of mine like a barnacle.

 

Actually, GM has made a darn good point!

[RecordProducer]

Well you WERE on a break! You can't ignore that. And you wanted the break in order to decide which guy you want (although you say it's not that) and it's completely okay. It's okay to NOT be in a relationship when you desire someone else.

So I assume you subconsciously wanted to try things with M while on a break. If M were good enough, you might have dumped J for him. But the problem was that M showed his real face - he only wanted you for sex. He didn't even kiss you, he only rubbed your vagina. And he did it in his friend's apartment.

Everything would probably be okay if J never found about it, but he did.

So basically you were on a break and you're not responsible for his "best friend's" actions, but only for yours.

As long as you cry and whine, J will have no respect for you. Don't call him and if he calls you, be cheerful as if nothing happened. If he can forgive you then okay. If not, he's free to get out of your life. You'll live.

You've said enough to him and the more you humiliate yourself the more he will hate you for what you've done.

Tell him "I see that you can't get over it so there is no point in getting back together. And even if we do, you'll insult me until the relationship falls apart."

If he loves you, he will be afraid to lose you. He'll try to show you that he has forgiven you and most likely won't mention the thing too often.

See, the more to respect yourself even when you're not right the more other people will respect you. Self-esteem and emotional independence are very important. Don't let J break you.

[mental_traveller]

I think you basically have to suck it up. Let him make the moves, don't pester or cajole him into getting back with you. He has to get over it before he is ready to return. Or he might not want to, personally I wouldn't if I were in his shoes.

 

Learn your lesson, and in future if you break off, make it CLEAR you have finished and make it CLEAR you might fool around with other guys. At least then the guy knows to expect it, instead of being surprised. Secondly, DON'T go with friends of your ex boyfriend unless you are both way over the relationship (i.e. you've finished off for 6 months or longer). Third, if you go with another guy, don't do it in your ex's apartment, and especially not there when he's in the room next door! How stupid is that? That shows a real lack of consideration and plain disrespect.

 

RecordProducer - if your bf split with you on a trial separation, how would you like it if he made out with one of your best friends, in your own apartment, while you were in the room next door and then had to walk in on them? Are you saying you'd be cool with that?

[Sal Paradise]

You screwed up big time. The chances of him getting past this are pretty slim. And to be honest you don't deserve his forgiveness. Yeah technically you were on a break but thats no excuse to mess around with one of his best friends while he's in the next room. How cold hearted can ya get? You say you love this guy, how could you love him and do this to him?

 

You not only robbed him of his love for you, you robbed him of one of his friends. Everytime he looks at you he'll think of what you did with his friend.

 

Personally I'd never forgive you and wouldn't even consider giving you another chance. But some guys are weak so maybe he will.

 

Poor guy.

[Donburi]

I know that I don't deserve his forgiveness...but I still can't help but fight for us, as questionable as that sounds...He knows I made a HUGE mistake, and believes me when I say nothing like this would ever happen again. He knows deep down inside I'm a good person, that I just need to work on my insecurities and low self-esteem. I'm so thankful and incredibly lucky...

 

He doesn't know what is going to happen with us, though. He doesn't know if its over for good or if we'll get back together again. He needs time to think, time to heal. He said us being friends is going to be the worst case scenario, so that was a relief to hear. Two days ago he said it would be best for us to not communicate for a while, and while that is the last thing I wanna do, I'm not gonna argue, the ball is in his court. He is going to a video game convention next week, and two weeks after that, he is going to visit Japan for three weeks. He says we'll talk again after all that, and that we'll just write emails every once 'n awhile til then.

So, I basically have to wait two months. I know its going to be super hard, we both cried alot two days ago...but this is something I have to do. In a way the pain almost feels good because I know I need some kind of punishment, a consequence. Then maybe my slate can be clean again...

 

 

I know everyone here says this but I truly feel that we are perfect for eachother ( I know, with what I did, thats questionable...but just because I'm a dumb weak human that doesn't mean I don't love him) In a way, he still feels the same way. He said he will never find someone like me. We have almost everything in common, from humor to hobbies to our goals in life. He even said if we remain friends he'd still want to go to Japan together. How in the world did I find such a wonderful forgiving guy?

 

 

So, to me, the chances are looking ok. Well, maybe not ok, but there is definetely some hope, no matter how small it is. One time I told him I felt like it was hopeless and he said, "well, I don't know what to tell you right now, but I don't want you to lose hope..." Thats been stuck in my head. He is a very sweet guy, but he is honest, too. If he knew he didn't want to be with me ever again, he would have told me. But then he'll say things like "things will never be the same" or "I view you in a different light.." So, I'm not really sure what to think...of course, I totally understand why he would feel that way...

 

 

So, I guess I was wondering, with most people in this situation, would time help or not? Do you think with time he'll miss us or that he will realize how stupid I was and that I don't deserve his forgiveness?? I guess it depends on the person...

We've been dating for three years so I know he can't just throw away his feelings for me, he said that himself. All his friends are trying to make him cut off ties with me, but he isn't. These friends are kinda questionable though, back when things were perfect they would try to start **** and mess things up, like telling me how J doesn't love me and vice versa...so I question the friends he has. These "friends" are also currently starting rumors that me and M being physical has happened more than once...wtf?? J doesn't believe that, either but still...it hurts.

 

I guess thats what karma is all about though, right?

[ReluctantRomeo]

For the record, I once forgave a girl who did something similar to me. It didn't happen instantly, but I got there in the end. It doesn't have to be the end of the relationship. He may be hurt, but given time to calm down and a duly penitent attitude from you, he may well get past it. We all make mistakes.

 

Give him time. Give him space. It sounds like you're admitting your mistake and willingness to work on it - keep signalling this when *he* brings the issue up. But don't keep harping on about it yourself.

[Donburi]

thanks RRomeo, that was reassuring to hear that is doesn't have to be the end.

So, you suggest give him time, right? He said we shouldn't talk or hang out til he gets back from Japan. For him to suggest that, do you think that means he wants to work things out? Or maybe he is just trying to avoid me and hoping that I will forget about all this with time? ( actually, thats not true because I already asked that . I told him "I'll wait as long as you need, and don't you think that I'm gonna move on or anything! I'm stubborn" and he just laughed and said don't worry.) Yeah, leave it up to my paranoid mind to think of crazy things.

 

I keep wanting to call him, its so hard to not hear from him...but I shouldn't. That would look bad...right? If I respect his wishes and leave him alone for now, would that show him I'm serious?

 

Gah! I hate how uncertain I am of things...this is the prob he wanted me to work on, too...

[Sal Paradise]

Originally posted by Donburi

thanks RRomeo, that was reassuring to hear that is doesn't have to be the end.

So, you suggest give him time, right? He said we shouldn't talk or hang out til he gets back from Japan. For him to suggest that, do you think that means he wants to work things out? Or maybe he is just trying to avoid me and hoping that I will forget about all this with time? ( actually, thats not true because I already asked that . I told him "I'll wait as long as you need, and don't you think that I'm gonna move on or anything! I'm stubborn" and he just laughed and said don't worry.) Yeah, leave it up to my paranoid mind to think of crazy things.

 

I keep wanting to call him, its so hard to not hear from him...but I shouldn't. That would look bad...right? If I respect his wishes and leave him alone for now, would that show him I'm serious?

 

Gah! I hate how uncertain I am of things...this is the prob he wanted me to work on, too...

 

Being a little uncertain is nothing compared to the hell you've put him through.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Originally posted by Donburi

thanks RRomeo, that was reassuring to hear that is doesn't have to be the end.

 

My pleasure. I'm glad to be able to help.

 

So, you suggest give him time, right? ... do you think that means he wants to work things out?

 

Hmmm. My experience in this matter is limited, but my gut says it could go either way right now. I wish I could offer you a more solid hope, but there it is. He doesn't want to work it through by talking to you, but on the other hand he isn't outright rejecting you. I think he is taking the time to process the issue and decide what he is gonna do. I doubt he is hoping you'll forget him... but he may well be trying to prove a point or teach you a lesson.

 

I keep wanting to call him, its so hard to not hear from him...but I shouldn't. That would look bad...right? If I respect his wishes and leave him alone for now, would that show him I'm serious?

 

I don't know if it would show how serious you are, but I think respecting his wishes and not calling is your only option right now. Don't call him straight away when he gets back from Japan either.

 

There is a christian proverb which I think would be very helpful in your attitude in the coming weeks - hate the sin, love the sinner. There is no defence for what you did and you should admit this every time he brings it up (which may be frequently in the near future - he will need to work this through). And I think this is the line you are taking.

 

But there must be respect for you as a person. A good person who made a terrible mistake and is now asking for forgiveness and a chance to put it right. You should not demean yourself in other ways and neither should he. Nor should you let this one action define your relationship - let him be the one to bring this issue up, don't harp on about it, be ready to talk and do other things with him. While you are waiting for his response, get on with your life. And learn the lesson.