Husband just got fired for stealing

[applej4]

Damn Lois, don't pull any punches lol.

 

Pink, even IF an HR dept head told you something about what they will tell another prospective employer, you couldn't count on it. After all, they are made up of people and people lie. Rarely will someone look right at you and speak the truth if they think it will hurt you in any way. I'm not saying this is bad, it's what separates us from the animals, but regardless he would need to expect the worst.

 

Lois, it's interesting what you said about not disclosing a cause. It makes perfect sense and I suspect most larger companies will have a similar policy. It [kind of] opens the door to someone with a lack of ethics doing as they please if word gets out. Don't let anyone in your company know what you just told us!

 

kenmore, do you have a problem with Lois' posts? Why? And why the "lol"?...anyway, not disclosing a case isn't exactly a secret. Furthermore, sometimes past employers can give a not-so-good reference by using pregnant pauses and other such tactics which they can't be sued for. A potential employer often won’t bother to ask more questions or wonder what’s being hidden – they will just move on to the next application.

[applej4]

I'd have to wonder why a household with two professionals bringing in pretty decent salaries would STILL necessitate one of them having to supplement that income with stolen goods on ebay.

Good question.

Even more troubling is how you 'excuse' his rotten past abusive behavior by saying once you got a job and he was no longer blaming YOU for the financial situation at home, he's 'not abusive anymore.'

I agree.

[applej4]

not disclosing a case isn't exactly a secret.

correction in previous post above: "not disclosing a cause isn't exactly a secret" (cause, not case)

[Popsicle]

Would it be reasonable to give him a couple of days, as he asked, and then see what he does?

 

-A

 

Yes, I think it would be reasonable. The man is probably depressed and trying to recover from the shock and does need to get his bearings. It wouldn't hurt to give him a little time to THINK about what he did and how bad it is, since he was incapable of doing that while it was happening. If it doesn't kick in with him soon (and I think it will) that you two are in need of his financial help, then you will have a different problem to deal with. Honestly, I would give him up to a month.

[TaraMaiden2]

My Mother once said to me (and honestly, this IS true! )

 

"*TaraMaiden* the trouble with you..", (Trouble! Like it's a vice!) ..."Is that you believe there is Good in everyone...."

 

An she's right. I do. (Although I dispute the term 'trouble'...)

 

I was married for years to a man for whom I made every excuse in the book.

I truly disbelieved every negative thing people told me about him, because actually, I DID see the good in him.

He was an absolute charmer. He was funny, intelligent, attentive, and I felt very safe with him.

I didn't see his negative traits, because I was honestly deeply in love with him, and all the things I had to put up with were ok; they were part of who he was. And I married into that, so I thought "You makes your bed and you lies in it."

 

This is what I perceive is happening with Arabella, although I fervently pray, seeing PRECISELY the same pattern unfolding as happened with me, that she will not take quite as long as I did, to realise that actually, everyone else was right, and I was misguided, overly-appreciative, too forgiving and over-flexible.

 

There came a time when I realised enough was enough.

His behaviour was no longer acceptable, or excusable.

He was indeed, as others had perceived him to be, and my eyes had been clouded by my own distorted perception.

 

So I can see, and understand why Arabella is 'blocking' everyone's contributions, and seemingly ignoring all the warnings people are giving her.

Because in Arabella, I see myself, all those years ago.

 

(Curiously, 'Arabella' was the nickname my dear wonderful late British Grandma gave me... she loved the name, she loved me. So she tied the two together....)

 

Arabella, please: I know. I can see your loyalty.

I can see how you really want to believe the very best you can believe about him.

I know that you think "If only I can wait until *this* happens, everything will be ok, and he will change for the better."

"....If only I can wait until we <insert event here> I just know he will change, be a better person, mellow, love me more/the way I deserve/as I've always dreamt he would...."

 

Please know:

 

It's. Never. Going. To. Happen.

And over time, as you make things better and better for all of you, he will become more and more complacent - and let you.

Until you will suddenly realise that every good thing, every positive event, every great turnaround - will be good, positive and great, because you - and you alone - made it that way.

But he will take a great deal of credit, and assume that it's all happened because he wanted it to.

And just because YOU made it happen, it doesn't mean he wasn't predominantly instrumental.

 

I know.

I can see it.

 

Please, before you go on - tell me where I am wrong in my observations....

[Tobin]

I'd have to wonder why a household with two professionals bringing in pretty decent salaries would STILL necessitate one of them having to supplement that income with stolen goods on ebay.

 

Pfft. People steal for the thrill. You can never have enough money. Think about the news articles where celebrities are arrested for shoplifting small inexpensive items. Do you think they needed to do that because they couldn't afford them?

 

I sell old computer parts, household items, and model trains on Ebay, sometimes for only a few bucks, and I make a half a million bucks per year. Why do I do that? It's fun.

 

It has nothing to do with income or need.

[pink_sugar]

Pfft. People steal for the thrill. You can never have enough money. Think about the news articles where celebrities are arrested for shoplifting small inexpensive items. Do you think they needed to do that because they couldn't afford them?

 

I sell old computer parts, household items, and model trains on Ebay, sometimes for only a few bucks, and I make a half a million bucks per year. Why do I do that? It's fun.

 

It has nothing to do with income or need.

 

I agree, however, surely the OP's husband knew what he was doing was wrong and that there was a possibility he could get caught. Was $300 really worth jeopardizing his salary and reputation?

[applej4]

People steal for the thrill.

Not always - this is an overgeneralization. Many/most times people steal because they want or need the item and can't afford it, or because they want to sell it and get money. There aren't that many thrill-seeking or fun-seeking thieves.

[Ms. Faust]

Op already mentioned they are in debt, supposedly from her being a sahm, buy I suspect more likely that hubs (or both) don't know how to live within his means.

 

But honestly, it seems that many people who make a lot of money are in debt. I believe it has to do with material wealth and the high end lifestyle that one tries to live up to.

[applej4]

Op already mentioned they are in debt, supposedly from her being a sahm, buy I suspect more likely that hubs (or both) don't know how to live within his means.

 

But honestly, it seems that many people who make a lot of money are in debt. I believe it has to do with material wealth and the high end lifestyle that one tries to live up to.

 

OP has also said that her 'bitter ex bf' owes her $13,000. Didn't appear that she has made any progress towards trying to collect even though she has a written contract/promissory note.

[pink_sugar]

Op already mentioned they are in debt, supposedly from her being a sahm, buy I suspect more likely that hubs (or both) don't know how to live within his means.

 

But honestly, it seems that many people who make a lot of money are in debt. I believe it has to do with material wealth and the high end lifestyle that one tries to live up to.

 

Agreed. My husband's parents made 120k combined and they were in debt. When his stepfather lost his job, they had to pay off like 80k of credit card debt. It was amazing they had so much debt when they made decent money. But it was because of higher end standards of living. This is why it pays to still be frugal even when you make decent money...that way you're not underwater during a rainy day.

[applej4]

Agreed. My husband's parents made 120k combined and they were in debt. When his stepfather lost his job, they had to pay off like 80k of credit card debt. It was amazing they had so much debt when they made decent money. But it was because of higher end standards of living. This is why it pays to still be frugal even when you make decent money...that way you're not underwater during a rainy day.

 

If not frugal, at least sensible. 80k in cc debt is nuts unless you have 80k sitting around to pay it off at end of month before interest kicks in. Otherwise it's really stupid.Back to topic, doesn't appear OP or her husband are very financially savvy.

[kenmore]

kenmore, do you have a problem with Lois' posts? Why? And why the "lol"?...anyway, not disclosing a case isn't exactly a secret. Furthermore, sometimes past employers can give a not-so-good reference by using pregnant pauses and other such tactics which they can't be sued for. A potential employer often won’t bother to ask more questions or wonder what’s being hidden – they will just move on to the next application.

 

Other than the harshness of them, no I don't have a particular problem with her posts. The "lol" was there to express a feeling of lightheartedness because while I agree with what she's saying (for the most part) I felt the mood could use a little lightening. I felt it because I don't feel Arabella is "wrong" for her feelings for her husband, they are her feelings and she's entitled to have them. She shouldn't be "shamed" out of them.

 

I feel people should speak their minds and say their opinions but when it's said in such a way as to try to make someone feel inadequate, small, wimpy etc. it's not right. It's not necessary, the words themselves are enough.

 

Also, while it's true that IT people have no more right to take things and sell them for personal gain than anyone else, they are often in a position to know what the company plans for things like old phones. They were probably replaced on the say-so of her husband and he is in a position to know what value they have to the company.

 

Having said that, obviously they had real value or he could not have sold them on Ebay. That money does belong to the company and stealing is wrong. I'm sure they are very aware of that now. I know that most companies won't trifle with things like selling old phones to make some cash so he took the initiative...but he should have gotten clearance and shared the money with the rightful owners.

 

I have seen some of Lois's previous posts and know she means well and is giving "tough love." I respect that. Sometimes people will mistake that for just plain meanness. It depends on the mindset of the reader. Some people get off on meanness.

 

Finally, why do you take such offense to me saying something to Lois? What do you care if I'm lol-ing? I'm entitled to my opinions too and if I feel like laughing or expressing myself in any way, I may...and do.

[applej4]

Finally, why do you take such offense to me saying something to Lois? What do you care if I'm lol-ing? I'm entitled to my opinions too and if I feel like laughing or expressing myself in any way, I may...and do.

Kenmore, thanks for answering. I really wasn’t offended, I was kind of taken aback – but maybe I shouldn’t have been. Unlike some, I see nothing wrong with tough love in a situation like this – although I’m not optimistic about the outcome. I’ve read and participated in a lot of advice forums and often I find that people don’t want honesty (and I don’t think Lois was harsh). People often want “aawww, you poor thing” and when they don’t get that sometimes they get defensive and start attacking the poster who is essentially telling them to face the reality of a situation. Okay, that’s all…..we now return to topic.

[Lois_Griffin]

Damn Lois, don't pull any punches lol.

 

Pink, even IF an HR dept head told you something about what they will tell another prospective employer, you couldn't count on it. After all, they are made up of people and people lie. Rarely will someone look right at you and speak the truth if they think it will hurt you in any way. I'm not saying this is bad, it's what separates us from the animals, but regardless he would need to expect the worst.

 

Lois, it's interesting what you said about not disclosing a cause. It makes perfect sense and I suspect most larger companies will have a similar policy. It [kind of] opens the door to someone with a lack of ethics doing as they please if word gets out. Don't let anyone in your company know what you just told us!

Just an aside - it just about KILLED me when I couldn't divulge to a prospective employer that a prior employee had been personally escorted out of our facility by Homeland Security for being an illegal alien. I don't know how he got back IN the country a year later, but he was back and looking for a job, and my boss wouldn't let me divulge that information to a temp agency that wanted to employ him and called for a verification. Frustrating to say the LEAST.

 

O/T - but it's true, it's entirely possible the HR Dept. may divulge that he was terminated for cause for theft of company property and that could really be a problem for the OP's husband.

[Got it]

Just an aside - it just about KILLED me when I couldn't divulge to a prospective employer that a prior employee had been personally escorted out of our facility by Homeland Security for being an illegal alien. I don't know how he got back IN the country a year later, but he was back and looking for a job, and my boss wouldn't let me divulge that information to a temp agency that wanted to employ him and called for a verification. Frustrating to say the LEAST.

 

O/T - but it's true, it's entirely possible the HR Dept. may divulge that he was terminated for cause for theft of company property and that could really be a problem for the OP's husband.

 

Really? I see it as the other company's poor business planning not instituting E-Verify and thus fixing the problem before it starts. It is not the prior employer's responsibility to "save" another company from it's potential mistakes.

 

Also, he at that point may be now legal so your information may no longer be valid. It is not uncommon to have someone sent back having originally been unauthorized to work in the US and become authorized to work.

[Arabella]

Wow, this morning when I opened the thread, I was considering whether I wanted to reply at all or close it and forget about it.

 

I have gotten tons of useful advice, which I may or may not agree with, and most of it was thoughtful, and respectful.

 

But that's not the case for everyone. Some of you are taking huge leaps and making ignorant assumptions. If you're going to not read the things I post, and then make stuff up, please save us all the time and just go post in another thread.

 

Yeah, we have a lot of debt. Like I said, it is mostly from having spent 15 months as a SAHM. I was the primary breadwinner, and we just couldn't afford to live on my husband's income. He made about 60% what I make now. We also had several thousand dollars worth of moving expenses, and lastly, my husband's eating out habit was a huge money sink. That was a battle I fought the entire time I was staying at home, and lost. I take offense to being called "not financially savvy" and things of that nature when I have tried so hard to improve our financial situation.

 

Applej4, if you're going to go digging in my old threads, at least have the decency to get your facts straight. Yes, my ex owes me a lot of money. It is not $13k. More like $6k by the time he stopped paying (pretty sure I put that in the thread too, but I could be wrong). And guess what? He's an unemployed dude who leeches off his mother. I left him because of his inability to be financially responsible and hold down a job. No, spending money to sue someone who has no money wasn't in my priority list.

 

Lois_Griffin, if you're going to post in the thread, kindly actually read the things I said. The employer is not going to disclose any kind of information... in fact, the Director went out of his way to tell him that he would give him a recommendation.

 

I'll post more in a bit... got work to do now.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Arabella

[pink_sugar]

Really? I see it as the other company's poor business planning not instituting E-Verify and thus fixing the problem before it starts. It is not the prior employer's responsibility to "save" another company from it's potential mistakes.

 

Also, he at that point may be now legal so your information may no longer be valid. It is not uncommon to have someone sent back having originally been unauthorized to work in the US and become authorized to work.

 

This. You really don't know their circumstances. I'm sure they signed paperwork that they are authorized to work in the country when they weren't and your company had a right to terminate them for intentionally witholding info and lying on the job application. However that just means to screen candidates better in the future. You don't know what his circumstances were, but he could be legal to work if he's back in the country, because as Got It mentioned, it's common for undocumented to have to return home to get the immigration process moving. It's not your call to prevent him from working in the future, but you can say he would not be eligible for rehire and employers can draw their own conclusions on that.

[pink_sugar]

Wow, this morning when I opened the thread, I was considering whether I wanted to reply at all or close it and forget about it.

 

I have gotten tons of useful advice, which I may or may not agree with, and most of it was thoughtful, and respectful.

 

But that's not the case for everyone. Some of you are taking huge leaps and making ignorant assumptions. If you're going to not read the things I post, and then make stuff up, please save us all the time and just go post in another thread.

 

Yeah, we have a lot of debt. Like I said, it is mostly from having spent 15 months as a SAHM. I was the primary breadwinner, and we just couldn't afford to live on my husband's income. He made about 60% what I make now. We also had several thousand dollars worth of moving expenses, and lastly, my husband's eating out habit was a huge money sink. That was a battle I fought the entire time I was staying at home, and lost. I take offense to being called "not financially savvy" and things of that nature when I have tried so hard to improve our financial situation.

 

Applej4, if you're going to go digging in my old threads, at least have the decency to get your facts straight. Yes, my ex owes me a lot of money. It is not $13k. More like $6k by the time he stopped paying (pretty sure I put that in the thread too, but I could be wrong). And guess what? He's an unemployed dude who leeches off his mother. I left him because of his inability to be financially responsible and hold down a job. No, spending money to sue someone who has no money wasn't in my priority list.

 

Lois_Griffin, if you're going to post in the thread, kindly actually read the things I said. The employer is not going to disclose any kind of information... in fact, the Director went out of his way to tell him that he would give him a recommendation.

 

I'll post more in a bit... got work to do now.

 

I hope none of my posts seemed too harsh. I was only trying to be constructive in any advice given. It's definitely really important to have a cushion or small nest egg if you're going to stay home in the future. Especially since so much debt was inccured in those 15 months.

The strain of finances can really wear down a relationship and I know that from my own experience. People can get through it together though if they work at it as a team. I hope your H stops playing the blame game so you both can focus on getting back on track financially. It will take some effort on his part...he needs to take responsibility for himself instead of the pity party going on in his head. He has a family.

Edited August 3, 2015 by pink_sugar

[applej4]

Yes, my ex owes me a lot of money. It is not $13k. More like $6k by the time he stopped paying

Oh. Only $6k. I see. Well, that's different.

[autumnnight]

A, I read through page 10, but I just kept seeing more and more of my ex in your stories, and I cheated and didn't read the last 2 pages.

 

I think a lot of times, people underestimate non-infidelity marriage problems and their effect on a couple. Especially on forums. If it isn't cheating, then it isn't a big deal. Your story is a prime example of how someone can never sleep with another person other than their spouse and still wreak unimaginable havoc on a spouse and marriage. parts of my story are similar.

 

When I read that your H said he feels helpless and that it just doesn't seem worth it....yeah, that is kind of when I stopped reading and came to post.

 

My ex was lazy. He just was. He was skating on thin ice with his first post marriage job, and he got lucky and found another one before they actually fired him. He lost THAT job 18 months later, and he didn't really start looking for the next one until his severance ran out. By the time he found one our relatives had to pay for us to move AND help us make it through the first month in the new place. He is not very motivated or emotionally intelligent, and nothing is ever his fault, so about 2 years later, when he lost THAT job, he thought maybe it was time for a different career. After 8 years as a student, I lost a job, and the pressure was on. He found a job, did the minimum required, didn't know how to network, and he lost that job. We ended up having to live with relatives, and while I sent out 25-30 resumes a day at times....he sent out about 12 total. By this time, along with his addiction that drained our bank account, his anger issues, his refusal to be a husband in any intimate sense.....I had had enough. Now I wasn't perfect either. But his pattern of passive aggressiveness, laziness, punishing anger, and questionable work ethic took a huge toll. I just couldn't live with it anymore. And his cries of depression and illness just didn't cut it.

 

Without serious work, a person like this just does not change. It is something that has "worked" for them all their lives. In my ex's case, it was always a bit that way, but when he was diagnosed with a chronic condition as an adolescent, his parents basically just let the entire world revolve around him, and that sealed the deal.

 

I agree with Upward Forward. Time to get yourself set for a backup plan. And document every bit of this, starting with the stealing. IMO, if you do leave, the last thing you should have to do is pay support to a thief.

[Lois_Griffin]

Really? I see it as the other company's poor business planning not instituting E-Verify and thus fixing the problem before it starts. It is not the prior employer's responsibility to "save" another company from it's potential mistakes.

 

Also, he at that point may be now legal so your information may no longer be valid. It is not uncommon to have someone sent back having originally been unauthorized to work in the US and become authorized to work.

No, no, no. He WAS verified through E-Verify with the agency who called me looking for a reference. However, he had started working at my facility many years before we began using E-Verify and we had an 'ok' through the Social Security verification system for the number he'd provided us upon hire.

 

After he got dragged out of our company, he was back a year later - all checked out through e-Verify with the new agency. But I would have loved to tell them he'd deceived us for many years by having lied on all his initial documentation and that he'd been 'escorted' out by HS. THAT'S why we wouldn't hire him back, but I wasn't allowed to tell her that and instead, had to claim he'd been 'laid off' due to a reduction in workforce.

[Got it]

No, no, no. He WAS verified through E-Verify with the agency who called me looking for a reference. However, he had started working at my facility many years before we began using E-Verify and we had an 'ok' through the Social Security verification system for the number he'd provided us upon hire.

 

After he got dragged out of our company, he was back a year later - all checked out through e-Verify with the new agency. But I would have loved to tell them he'd deceived us for many years by having lied on all his initial documentation and that he'd been 'escorted' out by HS. THAT'S why we wouldn't hire him back, but I wasn't allowed to tell her that and instead, had to claim he'd been 'laid off' due to a reduction in workforce.

 

And for good reason you weren't allowed. It was not your place and really had little to do with his ability to do his job. It wasn't just company policy you legally are not allowed to have said anything. No why you would have had to give any reason is odd. No reason was needed, you don't have to answer the reason for leaving question.

 

I am sorry, I never understand HR people with personal vendettas on things like this. Why care.

[William]

It appears the thread has moved on to other people's situations and the thread starter hasn't been here for a few days so I'll close this up with thanks for member's participation and advise the thread starter to contact moderation via the alert us button on this post to request re-opening for further input or an update.

 

 

Updated 8/13/15 - Re-opened per thread starter request.

Edited August 13, 2015 by William

[Arabella]

Good evening everyone,

 

Just thought I'd post a quick update.

 

My husband ended up taking about 2 weeks off to collect himself after he was fired. During that time, we complete re-wrote his resume and researched potential companies in the area that he might want to work for.

 

We applied for unemployment (we figured, why not try) and the company contested it. Interestingly, they were given only a couple of days to produce proof of why he was fired. It might actually go through, but I think it's probably not worth actually collecting it, since they can contest it further and we would likely lose (after all, he did do what they say he did).

 

This week we posted the resume and began the job search process. It was really hard to keep him going at first, but once he started getting calls and interviews, it became a little easier for him. He's had four interviews so far, with another one coming on Monday. As expected, he's getting tons of interest from employers and all the positions pay 10-20k more than the one was at before.

 

So, things are looking up in that regard.

 

However, it's actually been really hard on him. He's very, very depressed. He's constantly saying things like "I hate my life" or "I hate people" and sleeping a lot whenever there's nothing urgent to do.

 

After I told him how helpful I find my appointments with my therapist, I convinced him to call her and make an appointment. I thought it may be helpful for him to see her since she already has all the background and some understanding of what's going on with us. He seemed skeptical but actually made the appointment, which is a pretty big accomplishment all by itself.

 

I am kind of worried about him, but things seem to be slowly improving...