Best way to handle still angry BS?

[daisygirl19]

I'm honestly not sure that this belongs here, but I wasn't sure where else to post because I am looking for input from OW who ended up with their MM and BS whose WS left.

 

A little background...My SO moved out of his house about 18 months ago. Prior to moving out, he lived on the 3rd floor for a solid year with little to no interaction with his wife other than where the kids were concerned and discussing the separation and going to MC to end the divorce. She did not want the divorce and would likely take him back today if given the chance.

 

She has known for some time that we are together and that is obviously very painful for her. We spend very little time with our kids together so there's nothing for her to take issue with on that end. As much as she claims to not care and says that she accepts that we are together, she just cannot seem to stop flying off the handle at random.

 

For example...

We were leaving our daughters' softball game a few weeks ago and SO and I were parked next to each other (arrived separately, wasn't intentional). We were both in our cars talking about where to go for dinner (neither of us had our kids that night). She walked past us, walked up to his window and asked if we were going somewhere together. Since his kids were standing right there, he didn't make a scene, just said "What? Did you need something?", thinking maybe she had an errand to run and wanted him to take the kids for a bit. She replied that she did not need anything, just wanted to know if we were going somewhere together. Now, this type of stuff has been an issue for a while and he typically calmly reminds her that it's no longer her business what he does when he's not with the kids - but, she wouldn't stop or leave without an answer and it was awkward for the kids, so he just said "yes" and she stormed away after wishing him a "horrific night". About 5 minutes later, she called screaming at him (with the kids in the car) asking why he wants to be with someone like me and if he doesn't think its her business to know what he's doing, he needs to keep reminding her of that. He told her was not having this conversation, especially with the kids in the car and hung up. She proceeded to call every two minutes and text in between the entire time we were at dinner. Asking him to call her, said she wanted to talk about it, that it was hard for her to know he is with someone else and that he needs to help her work through "the process". He's told her countless times he cannot be that person, that this behavior is not healthy and to please try speaking to her therapist about it. She sent well over 50 texts and called at least 20 times over the next 3 hours. All were ignored. Her anger escalated as usual, accusing me of refusing to "allow" him to call or speak to her and issuing her usual threats that she would bring this up in front of the kids next time she saw him since he refused to discuss that night.

 

Last night his son forgot his allergy medicine, so he went to meet her at a halfway point after he got the kids settled. He was on the phone with a client when she arrived, he apologized, said he was on a business call, thanks for meeting and left. She called 2 minutes later, he didn't answer, and then proceeded to call and text for the remainder of the night accusing him of being rude for not getting off the phone to "thank her properly", asking why he didn't want to speak to her, and telling him he better be telling the truth about it being a client and he better not have been speaking to me on the phone while going to meet her.

 

I understand her pain and anger, and I understand there is nothing I can really do about it. I also understand much of it is justified. But, is there a better way we can handle it to make it any easier for her? I stay out of her way. I do not engage with her. SO and I are never "together" in public if she is there. Nothing is thrown or rubbed in her face. I know it will take her time to get over it, if she ever does, but I just wonder if anyone has any insight or ideas on what we can do. Is this the way it's going to be forever, or does it start to subside at some point? The worst part is when it affects the kids or they witness it.

Edited July 28, 2015 by daisygirl19

[minimariah]

maybe i'm totally off here but... your SO does come off as rude in those two situations. in the 1st situation - the comment about it not being her business was kind of unneccesary. OK, she clearly isn't the most reasonable person... i get that. but it was a snarky comment and he could have said something else - especially if your children already know about the two of you being a couple. don't reply with snarky comments at her snarky comments.

 

the incident with the client & the phone WAS rude... to be honest. he could have get off the phone for at least those couple of minutes he went to meet with her.

 

will her pain loosen up...? probably. the incident where she screams in front of the kids is something to worry about but for now...? just take it easy. if things don't get better or if she gets worse -- i'd suggest for your SO to take some kind of family counseling to help THE CHILDREN to cope better by working on their relationship. this can, however - be counterproductive because it can bring her hopes up. maybe for now -- he can have a calm conversation with her & tell her that he wants them to have a civil & a friendly relationship. tell her that while he is ready to help her out with the children and be a co-parent she can rely on -- it is over with them and he wants both of them to focus on their separate lives.

 

i honestly think she is hurt by the dismissive tone her xH seems to have with her & she is clearly the "dig myself into denial" type of person... & there you have it.

 

you stay out of it -- completely. be a support and offer comfort to your SO but stay out of it. the moment you step in -- she will demonize you even more, only then she will have "proof" that you're messing with her family. so... stay out, out, out of it. be nice, civil and always polite with her. do not give her ammo for her attacks and material to support her claims of you being an evil temptress! no matter how nasty she gets -- you have to try to keep your cool at all times.

 

your SO needs to deal with it. like i said, you can only offer support. he needs to build their own dynamic and relationship and go from there. not sure what else to tell you... be patient, you'll need a lot of that. and even though she is probably annoying you... try to have as much understanding for her as you possibly can.

 

maybe he could ask for some professional opinion on how to handle the situation...? with someone who specializes in situations like these to see what would be the best thing to do. i think now is the right time for him to react. it's honestly a hit & miss type of approach -- you try different tactics and see what works out. i'm afraid your SO will need to be super patient with her for the sake of their children.

Edited July 28, 2015 by minimariah

[Mr. Lucky]

A little background...My SO moved out of his house about 18 months ago. Prior to moving out, he lived on the 3rd floor for a solid year with little to no interaction with his wife other than where the kids were concerned and discussing the separation and going to MC to end the divorce.

 

And you know this because ...you were there ? He didn't string her along at all, just in case he needed a fallback if things didn't work out with you?

 

I'd guess you've only heard one side of the story. And I also propose that, were things reversed, you wouldn't feel much different than she does.

 

The best way to keep these things from affecting the kids is to refrain from affairs with married men...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Furious]

I'm honestly not sure that this belongs here, but I wasn't sure where else to post because I am looking for input from OW who ended up with their MM and BS whose WS left.

 

A little background...My SO moved out of his house about 18 months ago. Prior to moving out, he lived on the 3rd floor for a solid year with little to no interaction with his wife other than where the kids were concerned and discussing the separation and going to MC to end the divorce. She did not want the divorce and would likely take him back today if given the chance.

 

She has known for some time that we are together and that is obviously very painful for her. We spend very little time with our kids together so there's nothing for her to take issue with on that end. As much as she claims to not care and says that she accepts that we are together, she just cannot seem to stop flying off the handle at random.

 

For example...

We were leaving our daughters' softball game a few weeks ago and SO and I were parked next to each other (arrived separately, wasn't intentional). We were both in our cars talking about where to go for dinner (neither of us had our kids that night). She walked past us, walked up to his window and asked if we were going somewhere together. Since his kids were standing right there, he didn't make a scene, just said "What? Did you need something?", thinking maybe she had an errand to run and wanted him to take the kids for a bit. She replied that she did not need anything, just wanted to know if we were going somewhere together. Now, this type of stuff has been an issue for a while and he typically calmly reminds her that it's no longer her business what he does when he's not with the kids - but, she wouldn't stop or leave without an answer and it was awkward for the kids, so he just said "yes" and she stormed away after wishing him a "horrific night". About 5 minutes later, she called screaming at him (with the kids in the car) asking why he wants to be with someone like me and if he doesn't think its her business to know what he's doing, he needs to keep reminding her of that. He told her was not having this conversation, especially with the kids in the car and hung up. She proceeded to call every two minutes and text in between the entire time we were at dinner. Asking him to call her, said she wanted to talk about it, that it was hard for her to know he is with someone else and that he needs to help her work through "the process". He's told her countless times he cannot be that person, that this behavior is not healthy and to please try speaking to her therapist about it. She sent well over 50 texts and called at least 20 times over the next 3 hours. All were ignored. Her anger escalated as usual, accusing me of refusing to "allow" him to call or speak to her and issuing her usual threats that she would bring this up in front of the kids next time she saw him since he refused to discuss that night.

 

Last night his son forgot his allergy medicine, so he went to meet her at a halfway point after he got the kids settled. He was on the phone with a client when she arrived, he apologized, said he was on a business call, thanks for meeting and left. She called 2 minutes later, he didn't answer, and then proceeded to call and text for the remainder of the night accusing him of being rude for not getting off the phone to "thank her properly", asking why he didn't want to speak to her, and telling him he better be telling the truth about it being a client and he better not have been speaking to me on the phone while going to meet her.

 

I understand her pain and anger, and I understand there is nothing I can really do about it. I also understand much of it is justified. But, is there a better way we can handle it to make it any easier for her? I stay out of her way. I do not engage with her. SO and I are never "together" in public if she is there. Nothing is thrown or rubbed in her face. I know it will take her time to get over it, if she ever does, but I just wonder if anyone has any insight or ideas on what we can do. Is this the way it's going to be forever, or does it start to subside at some point? The worst part is when it affects the kids or they witness it.

 

 

I just read your previous thread and now this thread makes sense to me.

 

Basically, you and SO, are acting as though there was no 4 year affair and have purposely misled the BS, your children and extended circle into thinking you both got together way after your divorce and MM separating from his wife.

 

Basically....technically.... she's not a betrayed spouse because you and MM have staged a false reality. It's a cruel game you've played and how you and MM come out looking squeaky clean.

 

If that's not enough you come here and focus on her irrational behaviour and what a nuisance she is. You know she suspects that she's been deceived by both of you and you know her gut is right. Does that make a difference, obviously for you it doesn't, her reality is not your concern, only the reality you and MM have manufactured.

 

As to your question on "how to handle an angry BS", I doubt this really is a sincere question. It's like asking, how can I get the person I stabbed in the back to stop crying out in pain because it's annoying.

[ladydesigner]

All I can say is WOW. What did you expect her to feel like?

 

If you don't like the way she is acting I would suggest not attending the events she is at.

[daisygirl19]

I just read your previous thread and now this thread makes sense to me.

 

Basically, you and SO, are acting as though there was no 4 year affair and have purposely misled the BS, your children and extended circle into thinking you both got together way after your divorce and MM separating from his wife.

 

Basically....technically.... she's not a betrayed spouse because you and MM have staged a false reality. It's a cruel game you've played and how you and MM come out looking squeaky clean.

 

If that's not enough you come here and focus on her irrational behaviour and what a nuisance she is. You know she suspects that she's been deceived by both of you and you know her gut is right. Does that make a difference, obviously for you it doesn't, her reality is not your concern, only the reality you and MM have manufactured.

 

As to your question on "how to handle an angry BS", I doubt this really is a sincere question. It's like asking, how can I get the person I stabbed in the back to stop crying out in pain because it's annoying.

 

Nope. I am more than willing to accept my share of the blame and take accountability for my actions. He is as well. She knows we were involved in an EA for several years while they were married and has literally begged us NOT to tell her if it was physical. To her, it does not matter. So yes, she is aware, to the extent that SHE chooses to be.

 

My intention was NEVER to come here and paint her to be irrational or a nuisance. It was and is absolutely a sincere question. I have NO interest in causing her any additional pain and I am deeply sorry for the pain I have caused her thus far. My focus at this point is moving forward in the best possible way for everyone involved. I cannot go back and undue my actions. I can only try to minimize any additional hurt going forward.

[daisygirl19]

All I can say is WOW. What did you expect her to feel like?

 

If you don't like the way she is acting I would suggest not attending the events she is at.

 

I expect her to feel exactly as she does. My question was directed to anyone who may have suggestions on how to handle the situation without causing more hurt than necessary.

 

As for avoiding each other, it's not possible in our situation. We have to find a way to coexist and I allow her to dictate that.

[daisygirl19]

And you know this because ...you were there ? He didn't string her along at all, just in case he needed a fallback if things didn't work out with you?

 

I'd guess you've only heard one side of the story. And I also propose that, were things reversed, you wouldn't feel much different than she does.

 

The best way to keep these things from affecting the kids is to refrain from affairs with married men...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I have heard her side of the story as well. They match up pretty darn well.

[jen1447]

Hm ....I think this is one of those "for every action there's a reaction" things (principle of pushback/cause and effect/etc.). Actions have consequences, even if the actor is unaware of them initially.

 

In your case her frustration I think is coming from two things - no satisfaction in general from her 'attack' on the situation (the push), and just being wronged in general. I won't preach to you about wronging her since you didn't come here for feedback about that.

 

Giving her no pushback may be taking the high road in this situation but I don't think it's actually productive for either party. With no pushback she doesn't know that her actions are having any effect (which promotes dissatisfaction and continued pushing to try to 'get it to work'), and it allows you to continue to be the recipient of attacks since you're not providing her with boundaries.

 

I'd suggest either pushing back in the form of explicitly stating boundaries (e.g. if you keep doing this you'll retain an attorney and/or pursue a restraining order against her), which would also give her the satisfaction of knowing she's gotten to you and may actually allow her enough resolution to back off, or allowing her satisfaction thru 'beating you up' (figuratively), which would mean you engage her in some way and allow her to act out until she gets it out of her system - maybe a meeting of the minds where you own up to her being wronged, or mutual therapy, or sth along those lines.

 

As strange as it sounds, doing nothing and not allowing her an outlet will probably make it worse (and incidentally make her life even more miserable). Pushing back in the form of threats of restraining orders et al would be less therapeutic for her but ultimately better than ignoring her imo.

[Sub]

I have NO interest in causing her any additional pain and I am deeply sorry for the pain I have caused her thus far.

 

Not that I know if this would work, but a shot in the dark: have you said the above to her? What have your interactions been with her personally?

[daisygirl19]

maybe i'm totally off here but... your SO does come off as rude in those two situations. in the 1st situation - the comment about it not being her business was kind of unneccesary. OK, she clearly isn't the most reasonable person... i get that. but it was a snarky comment and he could have said something else - especially if your children already know about the two of you being a couple. don't reply with snarky comments at her snarky comments.

 

the incident with the client & the phone WAS rude... to be honest. he could have get off the phone for at least those couple of minutes he went to meet with her.

 

will her pain loosen up...? probably. the incident where she screams in front of the kids is something to worry about but for now...? just take it easy. if things don't get better or if she gets worse -- i'd suggest for your SO to take some kind of family counseling to help THE CHILDREN to cope better by working on their relationship. this can, however - be counterproductive because it can bring her hopes up. maybe for now -- he can have a calm conversation with her & tell her that he wants them to have a civil & a friendly relationship. tell her that while he is ready to help her out with the children and be a co-parent she can rely on -- it is over with them and he wants both of them to focus on their separate lives.

 

i honestly think she is hurt by the dismissive tone her xH seems to have with her & she is clearly the "dig myself into denial" type of person... & there you have it.

 

you stay out of it -- completely. be a support and offer comfort to your SO but stay out of it. the moment you step in -- she will demonize you even more, only then she will have "proof" that you're messing with her family. so... stay out, out, out of it. be nice, civil and always polite with her. do not give her ammo for her attacks and material to support her claims of you being an evil temptress! no matter how nasty she gets -- you have to try to keep your cool at all times.

 

your SO needs to deal with it. like i said, you can only offer support. he needs to build their own dynamic and relationship and go from there. not sure what else to tell you... be patient, you'll need a lot of that. and even though she is probably annoying you... try to have as much understanding for her as you possibly can.

 

maybe he could ask for some professional opinion on how to handle the situation...? with someone who specializes in situations like these to see what would be the best thing to do. i think now is the right time for him to react. it's honestly a hit & miss type of approach -- you try different tactics and see what works out. i'm afraid your SO will need to be super patient with her for the sake of their children.

 

First, thank you for your response.

 

I can see your point where he may have come off as rude. In the past, when they first separated, she was on him all the time - who he was with, where is was, what he was doing, etc. After a few months, his therapist suggested he start to gently remind her that they were pursuing separate lives. Her therapist has told her she needs to stop asking. Their family counselor has said the same. The kids still see the family therapist once a month at this point and they see him as well when one or both of them feel it is needed on certain issues.

 

As for last night, it was a 30 second exchange, he put the call on hold, told her hi, sorry, I'm stuck on the phone with a client, thanks for meeting and that was that. Still, I can see how it could have come across as rude.

 

As for me, I stay out of it completely. I follow her lead. She goes through periods where she wants to sit down with me and talk and she tells me she wants us to be civil to each other at school and sports events, so I am. She then decides on the drop of a dime that she doesn't want to see or speak to me in public, and I accept that as well. When I say "speak", our interactions in public are never more than acknowledging each other with a hi and bye - when she is feeling OK with that. When she decides to ignore me and badmouth me in public when I am within earshot, I take that on the chin as well. I completely get it. I don't expect anything from her on that end.

[daisygirl19]

Not that I know if this would work, but a shot in the dark: have you said the above to her? What have your interactions been with her personally?

 

Yes, I have told her this. I have apologized to her countless times. I have done everything she has asked of me since they separated. I have offered to come clean and answer any questions she has, and do anything I can to help ease her pain. If that means keeping my distance from her, I am more than willing to do it.

 

The only time I have ever refused was last month. I was chaperoning my daughter's dance, which I do every other month throughout the school year and have for the past two years. Her son decided to attend the last dance of the year (he doesn't typically go) and she decided she wanted to chaperon the day before the dance. She told my SO to ask me not to attend and chaperon as she wanted to. I refused. She caused a minor scene at the dance and has not spoken to acknowledged me since. She still claims to SO to be extremely upset with me for not abiding by her wishes. Nothing I can do about that one...

[elaine567]

Nope. I am more than willing to accept my share of the blame and take accountability for my actions. He is as well. She knows we were involved in an EA for several years while they were married and has literally begged us NOT to tell her if it was physical. To her, it does not matter. So yes, she is aware, to the extent that SHE chooses to be.

 

My intention was NEVER to come here and paint her to be irrational or a nuisance. It was and is absolutely a sincere question. I have NO interest in causing her any additional pain and I am deeply sorry for the pain I have caused her thus far. My focus at this point is moving forward in the best possible way for everyone involved. I cannot go back and undue my actions. I can only try to minimize any additional hurt going forward.

 

But YOU cannot minimise the hurt, you ruined this woman's life, you took away her dreams, her kids are in a mess and need counselling, she is broken and you want to know how to handle her...

[Sub]

Honestly, I don't think there's much to be done on your end. I can appreciate your ability to understand where she's coming from. It's got be difficult when she "lost", and the deception is somewhat in her face, given that you're all in the same community, your kids go to the same school, events, etc. I'd probably go nuts, too. The only thing I could see easing the pressure would be to move away.

[minimariah]

Still, I can see how it could have come across as rude.

 

just keep in mind that she is hurt. when you're hurt... you kind of see everything as an attack. people will just go on about their day & do something and you'll think they did it out of malice because... well, you are hurt. then you realize that they didn't mean to hurt you - they simply don't care. they aren't focused on your feelings and watching out for you to NOT get hurt -- that realization is even more painful. so like i said - tell your SO to keep it as light and friendly as he possibly can. he can either ignore the snarky comments and attacks coming from her OR when she snaps - he can just stop... tell her to calm down and take a breath and ask her to solve it in a civil way.

 

you gotta admit that "it's none of your business" is kind of rude, no matter how rude SHE was or what was her tone. it just wasn't the time or the place -- when he wants to gently remind her, he can go with a different approach. just saying "oh, me and Daisy have some plans"... or "oh, not sure, we're thinking about going out." just something light like that.

 

patience and consistency are the key here. he cannot allow himself to answer with snarky comments on her snarky comments.

 

I don't expect anything from her on that end.

 

and keep that up. that's all you can do.

 

i'd suggest maybe a joint counseling for both your SO & his ex if things do not get better. for now - your SO can maybe meet up with her on a lunch or something... to just gently remind her that they aren't going back together, that he feels remorse for the way he went about it and that he is here to offer support as a co-parent. but other than that - he thinks they should continue with their separate lives. tell him to remind her that he respects her and will keep respecting her because they'll be in each other's lives forever. basically, let him take her out and ask her for the opportunity to move forward and heal.

 

and then... he should repeat that conversation. until she gets it and until she starts healing. repeat, repeat and repeat. stay civil and friendly, no snarky comments. ignore her attacks and outbursts and try to calm her down with civil conversation.

 

unfortunately -- you have to he prepared for the option of her NOT calming down and for the option of you having to deal with it for a long time. but, it is a consequence that comes with your choice.

Edited July 28, 2015 by minimariah

[ladydesigner]

daisygirl19 I'm not sure as a BS I would be much better if I were in a situation like your SO's BS. If I were her I would probably not attend the events you would be at just so as not to trigger. I'm sure every time she sees you she is triggered and sets her up for more pain. Is she in therapy? She really needs to be in therapy to learn how to detach from the situation. I'm sure once she starts moving on with her life and dating again you won't have the same kind of effect that you have on her now.

[Mr. Lucky]

I expect her to feel exactly as she does. My question was directed to anyone who may have suggestions on how to handle the situation without causing more hurt than necessary.

 

As for avoiding each other, it's not possible in our situation. We have to find a way to coexist and I allow her to dictate that.

 

Sound like you feel both justified in your actions and satisfied in the triage steps you've taken.

 

I cannot go back and undue my actions. I can only try to minimize any additional hurt going forward.

 

Since time travel isn't an option, what suggestions are you looking for ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[daisygirl19]

But YOU cannot minimise the hurt, you ruined this woman's life, you took away her dreams, her kids are in a mess and need counselling, she is broken and you want to know how to handle her...

 

Yes, I played a part in all of that, but NO, I am not solely responsible.

 

The kids are wonderful, or as wonderful as they can be under the circumstances. They have acclimated extremely well and handled things great so far. Therapy was done as a preventative measure, not because they were exhibiting behavior or showing signs of any issues.

[daisygirl19]

Sound like you feel both justified in your actions and satisfied in the triage steps you've taken.

 

 

 

Since time travel isn't an option, what suggestions are you looking for ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

On how best to handle things going forward. I know that in this forum, we like to condemn the OW for life, and nothing we ever do will be "right" in some people's eyes. I'm asking for suggestions from those that may have some to offer on how to best handle for all involved going forward, not telling me what I should have or could have done in the past. As you said, time travel isn't an option...

[Mr. Lucky]

You sound like someone who's organized and used to being in control. You may just have to accept a passive role as this plays out and come to terms with, since what's done is done, there's no proactive steps for you to take. Can't unring the bell...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BetrayedH]

You sound like someone who's organized and used to being in control. You may just have to accept a passive role as this plays out and come to terms with, since what's done is done, there's no proactive steps for you to take. Can't unring the bell...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Agreed. My advice would be to buckle in and suck it up. You made your bed and, as you said, time travel is not an option. You are reaping what you've sown. Frankly, if the kids are doing well (and not cursing your very existence anytime they are in your presence), then you've gotten off easier than you think.

[elaine567]

What I detect here is very little empathy, from you or your SO towards the wife. YOU ruin her life, then are "Oh so justified" in whatever you do.

 

It is all too much "she can like it or lump it" and "why doesn't she just get over it". I know she was the "enemy", but you have to accept some responsibility for the way she is acting here.

The chaperone incident is appalling, there was an opportunity to make peace, but YOU were in the RIGHT, no backing down there.

smh

 

She will NOT just get over it.

[Sandy43]

After reading your posts what I am seeing is that you destroyed a marriage and now you want his xw to shut up and get over it. All I can say is wait until your turn comes around and he does this to you, maybe then you will have some empathy for her.

[nightmare01]

The best way to "handle" an angry BS? Stay away from her.

 

Her (justified) anger is NEVER going to go away. She will probably never "get over it". You, along with her WH kicked her universe out from under her - her life is in tatters and that's at least partly your fault.

 

It's been 14 years since Dday for me. WW and I are still together... and we are mostly fine. But OM knows enough to stay away from me because if I ever saw him, things would not go well for him at all.

[daisygirl19]

What I detect here is very little empathy, from you or your SO towards the wife. YOU ruin her life, then are "Oh so justified" in whatever you do.

 

It is all too much "she can like it or lump it" and "why doesn't she just get over it". I know she was the "enemy", but you have to accept some responsibility for the way she is acting here.

The chaperone incident is appalling, there was an opportunity to make peace, but YOU were in the RIGHT, no backing down there.

smh

 

She will NOT just get over it.

 

You could not be further from the truth...

 

So, I should have bailed on my obligation, which was set 9 months in advance to accommodate her sudden desire to chaperon at the last minute? Not fair to my kid, and THAT is first and foremost.