Best way to handle still angry BS?

[velvette]

So, just wondering......if the BS is causing a scene in front of the kids and everyone else, what do the kids think is going on if they don't know daisy and the MM are together?

 

I was wondering this too.. Its rather mind boggling actually that they are now in effect gaslighting their kids.

 

 

OP do you not see that this dishonesty around the kids is far worse than any screaming the BS might do in front of them? After all every kid in the world has been yelled at some time and survived.

 

 

Few of them have their parents "friends" acting out a secret relationship in front of them only to be told sometime later that now they are going to live together and be one big happy family.

 

 

I think you and MM need to really focus on cleaning up your side of the street before you worry about any damage the kids mother is causing.

[truncated]

I wondered that too. I imagine the coversation could not be heard by them until she started yelling. Maybe her yelling to them sounded like her upset over the D and she didn't mention daisy during that part?

 

 

So the op and the mm are teaching the kids it's okay to lie, especially about something major?

 

Kids aren't stupid, and probably already know what is going on.

 

This is not a good idea at all.

 

Better to be honest with them.Lying serves no purpose.

[Noirek]

So the op and the mm are teaching the kids it's okay to lie, especially about something major?

 

Kids aren't stupid, and probably already know what is going on.

 

This is not a good idea at all.

 

Better to be honest with them.Lying serves no purpose.

 

There are two groups (and not just bs vs ap) in this thread. One encourages her to keep the relationship secret to give time. The other (you) says tell the kids. It is a matter of opinion but you are turning it into a pot shot at the OP.

[Noirek]

I was wondering this too.. Its rather mind boggling actually that they are now in effect gaslighting their kids.

 

 

OP do you not see that this dishonesty around the kids is far worse than any screaming the BS might do in front of them? After all every kid in the world has been yelled at some time and survived.

 

 

Few of them have their parents "friends" acting out a secret relationship in front of them only to be told sometime later that now they are going to live together and be one big happy family.

 

 

I think you and MM need to really focus on cleaning up your side of the street before you worry about any damage the kids mother is causing.

 

Does the nastiness and mental gymnastics ever stop to attack and belittle this poor woman?

[velvette]

Gotcha. The only way for me to "redeem myself" in the BS's eyes is to not "win" him in the end. No matter what I do, whatever steps I take to better myself and to improve the situation is tainted because I am the OW. The BS has a free pass for life. I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree.

 

The reality is that it doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree. She will probably never like you or accept you and the best you can hope for imo is that she is civil when the two of you need to be in the same space.

 

 

The BS is perfectly entitled to think of you what she will.

 

 

Likewise, the kids will decide for themselves what they think.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by BS getting a free pass. Her relationship with her kids will be what she and they make of it and has nothing to do with you.

 

 

You're doing exactly what you want whether it helps or hurts the situation. She will do the same. How it plays out is anyone's guess. The two of you have set yourself up for it to be difficult more difficult than it needed to be. You've also made it more difficult for her to deal with and thereby made it more difficult on her kids. You cant really lay that at her feet.

[velvette]

Does the nastiness and mental gymnastics ever stop to attack and belittle this poor woman?

 

 

I was entirely civil in pointing out the reality that OP herself has described.

 

 

There are no mental gymnastics.

 

 

OP said she and MM have the kids together. The kids don't know(so they think even though lots of other people know) that they are having an affair or continuing their relationship that started from an affair.

 

 

At some point in the future they will be told there is a R. Or, if they ask because they find out from someone else or become suspicious, they will then be told the truth.

 

 

You think that is healthy for any of these kids? I think it is more more unhealthy than any tantrums or meltdowns they see from their mother.

 

 

In fact, it is one of the more bizarre scenarios I have see here. All because they cant wait for 6 months until a divorce is finalized?

[daisygirl19]

If you were truly remorseful and sorry about your role, you would leave him alone and find someone else. You blow up someone's life and then stay involved, expecting them to get over it. It doesn't work like that.

 

You can't say sorry to someone and keep doing the same thing you claim to be sorry for. A truly remorseful person would end the relationship and let everyone have time to sort things out. In a few years, once everything has calmed, then you could see.

Personally, I hope you stay with him though. I firmly believe that what happened to her should also happen to you so you can truly understand the pain behind your infidelity. He will get his- in the still of the night when all is dark, he will be haunted by what he has done to his family. Whether you understand it or not, your emotional affair aided them not to be able to work their marriage out. He didn't put any effort into it- he wasn't focused because he had you. Can't focus on making a relationship work when you have another in the wings.

 

Don't have to agree with me. It is completely selfish for you to continue a relationship with this man after what you both done. But if you aren't willing to sacrifice your relationship for everyone's betterment, then what is the point? You really aren't sorry.

 

Gotcha. The only way for me to "redeem myself" in the BS's eyes is to not "win" him in the end. No matter what I do, whatever steps I take to better myself and to improve the situation is tainted because I am the OW. The BS has a free pass for life. I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree.

[Tullyseptember]

Daisy I think as long as you respect the almost ex-wife's requests in regards to the children and she does the same there isn't a whole lot you yourself can do to ease her anger. When my ex-husband didn't end up with the other woman it didn't make me feel any better at all. I didn't want to be friends with her because I just didn't like her before the affair even happened I also knew our marriage was troubled from the start. We were two young adults who had no business being in any relationships. Keep respecting the situations that involve all the children, be polite to the ex-wife when you do run into her or whatever is acceptable to each of you. Also you are no longer in an affair and being open and honest up until a point will keep your mindset of not ever entering into an affair again:)

Edited July 30, 2015 by Tullyseptember
.

[amomwhoknows]

Thank you very much for your response. This is the type of feedback I was looking to get .

 

In regards to the school stuff, while I am not willing to cease my involvement at the expense of my kids or things I have been involved in for years to cater to her, I do respect the fact that my presence pains her and I always allow her to dictate how we handle these situations when they arise. Still, my kids are first and foremost. I stand by that vehemently. Same holds for for sports. We are in a very unique situation. Our daughters have been friends since the age of 4. They have played on the same sports teams and been in school together. They have regular play dates and are each other's top 3 on the birthday party invite list. My daughter has already paid the price in some respects for my decisions where MM is concerned. I will NOT allow it again. That said, his ex is not unreasonable in this regard. Case in point, this past softball season, she requested my daughter be moved to another team. This team has been intact since these girls were 4. He said no, I will not do that to T and S (our daughters). They cannot be punished for my mistakes. She immediately agreed. She and I met, at her request, discussed how to handle the upcoming game season, and went from there. We are very fortunate that we are all very on point where the kids are concerned.

 

We do not act as a couple in public. Ever. They sometimes sit together at school events, sometimes not. Same with my ex husband and I. It's been that way as long as I've known them. Even while they were together. We never sit together and when we do interact, it's typically in a group setting. I am very conscious of this, because I know her seeing us together in any way causing extreme reactions from her. I get it.

 

I have more on the other points you raised. Many were valid and I appreciate the perspective. My brain is fried, so I'll be back to address those later

 

I look forward to your comments. I understand you wanting to protect your children and trying to work with the Ex, but understand that even that is painful for her. Put yourself in her position when you had to have that meeting. Talk about a festering wound.

 

This whole thread has been mostly about you and what you can do. I am wondering what your AP has done. I mentioned the high road and I know you have mentioned the settlement discussions. Has he shown that he values her as the mother to his children? I can only guess that the BS believes that you will end up together. I suspect she is panicked that her daughter will want to be with you and he all the time because of her BFF. Has he assured her that he won't let that happen?

 

What else has he done to try and help heal her? What steps has he taken to make amends? Does he even feel like he needs to?

 

He should have excused himself from the phone call or he simply should have driven over to get it. How far apart are they living now?

[PrettyEmily77]

In regards to the school stuff, while I am not willing to cease my involvement at the expense of my kids or things I have been involved in for years to cater to her, I do respect the fact that my presence pains her and I always allow her to dictate how we handle these situations when they arise.

 

OP, I genuinely hope the patronising, almost controlling tone in the bolded doesn't come across in your dealings with her.

 

 

If you are not willing to cater to her on something that matters to you, you can understand why she is not willing to cater to you on something that matters to her. The only thing is that she doesn't have a choice, when you do.

 

 

You say you are 'allowing her' to dictate how you handle things as if you were magnanimously doing her favour, and you also say she's not being unreasonable when it comes to her children: so essentially what you're saying is that she is a good mother and that you can't fault her parenting skills. The fact that the children are so well-adjusted (from what you're saying) is primarily a major credit to her, the wronged party in the situation.

 

 

Btw, I'm not judging your situation, I've never been in your shoes or hers, nor do I wish to be.

Edited July 30, 2015 by PrettyEmily77

[LifesontheUp]

Gotcha. The only way for me to "redeem myself" in the BS's eyes is to not "win" him in the end. No matter what I do, whatever steps I take to better myself and to improve the situation is tainted because I am the OW. The BS has a free pass for life. I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree.

 

Why do people think the husband is a prize to be won?

 

To me he is clearly a dishonest, untrustworthy person.

 

You'd be better to remember that because this is who he is and isn't a prize for goodness sake

 

Oh yeah and he continues to lie to everyone as your affair is still covered up.

Edited July 30, 2015 by LifesontheUp

[Arieswoman]

Rorocher,

Your post #137 was good until I came to this bit ;

 

but lets face it, that marriage wasn't going to make it anyway and if it wasn't the affair, it would have been something else.

 

and that is pure supposition on your part.

 

No matter what the health of any marriage is, it does not justify cheating.

 

If the WS was sooooo unhappy in this marriage with a BS that is being described as an absolute shrew of a women, why didn't he just leave?

 

 

The best advice I can give the OP is to maintain a low profile until the divorce and financial settlement is through.

 

Daisy - you voluntarily signed up for this when you started the affair - the BS didn't, remember that.

[daisygirl19]

The thing to keep in mind is that the mm and ow had an affair. Nothing will change that. No amount of "I'm sorrys" or " I feel terrible" can go back in time an erase that. The bs has to find his or her own way forward, and that will take time. It's easy for the mm or ow to feel the bs should move forward, as they have been aware of the affair from day one, and have had all the time in the world to process it. The bs has not.

 

It's like comparing someone who warns you they are going to throw a cold bucket of water on you to someone who gets it with no warning at all. Who will be the most shocked, and who will likely need the most time to recover?

 

I don't disagree with you. I cannot undo my actions. I can only try to be a better me going forward. That has been my point, and what I have asked for advice on, from my very first post.

 

I KNOW we made it an uneven playing field. I KNOW we are in a very unique situation in that we were all involved in each other's lives prior to he and I getting together, and I know that only compounds the issues we face in the future. She and I will never be able to completely avoid each other. We need to find a way to co-exist. I only want to know what *I* can do, at this point, to help facilitate that.

 

I like your comparison, and I wish it applied , but unfortunately, it doesn't really apply to our situation. I wish it did.

[amomwhoknows]

I don't disagree with you. I cannot undo my actions. I can only try to be a better me going forward. That has been my point, and what I have asked for advice on, from my very first post.

 

I KNOW we made it an uneven playing field. I KNOW we are in a very unique situation in that we were all involved in each other's lives prior to he and I getting together, and I know that only compounds the issues we face in the future. She and I will never be able to completely avoid each other. We need to find a way to co-exist. I only want to know what *I* can do, at this point, to help facilitate that.

 

How about you and he take a year off from each other. Give yourself a year to work on what is wrong with each of you, let him finalize his divorce, get his head in a better place, etc. If, at the end of the year, you get back together your relationship will have a better chance of surviving. (And he needs to tell her that you are not together. And you both need to honor the break. No contact at all.)

 

I am guessing that if I walked up to your AP and asked him if you were the reason he was getting divorced, he would come up with a list of reasons other than you. But the reality is that he didn't leave until you. He was part of a broken marriage and he needs to work on himself. It isn't good to jump from one bed to another and that is exactly what he (and you ) have done. The statistics on second marriages are simply dreadful and worse when they begin with cheating. Why chance that?

 

In the case of couple B, that is what happened, though not until they had "dated" a bit after they divorced. The kids that had been best friends ended up hating each other and they decided that a break was needed. They eventually got back together, but for a few years it was very private (not when the kids were around and still somewhat affair like.) They didn't marry until the two oldest (actually the four now that I think about it) were already off at college.

 

I suggest this in part because you don't seem willing to do anything that can really allow her to heal. While I get that you don't want your kids to suffer, I can honestly say that if you back off your school volunteer activities your kids will be fine. Why should she have to approach you to ask you to stay away? When his daughter had her birthday party did you go? Did he come to your daughter's birthday party?

 

Time really does heal, but in her case, she can't catch a break. You are around all the time. If she was your sister or your best friend, wouldn't you want the OW to simply stay away, at least for a while?

 

BS all the time report that their healing is impeded because their Ex ends up with the OW/OM.

 

I think you are looking for someone to tell you that if you become a better person, apologize for your "mistake" and skip a dance or game or two, that all will be well in the World. Not going to happen. Your relationship began poorly and at least she (and everyone she has told or will tell) will know. Eventually your kids will know too. That is what you have to understand. There is no magic bullet that will change how this began. Actions=consequences

[usernametaken]

I agree with everyone who's saying you need to be wary of gaslighting the kids.

 

Kids are just small people - they *get* things and undoubtedly know something's going on, especially given the vitriol being spewed by the BW. Don't be dishonest and give them even more reason to dislike you.

 

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

[daisygirl19]

I look forward to your comments. I understand you wanting to protect your children and trying to work with the Ex, but understand that even that is painful for her. Put yourself in her position when you had to have that meeting. Talk about a festering wound.

 

This whole thread has been mostly about you and what you can do. I am wondering what your AP has done. I mentioned the high road and I know you have mentioned the settlement discussions. Has he shown that he values her as the mother to his children? I can only guess that the BS believes that you will end up together. I suspect she is panicked that her daughter will want to be with you and he all the time because of her BFF. Has he assured her that he won't let that happen?

 

What else has he done to try and help heal her? What steps has he taken to make amends? Does he even feel like he needs to?

 

He should have excused himself from the phone call or he simply should have driven over to get it. How far apart are they living now?

 

Very fair questions. Of course this has mostly been about me. I am the one here posting. I think he has gone above and beyond where she is concerned.

 

I'm not sure what else he can do. He told her 5 years ago their marriage was in trouble, that it needed major work, that he was done. She refused to acknowledge or deal with it. He wanted MC, she refused. He went to IC, she refused to participate. She didn't agree to MC until he said he wanted to separate. Then she was agreeable. It was too late. Yes, I was a factor. Yes, I contributed. Yes, I WAS WRONG. But I do not have accept all of the blame for the demise of their marriage. He gives in to almost all of her demands. She has dictated his time with the kids, until recently. He has been MORE than fair in his settlement offer. It is far more than she would ever receive through the courts.

 

Yes, I have a good relationship with his kids, and he has a good relationship with mine. We've known each other's kids for over 5 years. His are 11 and 9 now. Mine are 12, 9 and 5. I do not think she is in any way threatened by the idea of me "stealing" her kids. They are very secure in their relationship with both of their parents and I would never do anything other than support and encourage that.

[daisygirl19]

I agree with everyone who's saying you need to be wary of gaslighting the kids.

 

Kids are just small people - they *get* things and undoubtedly know something's going on, especially given the vitriol being spewed by the BW. Don't be dishonest and give them even more reason to dislike you.

 

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

 

I see your point. I really struggle where the kids are concerned. I HATE lying about it to them. But, it is only at her request that we do so. Which of her demands am I to cater to?

[amomwhoknows]

I see your point. I really struggle where the kids are concerned. I HATE lying about it to them. But, it is only at her request that we do so. Which of her demands am I to cater to?

 

This one. Most of them. They aren't divorced yet. I know you don't think she is being unreasonable, but it isn't your circus.

 

Is he comfortable with his kids knowing that he cheated on their mother? Are you comfortable with your kids knowing you did the same? What do you plan to tell them once you go public with your relationship?

[usernametaken]

I see your point. I really struggle where the kids are concerned. I HATE lying about it to them. But, it is only at her request that we do so. Which of her demands am I to cater to?

 

Honestly? Ignore her and her demands, for the most part. This isn't to be callous - it's just that one of the benefits of divorce is not having to cater to your ex's demands anymore. Live your life.

 

The only way to have a normal relationship is to act as though you have a normal relationship. If you hide that you two are dating, it comes across that you and the boyfriend are ashamed of your relationship. The kids will pick up on this, and it will make them feel icky and resent you both.

 

Act normal. If people eventually wake up to the fact that you two were dating before - which they will, given the amount of overlap in your social circles - well, so what? You need to be prepared to address that head on.

 

You two did a bad thing. But, it's such a pedestrian transgression. Being forthright about it deprives the gossips, the looky-loos, and (most importantly) your kids' friends of much of the ammo to talk about it.

[usernametaken]

This one. Most of them. They aren't divorced yet. I know you don't think she is being unreasonable, but it isn't your circus.

 

Is he comfortable with his kids knowing that he cheated on their mother? Are you comfortable with your kids knowing you did the same? What do you plan to tell them once you go public with your relationship?

 

Though they aren't technically divorced, I've known divorces that dragged on for YEARS. Hell, a good friend's divorce took 5 years. He and his now-wife had a kid during the process because, well, she wasn't getting any younger.

 

I think the "they're still married" card is valid for 6 months. But not going on two years. That's absurd.

[amomwhoknows]

Honestly? Ignore her and her demands, for the most part. This isn't to be callous - it's just that one of the benefits of divorce is not having to cater to your ex's demands anymore. Live your life.

 

The only way to have a normal relationship is to act as though you have a normal relationship. If you hide that you two are dating, it comes across that you and the boyfriend are ashamed of your relationship. The kids will pick up on this, and it will make them feel icky and resent you both.

 

Act normal. If people eventually wake up to the fact that you two were dating before - which they will, given the amount of overlap in your social circles - well, so what? You need to be prepared to address that head on.

 

You two did a bad thing. But, it's such a pedestrian transgression. Being forthright about it deprives the gossips, the looky-loos, and (most importantly) your kids' friends of much of the ammo to talk about it.

 

They aren't divorced yet. And to a mom who now only has her kids half the time and who has to see the OW all the time, it probably doesn't feel pedestrian.

 

I wonder if part of the reason she is holding off on the divorce settlement is to keep him from making you official or telling them. If you saw my suggestion about taking a real break, a year one, above this might help him wrap up his divorce. Once they are divorced, he can do what he wants.

[amomwhoknows]

Though they aren't technically divorced, I've known divorces that dragged on for YEARS. Hell, a good friend's divorce took 5 years. He and his now-wife had a kid during the process because, well, she wasn't getting any younger.

 

I think the "they're still married" card is valid for 6 months. But not going on two years. That's absurd.

 

The original poster wants to make things better not worse.

[usernametaken]

They aren't divorced yet. And to a mom who now only has her kids half the time and who has to see the OW all the time, it probably doesn't feel pedestrian.

 

I wonder if part of the reason she is holding off on the divorce settlement is to keep him from making you official or telling them. If you saw my suggestion about taking a real break, a year one, above this might help him wrap up his divorce. Once they are divorced, he can do what he wants.

 

Obviously this is true. People die every day - hell, we all do it - and yet to those involved, it's hardly a pedestrian affair. Perhaps my phrasing was callous, and I'm sorry for that.

 

But I disagree with the rest of your post here. A year break isn't realistic - isn't going to happen. At best, they could take it underground, but then it's still an affair. Catering to the BW's demands here is essentially letting her hold their relationship hostage - and as cruel as it sounds, she doesn't get the right to do that. If she wants to stonewall the divorce, that's her prerogative, but she doesn't get to also demand that OP and her STBXH refrain from dating in the interim.

[usernametaken]

The original poster wants to make things better not worse.

 

She only wants to make things better to assuage her guilt.

 

What she needs to do is stop caring about placating the emotional needs of a person who can't be placated (because OP destroyed her life, sorry to say).

[daisygirl19]

How about you and he take a year off from each other. Give yourself a year to work on what is wrong with each of you, let him finalize his divorce, get his head in a better place, etc. If, at the end of the year, you get back together your relationship will have a better chance of surviving. (And he needs to tell her that you are not together. And you both need to honor the break. No contact at all.)

 

I am guessing that if I walked up to your AP and asked him if you were the reason he was getting divorced, he would come up with a list of reasons other than you. But the reality is that he didn't leave until you. He was part of a broken marriage and he needs to work on himself. It isn't good to jump from one bed to another and that is exactly what he (and you ) have done. The statistics on second marriages are simply dreadful and worse when they begin with cheating. Why chance that?

 

In the case of couple B, that is what happened, though not until they had "dated" a bit after they divorced. The kids that had been best friends ended up hating each other and they decided that a break was needed. They eventually got back together, but for a few years it was very private (not when the kids were around and still somewhat affair like.) They didn't marry until the two oldest (actually the four now that I think about it) were already off at college.

 

I suggest this in part because you don't seem willing to do anything that can really allow her to heal. While I get that you don't want your kids to suffer, I can honestly say that if you back off your school volunteer activities your kids will be fine. Why should she have to approach you to ask you to stay away? When his daughter had her birthday party did you go? Did he come to your daughter's birthday party?

 

Time really does heal, but in her case, she can't catch a break. You are around all the time. If she was your sister or your best friend, wouldn't you want the OW to simply stay away, at least for a while?

 

BS all the time report that their healing is impeded because their Ex ends up with the OW/OM.

 

I think you are looking for someone to tell you that if you become a better person, apologize for your "mistake" and skip a dance or game or two, that all will be well in the World. Not going to happen. Your relationship began poorly and at least she (and everyone she has told or will tell) will know. Eventually your kids will know too. That is what you have to understand. There is no magic bullet that will change how this began. Actions=consequences

 

He's been separated for a few years. He's been through MC, he's done everything she has asked and more. I'm sorry, flame away, but neither of us are willing to put our lives on hold for a year, or two, or 20, until she decides she can deal with us being together. That is out of our control. I feel as though we have done everything in our power to better ourselves, and make the transition to a healthier life and make better choices. I am genuinely sorry she is a casualty of OUR mistakes, but I do not believe us not being together for a year will allow her to heal. And if it does give her a year, does it make it less painful for her to find that we get back together after that?

 

In regards to the kids, I stand firm. My kids are my first priority. I will not cease my involvement where my kids are concerned. I will not miss my daughter's softball games because she may or may not choose to attend (this is not new, it has been this way from day one). As for his daughter's last birthday party, they had two. One was a "family" party, which he was included in. The other was a "friends" party, which she told him he was to pay for, but not attend. My daughter was not invited to either. In years past, she attended both. Both girls were crushed. My daughter texted her on her birthday (same day as the friends party) and wished her a happy birthday. She was upset and asked my daughter why she wasn't coming to her party that day. T said she didn't know about it. S said "my mom said your mom said you couldn't come". So please, I stand firm. I will not cease any involvement in my kids' lives to accommodate her or anyone else.