Best way to handle still angry BS?

[amomwhoknows]

Obviously this is true. People die every day - hell, we all do it - and yet to those involved, it's hardly a pedestrian affair. Perhaps my phrasing was callous, and I'm sorry for that.

 

But I disagree with the rest of your post here. A year break isn't realistic - isn't going to happen. At best, they could take it underground, but then it's still an affair. Catering to the BW's demands here is essentially letting her hold their relationship hostage - and as cruel as it sounds, she doesn't get the right to do that. If she wants to stonewall the divorce, that's her prerogative, but she doesn't get to also demand that OP and her STBXH refrain from dating in the interim.

 

The year break suggestion came because I watched a neighbor do it. It helped all involved heal and the truth is second marriages have a horribly low success rate and if it began with an affair, it is even less likely to work. The year, in my neighbor's case, allowed her AP to get his head on straight, wrap up things with his EX and allow the children some healing time too. Jumping from one relationship to another isn't healthy and isn't a way to build a successful anything.

 

In my neighbor's case, the oldest kids on each side had been best friends. News of their parent's affair devastated them and they acted out, first with each other and then in their families. It was a really hard time, these were good kids who had never been in trouble before. Their friendship never recovered but they can now be in the same house without wanting to hurt each other. Of course, it wasn't each other they were angry with, but their parents. It was safer to go after each other.

 

The year break (which happened after they told the kids) allowed much needed space and time to get the kids back on track. It also allowed each parent to focus their entire energy on their own kids. Something that is hard to do if you are playing insta-family.

 

I approached this thread because I have seen this before. I have seen two very similar situations, only one of which ended up in a long term relationship. The other "couple" crashed and burned within a year or two, because they didn't do anything to try and mitigate the fallout of their decisions.

[daisygirl19]

They aren't divorced yet. And to a mom who now only has her kids half the time and who has to see the OW all the time, it probably doesn't feel pedestrian.

 

I wonder if part of the reason she is holding off on the divorce settlement is to keep him from making you official or telling them. If you saw my suggestion about taking a real break, a year one, above this might help him wrap up his divorce. Once they are divorced, he can do what he wants.

 

I suspect this is partly the case.

[amomwhoknows]

He's been separated for a few years. He's been through MC, he's done everything she has asked and more. I'm sorry, flame away, but neither of us are willing to put our lives on hold for a year, or two, or 20, until she decides she can deal with us being together. That is out of our control. I feel as though we have done everything in our power to better ourselves, and make the transition to a healthier life and make better choices. I am genuinely sorry she is a casualty of OUR mistakes, but I do not believe us not being together for a year will allow her to heal. And if it does give her a year, does it make it less painful for her to find that we get back together after that?

 

In regards to the kids, I stand firm. My kids are my first priority. I will not cease my involvement where my kids are concerned. I will not miss my daughter's softball games because she may or may not choose to attend (this is not new, it has been this way from day one). As for his daughter's last birthday party, they had two. One was a "family" party, which he was included in. The other was a "friends" party, which she told him he was to pay for, but not attend. My daughter was not invited to either. In years past, she attended both. Both girls were crushed. My daughter texted her on her birthday (same day as the friends party) and wished her a happy birthday. She was upset and asked my daughter why she wasn't coming to her party that day. T said she didn't know about it. S said "my mom said your mom said you couldn't come". So please, I stand firm. I will not cease any involvement in my kids' lives to accommodate her or anyone else.

 

So how do you envision your future with him? What is it that you want? She isn't going to forgive you, your kids and his kids are going to know the origins of your relationship, etc. Can you live with all this? Knowing that she will always (or at least for a long time) hold you in disdain and likely so will others?

[usernametaken]

So how do you envision your future with him? What is it that you want? She isn't going to forgive you, your kids and his kids are going to know the origins of your relationship, etc. Can you live with all this? Knowing that she will always (or at least for a long time) hold you in disdain?

 

I think that in order to be in a relationship post-affair, you have to accept all of this as a given and push past the shame of it all.

 

Otherwise, the odds of success are very low.

 

You don't get to rewrite history and pretend that you didn't do a very bad thing. But, you can manage how the story is delivered. Total honesty puts you back in control of your story.

[minimariah]

Daisy -- i mentioned family counseling for them. sometimes... counseling with all three of BS, WS + AP helps... would that maybe be something all three of you would be willing to do...? what do you think, would that kind of counseling help the BS...?

 

just a neutral party kind of telling all three of you what you need to hear, most importantly to the BS. or maybe a counseling for the BS and xH. just a few sessions, give it a try. it can't hurt.

[Lois_Griffin]

I understand that is how she sees it. I feel very badly about that.

 

But basically, no matter what I do, for the rest of my life, I will always be in the wrong because of one bad decision? You all firmly believe that no OW can ever see the error of their ways, be remorseful and work hard to become a better person? Or does that only apply if we DON'T end up with the MM?

That sounds so noble - and completely self serving as hell.

 

You can't willingly and happily be 100% duplicitous - on a DAILY BASIS for YEARS - being a willing party to breaking up a marriage and family and then after you get what you wanted, suddenly claim to be 'remorseful' and see 'the error of your ways.'

 

That would be like me stealing lumber and appliances and household items every single day for 4 years, building myself a grand old mansion, moving in when it's ALL completed, then claiming I'm 'remorseful' for what I did and can 'see the error my ways' - while I CONTINUE to enjoy my big old dishonest mansion.

 

Rings pretty hollow, if I'm being honest.

[Lois_Griffin]

Gotcha. The only way for me to "redeem myself" in the BS's eyes is to not "win" him in the end..

LOL. Well come on, now. It's not like he's really a prize. Just being honest.

 

I have to say I agree that the BS is not handling herself well in front of her children and that's most unfortunate. I guess my biggest piece of advice for the OP as to how to deal with her anger is to stay out of her cross-hairs. There's just no other way I can see.

[daisygirl19]

Daisy -- i mentioned family counseling for them. sometimes... counseling with all three of BS, WS + AP helps... would that maybe be something all three of you would be willing to do...? what do you think, would that kind of counseling help the BS...?

 

just a neutral party kind of telling all three of you what you need to hear, most importantly to the BS. or maybe a counseling for the BS and xH. just a few sessions, give it a try. it can't hurt.

 

They are both in IC, and see the family therapist as well when either of them find it necessary. As for involving me, she would never have it.

[daisygirl19]

That sounds so noble - and completely self serving as hell.

 

You can't willingly and happily be 100% duplicitous - on a DAILY BASIS for YEARS - being a willing party to breaking up a marriage and family and then after you get what you wanted, suddenly claim to be 'remorseful' and see 'the error of your ways.'

 

That would be like me stealing lumber and appliances and household items every single day for 4 years, building myself a grand old mansion, moving in when it's ALL completed, then claiming I'm 'remorseful' for what I did and can 'see the error my ways' - while I CONTINUE to enjoy my big old dishonest mansion.

 

Rings pretty hollow, if I'm being honest.

 

Fair enough.

[daisygirl19]

She only wants to make things better to assuage her guilt.

 

What she needs to do is stop caring about placating the emotional needs of a person who can't be placated (because OP destroyed her life, sorry to say).

 

You may have a valid point. But I am not the sole destroyer.

[daisygirl19]

So how do you envision your future with him? What is it that you want? She isn't going to forgive you, your kids and his kids are going to know the origins of your relationship, etc. Can you live with all this? Knowing that she will always (or at least for a long time) hold you in disdain and likely so will others?

 

I want to not cause her further pain. I understand she will hate me and blame me solely for the rest of her life. That's my issue to deal with and I am doing that. What I want, if I'm being completely honest, is for her to stop holding the kids and her divorce hostage in effort to hold on to her pain.

[cocorico]

 

Because I think we can all agree that it would be best for the kids if all parties involved were moving on in a healthy way, and a healthy BW is good for the kids.

 

Absolutely!

 

Which is why walking on eggshells and enabling her behaviour is likely to be counterproductive.

[amomwhoknows]

I want to not cause her further pain. I understand she will hate me and blame me solely for the rest of her life. That's my issue to deal with and I am doing that. What I want, if I'm being completely honest, is for her to stop holding the kids and her divorce hostage in effort to hold on to her pain.

 

Ugh. do you think her pain is justified? Do you think she likes not seeing her kids half the time? I think you are OK with your joint custody, so she must be too? Remember you had years to figure out your path, it wasn't dumped on you with the extra salt in the wound of your Ex leaving your for another woman.

 

How is she holding the kids hostage? Can you give an example?

 

You are ok with your children (and his) knowing how the relationship began? Because to be clear they will know? Your daughters relationship will be impacted once all this becomes public -- you realize that correct?

 

I think you want forgiveness from her for you and for him. I think you know that you have done something really wrong and you can't figure out how to get past the guilt. And you may never -- can you live with feeling badly every time you see her, especially if she struggles to move forward? Can you live with knowing that his kids are with an sad mother half the time?

 

You do know that if had just left without you being in the picture, the divorce would have been smoother and she would have healed faster. You realize that right?

[daisygirl19]

Absolutely!

 

Which is why walking on eggshells and enabling her behaviour is likely to be counterproductive.

 

I guess the question is then, is there a way to do this without causing her more pain? Because to be honest, he and I are both reaching the end of our rope. We all want to move on. The kids want to move on. I feel sometimes like the more we all give, the worse it makes things. On the rare occasions I have refused to back down (ie - dance), things tend to get a little better.

[amomwhoknows]

I guess the question is then, is there a way to do this without causing her more pain? Because to be honest, he and I are both reaching the end of our rope. We all want to move on. The kids want to move on. I feel sometimes like the more we all give, the worse it makes things. On the rare occasions I have refused to back down (ie - dance), things tend to get a little better.

 

No. Your situation is likely to be painful to her for a very long time. Does she have friends and family to support her? Are you confident that she won't want to move away if things remain painful to her?

 

Can you imagine how she will feel if you both gang up on her? You need to stay as far away from her as possible. Discussions about schedules, who is doing what, etc need to be with him. He needs to own what he did and he starts by saying "no more" to her desire to talk about things with you. So, if the dance schedule comes out next year, he approaches her and says if you can't be there with Daisy, then which 1/2 would you like to attend. If there are parental obligations with softball, he handles it with her for the kids -- not you. If she asks to talk to you about something, he says no, our kids, my show.

 

If you go public with your relationship, he needs to never ever use the word WE when sending her emails. They are their kids, not yours.

 

Can you please answer my questions about your comfort level with the kids knowing how your relationship started? I am worried that you are so fixated on her that you don't realize that the worst probably hasn't happened yet.

Edited July 30, 2015 by amomwhoknows

[cocorico]

I guess the question is then, is there a way to do this without causing her more pain? Because to be honest, he and I are both reaching the end of our rope. We all want to move on. The kids want to move on. I feel sometimes like the more we all give, the worse it makes things. On the rare occasions I have refused to back down (ie - dance), things tend to get a little better.

 

Unsurprising.

 

When small children are overwhelmed, their superegos take a back seat and their actions are driven by pure id. It sounds as if the same is happening to her, as was the case with my H's xBW. And, as with overwhelmed kids, you can give in to the tantrum - reinforcing its efficacy for next time - or you can set boundaries. It's not about punishment - it's about refusing to let "bad behaviour" influence outcomes.

 

Don't back down. Don't escalate things either, but just do what you were intending to before the tantrums. By enabling her tantrums, the dynamic keeps her trapped in that mode. If her tantrums aren't accommodated, she will have to draw on other - more adult - ways of relating. It's best for everyone. Remaining infantilised is not in her best interests.

[Arieswoman]

amumwhoknows,

This is a very smart and astute post #191

 

Thanks for bringing some reality and sound common sense into this discussion.

 

How about you and he take a year off from each other. Give yourself a year to work on what is wrong with each of you, let him finalize his divorce, get his head in a better place, etc. If, at the end of the year, you get back together your relationship will have a better chance of surviving. (And he needs to tell her that you are not together. And you both need to honor the break. No contact at all.)

 

I am guessing that if I walked up to your AP and asked him if you were the reason he was getting divorced, he would come up with a list of reasons other than you. But the reality is that he didn't leave until you. He was part of a broken marriage and he needs to work on himself. It isn't good to jump from one bed to another and that is exactly what he (and you ) have done. The statistics on second marriages are simply dreadful and worse when they begin with cheating. Why chance that?

 

In the case of couple B, that is what happened, though not until they had "dated" a bit after they divorced. The kids that had been best friends ended up hating each other and they decided that a break was needed. They eventually got back together, but for a few years it was very private (not when the kids were around and still somewhat affair like.) They didn't marry until the two oldest (actually the four now that I think about it) were already off at college.

 

I suggest this in part because you don't seem willing to do anything that can really allow her to heal. While I get that you don't want your kids to suffer, I can honestly say that if you back off your school volunteer activities your kids will be fine. Why should she have to approach you to ask you to stay away? When his daughter had her birthday party did you go? Did he come to your daughter's birthday party?

 

Time really does heal, but in her case, she can't catch a break. You are around all the time. If she was your sister or your best friend, wouldn't you want the OW to simply stay away, at least for a while?

 

BS all the time report that their healing is impeded because their Ex ends up with the OW/OM.

 

I think you are looking for someone to tell you that if you become a better person, apologize for your "mistake" and skip a dance or game or two, that all will be well in the World. Not going to happen. Your relationship began poorly and at least she (and everyone she has told or will tell) will know. Eventually your kids will know too. That is what you have to understand. There is no magic bullet that will change how this began. Actions=consequences

[PrettyEmily77]

What I want, if I'm being completely honest, is for her to stop holding the kids and her divorce hostage in effort to hold on to her pain.

.

 

 

You want ppl here to see her as a villain with no self-restraint, as per the title of your thread.

 

 

The fact of the matter is, she can do whatever she wants with her divorce; you have no right to want anything from her. If stalling on this helps her get a better grip on what's happening around her, then so be it.

 

 

She's not holding your kids to random, so what's stopping you from telling your own children what's happening? If you don't want to cater to her over dance schedules because your kids come first, it seems strange you're accommodating her on not telling your own children the truth.

[minimariah]

I guess the question is then, is there a way to do this without causing her more pain? Because to be honest, he and I are both reaching the end of our rope. We all want to move on. The kids want to move on. I feel sometimes like the more we all give, the worse it makes things. On the rare occasions I have refused to back down (ie - dance), things tend to get a little better.

 

there is -- just keep it friendly, civil and respectful. stay out of it and be a support to your partner. tell your partner to talk to her once again and to show respect but to also ask her to handle this in a little more civil manner... that's all really. the rest is on her. you can only control your actions and emotions... can't make her "get over it" or sign the divorce papers.

 

i mean, they are already divorced anyway. that piece of paper won't really do that much of a difference.

[Carm]

I want to not cause her further pain. I understand she will hate me and blame me solely for the rest of her life. That's my issue to deal with and I am doing that. What I want, if I'm being completely honest, is for her to stop holding the kids and her divorce hostage in effort to hold on to her pain.

 

While that would be ideal, I'm sorry it's not going to happen. Seriously, what did you expect? She will hold onto the pain for years to come before she finally lets go. It bothers me how OW do this and expect the BS just get on with their life.

 

 

Recently a MM repeatedly asked me out for dinner and I kept saying no. The last time he asked me I told him not to ask me again and if he wanted to go out for dinner then he should ask his wife. It's that simple, I don't know why OW put themselves in these situations. And like some other people have said, you haven't scored any kind of prize.

Edited July 30, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Curdie]

I want to not cause her further pain. I understand she will hate me and blame me solely for the rest of her life. That's my issue to deal with and I am doing that. What I want, if I'm being completely honest, is for her to stop holding the kids and her divorce hostage in effort to hold on to her pain.

 

Where was all this concern for the kids when you started the affair? As a mother it is your job to provide a happy, safe, emotionally healthy environment for your kids. How does a relationship with a mm achieve that? Worse yet, how does encouraging a relationship between the two sets of kids achieve that? Let's get real here. When the kids realize what really happened they will see it as an us vs them situation. It will be all the worse if they get to know you and your kids on a personal level. The betrayal they feel will be doubled. And what impact will this have down the road, when they begin exploring romantic relationships? What kind of model are you creating for them? Mm's marriage may have been bad, but your relationship is just as dysfunctional.

 

You're clearly not worried about the kids. If you were you'd put your selfish wants aside and do what's best for them-Therapy for all parties involved and a clean cut with the dysfunctional family dynamic you are creating. But you won't do that because for all of the "won't someone just think of the children!" that goes on most people will always put themselves first.

[William]

As a quick reminder as I have already handled a half dozen alerts on this thread today. Keep all replies both RESPECTFUL and on topic. Margin for error will be much thinner from here forward. ~Thank you

[ladydesigner]

daisygirl19 I think the best thing to do is just stay out of everything BS related and have your SO deal with her. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. I have been both a MOW and BS.

 

This BS needs time and therapy (which I know you said she was in). I think she also needs time away from you and her xWh. No reminders in her face with the kids and all that jazz.

 

I honestly, if I were this BS I would have to move and I would also move all my kids activities so they were not joint with your kids. The whole kids being at the same sports would be enough to keep triggering me and keeping me from healing. This BS needs less triggers.

 

I too feel the sooner the D can be settled the sooner she could start focusing on herself and her life.

 

She should only be dealing with her ex and not you at all.

[truncated]

Unsurprising.

 

When small children are overwhelmed, their superegos take a back seat and their actions are driven by pure id. It sounds as if the same is happening to her, as was the case with my H's xBW. And, as with overwhelmed kids, you can give in to the tantrum - reinforcing its efficacy for next time - or you can set boundaries. It's not about punishment - it's about refusing to let "bad behaviour" influence outcomes.

 

Don't back down. Don't escalate things either, but just do what you were intending to before the tantrums. By enabling her tantrums, the dynamic keeps her trapped in that mode. If her tantrums aren't accommodated, she will have to draw on other - more adult - ways of relating. It's best for everyone. Remaining infantilised is not in her best interests.

 

 

Please stop being so condescending towards a woman you do not even know, and stop tying to make it sound as if she has some sort of behavioral problem.

She is not a child, she is not an infant, and she is not acting like one. she is acting like an adult who has been hurt, and the lack of empathy towards her is sad.

 

Op,

yes, the bw may not be acting in a stellar way, but nether did you or her ex husband. You have had your time to address your actions and begin to move forward. You were able to make choices about what your relationship.

 

She has not had that time nor that opportunity. Is it too much to ask for her to have it now?

Yes, her marriage may have been over for a while, but you and her ex husband decided to throw the affair into the mix, and she will need time to come to terms with that.

She may also well feel like she is protecting her children from you She may see you as a cr@ppy sort of person ( I'm not saying you are, but in her position, i can understand why she might think that).

 

You best remedy to all of this is time. Given time and distance,she may still hurt but it won't be so new and raw.

[daisygirl19]

Ugh. do you think her pain is justified? Do you think she likes not seeing her kids half the time? I think you are OK with your joint custody, so she must be too? Remember you had years to figure out your path, it wasn't dumped on you with the extra salt in the wound of your Ex leaving your for another woman.

 

How is she holding the kids hostage? Can you give an example?

 

You are ok with your children (and his) knowing how the relationship began? Because to be clear they will know? Your daughters relationship will be impacted once all this becomes public -- you realize that correct?

 

I think you want forgiveness from her for you and for him. I think you know that you have done something really wrong and you can't figure out how to get past the guilt. And you may never -- can you live with feeling badly every time you see her, especially if she struggles to move forward? Can you live with knowing that his kids are with an sad mother half the time?

 

You do know that if had just left without you being in the picture, the divorce would have been smoother and she would have healed faster. You realize that right?

 

Yes, I think her pain is justified.

 

No, I will never be OK with having my kids 50% of the time. I don't expect anyone to be OK with that. It is, however, part of divorce. I would tend to agree with you that I had years to plan or prepare for it, but she did too, to some extent. She knew her marriage was in trouble at least 5 years ago, well before me, and he wanted to work on it or end it. She refused to work on it. Again, not saying that makes what we did in any way OK, but to say she was blindsided isn't exactly fair. She may SEE if that way, but it's not the case. I can't be responsible for that specifically.

 

In terms of holding the kids hostage, maybe that was a poor choice of words. I guess what I mean is, I feel that she holds them back from moving on as a divorced family.

 

Am I OK with our kids knowing how our relationship began? Of course I am not OK with it. Nor do I think there is a way to justify it as "right " or "OK". What I DO believe is that the kids are fine, as much as people here want to argue that point. They know all of us. They know we are good people, and I don't think they are doomed for life because of my mistakes.

 

You may be right on the guilt. I agree much of my issue is likely guilt driven. While I don't expect her to forgive me, clearly I need to work harder on forgiving myself. This however, is far from the place for me to do that...