Best way to handle still angry BS?

[anika99]

"So, I do think that even being an outsider one can "know" in some small way the predecessor. I don't think we can simply dismiss it as a divorcing spouse's negativity or the new partner's need to stake her own territory (although an element of each may certainly be involved)."

 

Yes you know in some small way. You have your friends side and you have your own observations and there is probably truth to what you have seen and heard, but even truth can be biased and twisted when you don't have both sides and know the whole story.

 

Many years ago I had a long term relationship with an alcoholic and his best friends were a married couple. There were obviously problems in our relationship and every time we had an argument he would complain about it to his friends and describe the details from his perspective. I didn't know this and as they were his friends for many years I respected that and certainly never talked about my BF or the details of our relationship to them. Overtime I started to notice a sort of subtle coldness directed my way from these friends. It was hard to detect but when we together in a large group it seemed like they were just polite to me while being genuinely friendly with others. I picked up on it and asked my BF about it and he said that it was just because they cared about him and worried about him which instantly tipped me off to the fact he had been complaining to them about me. Even though this hurt me I remained respectful and polite to them as I had no interest in starting any drama over it.

 

Meanwhile the relationship between he and I continued to deteriorate and we eventually split. After the split a few people told me on separate occasions what my BF's friends were saying about me and why our relationship failed and I can't believe how incredibly twisted the things they were stating as fact had become. There were elements of truth to what they said but they were missing about 75% of the whole story. They were oblivious to that though, they didn't seem to realize that they were missing a huge chunk of info and so they considered themselves all knowing experts when it came to my relationship. So I have been on the receiving end of people who think they know so much when in fact they knew so very little. It was a lesson to me because prior to that I too had judged others relationships and thought I knew who was doing what and who was at fault.

[minimariah]

Fair point. While I know, and SO knows, that will NEVER happen, and we would never encourage it or allow it to happen, I can see how this could be a fear of hers.

 

yeah, it's probably her biggest fear - i think.

you're handling it well from everything i know about your situation, both you and your SO and keep that up.

 

did they meet up about the divorce?

maybe she'll be serious about it this time?

[Sub]

But if it was, he is already remarried. How long does she "own the right" to allow the past to continue to impact her life let alone everyone else. And how long is everyone expected to accommodate it?

 

Maybe I missed something. Daisy and her SO got married?

[daisygirl19]

When my neighbor first moved in with her affair partner, remember same neighborhood, he would come home from work to find his kids at the house when it wasn't his day. (Remember these were older tweens/teens). He would send them home.

 

The schedule was the schedule became his mantra. He knew that his kids would like to hang at his house, first less supervision and second her kids were there too. He made it clear as daylight to his boys that the schedule was the schedule. Over time, they became more flexible, but always with an eye to equal. So if he was suppose to have dinner with them but she had something they wanted to do with her, he would simply trade nights. Everyone slept where the schedule said they were to sleep -- even if they didn't want to.

 

By being so consistent, he helped alleviate some of his now ex wife's fears. Because insta-family was a big threat. Your kids will need to understand that too. They can't ask little Jenny to sleep over when it isn't their dad's night. No begging little Johnny to come play a game when it is time for him to leave. Does this make sense?

 

Your guy needs to do the same. Though the kids are younger, and the neighborhood isn't the same, the mantra needs to be the schedule is the schedule, its not my night (or its mom's night) etc. After a while the kids will get it.

 

I think she feels left out because her personality inhibits her from being the planner, the instigator of fun etc. This may change when the break is clean and she truly feels on her own. As her kids get older, they may be better able to communicate with her about their needs too.

 

Did she take them on vacation this summer?

 

Great points. I am already very strict with kids and their schedules. It would be no different with his. I firmly believe in equal time with both parents.

 

Yes, she took them on two vacations this summer, each for one week, and they are currently away on another one now for 5 days.

[daisygirl19]

yeah, it's probably her biggest fear - i think.

you're handling it well from everything i know about your situation, both you and your SO and keep that up.

 

did they meet up about the divorce?

maybe she'll be serious about it this time?

 

Thanks . Not sure. She wants to discuss when she returns from vacation and after their son's birthday on Wednesday.

[anna121]

Daisy I have no dog in this fight and I think generally you are trying to be reasonable but...

 

I think what some posters are reacting to is a pervasive thread of contempt throughout your descriptions of her.

 

Like,

 

she was "sheltered"; obsessive about "family time"; was clearly mistaken about how "serious" the relationship was in the early days; friends and family were mystified as to why they got married in the first place; and your BF was "never really happy with her" and just sort of fell into marriage.

 

You do say that the kids have a great relationship with her; that she is very attractive; and that she can manage the household well. But I notice that all of this subtly bolsters your stance that she is more than capable of getting over it and perhaps getting into a new re-ship.

 

I mean, it is what it is and you will feel what you feel. But I am pretty sure she knows exactly how superior you feel to her, and it will surely sabotage what small chance for peace may exist.

[sandylee1]

Really good point. Yes, he defends her and does A LOT to protect her relationship with the kids. They have a great relationship with her and love both parents equally. I think the biggest issue for the kids is that they ask for more time with him at his house and she refuses to allow it. I think she sees it as a competition sometimes and I know she feels left out when he is with the kids.

 

This can be really tricky and I can understand how the BW feels about this.

 

My remarried brother has this issue. His ex is still single and his house is more like being in a family and I suspect more fun, because his wife is quite an easy going fun person as is he. The kids call my brother wanting to come over when it's mom's time.

 

I'd find it very painful as a mom, but she usually let's it happen. I'm sure it does upset her a bit though she's not one to express it.

 

People who don't know them think the step mom is their mom. Now that would annoy me, but I don't think my Ex SIL knows this.

 

ETA

 

Imagine that the kids want to spend Christmas with the dad even when it's not his turn because it's more fun. Yep - that happened

Edited September 5, 2015 by sandylee1
eta

[Got it]

Maybe I missed something. Daisy and her SO got married?

 

If you see the post I quoted it was another example/person being discussed, not OP.

[Sub]

If you see the post I quoted it was another example/person being discussed, not OP.

 

Ah, my bad. Sorry about that.

[minimariah]

My remarried brother has this issue. His ex is still single and his house is more like being in a family and I suspect more fun, because his wife is quite an easy going fun person as is he. The kids call my brother wanting to come over when it's mom's time.

 

yeah... this sucks for their mom.

 

i remember that was my biggest fear -- i became 10x more creative and fun after i got divorced, i was so scared. you feel like you don't belong to your own family anymore - it is very hard to compete with new & fresh and the other parent's new family (especially if the kids are all friends).

 

i think most kids naturally go where there is a bigger family, more fun. it's pretty impossible to create such an atmosphere when you're single + add cheated on and dumped on top of that. very hard to rise above and move forward.

 

also, to keep both relationships between kids and the two parents strong - you need to cooperate with the other parent & unfortunatelly, it's almost never like that. divorced folks are rarely support to one another and they rarely encourage and praise the other parent in front of the kids - they will superior and like they've "won" when the kids want them more.

 

so if the OP's partner is supportive and encourages the time between the kids and the parents, that's awesome. when the kids want to spend more time with one parent than the other - the other should "push" them back to the first parent and encourage their time together.

[truncated]

Great points. I am already very strict with kids and their schedules. It would be no different with his. I firmly believe in equal time with both parents.

 

Yes, she took them on two vacations this summer, each for one week, and they are currently away on another one now for 5 days.

 

 

Why would you be involved in making schedules for their kids? You are not their mother. Why would you have any sort of say in that?

[daisygirl19]

Why would you be involved in making schedules for their kids? You are not their mother. Why would you have any sort of say in that?

 

I wouldn't be. I only meant that I already adhere to a strict schedule with my own kids. I would never encourage or support him not to do the same.

[daisygirl19]

Daisy I have no dog in this fight and I think generally you are trying to be reasonable but...

 

I think what some posters are reacting to is a pervasive thread of contempt throughout your descriptions of her.

 

Like,

 

she was "sheltered"; obsessive about "family time"; was clearly mistaken about how "serious" the relationship was in the early days; friends and family were mystified as to why they got married in the first place; and your BF was "never really happy with her" and just sort of fell into marriage.

 

You do say that the kids have a great relationship with her; that she is very attractive; and that she can manage the household well. But I notice that all of this subtly bolsters your stance that she is more than capable of getting over it and perhaps getting into a new re-ship.

 

I mean, it is what it is and you will feel what you feel. But I am pretty sure she knows exactly how superior you feel to her, and it will surely sabotage what small chance for peace may exist.

 

I have plenty of flaws, and don't feel superior to her in any way.

[Sub]

Thanks . Not sure. She wants to discuss when she returns from vacation and after their son's birthday on Wednesday.

 

Well, that's a potentially positive step. For all of you, I hope the discussion helps push things forward and the relatively rational/peaceful moments become more of the norm.

[daisygirl19]

Well, that's a potentially positive step. For all of you, I hope the discussion helps push things forward and the relatively rational/peaceful moments become more of the norm.

 

Me too. I wish her no harm. I am deeply apologetic for the pain we have caused her. I am in a unique position, in that I understand firsthand the pain the BS feels, having been one myself.

[Furious]

Something seems off.

 

MM living on the third floor, no sex for years, and then moves out and legally separated for nearly two years and in a long term affair while you were married and now who has been divorced for a few years and yet you're still waiting..and waiting for his "divorce" to be finalized.

 

His wife can attempt to ask for the stars and the moon, but legally she is entitled to 50/50 split, and if they cannot come to an agreement the judge presiding their divorce case will follow the law and she and your MM know where they legally stand.

 

i have a feeling MM is stalling, I think he uses he wife's unreasonable requests as an excuse to remain in limbo. Right now things are exactly where he may want it to be, if he were to finally get that divorce he'd have to marry you.

 

Has he proposed to you?

 

Why is he making you wait and wait and wait, and how convenient his mean wife is keeping you apart.

 

It seems he complains regularly, pitting you against his wife and this seems to distract you from the limbo he has established. I see that he is manipulative and he's exactly where he wants to be.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Furious

[minimariah]

Why is he making you wait and wait and wait, and how convenient his mean wife is keeping you apart.

 

i don't think the OP is waiting - they are together, aren't they...?

 

i think the OP's partner doesn't want to press the BS with the divorce because she is already handling everything badly -- so i assume he wants to keep it as friendly as possible.

 

after all, from everything the OP wrote on this thread, it's pretty safe to say that he isn't going back.

[goodyblue]

Something seems off.

 

MM living on the third floor, no sex for years, and then moves out and legally separated for nearly two years and in a long term affair while you were married and now who has been divorced for a few years and yet you're still waiting..and waiting for his "divorce" to be finalized.

 

His wife can attempt to ask for the stars and the moon, but legally she is entitled to 50/50 split, and if they cannot come to an agreement the judge presiding their divorce case will follow the law and she and your MM know where they legally stand.

 

i have a feeling MM is stalling, I think he uses he wife's unreasonable requests as an excuse to remain in limbo. Right now things are exactly where he may want it to be, if he were to finally get that divorce he'd have to marry you.

 

Has he proposed to you?

 

Why is he making you wait and wait and wait, and how convenient his mean wife is keeping you apart.

 

It seems he complains regularly, pitting you against his wife and this seems to distract you from the limbo he has established. I see that he is manipulative and he's exactly where he wants to be.

 

I disagree. Having lived it, I know it takes time.

[georgia girl]

I usually wouldn't reply to one of these threads, but it hit so close to home I had to. One of my husband's best friends is divorced and remarried. His second wife did not come before his first wife. They began dating after he had been legally separated for nearly a year (the divorce dragging on was because his first wife didn't want it) and he had left simply because he wanted out.

 

No one is perfect and I'm sure my husband's friend wasn't a perfect spouse. However, I do know that there were MANY issues with his first wife all along that drove him away. She was very controlling and restrictive. I never really "got to know" him until after they split. When they were married, she wouldn't allow him to attend any group functions and if he did, he had to stay and go within an hour while constantly being bombarded with his phone. The paranoia was out of control and I was appalled when I first saw it and then watched it continue. After they split and we would have get-togethers, I got to know my husband's friend and to a person, folks would comment on how this was "the real XXX" and how they hadn't seen him in years.

 

So, I do think that even being an outsider one can "know" in some small way the predecessor. I don't think we can simply dismiss it as a divorcing spouse's negativity or the new partner's need to stake her own territory (although an element of each may certainly be involved).

 

But, to my point, I've also seen how a certain personality can make all the wrong choices in divorcing that will alienate people and be personally harmful to herself. In my friend's case, his ex-wife still does "drive-bys" of the new couple's house, particularly when she doesn't have the kids. She makes comments about "being traded in for a younger model" to the kids - she was the same age as her ex-husband; the new wife is four years younger but admittedly looks 10 years younger. She often speaks of her ex-husband "abandoning his family."

 

On the flip side, while they will discuss very privately with us what's going on, neither partner will ever say a bad word in front of his children nor his family about the ex-wife.

 

What has happened? Without getting into their private details, the kids have had enough. It's so tragic that I want to shake the ex-wife and tell her that she's harming herself and her children. It's been three years since the split and a year since the new marriage. She has not moved on at all and yet the new couple and the children have. In the end, her actions are driving her to be lonely and angry. (And she's NOT a bad person. She's actually quite funny, bright and compassionate. She really just never learned how to be a good partner or control her impulse to control.)

 

So, I post to the original poster. Your relationship may not have "started the right way," but you're honest and dealing with that fallout. But please don't take on her weaknesses. That's not yours to own. Instead, just keep doing what you're doing. Live well. Be a stable, soft and calm environment for yourself, your partner and your combined children. She'll ultimately have to make the choice for herself to let go and start living in a more healthy way. But don't react to what she does. It pulls you out of you and you'll only regret it. Live well.

 

Unfortunately, this is why I almost didn't post to this thread. Now I feel like I have to defend all three people who really didn't ask for their lives to be shared. No, there was no affair by any party throughout the life of the two marriages. Yes, there are some underlying relationship skills one partner struggled with, but it doesn't diminish her as a person. It does make it hard to have a relationship with someone who struggles with control and it does make it hard on partners and children. Certainly, as other posters have shared, there are many instances where external events or actions by the other partner can create or exacerbate these tendencies. In my example, I can see where this would have been the case as well. No one leaves a marriage easily - even when there was no affair - and I am sure my husbands friend pulled away and became emotionally unavailable, which has to have been incredibly hurtful for the first wife. No one in my example did everything right or wrong. Finally, I do know that they have only talked to us. My husband has the distinction of standing up for him twice and his brother and other friends have expressed how they have no idea what is going in from his side because he won't talk about it and changes the subject. He has always been a private person, according to my husband, and he would see it as intensely disloyal to talk about his ex. That is simply who he is.

 

My point was/is that now, Daisy and her SO have to work to create calm and quiet to give everyone the best environment to work within. Calm will hopefully give his ex two messages - one that being demanding won't be successful and two that she does not have to fear them or their reactions in return. That may create the space she needs to get herself back to good. For the kids, calm quite frankly means that tension between us isn't something you should or need to see. Kids fear chaos, anger and tension. Somehow, it strikes at their sense of security and happiness. This has likely been tough on them. Calm and quiet is reassuring.

 

Daisy, I am glad that you own the extra reason for his soon-to-be ex-wife's anger. Use that to give her just a little more space.

[anna121]

I have plenty of flaws, and don't feel superior to her in any way.

 

To me, that simply does not come across in your descriptions of her in this thread.

[Furious]

i don't think the OP is waiting - they are together, aren't they...?

 

i think the OP's partner doesn't want to press the BS with the divorce because she is already handling everything badly -- so i assume he wants to keep it as friendly as possible.

 

after all, from everything the OP wrote on this thread, it's pretty safe to say that he isn't going back.

 

MM moved out to his place and has been separated for two years and still no divorce. The situation is they are keeping their relationship secret from both their children.

 

They are together but not as a public couple as yet, but that divorce is taking a really long time and it looks like OP is waiting, she often mentions how his wife keeps stalling that divorce.

[minimariah]

MM moved out to his place and has been separated for two years and still no divorce. The situation is they are keeping their relationship secret from both their children.

 

They are together but not as a public couple as yet, but that divorce is taking a really long time and it looks like OP is waiting, she often mentions how his wife keeps stalling that divorce.

 

i think the OP said that the children AT LEAST suspect - they even went to vacation together. they do go to the public as a couple & if i understood right - they don't hide.

 

i highly doubt this is the case where the MM stalls and wants to get back to the BS or even keeps the BS as a second choice if the things with the OP don't work out.

[Furious]

i highly doubt this is the case where the MM stalls and wants to get back to the BS or even keeps the BS as a second choice if the things with the OP don't work out.

 

I didn't say MM is stalling because he might get back with his wife as plan b.

 

He moved out two years ago, has his own place, he does not need his wife's permission to divorce her and legally she is only entitled to 50/50 split of their home. All he has to do is serve her with divorce papers and see her in divorce court and put an end to his complaining about his wife as the one stalling.

 

MM seems to the one stalling that for two years he has been keeping two women stuck in limbo, two women who are pitted against each other and the dysfunctional drama his and op's kids are going through.

[Sub]

It sounds like he doesn't want to come off as the bad guy. He's trying to be reasonable, whether out of guilt or in the best interests of his kids. But at the same time, he's going to have to suck it up and play hard ball. And he may not look completely rosy doing it. Based on the fact that he married and had kids with a woman with so many issues and deficiencies, it's somewhat apparent he wants to be seen as the guy who does the right thing. BS knows this, IMO. She didn't scream from the mountaintops that her H was having an A, protecting herself and her family. But she still wants there to be consequences for him, or at least his image.

[minimariah]

MM seems to the one stalling that for two years he has been keeping two women stuck in limbo, two women who are pitted against each other and the dysfunctional drama his and op's kids are going through.

 

i think this is the reason -

 

It sounds like he doesn't want to come off as the bad guy. He's trying to be reasonable, whether out of guilt or in the best interests of his kids.

 

i think he is trying to make it easy on the BS and NOT press her & the BS is stalling as the result.