Best way to handle still angry BS?

[Got it]

Based on what, though? In essence, all the BS is doing is getting angry at times - which daisy admits she has a right to be - with the SO. Telling the kids she thinks vacations should be about family isn't necessarily manipulative, IMO. Especially when, per daisy, she didn't really raise a stink about them being there with her. I think that would be a hard sell here.

 

Based on other things the OP has said, negative comments to the kids is parental alienation. I am looking at the big picture not the "vacation" incident.

 

And a father's rights attorney would be able to advise him the best. My husband, and I think a number of parents, will allow far more bad behavior to "keep the peace" than is advice and do not seek advisement until things are extremely bad. This is potentially cutting to the chase and understanding his rights and what is reasonable to expect and what is unreasonable.

 

Professional guidance is always advisable.

[daisygirl19]

For all we know, it may have been something she said to the kids before. Heck, my W and I say similar things about vacation. It's pretty tame, IMO. And even if it was manipulative on her part: the SO had his xAP/GF join them on vacation. You think she's going to take being accused of manipulation for saying something like that lying down? Legally, at least?

 

Yes, she has said this to the kids before. A huge issue in their marriage was family. She believes very strongly in "family time". Family time being no one other than the 4 of them, holed up at home with no outside interference, including extended family. In this instance, yes, I think it was directed at me, but I doubt the kids took it that way - clearly they've heard it their entire lives.

 

Since they separated, the kids have spent more time with his family than ever before and they talk about how much they like it and ask why they never got to do it before. They are kids. They complain about "family time" often. It's boring to them. Don't get me wrong, I agree that family time is important, but she takes it to an extreme, IMO. She has gone so far as to tell the kids that "the mom's family is more important than the dad's". She didn't just preach this, she practiced it. She insisted that SO call her parents "mom" and "dad" after they married. To this day, she still calls his mom Mrs. X, because she is not her mom and she thinks it would be disrespectful to her own mother if she did.

[Got it]

And he played right into that by ending up with the person she thought was a threat to her M. It definitely sounds like she has her issues. I think over time he may have enabled her a bit, too. But you have to admit: she was kind of right on this one.

 

Um, nope, she isn't. At this point she doesn't have a say.

 

And any enabling he was doing is well ended now which is why the tantrums ramped up. It's to get back to status quo and the playing field has changed.

[cocorico]

I definitely agree. In my situation there was a lot of control issues. She had had an affair but decided not to leave, she had called a lot of shots and I think, based on things both she and he have said, I believe thought herself to be the more "desirable" individual in their partnership. So his affair, and him leaving, was such a blindside and took the control away. So there was a lot of railing against this and attempts to assert control where ever possible.

 

Yes, this is definitely the case with my H's xW as well. It's probably not that uncommon in these situations.

 

Which is why I think DG and her SO need to set firm boundaries with the S2BXW.

 

Perhaps, eventually, something else will happen in her life to give her meaning, so that she'll have less need to cling to all the drama.

[Got it]

For all we know, it may have been something she said to the kids before. Heck, my W and I say similar things about vacation. It's pretty tame, IMO. And even if it was manipulative on her part: the SO had his xAP/GF join them on vacation. You think she's going to take being accused of manipulation for saying something like that lying down? Legally, at least?

 

If they are legally separated/divorced she has no say on his vacations with his kids. The family has changed and so her desires on how family vacations are set up are based on her vacations with the kids.

[Sub]

If they are legally separated/divorced she has no say on his vacations with his kids. The family has changed and so her desires on how family vacations are set up are based on her vacations with the kids.

 

She expressed an opinion to her son about it. We can debate whether or not it was manipulative for her to say that. But she didn't try to sabotage the vacation or impose her will on how it took place. It was "issue-free".

[daisygirl19]

If they are legally separated/divorced she has no say on his vacations with his kids. The family has changed and so her desires on how family vacations are set up are based on her vacations with the kids.

 

She is starting to realize this.

[anika99]

Yes, she has said this to the kids before. A huge issue in their marriage was family. She believes very strongly in "family time". Family time being no one other than the 4 of them, holed up at home with no outside interference, including extended family. In this instance, yes, I think it was directed at me, but I doubt the kids took it that way - clearly they've heard it their entire lives.

 

Since they separated, the kids have spent more time with his family than ever before and they talk about how much they like it and ask why they never got to do it before. They are kids. They complain about "family time" often. It's boring to them. Don't get me wrong, I agree that family time is important, but she takes it to an extreme, IMO. She has gone so far as to tell the kids that "the mom's family is more important than the dad's". She didn't just preach this, she practiced it. She insisted that SO call her parents "mom" and "dad" after they married. To this day, she still calls his mom Mrs. X, because she is not her mom and she thinks it would be disrespectful to her own mother if she did.

 

I think you need to step back from picking apart the BW's life and marriage this way. Telling us what she said, what she thought, and what she felt while she was in her marriage. You have no real intimate knowledge of this. You think you do, based on the words of the MM and your observations, but until the BW comes to and tells you the whole story from her side, bares her soul to you and tells you alls these minute details of her life and marriage, you really know nothing about what she thinks, feels and acts. Not saying anyone's lying, just pointing out that there is always more to the story and always another side.

 

When a marriage breaks up, it's highly unlikely that all the fault lies with just one spouse while the other one is blameless. There's no point in hashing over the details of the BW's marriage and everything she did, said and felt other than to disparage and mock her. You weren't married to her, you don't know her and it's not your problem. Focus on the present and what is happening in the here and now. I say let your MM handle the situation and have him stop telling you everything she says. Divorce is painful and from what I've seen on this thread the BW is not really causing that much trouble in your life. I've read stories of much more vengeful soon to be exwives. I think you would be much less affected by the BW if you just told the MM to handle things himself and leave you out of it.

[daisygirl19]

I think you need to step back from picking apart the BW's life and marriage this way. Telling us what she said, what she thought, and what she felt while she was in her marriage. You have no real intimate knowledge of this. You think you do, based on the words of the MM and your observations, but until the BW comes to and tells you the whole story from her side, bares her soul to you and tells you alls these minute details of her life and marriage, you really know nothing about what she thinks, feels and acts. Not saying anyone's lying, just pointing out that there is always more to the story and always another side.

 

When a marriage breaks up, it's highly unlikely that all the fault lies with just one spouse while the other one is blameless. There's no point in hashing over the details of the BW's marriage and everything she did, said and felt other than to disparage and mock her. You weren't married to her, you don't know her and it's not your problem. Focus on the present and what is happening in the here and now. I say let your MM handle the situation and have him stop telling you everything she says. Divorce is painful and from what I've seen on this thread the BW is not really causing that much trouble in your life. I've read stories of much more vengeful soon to be exwives. I think you would be much less affected by the BW if you just told the MM to handle things himself and leave you out of it.

 

My intention is not to pick her apart. I don't see where I have mocked her or disparaged her in any way. I was only citing examples to explain my thinking. Much of my knowledge of their relationship, her thoughts, her feelings are a direct result of conversations and interactions I have had with her directly. Certainly some of it has come from him, but much has come from her. I DO know her. I have known her longer than him.

[Sub]

I think it's more about what's being said now. You feel guilty, understand why she's angry, etc. Just my opinion, but I don't think knowing how many "crazy texts" she sends to him, every word that's being said in ranting phone calls and all that is helping you. It's just adding to the weight.

[daisygirl19]

I think it's more about what's being said now. You feel guilty, understand why she's angry, etc. Just my opinion, but I don't think knowing how many "crazy texts" she sends to him, every word that's being said in ranting phone calls and all that is helping you. It's just adding to the weight.

 

I see your point, but it is pretty hard to ignore a phone blowing up like that, even when silenced, when I'm a foot away from it.

[Got it]

She expressed an opinion to her son about it. We can debate whether or not it was manipulative for her to say that. But she didn't try to sabotage the vacation or impose her will on how it took place. It was "issue-free".

 

And her opinion on it, especially towards her son, is not warranted or necessary.

 

It doesn't need to be sabotaged to be an issue and we can debate "issue free". Obviously her son got upset/saddened by her comment per his comment to his father and OP. I think that is an issue but that must be subjective.

 

Sorry but after separated/divorced you keep your mouth shut about your opinion about the other parent unless it is a danger. You wish the kids well, ask them if they had fun, and you leave everything else alone.

[amomwhoknows]

I think it's more about what's being said now. You feel guilty, understand why she's angry, etc. Just my opinion, but I don't think knowing how many "crazy texts" she sends to him, every word that's being said in ranting phone calls and all that is helping you. It's just adding to the weight.

 

The "weight" is likely to be there for a while. The BS isn't likely to simmer down anytime soon. And I think, while finalizing the divorce will help. the differences in the lifestyles at the two houses will only exasperate the BS's frustrations.

 

The BS isn't only losing her husband but she is losing the fun parent, the one who made things fun for the kids. And I am guessing that she knows this. And I asked Daisy previously if she thought there was chance that part of what was driving his wife's behavior was the fact that the kids might start wanting to live with him all the time and Daisy said no. But if I was his wife, and I understood that I was an introvert and saw the life he was living with the kids, I would be worried. Add in the mix of Daisy's kids and I think I am right.

 

I wonder if he realizes that. Does he protect their relationship with their mom, when they complain about things at her house?

[daisygirl19]

The "weight" is likely to be there for a while. The BS isn't likely to simmer down anytime soon. And I think, while finalizing the divorce will help. the differences in the lifestyles at the two houses will only exasperate the BS's frustrations.

 

The BS isn't only losing her husband but she is losing the fun parent, the one who made things fun for the kids. And I am guessing that she knows this. And I asked Daisy previously if she thought there was chance that part of what was driving his wife's behavior was the fact that the kids might start wanting to live with him all the time and Daisy said no. But if I was his wife, and I understood that I was an introvert and saw the life he was living with the kids, I would be worried. Add in the mix of Daisy's kids and I think I am right.

 

I wonder if he realizes that. Does he protect their relationship with their mom, when they complain about things at her house?

 

Really good point. Yes, he defends her and does A LOT to protect her relationship with the kids. They have a great relationship with her and love both parents equally. I think the biggest issue for the kids is that they ask for more time with him at his house and she refuses to allow it. I think she sees it as a competition sometimes and I know she feels left out when he is with the kids.

[minimariah]

And I am guessing that she knows this. And I asked Daisy previously if she thought there was chance that part of what was driving his wife's behavior was the fact that the kids might start wanting to live with him all the time and Daisy said no. But if I was his wife, and I understood that I was an introvert and saw the life he was living with the kids, I would be worried. Add in the mix of Daisy's kids and I think I am right.

 

this might happen - especially because with the OP & her partner, they will again have the "full" family... as opposed to being with just their mum.

 

sometimes that happens, the kid go with the partner who 1st "creates" a new family in a way to cope with losing their own. it's kind of a full house syndrome.

 

and it doesn't have to be related with their mum not being fun - their mum is, naturally, not the happiest... the father and the OP are. that also plays a role.

 

the wife is probably naturally scared of losing the kids and being replaced truly by the OP - that fear is also one of the reasons for her acting out.

[daisygirl19]

this might happen - especially because with the OP & her partner, they will again have the "full" family... as opposed to being with just their mum.

 

sometimes that happens, the kid go with the partner who 1st "creates" a new family in a way to cope with losing their own. it's kind of a full house syndrome.

 

and it doesn't have to be related with their mum not being fun - their mum is, naturally, not the happiest... the father and the OP are. that also plays a role.

 

the wife is probably naturally scared of losing the kids and being replaced truly by the OP - that fear is also one of the reasons for her acting out.

 

Fair point. While I know, and SO knows, that will NEVER happen, and we would never encourage it or allow it to happen, I can see how this could be a fear of hers.

[amomwhoknows]

Really good point. Yes, he defends her and does A LOT to protect her relationship with the kids. They have a great relationship with her and love both parents equally. I think the biggest issue for the kids is that they ask for more time with him at his house and she refuses to allow it. I think she sees it as a competition sometimes and I know she feels left out when he is with the kids.

 

When my neighbor first moved in with her affair partner, remember same neighborhood, he would come home from work to find his kids at the house when it wasn't his day. (Remember these were older tweens/teens). He would send them home.

 

The schedule was the schedule became his mantra. He knew that his kids would like to hang at his house, first less supervision and second her kids were there too. He made it clear as daylight to his boys that the schedule was the schedule. Over time, they became more flexible, but always with an eye to equal. So if he was suppose to have dinner with them but she had something they wanted to do with her, he would simply trade nights. Everyone slept where the schedule said they were to sleep -- even if they didn't want to.

 

By being so consistent, he helped alleviate some of his now ex wife's fears. Because insta-family was a big threat. Your kids will need to understand that too. They can't ask little Jenny to sleep over when it isn't their dad's night. No begging little Johnny to come play a game when it is time for him to leave. Does this make sense?

 

Your guy needs to do the same. Though the kids are younger, and the neighborhood isn't the same, the mantra needs to be the schedule is the schedule, its not my night (or its mom's night) etc. After a while the kids will get it.

 

I think she feels left out because her personality inhibits her from being the planner, the instigator of fun etc. This may change when the break is clean and she truly feels on her own. As her kids get older, they may be better able to communicate with her about their needs too.

 

Did she take them on vacation this summer?

Edited September 4, 2015 by amomwhoknows

[truncated]

This is a great point, thank you. She definitely called all of the shots. They lived very separate lives, which she always seemed quite happy with - as long as he was coming home at the end of the day. She didn't want him in her bed, but she wanted the appearances of a perfect family kept up. She is not the most social person. She is quite shy and sheltered, but it comes across as self righteous and snobby - which I don't think she is. It's just the vibe she gives off. But, because of this, and because she doesn't handle herself well in social situations, she doesn't make or keep friends easily. She is the ultimate victim - everything is an attack on her personally, everyone is out to get her. She is almost paranoid about it. I know that it weighed SO down during the course of their marriage. His family as well. Still, no matter what problems they had in their marriage, she was completely blindsided, and he has to assume some of the blame. He basically checked out long ago and gave in to every one of her wants and demands. No he has made a decision, and stuck with it, that she doesn't like, she simply doesn't know how to handle it.

 

You know, you seem to know an awful lot about her, and are quite condescending to her ( even patronizing) in your descriptions of her.

 

I don't know what the source of this is, but it's definitely there.

 

You also seem to forget that the children ( and their family, whether they are together or not) is just that. Their family. You have zero right to make any comment or criticism of it.

[truncated]

My intention is not to pick her apart. I don't see where I have mocked her or disparaged her in any way. I was only citing examples to explain my thinking. Much of my knowledge of their relationship, her thoughts, her feelings are a direct result of conversations and interactions I have had with her directly. Certainly some of it has come from him, but much has come from her. I DO know her. I have known her longer than him.

 

Sounds like that is the source of a lot of the problems.

 

She trusted you, and in her eyes, she likely feels like you stabbed her in the back.

 

If I were to look at the situation from her point of view, I can understand why she has an issue with you being around her kids, and to be quite frank, why do you even need to be around them at all? You are not married to her ex, you are not a step parent. you could easily take a few steps back and allow the dust to settle, yet you have chosen not to.

 

Why is it so important that your relationship with her ex be front and center? Why was is so important that you attend part of the vacation with them? Why did those few days matter so much?

 

I know you won;t like hearing this, but I think part of you feels like you are staking your territory, and that is your priority.

[anika99]

My intention is not to pick her apart. I don't see where I have mocked her or disparaged her in any way. I was only citing examples to explain my thinking. Much of my knowledge of their relationship, her thoughts, her feelings are a direct result of conversations and interactions I have had with her directly. Certainly some of it has come from him, but much has come from her. I DO know her. I have known her longer than him.

 

 

I say mocked and disparaged because everything you post about her and her marriage is so one sided and so one dimensional. You don't present her as a whole person, a person with feelings and qualities and worth. Instead you draw a caricature of her where her flaws are exaggerated to ridiculous proportions while everything good about her gets completely ignored, which has the affect of making her look like a foolish cartoon rather than a real human being with many layers.

 

 

The only way you could know the exact truth of their marriage would be if you could be her, in her marriage. Even when good friends share details of their married life with me, I know I'm still an outsider to their marriage and I can't claim to know the true details.

[gettingstronger]

Reading how well you knew her and the flaws in her marriage, I do wonder who the manipulator is here. Surely she thinks that as well and it fuels her fears. I mean you befriended her and ended up with her husband. In the back of her mind maybe she feels like you want all of it, including her children.

[georgia girl]

I usually wouldn't reply to one of these threads, but it hit so close to home I had to. One of my husband's best friends is divorced and remarried. His second wife did not come before his first wife. They began dating after he had been legally separated for nearly a year (the divorce dragging on was because his first wife didn't want it) and he had left simply because he wanted out.

 

No one is perfect and I'm sure my husband's friend wasn't a perfect spouse. However, I do know that there were MANY issues with his first wife all along that drove him away. She was very controlling and restrictive. I never really "got to know" him until after they split. When they were married, she wouldn't allow him to attend any group functions and if he did, he had to stay and go within an hour while constantly being bombarded with his phone. The paranoia was out of control and I was appalled when I first saw it and then watched it continue. After they split and we would have get-togethers, I got to know my husband's friend and to a person, folks would comment on how this was "the real XXX" and how they hadn't seen him in years.

 

So, I do think that even being an outsider one can "know" in some small way the predecessor. I don't think we can simply dismiss it as a divorcing spouse's negativity or the new partner's need to stake her own territory (although an element of each may certainly be involved).

 

But, to my point, I've also seen how a certain personality can make all the wrong choices in divorcing that will alienate people and be personally harmful to herself. In my friend's case, his ex-wife still does "drive-bys" of the new couple's house, particularly when she doesn't have the kids. She makes comments about "being traded in for a younger model" to the kids - she was the same age as her ex-husband; the new wife is four years younger but admittedly looks 10 years younger. She often speaks of her ex-husband "abandoning his family."

 

On the flip side, while they will discuss very privately with us what's going on, neither partner will ever say a bad word in front of his children nor his family about the ex-wife.

 

What has happened? Without getting into their private details, the kids have had enough. It's so tragic that I want to shake the ex-wife and tell her that she's harming herself and her children. It's been three years since the split and a year since the new marriage. She has not moved on at all and yet the new couple and the children have. In the end, her actions are driving her to be lonely and angry. (And she's NOT a bad person. She's actually quite funny, bright and compassionate. She really just never learned how to be a good partner or control her impulse to control.)

 

So, I post to the original poster. Your relationship may not have "started the right way," but you're honest and dealing with that fallout. But please don't take on her weaknesses. That's not yours to own. Instead, just keep doing what you're doing. Live well. Be a stable, soft and calm environment for yourself, your partner and your combined children. She'll ultimately have to make the choice for herself to let go and start living in a more healthy way. But don't react to what she does. It pulls you out of you and you'll only regret it. Live well.

[elaine567]

When they were married, she wouldn't allow him to attend any group functions and if he did, he had to stay and go within an hour while constantly being bombarded with his phone. The paranoia was out of control and I was appalled when I first saw it and then watched it continue. After they split and we would have get-togethers, I got to know my husband's friend and to a person, folks would comment on how this was "the real XXX" and how they hadn't seen him in years.

 

I think it is very easy to make judgements over a first wife but have you considered that the wife's "paranoia" was due to a cheating event on his part at some point, which she has never really got over. Such events can be kept secret, as the BS doesn't want any to know and the WS is glad no-one knows. It may be the real reason for the split.

Whilst everyone one else has moved on, she is now left with the mind movies, the triggering, the betrayal and the being unable to trust anyone.

Just a thought.

[Got it]

I think it is ridiculous to think that one can't have enough reasonable information on another relationship/past relationship to speak on it. I have communicated enough about my past marriage with my husband he could surmise an educated opinion. Sure, it is through me, but nothing was communicated that wasn't a fair assessment and there was no unfair maligning of my ex. There was enough communicated in my relationship with my ex that I had a good assessment of his thinking or doing and have relayed those in my opinion/assessment.

 

Having been with my husband for almost a decade, including the affair, I think I can speak about his ex and their marriage, to some degree, without feeling I am just speaking out of my backside. He has been more than forthcoming with his faults and mistakes and issues he needed to own to balance his rendition. Does that mean I all the nuances? Nope. But does that mean I know nothing? No again.

 

Unless the OP's boyfriend is only coloring his ex as the "bad guy" which would be a major red flag if I heard that, sorry to break it but maybe she wasn't peachy keen. Doesn't make her the devil reincarnate but doesn't make her Mother Theresa either.

 

And the OP can definitely surmise an opinion, based on current events, based on her own interaction.

 

I really don't think people are really understanding the level of craziness that is "in your face" in these types of events and YES even the previous OW can actually have a legitimate less than positive opinion based on said events.

 

OP - I think unfortunately the fact you two started as an affair has really colored some people's opinions. I think if you just posted solely on your relationship and the current events, leaving out the affair, advice would be radically different. But there is definitely a belief that there is no time stamp or limitations to what the BS should be granted allowed to do/feel/express.

 

Luckily most professionals don't agree.

 

OP - your issue is really more, I think at this point, about dealing with a separated/divorced man and his kids and the issues tied to that. It is far les about the affair and would suggest seeking advice in that view point.

 

Just my two cent.

[Got it]

I think it is very easy to make judgements over a first wife but have you considered that the wife's "paranoia" was due to a cheating event on his part at some point, which she has never really got over. Such events can be kept secret, as the BS doesn't want any to know and the WS is glad no-one knows. It may be the real reason for the split.

Whilst everyone one else has moved on, she is now left with the mind movies, the triggering, the betrayal and the being unable to trust anyone.

Just a thought.

 

Then she should seek therapy if that is the case which right now is completely speculation and fantasy as nothing the OP indicated.

 

But if it was, he is already remarried. How long does she "own the right" to allow the past to continue to impact her life let alone everyone else. And how long is everyone expected to accommodate it?